Oral histories corroborate controlled demolition of the Twin Towers.

NemesisX · 25th October 2007, 01:51 PM

I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY in the months after 9/11. Taken together, these long-suppressed witness accounts corroborate controlled demolition of the Twin Towers.

Histories:
graphics8(dot)nytimes(dot)com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

NYT article:
www(dot)nytimes(dot)com/2005/08/12/nyregion/12records.html?ex=1281499200&en=b245bfd8ba497f9a&e i=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

The New York Times reported on 8/12/05:

Quote:

A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, will be made public today.

The histories - a mosaic of vision and memory recalling the human struggle against surging fire, confusion, and horror - were compiled by the New York City Fire Department beginning in October 2001, but to this date, no one from the department has read them all or used them for any official purpose.

...

The New York Times sought the records under the freedom of information law in February 2002, but the Bloomberg administration refused to make them public and the newspaper sued the city. Earlier this year, the Court of Appeals, New York's highest court, ordered the city to release most, but not all, of the records.

Do these sound characteristic of a gravity-driven collapse induced by impact damage and fire stress, or of explosive demolition?

"You heard a big boom, it was quiet for about ten seconds. Then you could hear another one. ... It was spaced apart in the beginning, but then it got to just a tremendous roar and a rumble that I will never forget."
--Neil Sweeting, EMS Paramedic, Division 6, interviewed 10/17/01

"You just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions."
--Craig Carlsen, FDNY Firefighter, Ladder 8, interviewed 1/25/02

"It almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came..."
--Thomas Turilli, FDNY Firefighter, Engine 47, interviewed 1/17/02

"I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down."
--Kevin Darnowski, EMS Paramedic, Battalion 20, interviewed 11/09/01

"I heard three loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center."
--Greg Brady, EMS EMT, Battalion 6, interviewed 11/01/01

"That's when [the North Tower] went. I looked back. You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down."
--Frank Campagna, FDNY Firefighter, Ladder 11, interviewed 12/04/01

"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building."
--Karin Deshore, EMS Captain, interviewed 11/07/01

"I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
...
"[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.
...
"He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too.
...
"I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes."
--Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01

"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down."
--Ed Cachia, FDNY Firefighter, Engine 53, interviewed 12/06/01

"It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that."
--Daniel Rivera, EMS Paramedic, Battalion 31, interviewed 10/10/01

I would additionally like a response to this video, which nicely contextualizes the witness accounts: www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=wDKa1Q1GwTQ

Bell · 25th October 2007, 01:54 PM

Smack? That you?

slyjoe · 25th October 2007, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY in the months after 9/11.
...snip...

Why, haven't you been paying attention?

Do you understand that sounds of explosions do not equal explosives?

Try using the search feature on this forum - then maybe you can resolve your problem.

Anti-sophist · 25th October 2007, 01:56 PM

People hearing things that can only be described as an explosion is completely consistent with the official story.

Your argument makes the absurd assumption that "sounds like explosion" means it was an explosion created by explosives.

Quote:

Do these sound characteristic of a gravity-driven collapse induced by impact damage and fire stress, or of explosive demolition?

Both.

Unsecured Coins · 25th October 2007, 01:56 PM

in a controlled demolition, explosions do not go off once every 10 seconds.

Next!!

mortimer · 25th October 2007, 02:00 PM

Ah, yet another simile-challenged troofer.

I suppose because several witnesses also report the collapses sounding like freight trains, that choo-choo trains were also involved in the destruction of the buildings, right?

All aboard the troof movement!

DGM · 25th October 2007, 02:02 PM

Welcome Nemesis:
What exactly should a building that large sound like when it collapses? Could you describe it (you can use similes).

332nd · 25th October 2007, 02:04 PM

With all of the audio equipment in the area and at least one mic (Naudet's) that was INSIDE one of the towers, none of them picked up anything that sounded like CD charges.

Bell · 25th October 2007, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

Welcome Nemesis:
What exactly should a building that large sound like when it collapses? Could you describe it (you can use similes).

I thought you said "you can use smilies"

Mancman · 25th October 2007, 02:05 PM

"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit"

I'd love to see some footage corroborating that one.

