Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ha ha ha ha ha!

One of the claims is that precipitation was unknown at the time the bible was written. Yeah, like it never rained back then.

Ooh and snow was unheard of.

And cavemen! Wait, I thought fundamentalists didn't believe in cave men.

This site really is too funny.
 
Yes, but how many people knew that the rain initially came from the earth.

Job 36 verse 27. -- It is God who takes water from the earth and turns it into drops of rain. (Todays English Version)
 
Wrong. You are using a version of the bible that has been reinterpreted to more closely match what has been learned recently. From the original KJV:

Job 36:27 said:
For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof:
Click to expand...


You aren't very good at this whole "research" thing, are you?

And you have clearly proven that cave men did exist! Go Neandertals!
 
Actually, even though Moses (the supposed author of Genesis) probably never took a science course or had access to a telescope he seemed to know a lot about modern scientific theory.

Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:


Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation. and that the earth hung suspended in space. Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7
 
Hokulele said:
Wrong. You are using a version of the bible that has been reinterpreted to more closely match what has been learned recently. From the original KJV


Job 36:27

For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof:
Click to expand...

Well, if you don't like that explanation of rain, how about this one.

Psalms 135 verse 7 KJV

HE causeth the vapours to "ascend" from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain;
 
Last edited:
Let me illustrate what they were talking about. This is how the ancient Israelites pictured the water cycle:

Hebrew.gif


Endless waters above created by god which fall through windows in the sky to drain into the Great Deep. Very sciencey, eh DOC? Or is this still a few centuries too advanced for you?
 
I prefer all the science stuff that god either didn't know about or was too mean to tell.

The number zero would have been a nice start. No special equipment needed.

Great link. I love the way that they actually think this makes sense:

Such a list confirms that the Scriptures are scientifically credible. It further confirms that the Scriptures were supernaturally inspired.
Click to expand...

I'm off to do some experiments with Gravity Pixies*.

.

* Tiny pixies that grab hold of everything and pull them down. i.e. Bullets don't immediately drop out of the end of the gun as it takes a while for the pixies to catch up and grab the bullet. Faster bullets make it more difficult. I'm developing a faster than pixie weapon. Copyright H3LL 2007
 
The Bible supposedly talks about the TV in Revelations. The relevant verses read:

For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
Click to expand...
:confused:
 
In the DOC's link, "Dr" Henry Morris (is this idiot you DOC?) does not provide links to his scripture, nor does he quote them.

The reason is because he is a lying, liar and, I assume, expects the faithful to take his word for it:

I just looked at the biology section. I haven't done the others as all the lies and distortions just got me annoyed. Someone else may want to take the time to look at his other lies.

Here we go - Lying for Jesus: From the link:

Biology






Blood Circulation - Leviticus 17:11 - LIE - No mention of circulation -
11For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.​

Psychotherapy - Proverbs 16:24; 17:22 - LIE - No therapy and the heart has nothing to do with emotions or behaviour.
24Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.​
22A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.​

Biogenesis and Stability - Genesis 1:11,21,25 - LIE - Nothing in the science of biogenesis says god did anything.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.​
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

Uniqueness of Man - Genesis 1:26 - LIE - When is the dominion over viruses and bacteria going to happen then? Still waiting.....
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Chemical Nature of Flesh - Genesis 1:11 - LIE - No chemicals or flesh mentioned - Lots of veggies though.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.​

Chemical Nature of Flesh - Genesis 24-2:7 - LIE - Here we have those famous and useful chemicals popular in medicine - "Dust" and "Mist". - How would science manage without them.
Find the scripture HERE. There is enough garbage in this post as it is.​

Chemical Nature of Flesh - 3:19 - LIE - More of that chemical, "Dust".
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.​

Cave-men - Job 12:23-25; 30:3-8 - LIE - A wilderness is a cave now. Well bats are birds, apparently, so wildernesses being caves is just as plausible.
23He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.​
24He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.​
25They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.​
Click to expand...

Well DOC - Utter, utter drivel in your link. Did you actually bother to read it or even check even one of the bible quotes.

Even more bizarre is that you didn't expect anyone here to look.

Even being very, very generous I found it impossible to make any lucid connections between the bible quotes and the science.

Try this book - it has all the real science in the Bible - You can preview it.

.
 
Last edited:
DOC said:
Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea
Click to expand...

That is hardly rocket science. First of all, there is no mention of a universe, just that there is a void. Which is rather obvious if you are to describe the beginning of the world.

Then Earth appears in that void. Simple logic.

