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Tags homeopathy , society of homeopaths

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Old 25th October 2007, 11:08 AM   #41
JJM
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Apparently the blogosphere won:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...elief.php#more
Quote:
Due to the unpleasantness and surprisingly vitriolic nature of the postings on the Quackometer website and others, The Society has taken a conscious decision not to respond to these bloggers.

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Old 25th October 2007, 11:12 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
Part three of my critique is now up
http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...et-part-three/
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Old 25th October 2007, 08:38 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Randi View Post
I am studying the SoH situation, and I believe I will post the entire discussion that they had taken down, "A response to Abigail Marshall and the Davis Dyslexia Association/ International Society of Homeopaths make themselves look silly/The Society of Homeopaths silence criticism through cowardly legal means."

If they're so litigious, let them sue the JREF. We can handle it.

Yeeha. Got to the post before this in my reading and was sadly wondering at the fools in our world, now I am happy again.

Sad because i was having an argument with a young lass who uses homeopathy and really believes in it. As far as she is concerned, its all big pharmas complaining about losing business. She shut up when I asked her if she thought big pharmas would knock back this ideal (and cheap) way of making money (a bottle of water) if they didn't have to?

Back to reading.....
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Old 26th October 2007, 07:46 AM   #44
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part four in my depressing series is now up
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Old 26th October 2007, 08:35 AM   #45
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Gimpy's blog, part four: http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...let-part-four/
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Old 27th October 2007, 09:45 AM   #46
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This is also worth a read:

Quote:
Homeopath Cures Autism - A Black Hole of Woo with Case Notes

-snip-

I have acquired the Case Notes of a case of Autism that John Melnychuk, RSHom (NA) claims to cure. These Case Notes were anonymised by John Melnychuk and were presented at a conference as well as being available on the web, I am assuming that all necessary permissions were sought by John Melnychuk, the organisers of the conference and the owner of the website. They make for distressing reading…

Read on:

http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...th-case-notes/
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Old 27th October 2007, 02:25 PM   #47
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From SoH's response to Ben Goldacre (and also posted at Bad Science);

http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-...-releases.aspx

“We contacted the programme makers directly to ask for their evidence that any Society members had given dangerous or misleading advice to members of the public. They were unable to provide a single example. The Society’s professional conduct procedures cannot be invoked without a specific complaint, an alleged offender or any evidence.”

Why has no complaint been laid? I thought it was fairly clear from the programme that SoH members had given advice that breached their own codes.
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Old 27th October 2007, 02:28 PM   #48
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Is this the get-out?

http://badhomeopath.com/?p=20

"All of the pharmacies visited, upon a follow up call from Newsnight stated that the advice given was a "mistake" and they should be referring people to their GP's."
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"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath.
"Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park)
Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 27th October 2007, 02:34 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
From SoH's response to Ben Goldacre (and also posted at Bad Science);

http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-...-releases.aspx

“We contacted the programme makers directly to ask for their evidence that any Society members had given dangerous or misleading advice to members of the public. They were unable to provide a single example. The Society’s professional conduct procedures cannot be invoked without a specific complaint, an alleged offender or any evidence.”

Why has no complaint been laid? I thought it was fairly clear from the programme that SoH members had given advice that breached their own codes.

Presumably the homoeopths that Newsnight had on film were not members of the SoH.
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Old 27th October 2007, 03:02 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Presumably the homoeopths that Newsnight had on film were not members of the SoH.

It certainly looks like that might be the reason. Here’s the link to the Newsnight segment, including the secret filming:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5178122.stm

You can find the programme transcripts here:
http://www.badscience.net/?p=291#more-291

And here’s the video clip of Melanie Oxley defending the SoH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UJ_qGZ24k
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Old 27th October 2007, 03:12 PM   #51
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It's only a shame that they don't sue Randi - the legal fun would never end.
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Old 27th October 2007, 03:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Blue Wode View Post
It certainly looks like that might be the reason. Here’s the link to the Newsnight segment, including the secret filming:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5178122.stm

You can find the programme transcripts here:
http://www.badscience.net/?p=291#more-291