Sword_Of_Truth · 25th October 2007, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY blah, blah, blah...

You mean the same firefighters that you claim were in on the plot and have been covering up the deaths of thier friends ever since?

I agree with Bell, BTW. I fully expect to see a "BANNED" along with a single digit post count under your name within 24 hours.

CHF · 25th October 2007, 02:06 PM

NemesisX,

of all the people you just quoted, how many have you actually talked to in order to find out if they think the WTC was a demolition?

Bell · 25th October 2007, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Redtail

With all of the audio equipment in the area and at least one mic (Naudet's) that was INSIDE one of the towers, none of them picked up anything that sounded like CD charges.

Neither does it at the end of the recording of mr. Cosgrove's phonecall from inside the South Tower.

FramerDave · 25th October 2007, 02:07 PM

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick! Are you people really that retarded? How dumb can a human being get?

For the last time:

An explosion does not equal explosives.

An explosion does not equal controlled demolition.

When people use words like "like" it's called a simile. Look it up.

Idiot.

Unfit4Command · 25th October 2007, 02:11 PM

The sounds in this video corroborate that the crane was brought down with explosives too, correct?

Explosions followed by a collapse? What else could that be? Surely not structural failure of any kind.

slyjoe · 25th October 2007, 02:13 PM

Just as with the meaning of "momentum", I don't think they understand what "corroborate" means either.

annexw · 25th October 2007, 02:14 PM

It sounds like people describing what they heard and saw with the best reference terms they had.

If I describe something as having ears like an elephant, its not automatically an elephant. it just means that's the best term I have for it on hand. Or "my boyfriend snores like a freight train". Freight trains are rarely involved. I would go out on a limb and say 'never'.

Bell · 25th October 2007, 02:15 PM

Explosions explosions explosions explosions!!!
Must be a controlled demolition of the gas station!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Corsair 115 · 25th October 2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mancman

"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit"

I'd love to see some footage corroborating that one.

Considering that the aircraft impacts damaged multiple floors, how would one go about saying with any certainty that only one particular floor was the floor hit.

NemesisX · 25th October 2007, 02:20 PM

Hmmm about 14 replies in 10 minutes. I guess no one watched the 10-minute video I asked for a response to.

"I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
...
"[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.
...
"He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too.
...
"I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes."
--Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01

Explanation for that would be...?

beachnut · 25th October 2007, 02:20 PM

An OP wrong by not reading. Zen never posted as much source stuff as the new guy who is or is not a ... (truther)

Are you a truther?

Has anyone posted some stuff he could read, but has missed so he can understand why sound likes is not is.

Please debunk some of these yourself by including what they said. Not what you and the truth movement cherry picked. Cherry picker called 2:22 pm, October 25, 2007.

For example, the "rush of air" was from the building falling. Darn, a blast makes your brain explode, nose bleeds, and you die. But crashing building makes a blast of wind. Why not take a poke at debunking some of these yourself? If you can not debunk some of them, you must not be trying too hard. Are you able to research and read the stuff you posted; consider the blast of air debunked. Next you try one. Good luck.

CptColumbo · 25th October 2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by annexw

It sounds like people describing what they heard and saw with the best reference terms they had.

If I describe something as having ears like an elephant, its not automatically an elephant. it just means that's the best term I have for it on hand. Or "my boyfriend snores like a freight train". Freight trains are rarely involved. I would go out on a limb and say 'never'.

That is a good way to put it. Sometimes we take the long way to describe why one thing doesn't equal another.

Welcome to the forum annexw, if you haven't been already.

Pardalis · 25th October 2007, 02:23 PM

Oral histories are what they are, oral histories.

You got to corroborate them with physical proof.

CHF · 25th October 2007, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Explanation for that would be...?

Perhaps you should ask those people what they think it was, or better yet, talk to a demolition expert.

That's called "research."

T.A.M. · 25th October 2007, 02:24 PM

It just never ends does it...

TAM

NemesisX · 25th October 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

Perhaps you should ask those people what they think it was, or better yet, talk to a demolition expert.

That's called "research."

And that's called "evasion."

CHF · 25th October 2007, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

And that's called "evasion."

Of the people you quoted in your opening post, NONE are currently screaming about Demolitions.

Why is that?

Could it be that you're falsely drawing conclusions on their behalf?

e^n · 25th October 2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

"I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
...
"[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.
...
"He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too.
...
"I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes."
--Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01

Explanation for that would be...?

I could easily 'explain' this as being windows breaking and reflecting light because that is exactly what you're doing here. There is no firefighter account describing any explosive device or an explosion resulting from one and indeed a lot of people mentioning what they thought in past tense.

Regardless, lets address these quotes specifically. What structural element do you believe these explosions affected, how severely and at what point in or before the collapse?

NemesisX · 25th October 2007, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

Of the people you quoted in your opening post, NONE are currently screaming about Demolitions.

Why is that?

Could it be that you're falsely drawing conclusions on their behalf?

Could it be you underestimate the efficacy of the cover-up in molding people's perceptions after the attack? Could it be you don't know how susceptible witness accounts are to post-event manipulation?

I'm still waiting for a possible explanation of Mr. Gregory's observation of flashes at the base of the tower.

I'm also still waiting for a substantive response to the video I linked.

beachnut · 25th October 2007, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Hmmm about 14 replies in 10 minutes. I guess no one watched the 10-minute video I asked for a response to.

"I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
...
"[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.
...
"He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too.
...
"I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes."
--Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01

Explanation for that would be...?

No you failed to read the entire statements of the witnesses to understand what they are talking about. You also failed to debunk some of this BS by yourself. Proving you do not want to research the truth, you are trolling trying to pass on misinformation and lies of 9/11 truth. Or have I missed your intention and just missed the fact you could be reading challenged or unable to use rational or logical thought to solve problems.

You are the one who is not prepared for understanding 9/11. Why, and who has failed you in your education? Most great Americans are self educated, you and I have failed.

332nd · 25th October 2007, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Hmmm about 14 replies in 10 minutes. I guess no one watched the 10-minute video I asked for a response to.

"I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
...
"[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.
...
"He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too.
...
"I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes."
--Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01

Explanation for that would be...?

I'm going to ignore the "I thoughts" and the similes, and ask...

If the (silent) charges were going off near the bottom, why did the towers collapse from the top down?

beachnut · 25th October 2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Could it be you underestimate the efficacy of the cover-up in molding people's perceptions after the attack? Could it be you don't know how susceptible witness accounts are to post-event manipulation?

I'm still waiting for a possible explanation of Mr. Gregory's observation of flashes at the base of the tower.

I'm also still waiting for a substantive response to the video I linked.

Gee, you are just a troll, you failed to debunk stuff already debunked. Why? How come you posted a bunch of junk without even trying to read what has already been posted?

NemesisX · 25th October 2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Redtail

I'm going to ignore the "I thoughts" and the similes, and ask...

If the (silent) charges were going off near the bottom, why did the towers collapse from the top down?

The multiple explosions heard/seen before the final collapse would have been intended to sever core columns, likely using thermite cutter charges (if not ONLY such), and the firecracker/gunshot/derailed-freight-train rapid succession of booms (DESCRIBED IN THE VIDEO I LINKED) would be the top-down demolition via high explosive meant to give the impression that the extreme pulverization of the building was caused by the plane crash since it started from the crash zone.

Pardalis · 25th October 2007, 02:40 PM

e^n · 25th October 2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

The multiple explosions heard/seen before the final collapse would have been intended to sever core columns, likely using thermite cutter charges (if not ONLY such), and the firecracker/gunshot/derailed-freight-train rapid succession of booms (DESCRIBED IN THE VIDEO I LINKED) would be the top-down demolition via high explosive meant to give the impression that the extreme pulverization of the building was caused by the plane crash since it started from the crash zone.

There's no such thing as a 'thermite cutter charge', there are devices designed to cut through steel columns using thermite but no such device could have been reasonably hidden within the towers.

How many core columns do you believe were severed before collapse initiation? Does this apply to both towers or only WTC2?

edit: Also I asked you some questions above if you'd be so kind.

ElMondoHummus · 25th October 2007, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY in the months after 9/11.

Then you haven't looked here:

http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm
http://911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/introduction

The "sounds of explosions" CT was debunked quite a while ago. It's actually a rather old myth.

Sword_Of_Truth · 25th October 2007, 02:45 PM

[derail]
ZENNSMACK89 is a giant frakking idiot. He is a retard, wrapped in a moron, tied up in a halfwit.

Since ZENNSMACK89 has been banned from JREF, I can say that about him now since I am not attacking someone who is a member of the JREF forum community.

Wouldn't you agree, NemesisX?
[/derail]

leftysergeant · 25th October 2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

"I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes."
--Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01

Explanation for that would be...?

Lights from emergency vehicles. Windows vibrating to xatch the light differently. Relections from glass falling out of windows in the collapse zone, all sorts of things like that can cause flashes to appear on glass or polished metal surfaces.

Important thing is the they did not HEAR explosions or see explosive ejecta.

DGM · 25th October 2007, 02:46 PM

I'm still waiting for you to describe what the collapse should have sounded like.

T.A.M. · 25th October 2007, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Do these sound characteristic of a gravity-driven collapse induced by impact damage and fire stress, or of explosive demolition?

Yes they all do...next!

but seriously,

Quote:

"You heard a big boom, it was quiet for about ten seconds. Then you could hear another one. ... It was spaced apart in the beginning, but then it got to just a tremendous roar and a rumble that I will never forget."
--Neil Sweeting, EMS Paramedic, Division 6, interviewed 10/17/01

Here is a more complete version...

Quote:

I remember when we heard abandon the
site , I said , wow, this would be really good to
keep with us. So I started pushing this cart,
and I got stuck in the doorway with it, when we
started hearing this rumble. I can remember -- I
specifically remember this like twisting sound of
metal. We were probably about half a block away
from the complex at this point .
You heard a big boom, it was quiet for
about ten seconds. Then you could hear another
one. Now I realize it was the floors starting to
stack on top of each other as they were falling .
It was spaced apart in the beginning, but then it
got to just a tremendous roar and a rumble that I
will never forget .

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...s_full_01.html

Please reproduce the quotes in full next time, so we can see them in the proper context...poor form.

TAM

25th October 2007, 01:51 PM	#1
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11	Oral histories corroborate controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY in the months after 9/11. Taken together, these long-suppressed witness accounts corroborate controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. Histories: graphics8(dot)nytimes(dot)com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html NYT article: www(dot)nytimes(dot)com/2005/08/12/nyregion/12records.html?ex=1281499200&en=b245bfd8ba497f9a&e i=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss The New York Times reported on 8/12/05: Quote: A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, will be made public today. The histories - a mosaic of vision and memory recalling the human struggle against surging fire, confusion, and horror - were compiled by the New York City Fire Department beginning in October 2001, but to this date, no one from the department has read them all or used them for any official purpose. ... The New York Times sought the records under the freedom of information law in February 2002, but the Bloomberg administration refused to make them public and the newspaper sued the city. Earlier this year, the Court of Appeals, New York's highest court, ordered the city to release most, but not all, of the records. Do these sound characteristic of a gravity-driven collapse induced by impact damage and fire stress, or of explosive demolition? "You heard a big boom, it was quiet for about ten seconds. Then you could hear another one. ... It was spaced apart in the beginning, but then it got to just a tremendous roar and a rumble that I will never forget." --Neil Sweeting, EMS Paramedic, Division 6, interviewed 10/17/01 "You just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions." --Craig Carlsen, FDNY Firefighter, Ladder 8, interviewed 1/25/02 "It almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came..." --Thomas Turilli, FDNY Firefighter, Engine 47, interviewed 1/17/02 "I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down." --Kevin Darnowski, EMS Paramedic, Battalion 20, interviewed 11/09/01 "I heard three loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center." --Greg Brady, EMS EMT, Battalion 6, interviewed 11/01/01 "That's when [the North Tower] went. I looked back. You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down." --Frank Campagna, FDNY Firefighter, Ladder 11, interviewed 12/04/01 "Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." --Karin Deshore, EMS Captain, interviewed 11/07/01 "I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. ... "[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. ... "He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too. ... "I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes." --Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01 "It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down." --Ed Cachia, FDNY Firefighter, Engine 53, interviewed 12/06/01 "It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that." --Daniel Rivera, EMS Paramedic, Battalion 31, interviewed 10/10/01 I would additionally like a response to this video, which nicely contextualizes the witness accounts: www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=wDKa1Q1GwTQ
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11

25th October 2007, 01:55 PM	#3
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,600	Originally Posted by NemesisX I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY in the months after 9/11. ...snip... Why, haven't you been paying attention? Do you understand that sounds of explosions do not equal explosives? Try using the search feature on this forum - then maybe you can resolve your problem.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

25th October 2007, 01:56 PM	#4
Anti-sophist Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,542	People hearing things that can only be described as an explosion is completely consistent with the official story. Your argument makes the absurd assumption that "sounds like explosion" means it was an explosion created by explosives. Quote: Do these sound characteristic of a gravity-driven collapse induced by impact damage and fire stress, or of explosive demolition? Both.
	__________________ A witty saying proves nothing. -Voltaire Last edited by Anti-sophist; 25th October 2007 at 01:58 PM.

25th October 2007, 01:56 PM	#5
Unsecured Coins Hoku-maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,905	in a controlled demolition, explosions do not go off once every 10 seconds. Next!!
	__________________ "If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again

25th October 2007, 02:00 PM	#6
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,517	Ah, yet another simile-challenged troofer. I suppose because several witnesses also report the collapses sounding like freight trains, that choo-choo trains were also involved in the destruction of the buildings, right? All aboard the troof movement!
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,517	__________________ "why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid

25th October 2007, 01:54 PM	#2
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Smack? That you?

25th October 2007, 02:02 PM	#7
DGM Skeptic not Atheist Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 24,743	Welcome Nemesis: What exactly should a building that large sound like when it collapses? Could you describe it (you can use similes).
	__________________ "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

25th October 2007, 02:04 PM	#8
332nd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 11,278	With all of the audio equipment in the area and at least one mic (Naudet's) that was INSIDE one of the towers, none of them picked up anything that sounded like CD charges.
	__________________ The poster formerly known as Redtail

25th October 2007, 02:04 PM	#9
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by DGM Welcome Nemesis: What exactly should a building that large sound like when it collapses? Could you describe it (you can use similes). I thought you said "you can use smilies"

25th October 2007, 02:05 PM	#10
Mancman Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,008	"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit" I'd love to see some footage corroborating that one.
Mancman Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,008	__________________ R.I.P Dr. Adequate

25th October 2007, 02:05 PM	#11
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,494	Originally Posted by NemesisX I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY blah, blah, blah... You mean the same firefighters that you claim were in on the plot and have been covering up the deaths of thier friends ever since? I agree with Bell, BTW. I fully expect to see a "BANNED" along with a single digit post count under your name within 24 hours.

25th October 2007, 02:06 PM	#12
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,871	NemesisX, of all the people you just quoted, how many have you actually talked to in order to find out if they think the WTC was a demolition?
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,871

25th October 2007, 02:06 PM	#13
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by Redtail With all of the audio equipment in the area and at least one mic (Naudet's) that was INSIDE one of the towers, none of them picked up anything that sounded like CD charges. Neither does it at the end of the recording of mr. Cosgrove's phonecall from inside the South Tower.

25th October 2007, 02:07 PM	#14
FramerDave Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 819	Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick! Are you people really that retarded? How dumb can a human being get? For the last time: An explosion does not equal explosives. An explosion does not equal controlled demolition. When people use words like "like" it's called a simile. Look it up. Idiot.
FramerDave Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 819

25th October 2007, 02:11 PM	#15
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	The sounds in this video corroborate that the crane was brought down with explosives too, correct? Explosions followed by a collapse? What else could that be? Surely not structural failure of any kind.
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	__________________ Last edited by Unfit4Command; 25th October 2007 at 02:17 PM.

25th October 2007, 02:13 PM	#16
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,600	Just as with the meaning of "momentum", I don't think they understand what "corroborate" means either.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

25th October 2007, 02:14 PM	#17
annexw Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 55	It sounds like people describing what they heard and saw with the best reference terms they had. If I describe something as having ears like an elephant, its not automatically an elephant. it just means that's the best term I have for it on hand. Or "my boyfriend snores like a freight train". Freight trains are rarely involved. I would go out on a limb and say 'never'.
annexw Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 55	Last edited by annexw; 25th October 2007 at 02:17 PM.

25th October 2007, 02:17 PM	#19
Corsair 115 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 14,519	Originally Posted by Mancman "It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit" I'd love to see some footage corroborating that one. Considering that the aircraft impacts damaged multiple floors, how would one go about saying with any certainty that only one particular floor was the floor hit.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

25th October 2007, 02:20 PM	#20
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11	Hmmm about 14 replies in 10 minutes. I guess no one watched the 10-minute video I asked for a response to. "I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. ... "[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. ... "He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too. ... "I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes." --Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01 Explanation for that would be...?
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11

25th October 2007, 02:20 PM	#21
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 26,120	An OP wrong by not reading. Zen never posted as much source stuff as the new guy who is or is not a ... (truther) Are you a truther? Has anyone posted some stuff he could read, but has missed so he can understand why sound likes is not is. Please debunk some of these yourself by including what they said. Not what you and the truth movement cherry picked. Cherry picker called 2:22 pm, October 25, 2007. For example, the "rush of air" was from the building falling. Darn, a blast makes your brain explode, nose bleeds, and you die. But crashing building makes a blast of wind. Why not take a poke at debunking some of these yourself? If you can not debunk some of them, you must not be trying too hard. Are you able to research and read the stuff you posted; consider the blast of air debunked. Next you try one. Good luck.
	Last edited by beachnut; 25th October 2007 at 02:27 PM.

25th October 2007, 02:23 PM	#22
CptColumbo Just One More Question Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lots of places Posts: 9,237	Originally Posted by annexw It sounds like people describing what they heard and saw with the best reference terms they had. If I describe something as having ears like an elephant, its not automatically an elephant. it just means that's the best term I have for it on hand. Or "my boyfriend snores like a freight train". Freight trains are rarely involved. I would go out on a limb and say 'never'. That is a good way to put it. Sometimes we take the long way to describe why one thing doesn't equal another. Welcome to the forum annexw, if you haven't been already.
	__________________ I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office" The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling

25th October 2007, 02:23 PM	#23
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817	Oral histories are what they are, oral histories. You got to corroborate them with physical proof.
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

25th October 2007, 02:24 PM	#24
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,871	Originally Posted by NemesisX Explanation for that would be...? Perhaps you should ask those people what they think it was, or better yet, talk to a demolition expert. That's called "research."
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,871

25th October 2007, 02:24 PM	#25
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	It just never ends does it... TAM

25th October 2007, 02:26 PM	#26
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11	Originally Posted by CHF Perhaps you should ask those people what they think it was, or better yet, talk to a demolition expert. That's called "research." And that's called "evasion."
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11

25th October 2007, 02:28 PM	#27
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,871	Originally Posted by NemesisX And that's called "evasion." Of the people you quoted in your opening post, NONE are currently screaming about Demolitions. Why is that? Could it be that you're falsely drawing conclusions on their behalf?
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,871

25th October 2007, 02:30 PM	#28
e^n Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 810	Originally Posted by NemesisX "I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. ... "[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. ... "He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too. ... "I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes." --Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01 Explanation for that would be...? I could easily 'explain' this as being windows breaking and reflecting light because that is exactly what you're doing here. There is no firefighter account describing any explosive device or an explosion resulting from one and indeed a lot of people mentioning what they thought in past tense. Regardless, lets address these quotes specifically. What structural element do you believe these explosions affected, how severely and at what point in or before the collapse?
e^n Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 810

25th October 2007, 02:31 PM	#29
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11	Originally Posted by CHF Of the people you quoted in your opening post, NONE are currently screaming about Demolitions. Why is that? Could it be that you're falsely drawing conclusions on their behalf? Could it be you underestimate the efficacy of the cover-up in molding people's perceptions after the attack? Could it be you don't know how susceptible witness accounts are to post-event manipulation? I'm still waiting for a possible explanation of Mr. Gregory's observation of flashes at the base of the tower. I'm also still waiting for a substantive response to the video I linked.
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11

25th October 2007, 02:33 PM	#30
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 26,120	Originally Posted by NemesisX Hmmm about 14 replies in 10 minutes. I guess no one watched the 10-minute video I asked for a response to. "I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down. ... "[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. ... "He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too. ... "I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes." --Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01 Explanation for that would be...? No you failed to read the entire statements of the witnesses to understand what they are talking about. You also failed to debunk some of this BS by yourself. Proving you do not want to research the truth, you are trolling trying to pass on misinformation and lies of 9/11 truth. Or have I missed your intention and just missed the fact you could be reading challenged or unable to use rational or logical thought to solve problems. You are the one who is not prepared for understanding 9/11. Why, and who has failed you in your education? Most great Americans are self educated, you and I have failed.

25th October 2007, 02:35 PM	#32
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 26,120	Originally Posted by NemesisX Could it be you underestimate the efficacy of the cover-up in molding people's perceptions after the attack? Could it be you don't know how susceptible witness accounts are to post-event manipulation? I'm still waiting for a possible explanation of Mr. Gregory's observation of flashes at the base of the tower. I'm also still waiting for a substantive response to the video I linked. Gee, you are just a troll, you failed to debunk stuff already debunked. Why? How come you posted a bunch of junk without even trying to read what has already been posted?

25th October 2007, 02:38 PM	#33
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11	Originally Posted by Redtail I'm going to ignore the "I thoughts" and the similes, and ask... If the (silent) charges were going off near the bottom, why did the towers collapse from the top down? The multiple explosions heard/seen before the final collapse would have been intended to sever core columns, likely using thermite cutter charges (if not ONLY such), and the firecracker/gunshot/derailed-freight-train rapid succession of booms (DESCRIBED IN THE VIDEO I LINKED) would be the top-down demolition via high explosive meant to give the impression that the extreme pulverization of the building was caused by the plane crash since it started from the crash zone.
NemesisX New Blood Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 11

25th October 2007, 02:40 PM	#34
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,817

25th October 2007, 02:40 PM	#35
e^n Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 810	Originally Posted by NemesisX The multiple explosions heard/seen before the final collapse would have been intended to sever core columns, likely using thermite cutter charges (if not ONLY such), and the firecracker/gunshot/derailed-freight-train rapid succession of booms (DESCRIBED IN THE VIDEO I LINKED) would be the top-down demolition via high explosive meant to give the impression that the extreme pulverization of the building was caused by the plane crash since it started from the crash zone. There's no such thing as a 'thermite cutter charge', there are devices designed to cut through steel columns using thermite but no such device could have been reasonably hidden within the towers. How many core columns do you believe were severed before collapse initiation? Does this apply to both towers or only WTC2? edit: Also I asked you some questions above if you'd be so kind.
e^n Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 810

25th October 2007, 02:45 PM	#36
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 12,282	Originally Posted by NemesisX I have never seen a substantive debunker response to the 503 oral histories gathered by the FDNY in the months after 9/11. Then you haven't looked here: http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm http://911myths.com/html/accounts_of_explosions.html http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/introduction The "sounds of explosions" CT was debunked quite a while ago. It's actually a rather old myth.
	__________________ "AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."

25th October 2007, 02:45 PM	#38
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 18,863	Quote: "I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes." --Stephen Gregory, FDNY Assistant Commissioner, interviewed 10/03/01 Explanation for that would be...? Lights from emergency vehicles. Windows vibrating to xatch the light differently. Relections from glass falling out of windows in the collapse zone, all sorts of things like that can cause flashes to appear on glass or polished metal surfaces. Important thing is the they did not HEAR explosions or see explosive ejecta.