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Tags final cut , 911 conspiracy theory , lcfc , loose change

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Old 5th November 2007, 06:27 PM   #1
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UK Review of Final Insult

Over at Rinf. Some wince-worthy moments, like this:

Quote:
Before the screening began, Tim Sparke, executive producer of Loose Change 3, gave us a brief thank you and intro, he welcomed us by saying: “By the end of this, you’re going to be knackered!”.
Perhaps our British friends could inform us as to whether this is a compliment to the film; Dictionary.com says that knackered means "very tired, exhausted", derived from the word "knacker": a man in the pre-automobile days who bought old, tired horses and converted them into glue and other products. While this might seem an appropriate use for septuagenarian Troofers like Peter Dale Scott and David Ray Griffin, it does seem a little extreme.

The reviewer does provide a basic outline of the film, which is appreciated:

Quote:
The ISI, Able Danger, Cynthia McKinney, the intelligence failures, war games, drills etc all feature in the first half of this marathon truth production.
The rumors that LCFC is mostly LIHOP appear to be correct.

I did have to wonder about this part:

Quote:
Lastly the national debt is covered and how it has dramatically increased for no apparent reason.
It's a complete mystery to me, as well; couldn't have anything to do with a war and tax cuts could it?
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:33 PM   #2
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I had no idea David Ray Griffin was that old. Weird.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:35 PM   #3
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Wow. He took a left turn at Zeitgeist and just kept on running for this one, it seems like.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:36 PM   #4
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If it's LIHOP that will automatically turn a lot of the Twoofers against Dylan.
Bad move. He had no chance of getting an expanded audience anyway,so he should have stuck with his core audience.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Slayhamlet View Post
I had no idea David Ray Griffin was that old. Weird.
Okay, he's 68. Near septuagenarian!
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If it's LIHOP that will automatically turn a lot of the Twoofers against Dylan.
Bad move. He had no chance of getting an expanded audience anyway,so he should have stuck with his core audience.
I dunno. This could be an easy out for a lot of the MIHOPs who are now realizing their BS is exactly that, and want to back out quietly, without looking bad. The LIHOP, with a LC"FC endorsement, might give them that out.

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Old 5th November 2007, 06:38 PM   #7
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I saw an ad for John McCain on the RINF website.
Whoever in the McCain campaign thought an ad on a kook website would help McCain's Campaign need to be fired,NOW. With help like that,no wonder McCain's presidential bid is falling apart.

Last edited by dudalb; 5th November 2007 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I dunno. This could be an easy out for a lot of the MIHOPs who are now realizing their BS is exactly that, and want to back out quietly, without looking bad. The LIHOP, with a LC"FC endorsement, might give them that out.

TAM
The would be giving the MIHOP'ers a lot more intelligence then I give them credit for.
ANd you are forgetting with what fanatacism Cters cling to their beliefs.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It's a complete mystery to me, as well; couldn't have anything to do with a war and tax cuts could it?
Duh, it's cuz they stoled the gold.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:43 PM   #10
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I believe the correct expression is "da golds".

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Old 5th November 2007, 06:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
“It was also good to see the coverage of the EPA’s lies to the rescue workers when they told them that the air was safe to breathe after the three WTC collapses. This is an issue often sidelined in other films. Loose Change Final Edition includes an interview with John Feal of the Feal Good Foundation (fealgoodfoundation.com) and many other citizens, victims of 9/11 who were betrayed by their government.”
Why is that good, in light of a 9/11 conspiracy flick? What does this have to do with a conspiracy? Appeal to emotion much?
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I dunno. This could be an easy out for a lot of the MIHOPs who are now realizing their BS is exactly that, and want to back out quietly, without looking bad. The LIHOP, with a LC"FC endorsement, might give them that out.

TAM
But to do that don't they have to drop all CD's? including WTC7. They would really need some fancy tap dancing to still include that stuff.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
Why is that good, in light of a 9/11 conspiracy flick? What does this have to do with a conspiracy? Appeal to emotion much?
Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Looks like Avery's desire to make this version "100% airtight" went by the wayside.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Looks like Avery's desire to make this version "100% airtight" went by the wayside.
Unless airtight means sticking your head in a plastic bag, preventing oxygen to reach the brain.