And here’s the video clip of Melanie Oxley defending the SoH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UJ_qGZ24k
Yeah, but the GMC or my beloved RCVS would not require video footage in order to instigate an complaints procedure. All it requires is a complainant and a complaint! The point of the procedure is to fairly investigate the complaint.
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Old 27th October 2007, 03:57 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
Is this the get-out?

http://badhomeopath.com/?p=20

"All of the pharmacies visited, upon a follow up call from Newsnight stated that the advice given was a "mistake" and they should be referring people to their GP's."
Having thought about this a bit further, this is not a legitimate get-out. In the real world, such an egregious "mistake" in a medical context is called negligence and is quite capable of forming the basis for a finding of "disgraceful conduct in a professional respect".

See this though;

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...-glass_20.html

Their procedures are a sick joke.
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"Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park)
Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 27th October 2007, 04:07 PM   #54
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""The good thing about the Internet is that no matter how many repressed cretins with outmoded morals and religious fundamentalist idiots hate what you have to say, they cannot burn a website."

Though the SoH have tried, and seem to have blown off their own eyebrows in the process.
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"Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park)
Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent.
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Old 30th October 2007, 12:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Badly Shaved Monkey View Post
Why has no complaint been laid? I thought it was fairly clear from the programme that SoH members had given advice that breached their own codes.

A revealing look at the potential reasons for the SoH's failure to formally investigate the issue:
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...h-matters.html


Could the SoH be hiding behind a 'communications breakdown'?
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Old 30th October 2007, 07:23 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Blue Wode View Post
A revealing look at the potential reasons for the SoH's failure to formally investigate the issue:
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...h-matters.html


Could the SoH be hiding behind a 'communications breakdown'?
Wow! It really is worse than I thought. I'd had it implied to me that they had been given the relevant names and so, it seems, they were. Quite extraordinary.
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Old 30th October 2007, 10:48 AM   #57
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Oh, I think this is now quite clearly deliberate, and they know very well what they're doing. It's getting this through to the public and the politicians that's the hard bit.

Rolfe.
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Last edited by Rolfe; 30th October 2007 at 10:55 AM. Reason: To delete redundant request
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Old 31st October 2007, 12:40 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Oh, I think this is now quite clearly deliberate, and they know very well what they're doing.

But their defiance continues. Here’s the latest SoH Press Statement:

Quote:
Letter sent to the Editor
The Observer

On 31st October

Dear Sir,

In response to Nick Cohen’s opinion piece “the cranks who swear by citronella oil” (Observer, October 28), The Society of Homeopaths, Europe’s largest body of professional homeopaths, would like to point out that its symposium on HIV/AIDS is just that – a discussion forum for the exploration and critical appraisal of the use of homeopathy.

Putting aside the offensive overtones of Mr Cohen’s piece, it should be noted that the symposium will be looking at complementary methods and approaches used by experienced homeopaths in helping with the symptoms of HIV/AIDS.

It should also be pointed out that the 2006 BBC Newsnight programme on malaria referred to by Mr Cohen was taken very seriously by The Society of Homeopaths. As we have stated previously, we contacted the programme makers directly to ask for their evidence that any Society members had given dangerous or misleading advice to members of the public. They were unable to provide a single example. Nevertheless, as a further precaution, The Society reissued its guidelines on advice for the prevention of malaria and sent a copy to every member within a day of the programme being aired.

A Mintel report earlier this year stated that 49 per cent of British women and 28 per cent of men have used complementary medication and would use it again. A further 27 per cent of adults would consider using it in the future. The report also stated that the sale of homeopathic remedies had increased by 24 per cent since 2002. For Mr Cohen to dismiss all of these people as feeble-minded fools seems somewhat patronising to say the least.

While it is entirely correct to say that the mechanism of action of homeopathic medicines has yet to be proven scientifically, the evidence remains that they work. There are many things that science cannot yet explain. But let’s not dismiss the experience of the millions of people who benefit from homeopathy.