Then land and sea appears on Earth, where or when else could it appear? There had to be somewhere for it to appear.

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals
Click to expand...

You conviniently ignore that birds are mentioned together with sea animals ;).

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans
Click to expand...

Well, maybe somebody had already figured out evolution. After all, they were cattle breeders.

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation.
Click to expand...

At what?? At what time was there no precipitation????

Why shouldn't ancient people have quite some knowledge about evaporation and condensation? Don't you think they observed what happened when they boiled water?

and that the earth hung suspended in space.
Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7
Click to expand...

That is a very generous interpretation.

......

However, the main failure of this line of argument is that it assumes that ancient humans were completely ignorant beasts. They were not. They had exactly the same brains as we have (and since you must be a creationist, I double dare you to imply otherwise ;) ).

At the time of the writing of the OT, they had invented ceramics (millienna earlier, in fact), built multi-storey buildings, developed simple metallurgy, quite advanced chemistry, had probably invented galvanic plating, were writing books (goes without saying, really), mastered fairly advanced math, and had complex (if somewhat flawed) knowledge of astronomy.

Why exactly should we be surprised if they had some insights in science that were later confirmed by modern research?

Why should we assume they needed divine help for that?

Hans
 
DOC said:
Well, if you don't like that explanation of rain, how about this one.

Psalms 135 verse 7 KJV

HE causeth the vapours to "ascend" from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain;
Click to expand...
Lessee. Somebody figured that rain had to coem from somewhere. He noticed that when a pot with water boiled on the heath, the water disappeared from it, cloud-like vapour billowed up, and condensation collected on things above. He then wen outside, saw the rain-clouds, and figured: Hey! God must be boiling a lot of water somewhere!

Yeah, no mortal human could ever have gotten that thought, that's for sure :rolleyes:.

..... Wait! I just did! Does that make me divine?

Hans
 
So, to the question in the OP, "Is science getting closer to God and the Bible?":

There are really two answers:

1) No, it's the other way around: Now that science has found the real answers, bible scolars are desperately trying to reinterpret scripture to hang on.

2) Yes, science is getting closer to God and the Bible: Science is finding the truths that God and the Bible used to pretend to have.

Hans
 
DOC said:
Actually, even though Moses (the supposed author of Genesis) probably never took a science course or had access to a telescope he seemed to know a lot about modern scientific theory.

Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:


Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation. and that the earth hung suspended in space. Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7
Click to expand...

Or Genesis 1:1 The Earth First
Genesis 1:2 Then light
Genesis 1:11 Then Plants
Genesis 1:16 Then the sun and the moon
Genesis 1:27 Then men and women
Genesis 2:7 Then a Man again
Genesis 2:19 Then animals again
Genesis 2:22 Then a Woman again

Can you really suggest such a self contradictory just so story is the parallel of empirical knowledge. That's as big as lie as when your God said "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"
 
H3LL said:
I'm off to do some experiments with Gravity Pixies*.

.

* Tiny pixies that grab hold of everything and pull them down. i.e. Bullets don't immediately drop out of the end of the gun as it takes a while for the pixies to catch up and grab the bullet. Faster bullets make it more difficult. I'm developing a faster than pixie weapon. Copyright H3LL 2007
Click to expand...


Gravity pixies?!?!?! Get real. Everyone knows gravity is caused by His Noodliness, pressing down on every single thing with his noodly appendages.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
Gravity pixies?!?!?! Get real. Everyone knows gravity is caused by His Noodliness, pressing down on every single thing with his noodly appendages.
Click to expand...
Close, but you're missing the important part.

The FSM is attempting to grab everything with his noodly appendages in order to bring them up into his Holy Pastaness. Gravity Pixies are the fallen angels of FSMology and prevent the rightful ascension of all things into their deserved glory where they will be seated next to the Virgin Marinara.
 
DOC said:
I came across this site that claims many scientific principles were actually presented first in the bible.
Click to expand...

What you have here, DOC, is a hydraulic engineer who is (1) speaking outside his area of expertise and (2) redefining science to suit his purposes. He's fitting the facts to his theory rather than properly fitting his theory to the facts.

I would not recommend this man as a reliable or authoritative source.
 
DOC said:
Actually, even though Moses (the supposed author of Genesis) probably never took a science course or had access to a telescope he seemed to know a lot about modern scientific theory.

Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:


Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea
Click to expand...

Then the Sun and Moon.


Just like in astronomy!
 
But don't you just love these "The Science in Star Trek" and "The Science in Harry Potter" books! There was even one for the X-Files.
 