Btw, can't wait for your analysis of The Final Insult
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Over at Rinf. Some wince-worthy moments, like this:



Perhaps our British friends could inform us as to whether this is a compliment to the film; Dictionary.com says that knackered means "very tired, exhausted", derived from the word "knacker": a man in the pre-automobile days who bought old, tired horses and converted them into glue and other products. While this might seem an appropriate use for septuagenarian Troofers like Peter Dale Scott and David Ray Griffin, it does seem a little extreme.
Knackered does infact mean 'tired.' However, in this context, it means; overwhelmed.

Regarding the review:
It seems to me that LCFC is attemping to simply poke holes and find inconsistancies - refraining from offering actual answers. That is, answers that can be debunked. See LC2.
Is it wrong to assume that the film will be filled with:
"Isn't that weird?"
"Can you believe that?"
"What are the chances?"
instead of offering alternative, workable solutions?

Maybe i'm wrong.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:56 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I saw an ad for John McCain on the RINF website.
Whoever in the McCain campaign thought an ad on a kook website would help McCain's Campaign need to be fired,NOW. With help like that,no wonder McCain's presidential bid is falling apart.
You will see ads for all the candidates in the weirdest places; at times I've even seen ads for McCain at the Looser Forum (if you can imagine, given that he wrote the intro to the Popular Mechanics book). It has to do with the nature of internet advertising and not some decision by the campaign that this would be a good site for his message.

McCain's campaign is in trouble because of the immigration bill; he got hammered on that issue among conservatives and is only now starting to recover.

Full disclosure: I have personally endorsed John McCain for President.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
But to do that don't they have to drop all CD's? including WTC7. They would really need some fancy tap dancing to still include that stuff.
Most MIHOPers have gone too far down the road to turn back,frankly.
And it might be that although Dylan added some more LIHOP material,all the MIHOP crap is still there.
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Old 5th November 2007, 06:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You will see ads for all the candidates in the weirdest places; at times I've even seen ads for McCain at the Looser Forum (if you can imagine, given that he wrote the intro to the Popular Mechanics book). It has to do with the nature of internet advertising and not some decision by the campaign that this would be a good site for his message.

McCain's campaign is in trouble because of the immigration bill; he got hammered on that issue among conservatives and is only now starting to recover.

Full disclosure: I have personally endorsed John McCain for President.
I like McCain, but was shocked to see his ad on that website.
If that is the nature of Internet Advertising,I have got to think a lot of money is sent down the bunghole .
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Old 5th November 2007, 07:06 PM   #19
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I wouldn't be too hard on McCain's PR people. Most Web advertising these days is sold as a block to an advertiser, and then sites link to the advertising site's ad banner (like Google Ads for instance.) The site has little say over what ads they end up displaying and those the ads are for have little say over what sites run their ads. (and a quick check does show that Rinf is indeed using Google Ads.)
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Old 5th November 2007, 07:25 PM   #20
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You learn something everyday.
But it still seems like a wasteful way to use ad money,in a totally untargeted approach.
Not to mention it might produce some embarassament in a political context.
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Old 5th November 2007, 07:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe. Looks like Avery's desire to make this version "100% airtight" went by the wayside.
Quote:
In a series of public statements issued after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) assured the people of New York that the air around ground zero was safe to breathe.
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_int...pollution.html
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Old 5th November 2007, 07:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You learn something everyday.
But it still seems like a wasteful way to use ad money,in a totally untargeted approach.
Not to mention it might produce some embarassament in a political context.
Not really, you only pay per click so the shotgun effect of getting it on numerous sites is quite cost effective. There is the possible embarassment factor, but of course you still have cover in that you have no control over what site the ad displays on because it is determined by a random generator that is slanted for the User's IP country and phrases taken from the page they are viewing.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Well, it's also completely false. No one said the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe.
No one except the EPA. Will you admit you're wrong? The house is laying 8:1 that you won't.

A September 18, 2001 press release was even more confident, quoting then-EPA Administrator Christine Todd Whitman: "Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, DC that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/ground-zero-air-pollution.html

That finding is included in a report released Friday by the Office of the Inspector General of the EPA. It noted that some of the agency's news releases in the weeks after the attack were softened before being released to the public: Reassuring information was added, while cautionary information was deleted.

"When the EPA made a September 18 announcement that the air was 'safe' to breathe, it did not have sufficient data and analyses to make such a blanket statement," the report says.