Paula Ross
Chief Executive


http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-...-releases.aspx

For a first class critique of Ms Ross's rebuttal see here:
http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...burning-pants/


(Mintel report on CAM: http://www.mintel.com/press_release.php?id=288796 )
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Old 1st November 2007, 02:19 AM   #59
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Thanks for the plug. It's increasingly clear the SoH have a problem with honesty. It's also clear they are endorsing dangerous fools. I have been looking at statements made by some of their Fellows on AIDS and malaria. Very scary indeed. Blog posts to come....

Oh and if anyone has the a spare £5k or a copy of the full Mintel report then I would love to see it. Alternative health is a huge business.
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Old 1st November 2007, 04:22 AM   #60
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Quote:
A Mintel report earlier this year stated that 49 per cent of British women and 28 per cent of men have used complementary medication and would use it again.

Oh yeah. I was taken to a homoeopath by my mother, when I was 14. She cottoned on to the fact that it was fakery quicker than I did. But then, many years later, a surgeon who operated on me told me to take arnica pre and post-op. I did what I was told. OK, I was an idiot. Then some years after that, I took up a homoeopath's challenge to do a self-proving of 30C Belladonna. Didn't have any discernible effect.

So, I've "used" homoeopathy, so I'm in that category. Would I use it again? I doubt it, but I might be prepared to try the proving game again, so maybe I'm entirely in the category. And you know what I think of homoeopathy. That I should be classed as supporting this nonsense by the way the survey is constructed, is quite offensive.

Hey, it doesn't just say "homoeopathy", it says "complementary medicine". I sometimes use valerian tablets as a sleep aid. I have no huge confidence that they work, but hey, they're harmless at that sort of dose, and the ritual of pill-taking can have a placebo effect in a sleepless night anyway. Yes, I'd do that again.

So, not just enlisting people who had homoeopathy forced on them as children in their supprt, they are also roping in all those who use more rational forms of alternative medicine.

Great logic, Paula.

Rolfe.
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Old 1st November 2007, 06:00 AM   #61
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You give the customer what they want. The customer doesn't want to be told to go to their GP.
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Old 2nd November 2007, 11:30 AM   #62
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Gimpy,
Have you let the Observer know about all of this?
Maybe Paula Ross's intervention will backfire on her.
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Old 4th November 2007, 01:34 AM   #63
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Paula Ross is not going to be pleased. Today’s Observer has published a severely edited version of her SoH press statement:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk:80/le...204930,00.html

Meanwhile, more from Gimpy…

Ralf Jeutter, a director of the Society of Homeopaths, ignores Code of Ethics, treats nasty diseases with magic potions
http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...magic-potions/

Snippet –
Quote:
Ralf claims that homeoprophylaxis can prevent, Cholera, Hepatitis, Malaria, Tetanus, Typhoid and Yellow Fever and without the side effects of conventional vaccines. This is in breach of the following parts of section 48 of the Code of Ethics and section 72.
48 Advertising shall not contain claims of superiority.
No advertising may be used which expressly or implicitly claims to cure named diseases.
Advertising shall not be false, fraudulent, misleading, deceptive, extravagant or sensational.

72 To avoid making claims (whether explicit or implied; orally or in writing) implying cure of any named disease.
Ralf also doesn’t mention non-homeopathic anti-malarial drugs despite the SoH insisting that its members have an obligation to do so. Ralf has no excuse for not doing so as he is on the committee that oversees such advice.

Looks like Gimpy's formal complaint is going to be a cracker.
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Old 4th November 2007, 02:32 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Blue Wode View Post
Paula Ross is not going to be pleased. Today’s Observer has published a severely edited version of her SoH press statement:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk:80/le...204930,00.html

She should consider herself lucky. The Guardian didn't bother printing Andy Kirk's letter about the Goldacre column at all.

Someone's managed to sneak a comparison to Galileo in there ("some quack drop[ping] birdshot and cannonballs off the Leaning Tower"). That's 40 points.

ETA: I see that he also thinks that Galileo proved that the heavier something is, the slower it falls ("exactly the opposite"), but maybe that just the way his letter has been edited.
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Old 4th November 2007, 03:39 AM   #65
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Gimpy's blog on the letters.
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Old 30th November 2007, 09:59 AM   #66
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On the eve of its symposium in London on homeopathy and AIDS, the Society of Homeopaths has been at it again:

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...deceiving.html
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Old 22nd January 2008, 11:41 AM   #67
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quackometer.net is now being threatened by "Professor" Joseph Chikelue Obi: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006...-and-kate.html (grab it quickly).
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Old 22nd January 2008, 12:14 PM   #68
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More on that development here:
http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.co...netcetera.html

(Don’t forget to take a look at its January 2008 archives.)

Do you know if there's anything we can do to help?
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Old 22nd January 2008, 12:43 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Blue Wode View Post
More on that development here:
http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.co...netcetera.html

(Don’t forget to take a look at its January 2008 archives.)

Do you know if there's anything we can do to help?
Here's the other post about Mr. Obi: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006...f-pompous.html

What LCN really needs is a different webhost and the time to move his site across.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 12:55 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Blue Wode View Post
More on that development here:
http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.co...netcetera.html

(Don’t forget to take a look at its January 2008 archives.)

Do you know if there's anything we can do to help?
How serious is this likely to be?

Linda
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Old 22nd January 2008, 01:44 PM   #71
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Also see what happens when you search google.ie for Joseph Chikelue Obi: you get a note that "In response to a legal request submitted to Google, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page." and a link to chillingeffects.org. See also http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.co...eter-blog.html

LCN isn't so worried about Mr. Obi's threats, but his web hosts netcetera are, as we saw when they caved in to the SoH in a "recent Landmark Legal Success" which saw the anti-SoH posting reposted hundreds of time across the blogosphere. Perhaps this is just a pathetic bid for attention from Mr. Obi: try to sue quackometer, get your name in all the blogs. I bet he isn't going after this: http://www.independent.ie/national-n...st-266728.html

Quote:
In January 2003, he was suspended by for [sic.] serious professional misconduct at South Tyneside District Hospital. Among the allegations made were that he failed to attend to patients, wrote strange notes about colleagues and at one point gave a dating agency phone number to a psychiatric patient. He was also involved in a police probe into his dealings with a 58-year-old widow who he promised to cure of a 20-year illness... The doctor then busied himself creating a bizarre website where he claims he is the victim of a smear campaign by "shameless media elements" and the British police.
... or this: http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...name_page.html

He's also been involved in cyber squatting.

I don't know which of these is supposed to be the bizarre one:
http://www.royalcam.org/
http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.com/
http://abolishthegmc.blogspot.com/
http://www.professorjosephchikelueobi.com/
http://www.obi.me.uk/
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Old 22nd January 2008, 02:14 PM   #72
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I wonder if it's inherent in being a self-aggrandising nutter, but not-a-real-professor Obi writes like not-a-real-bishop Manchester.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 02:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by shpalman View Post
Also see what happens when you search google.ie for Joseph Chikelue Obi: you get a note that "In response to a legal request submitted to Google, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page." and a link to chillingeffects.org.
Thankfully it hasn't affected .com or .co.uk, both of which have the quackometer at the top (of course this may just conceivably be related to Kate Moss).
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Old 22nd January 2008, 04:45 PM   #74
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Here's another newspaper story about Joseph Chikelue Obi.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 04:47 PM   #75
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And another story about Joseph Chikelue Obi.
Quote:
Dr Joseph Chikelue Obi is facing an inquiry by the General Medical Council into fears that he is a danger to patients.

But the 33-year-old claims he is the victim of a witch-hunt and has posted a raft of counter-allegations on a website ahead of tomorrow's hearing.

There is a charge of £31 per minute to listen to each recording, the shortest of which is around eight minutes long.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 04:59 PM   #76
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Yes, my sin cojones web hosts have received more threats.

Go to the quackometer site for more details.

My only choice is to go to a new host with more mettle. I have an offer but it involves a big port of loads of asp vbscript to something more 'open' </technical>

Enjoy the details of the 'lawyers' letter.
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Old 22nd January 2008, 05:41 PM   #77
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Wow!
Anything we can do???



Re "Professor" Obi - I see his offences included
Quote:
in Pontefract he is said to have described a colleague as a “stupid cow”, spent an excessive time on a computer, and called a surgeon a liar.
When I am before the GMC for similar offences, please say a prayer for me.......
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Old 23rd January 2008, 12:02 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by lecanardnoir View Post
Yes, my sin cojones web hosts have received more threats.

Go to the quackometer site for more details.

My only choice is to go to a new host with more mettle. I have an offer but it involves a big port of loads of asp vbscript to something more 'open' </technical>

Enjoy the details of the 'lawyers' letter.

Here are your links:

More threats to the Quackometer…
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2008...ackometer.html


…which links to this blog:

Legal threats and extortion to suppress the truth
http://pvandck.wordpress.com/2008/01...ess-the-truth/

Quote:
Once again an abusive legal threat is the cause of truth and free speech, in the name of the Quackometer, being under fire. Last time it was a quackery marketing outfit known as the Society of Homeopaths who persuaded a lawyer (or as Ambrose Bierce so aptly defined it, “A liar with a roving profession”) to put pressure on a lilly livered apology for a Web Hosting company, Netcetera, to take down a page they didn’t like. Not because it was dishonest - in fact to the contrary, it was a deeply honest and serious criticism that the Socety of Homeopaths would rather no-one knew about.

Well, wouldn’t you know, it’s happened again. This man [photograph] Mr Joseph Chikelue Obi has decided to threaten the Quackometer’s web host with a lawsuit, and £1 million a day penalty, unless pages about him and his disgraceful activities are removed from their server. This is nothing short of attempted extortion. Of course, the web host who has no interest in their client’s interest nor the rights and wrongs of anything, has decided to cave in to a legally baseless threat.

So, in the interest of truthfulness and combating quacks and charlatan’s like the odious Mr Obi, there is no alternative but to re-publish the Quackometer’s “offending” pages here:

[Lengthy cut and paste work]

And here’s the lawyer’s letter (lifted from LCN’s post over at the Bad Science forums):
http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4176

Quote:
Dear Sirs,

Re Defamation

We advise Professor Dr Obi and the Royal College of Alternative Medicine. We are informed that you host the Quackometer`s website (copy evidence enclosed).

Our clients hereby give you formal notice that they are determined to sue you directly for the highly defamatory contents contained on the website should you fail to immediately shut down the website and delete all of the defamatory material relating to the Royal College of Alternative Medicine, Professor Dr Obi and our clients` lawfully registered Trademarks.

In case the defamation continues beyond 12 noon on Monday the 21st of January 2008, we are instructed to hold you fully liable to the tune of £1 Million (One Million Pounds) per day [hooks little finger to mouth], together with additional punitive damages relating to the many months during which the defamatory material had and has been globally accessible via your server.

Kindly note that Google has already blocked the highly defamatory material from appearing on its search engines in the Republic of Ireland, and is currently in the process of extending the ban to other countries.

Please find enclosed photocopies of the two RCAM Trademarks and a copy letter of Good Standing from the Company Registration Office in Ireland, as well as copies of these highly defamatory articles.

Please provide an undertaking that no further reference concerning Professor Dr Obi and/or the Royal College of Alternative Medicine is going to appear anywhere within the Quackometer`s website.


Looking forward to hearing from you.


Yours faithfully,


Tanja Suessenbach

LLB, LLM

Black Duck, please keep us informed of any new developments.
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Old 23rd January 2008, 01:38 AM   #79
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Obi is a rather clever buffoon, and nobody should ever take any notice of his threats. Frankly I don't believe there is anyone in his various organisations other than himself. Netcetera must be totally mad to cave in to this clown. I got him disciplined by one of my professional bodies, the Institute of Clinical Research, who made him take down some of his defamatory material. He is skulking in Eire because he'd be jailed in UK for fraud.
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Old 23rd January 2008, 02:02 AM   #80
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Orac has now blogged about Joseph Chikelue Obi.
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