Even if your claim were true, one has to wonder why your God included only those scientific facts that were completely worthless to humans a couple of millenia ago. Wouldn't your God have been much more praiseworthy if He gave instructions on how to perform artifical respiration, or how to wash out cuts with alcohol, or how to apply pressure to stop bleeding? Of all the millions of scientific facts available, your God choose to make veiled references to the rain cycle. What a Tool. Instead of including important information, He spends a whole chapter describing what kind of curtains will make Him happy (Exodus 26:1-37). Go peddle your version of Christianity somewhere else, DOC. No one here is buying
 
And Star Wars:

Judges 5:20: "They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera."
 
If an argument for the truth of the Bible is that it agrees with science, does that not imply the validity of the scientific method? If so, then you have a problem. Rather, you have many -- the Bible contradicts science repeatedly and under no uncertain terms.

Either science is a valid method of approaching the truth or it isn’t; it’s conclusions either trustworthy or not. You can’t have it both ways.
 
Ignore the lies for a minute. They are the same lies that "Christians" have been pushing for decades. It is boring, and attacking DOC for repeating these same boring lies isn't too interesting either.

Instead, it is much more interesting to explore the various mental states of the people involved. We can assume that somewhere along the chain, someone must understand that these ARE lies... but is that a safe assumption? We know that the people repeating the lies aren't applying any rational or critical thinking when they are presented with these make-believe "facts"... but how can they manage to hold jobs and dress themselves, and still fall for this nonsense?

There are a lot of really intriguing things to explore here.:)
 
JoeEllison said:
Ignore the lies for a minute. They are the same lies that "Christians" have been pushing for decades. It is boring, and attacking DOC for repeating these same boring lies isn't too interesting either.

Instead, it is much more interesting to explore the various mental states of the people involved. We can assume that somewhere along the chain, someone must understand that these ARE lies... but is that a safe assumption? We know that the people repeating the lies aren't applying any rational or critical thinking when they are presented with these make-believe "facts"... but how can they manage to hold jobs and dress themselves, and still fall for this nonsense?

There are a lot of really intriguing things to explore here.:)
Click to expand...

Wishful thinking, and/or not thinking for themselves.
 
BTW "DoK" Still haven't spotted that post on your college and major (still curious due to your comment about being great in Logic in college) (and the strong lack of support for that statement given his writings here). ( This refers to the Thomas Jefferson silliness/thread. My post 1866 there in response to his claim an noted here).
 
Hilarious. I can't find a single one that describes a scientific process or phenomenon that wouldn't have been known to the people at the time. Most don't describe what they say they describe.

It's funny that when you point out to a fundie some scientific error in the Bible, like bats being birds, or insects having four legs, the excuse is always that God had to put it in those terms because that's what would have been understood by the people at the time. But now comes the claim that there are all these things that wouldn't have been understood by people at the time (like snow!!), and that goes in the Bible as well.

Some particularly funny ones:

Number of stars:
Genesis 22:17
"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies"
(So... a lot? There's no way ancient people could have known there were a lot of stars without divine guidance? When exactly did humans master the scientific art of "looking up"?)

Size of the universe:
Job 11:7-9
"Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea."
Isaiah 55:9
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
(Amazing! Who in those times could have guessed that the sky was above the earth, and that the universe was somewhat bigger than the earth?)

Electrical transmission of information:
Job 38:35
"Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?"
(The point of this passage is that people can't do these things. It's in the middle of a whole bunch of things that humans can't do. If you want to argue that humans today can "send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are," then you're arguing that this passage of the Bible is wrong.)
 
DOC said:
Actually, even though Moses (the supposed author of Genesis) probably never took a science course or had access to a telescope he seemed to know a lot about modern scientific theory.

Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:


Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation. and that the earth hung suspended in space. Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7
Click to expand...

Here's another account:

Ezra 6:38 - Heaven and earth
Ezra 6:40 - Light
Ezra 6:41 - Water above, water below
Ezra 6:42 - Water confined to 1/7 of the earth; 6/7 dry land
Ezra 6:44 - Fruits and flowers
Ezra 6:45 - Sun, moon, stars
Ezra 6:46 - Sun, moon, and stars commanded to serve man.
(Sun, moon, and stars laugh behind God's back; there IS no man yet...)
Ezra 6:47 - Watery 1/7 gives birth to fish and birds
Ezra 6:49 - One living creature for the water (Leviathan), one for the land (Enoch)
Ezra 6:53 - Beasts, unbeastly cattle, and creeping things
Ezra 6:54 - Adam

I hope science never catches up to that 1/7 water, 6/7 land factoid; I much prefer 7/10 water, 3/10 land. And I do wonder how the earth (and light!) was created before the sun, moon, and stars. And how the flowers and fruit trees managed photosynthesis before the creation of the sun (oh, wait, there was still all that LIGHT, so God could see while he worked). And I hope Jesus won't need to be crucified again to atone for all the people who might mistake this for good science.
 
