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Tags debate , controlled demolition , richard gage

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Old 10th November 2007, 01:22 PM   #1
LashL
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Richard Gage to debate CD on Toronto radio show

This could be interesting.

On Monday, November 12 at 11:00 p.m. EST, Richard Gage is scheduled for a two hour debate on the Richard Syrett Show on CFRB radio (1010 on the AM dial).

http://www.cfrb.com/shows/501327

From the CFRB site: A SPECIAL TWO HOUR DEBATE: WERE THE WTC TOWERS BROUGHT DOWN BY CONTROLLED DEMOLITION?

Last edited by LashL; 10th November 2007 at 01:24 PM. Reason: To clarify that the debate is scheduled for 11 PM
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:23 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
This could be interesting.

On Monday, November 12 at 11:00 EST, Richard Gage is scheduled for a two hour debate on the Richard Syrett Show on CFRB radio (1010 on the AM dial).

http://www.cfrb.com/shows/501327

From the CFRB site: A SPECIAL TWO HOUR DEBATE: WERE THE WTC TOWERS BROUGHT DOWN BY CONTROLLED DEMOLITION?

Who is his opponent?
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:28 PM   #3
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I'm just looking at Syrett's "bio" on the CFRB site, and it appears that he may be somewhat of a twoofer, and his show seems to focus on all manner of woo (psychics, mediums, UFOs, etc.)

The CFRB site doesn't mention who Gage's opponent is, but Gage's site indicates that it is Ron Craig, and a post on the 911 blogger site describes Craig as "a member of the International Society of Explosives Engineers".

Last edited by LashL; 10th November 2007 at 01:31 PM. Reason: To add the other woo.
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:32 PM   #4
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If Craig has actual credentials and the host is rational and fair, he should have no problem making Gaghe look stupid.

Seeing what happens when a twoofer has a radio show, that's a big IF.

Please, someone get transcripts or an MP3 up here. This has to be interesting.
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
If Craig has actual credentials and the host is rational and fair, he should have no problem making Gaghe look stupid.
Ya, right... whatever...


Last edited by bofors; 10th November 2007 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:44 PM   #6
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Ron Craig seems to have an interesting background.


http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/126016


Quote:
He's a bomb specialist and one of the few civilians who belong to the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators. He's also a licensed Class 1 blaster, qualified firefighter and a Jaws of Life practitioner — not to mention gunsmith, welding instructor and pyrotechnics specialist.

Set someone on fire? No problem. Murder, mayhem, chaos and destruction is the name of his game.
You see, Craig is, above all, a master of special effects (FX). There's a good chance you've seen his work, which includes more than 80 feature films and 10 television series that include flaming cars, people falling from tall buildings and the rat-a-tat-tat of assault weapons, à la Charles Bronson.
Mr. Craig is also, apparently, involved in the Toronto Film College, which describes him as follows:

Quote:
Ron is an experienced Special Effects Supervisor with over 20 years experience. He has worked on over 85 feature films, 8 television series and numerous commercials. Ron has worked on projects with major studios such as Paramount, HBO, CBS, NBC, and Warner Brothers. Ron is also an experienced instructor, university professor, member of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators, and member of the Society for Explosives Engineers.

Last edited by LashL; 10th November 2007 at 01:51 PM. Reason: To add TFC info
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bofors View Post

Another of your heroes has cold feet. Gage expressed interest in appearing on 'Hardfire,' but it waned after I sent him links to Mark's annihilation of the Loose Change boys and Jim Fetzer. Behind my back, Gage approached my producer and asked him to conduct the interview.
When I explained that 'Hardfire' doesn't exist to help him sell DVDs, he stopped responding.

How do you think you'd fare in a debate with Mark? Sounds like fun, huh?
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Old 10th November 2007, 01:48 PM   #8
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Something tells me they will focus on WTC7. Do not be surprised, when Gage gets in a corner, for him to start changing topics like a truther Uzi.