Published on Saturday, August 23, 2003 by the Long Island, NY Newsday
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
You beat me to it! That's what I get for not scrolling through the thread.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:36 PM   #25
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Wait, he is going to mention Able Danger and ISI?

You're making my job much easier Dylan. It's bad enough you choose poorly supported theories to begin with, but it contradicts what your entire movement believes in!

So now you're admitting there were hijackers?
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
You beat me to it! That's what I get for not scrolling through the thread.
I wonder if gravy will admit he is wrong on this.

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
Wait, he is going to mention Able Danger and ISI?

You're making my job much easier Dylan. It's bad enough you choose poorly supported theories to begin with, but it contradicts what your entire movement believes in!

So now you're admitting there were hijackers?
Good luck debunking this film. You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:42 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
I wonder if gravy will admit he is wrong on this.

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.
Actually we're more like "since when did the air quality prove bombs were planted in the towers and the Flight 93 phonecalls were fake?"

Because whenever we do question the 9/11 deniers theories, they always jump back into the EPA issue and using the first responders as human shields. Pretty disgusting tactic.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
I wonder if gravy will admit he is wrong on this.

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.
The house doesn't think so and there's no action so far. 8:1 might be too low.

Originally Posted by Cheers View Post

I don't understand why debunkers would treat the air quality issue as a conspiracy theory.
Perhaps because it's not a theory, but it is in fact a conspiracy. The White House conspired to cover up the true nature of the air quality:

"The EPA's press releases and public statements after 9/11 were vetted by then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, suggesting that the White House placed politics over science when communicating about ground zero's air quality." http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_int...pollution.html

Now why would they do that?
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
Good luck debunking this film. You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.
Yeah that's true. I guess Dylan is afraid of a challenge. Considering Mark Roberts, the Screw loose change blogspot, and my subtitled video pretty much destroy the credibility of LC, Dylan needs to find a way to protect himself from folks like us. But why would he view us as a threat? Because we would be killing his sales.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:51 PM   #31
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Because we would be killing his sales.
I dunno. As long as Troofers like Ibis, Swing, Cheers/Last Child/etc. exist, I think Do-over Dylan will be doing just fine making money from his blood libel.

There's an idiot born every second.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
Yeah that's true. I guess Dylan is afraid of a challenge. Considering Mark Roberts, the Screw loose change blogspot, and my subtitled video pretty much destroy the credibility of LC, Dylan needs to find a way to protect himself from folks like us. But why would he view us as a threat? Because we would be killing his sales.
Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people.
And about 100 of them showed up to protest at Ground Zero this year.
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:57 PM   #34
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Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people.
They all watched it beginning to end? And what about the debunkers who've watched it multiple times in order to punch massive truck-sized holes in it?

And that's got what to do with SALES?

Let's do some fun math.

If Do-over Dylan and co sell 1,000 DVDs of their blood libel, they make 20,000 dollars. 2,000, they make 40,000.

So they make a ton off the Troofers, but actually only sell the crap to several thousand people.

Hardly a "movement."

Reading comp is fun.

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Old 5th November 2007, 08:58 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
Yeah, you have so destroyed Loose Change. Its only been seen by 50,000,000 people.
Seen by 50 people a million times each, perhaps closer to reality.

Where do they find the time?
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Old 5th November 2007, 08:59 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
And about 100 of them showed up to protest at Ground Zero this year.
Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?
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Old 5th November 2007, 09:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
Good luck debunking this film. You even have to get it illegally or pay for it haha.
Boy, there's a moral dilemma!
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Old 5th November 2007, 09:03 PM   #38
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nice straw man cheers. when are you going to present facts? you've abandoned one thread where we asked your for facts, but look at you. running ot another thread.
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Old 5th November 2007, 09:04 PM   #39
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Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?
Wait, wait, wait.

I thought the entire world should be revolting against the greatest injustice ever perpetrated upon humanity. Ever.

More people marched in Boston's WS victory parade this than in any Troofer rally.

Seems like your "movement" is a bust. Duh.
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Old 5th November 2007, 09:08 PM   #40
332nd
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Originally Posted by Cheers View Post
Ridiculous argument. How many people are against animal cruelty compared to how many people that actually turn up to sabotage hunts etc?
Ridiculous analogy. Animals aren't people, but since you brought it up, how many more people showed up to protest Vick that to demand a new investigation?
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