DOC said:
I came across this site that claims many scientific principles were actually presented first in the bible.

http://www.creationevidence.org/scientific_evid/se_scripture.html
Click to expand...

To answer the thread's title question, "Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?", that would be a resounding "No".

FWIW, my introduction to skepticism was through a college philosophy class called "Science and Pseudoscience" and I recall studying one of Morris' books then... guess which side he was studied as an example of? :D
 
JoeEllison said:
We can assume that somewhere along the chain, someone must understand that these ARE lies... but is that a safe assumption?
Click to expand...

In Space by Michener, there is a character who runs small-time UFO scams in the back of magazines during the rise of the space age in the United States. The character senses the winds of change as the 80s approach (and interest in space wanes) and switches to a televised ministry. I wonder if Michener wrote this as an indictment of liars at the top of ministries.
 
Last edited:
Taffer said:
Wishful thinking, and/or not thinking for themselves.
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. "Wishful thinking" makes me hope I'll win the lottery, not imagine that the reason I haven't won the lottery is that there is an international cabal of Jewish bankers, Freemasons, and Latin American meat packing glitterati conspiring to keep me from collecting my rightful winnings. There's a difference of degree AND of kind between normal wishful thinking and the willful rejection of reality in favor of some millennia-old sheepherder mythology, combined with a delusional twisting of both to create a false agreement between the two.
 
DOC said:
Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:
Click to expand...


Carl Baugh

He and several others are known for claiming to have discovered human and dinosaur footprints together in rocks near the Paluxy River in Texas. Baugh's "research" has put him at odds with other young earth creationists. His claims are rejected by many in the scientific community as pseudoscience.

{snip}

He also appears on a weekly Trinity Broadcasting Network show called "Creation in the 21st Century" and is president and Ph. D alumnus of the Pacific International University, which many have accused of being a diploma mill.

{snip}

Baugh has claimed several degrees, at one point professing to earning three doctorates. All three "doctorates" are from unaccredited "schools." One is an honorary "Doctor of Philosophy in Theology" from the California Graduate School of Theology (not accredited). His 1989 "doctorate" comes from Pacific International University (not accredited), a distance education only "school" Baugh was the president of. His dissertation titled "Academic Justification for Voluntary Inclusion of Scientific Creation in Public Classroom Curricula, Supported by Evidence that Man and Dinosaurs Were Contemporary" was reviewed at the "Talk Origins Archive" website as including "descriptions of his field-work on the Paluxy river 'man-tracks', speculation about Charles Darwin's religious beliefs and phobias, and odd ramblings about the biblical Adam's mental excellence." In 2005, Baugh completed a Doctorate degree in Theology from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University.
Click to expand...
Yikes. This guy is an even worse source than the guy in your OP. At least Henry Morris had an education and didn't just invent things out of whole cloth.
 
JoeEllison said:
Ignore the lies for a minute. They are the same lies that "Christians" have been pushing for decades. It is boring, and attacking DOC for repeating these same boring lies isn't too interesting either.

Instead, it is much more interesting to explore the various mental states of the people involved. We can assume that somewhere along the chain, someone must understand that these ARE lies... but is that a safe assumption? We know that the people repeating the lies aren't applying any rational or critical thinking when they are presented with these make-believe "facts"... but how can they manage to hold jobs and dress themselves, and still fall for this nonsense?

There are a lot of really intriguing things to explore here.:)
Click to expand...


I can’t help wondering how much difference there is between a fundamentalist who insists on things which are easily and repeatedly proven wrong, and brain-washed cultists.

ETA: And hey, did the forum clock update to the old end of DST, or is something paranormal going on in the temporal dimension?
 
Last edited:
Ryan O'Dine said:
I can’t help wondering how much difference there is between a fundamentalist who insists on things which are easily and repeatedly proven wrong, and brain-washed cultists.

ETA: And hey, did the forum clock update to the old end of DST, or is something paranormal going on in the temporal dimension?
Click to expand...

Why would you assume that there's any real difference at all?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom