|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#41 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,853
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#42 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,853
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#43 |
Muse
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 521
|
Yeeha. Got to the post before this in my reading and was sadly wondering at the fools in our world, now I am happy again. Sad because i was having an argument with a young lass who uses homeopathy and really believes in it. As far as she is concerned, its all big pharmas complaining about losing business. She shut up when I asked her if she thought big pharmas would knock back this ideal (and cheap) way of making money (a bottle of water) if they didn't have to? Back to reading..... ![]() |
__________________
. So the gods gave us Leprosy because.......? |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#44 |
New Blood
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8
|
part four in my depressing series is now up
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#45 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 203
|
Gimpy's blog, part four: http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...let-part-four/
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
This is also worth a read:
Quote:
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
|
From SoH's response to Ben Goldacre (and also posted at Bad Science);
http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-...-releases.aspx “We contacted the programme makers directly to ask for their evidence that any Society members had given dangerous or misleading advice to members of the public. They were unable to provide a single example. The Society’s professional conduct procedures cannot be invoked without a specific complaint, an alleged offender or any evidence.” Why has no complaint been laid? I thought it was fairly clear from the programme that SoH members had given advice that breached their own codes. |
__________________
"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
|
Is this the get-out?
http://badhomeopath.com/?p=20 "All of the pharmacies visited, upon a follow up call from Newsnight stated that the advice given was a "mistake" and they should be referring people to their GP's." |
__________________
"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#49 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 36,171
|
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#50 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
It certainly looks like that might be the reason. Here’s the link to the Newsnight segment, including the secret filming: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/5178122.stm You can find the programme transcripts here: http://www.badscience.net/?p=291#more-291 And here’s the video clip of Melanie Oxley defending the SoH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1UJ_qGZ24k |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#51 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,729
|
It's only a shame that they don't sue Randi - the legal fun would never end.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#52 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
|
|
__________________
"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#53 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
|
Having thought about this a bit further, this is not a legitimate get-out. In the real world, such an egregious "mistake" in a medical context is called negligence and is quite capable of forming the basis for a finding of "disgraceful conduct in a professional respect".
See this though; http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...-glass_20.html Their procedures are a sick joke. |
__________________
"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#54 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
|
""The good thing about the Internet is that no matter how many repressed cretins with outmoded morals and religious fundamentalist idiots hate what you have to say, they cannot burn a website."
Though the SoH have tried, and seem to have blown off their own eyebrows in the process. |
__________________
"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#55 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
A revealing look at the potential reasons for the SoH's failure to formally investigate the issue: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...h-matters.html Could the SoH be hiding behind a 'communications breakdown'? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#56 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,363
|
|
__________________
"i'm frankly surprised homeopathy does as well as placebo" Anonymous homeopath. "Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment; you must also be right." (Robert Park) Is the pen is mightier than the sword? Its effectiveness as a weapon is certainly enhanced if it is sharpened properly and poked in the eye of your opponent. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#57 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,673
|
Oh, I think this is now quite clearly deliberate, and they know very well what they're doing. It's getting this through to the public and the politicians that's the hard bit.
Rolfe. |
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#58 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
But their defiance continues. Here’s the latest SoH Press Statement:
Quote:
For a first class critique of Ms Ross's rebuttal see here: http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...burning-pants/ (Mintel report on CAM: http://www.mintel.com/press_release.php?id=288796 ) |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#59 |
New Blood
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8
|
Thanks for the plug. It's increasingly clear the SoH have a problem with honesty. It's also clear they are endorsing dangerous fools. I have been looking at statements made by some of their Fellows on AIDS and malaria. Very scary indeed. Blog posts to come....
Oh and if anyone has the a spare £5k or a copy of the full Mintel report then I would love to see it. Alternative health is a huge business. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#60 |
Adult human female
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 48,673
|
Quote:
Oh yeah. I was taken to a homoeopath by my mother, when I was 14. She cottoned on to the fact that it was fakery quicker than I did. But then, many years later, a surgeon who operated on me told me to take arnica pre and post-op. I did what I was told. OK, I was an idiot. Then some years after that, I took up a homoeopath's challenge to do a self-proving of 30C Belladonna. Didn't have any discernible effect. So, I've "used" homoeopathy, so I'm in that category. Would I use it again? I doubt it, but I might be prepared to try the proving game again, so maybe I'm entirely in the category. And you know what I think of homoeopathy. That I should be classed as supporting this nonsense by the way the survey is constructed, is quite offensive. Hey, it doesn't just say "homoeopathy", it says "complementary medicine". I sometimes use valerian tablets as a sleep aid. I have no huge confidence that they work, but hey, they're harmless at that sort of dose, and the ritual of pill-taking can have a placebo effect in a sleepless night anyway. Yes, I'd do that again. So, not just enlisting people who had homoeopathy forced on them as children in their supprt, they are also roping in all those who use more rational forms of alternative medicine. Great logic, Paula. Rolfe. |
__________________
"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#61 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,209
|
You give the customer what they want. The customer doesn't want to be told to go to their GP.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#62 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,789
|
Gimpy,
Have you let the Observer know about all of this? Maybe Paula Ross's intervention will backfire on her. |
__________________
"Reci bobu bob a popu pop." - Tanja "Everything is physics. This does not mean that physics is everything." - Cuddles "The entire practice of homeopathy can be substituted with the advice to "take two aspirins and call me in the morning." - Linda "Homeopathy: I never knew there was so little in it." - BSM |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#63 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
Paula Ross is not going to be pleased. Today’s Observer has published a severely edited version of her SoH press statement:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk:80/le...204930,00.html Meanwhile, more from Gimpy… Ralf Jeutter, a director of the Society of Homeopaths, ignores Code of Ethics, treats nasty diseases with magic potions http://gimpyblog.wordpress.com/2007/...magic-potions/ Snippet –
Quote:
Looks like Gimpy's formal complaint is going to be a cracker. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#64 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 36,171
|
She should consider herself lucky. The Guardian didn't bother printing Andy Kirk's letter about the Goldacre column at all. Someone's managed to sneak a comparison to Galileo in there ("some quack drop[ping] birdshot and cannonballs off the Leaning Tower"). That's 40 points. ETA: I see that he also thinks that Galileo proved that the heavier something is, the slower it falls ("exactly the opposite"), but maybe that just the way his letter has been edited. |
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#65 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 36,171
|
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#66 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
On the eve of its symposium in London on homeopathy and AIDS, the Society of Homeopaths has been at it again:
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007...deceiving.html |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 203
|
quackometer.net is now being threatened by "Professor" Joseph Chikelue Obi: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006...-and-kate.html (grab it quickly).
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#68 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
More on that development here:
http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.co...netcetera.html (Don’t forget to take a look at its January 2008 archives.) Do you know if there's anything we can do to help? |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 203
|
Here's the other post about Mr. Obi: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006...f-pompous.html
What LCN really needs is a different webhost and the time to move his site across. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#70 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,226
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#71 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 203
|
Also see what happens when you search google.ie for Joseph Chikelue Obi: you get a note that "In response to a legal request submitted to Google, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page." and a link to chillingeffects.org. See also http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.co...eter-blog.html
LCN isn't so worried about Mr. Obi's threats, but his web hosts netcetera are, as we saw when they caved in to the SoH in a "recent Landmark Legal Success" which saw the anti-SoH posting reposted hundreds of time across the blogosphere. Perhaps this is just a pathetic bid for attention from Mr. Obi: try to sue quackometer, get your name in all the blogs. I bet he isn't going after this: http://www.independent.ie/national-n...st-266728.html
Quote:
He's also been involved in cyber squatting. I don't know which of these is supposed to be the bizarre one: http://www.royalcam.org/ http://www.nhsalternativemedicine.com/ http://abolishthegmc.blogspot.com/ http://www.professorjosephchikelueobi.com/ http://www.obi.me.uk/ |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#72 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 3,070
|
I wonder if it's inherent in being a self-aggrandising nutter, but not-a-real-professor Obi writes like not-a-real-bishop Manchester.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#73 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 3,070
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#74 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 36,171
|
Here's another newspaper story about Joseph Chikelue Obi.
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#75 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 36,171
|
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#76 |
New Blood
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16
|
Yes, my sin cojones web hosts have received more threats.
Go to the quackometer site for more details. My only choice is to go to a new host with more mettle. I have an offer but it involves a big port of loads of asp vbscript to something more 'open' </technical> Enjoy the details of the 'lawyers' letter. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#77 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,789
|
Wow!
Anything we can do??? Re "Professor" Obi - I see his offences included
Quote:
|
__________________
"Reci bobu bob a popu pop." - Tanja "Everything is physics. This does not mean that physics is everything." - Cuddles "The entire practice of homeopathy can be substituted with the advice to "take two aspirins and call me in the morning." - Linda "Homeopathy: I never knew there was so little in it." - BSM |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#78 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,306
|
Here are your links: More threats to the Quackometer… http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2008...ackometer.html …which links to this blog: Legal threats and extortion to suppress the truth http://pvandck.wordpress.com/2008/01...ess-the-truth/
Quote:
And here’s the lawyer’s letter (lifted from LCN’s post over at the Bad Science forums): http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4176
Quote:
Black Duck, please keep us informed of any new developments. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#79 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,150
|
Obi is a rather clever buffoon, and nobody should ever take any notice of his threats. Frankly I don't believe there is anyone in his various organisations other than himself. Netcetera must be totally mad to cave in to this clown. I got him disciplined by one of my professional bodies, the Institute of Clinical Research, who made him take down some of his defamatory material. He is skulking in Eire because he'd be jailed in UK for fraud.
|
__________________
No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little. Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797) Blog - Majikthyse |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#80 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 36,171
|
Orac has now blogged about Joseph Chikelue Obi.
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|