TAM
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Something tells me they will focus on WTC7. Do not be surprised, when Gage gets in a corner, for him to start changing topics like a truther Uzi.

TAM
Which is exactly why I think that a lot of woo gets spread through the failure of moderators to maintain control over their venues. Letting Gage tap dance will just cloud the issue.
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Something tells me they will focus on WTC7. Do not be surprised, when Gage gets in a corner, for him to start changing topics like a truther Uzi.

TAM
Or, it could be a complete set-up disguised as a "debate".

I'm just thinking out loud here but Ron Craig is, apparently, a special effects expert. I don't see anything about him online that indicates he has had any prior involvement with debunking the troof movement's fantasies, or anything in which he has stated any position about the events of 9/11.

I can envision it unfolding not as a debate, but as an opportunity for the twoofers to have a special effects guy say, "sure, the whole thing could have been a pyrotechnics display".

Anyone else ever hear anything about Mr. Craig or know anything more about him?

Last edited by LashL; 10th November 2007 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:11 PM   #11
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I'd love to hear the folks at implosion world have a fun go at nutter Gage.

Here's an oldie but goodie.

http://www.implosionworld.com/Articl...09-8-06%20.pdf

Originally Posted by bofors View Post
Ya, right... whatever...
Sorry, it's not quite on par with real time voice morphing technology.....
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:12 PM   #12
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LashL:

You may be on to something there. Getting a paper debater on board for the set up, followed by the "you know you guys may be on to something, maybe building 7 was a controlled demolition" from the supposed opposition. Only time will tell.

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Old 10th November 2007, 02:13 PM   #13
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Here is a start...

http://www.torontofilmcollege.ca/Eng...=23&Submenu2=5

At this link is his email, and a brief Bio.

TAM

Last edited by T.A.M.; 10th November 2007 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:18 PM   #14
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His credentials look pretty good to me.

Gage has nothing in his quiver to counter those credentials.
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by pomeroo View Post
Who is his opponent?
His five year old son ?
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:19 PM   #16
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The guy seems legit...

From a conference webpage (cached)

Quote:
Ron Craig
Ryerson University, Canadian Film College


Using Special Effects Materials To Detonate IEDs and Create Incendiary Devices


Provides detail on special effects devices and other commonly used materials that can be used to create deadly IEDs. Pictures, video and footage of these devices, as they are initiated, will be used to show EOD officers how these devices operate. Actual X-Rays of the initiating devices will be shown so participants can identify the materials if they encounter them.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...nk&cd=17&gl=ca

TAM
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:27 PM   #17
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Oh, I am not questioning Mr. Craig's credentials. I'm just naturally suspicious, and naturally skeptical about Gage purporting to debate him and I try to always consider alternative motives, particularly when the host of the debate appears to be into all manner of woo. Given that Mr. Craig is also a special effects expert, I can see how that might play into the truthers' agenda.

In any event, I plan on tuning in on Monday night.

Last edited by LashL; 10th November 2007 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:30 PM   #18
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Generally if a special FX guy is talking about 9/11 it means it's a twoofer. Because that's what the consider to be a demolition expert, a special effects person. So I am skeptical.
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Old 10th November 2007, 02:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
Generally if a special FX guy is talking about 9/11 it means it's a twoofer. Because that's what the consider to be a demolition expert, a special effects person. So I am skeptical.
While you MAY be right, I do believe the guys from MythBusters are special effects guys also...

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Old 10th November 2007, 03:19 PM   #20
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It appears that Mr. Craig is fully qualified to demolish Gage. Whether he chooses to do so is another matter entirely.
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Old 10th November 2007, 05:05 PM   #21
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Maybe I'm too cynical, but when a guy who normally refuses to debate agrees to a debate, I start to wonder about his opponent.
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Old 10th November 2007, 05:18 PM   #22
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I'm not holding out much hope; the previous show on the website is:

Quote:
NOVEMBER 8TH, 2007
11PM Illusionist Criss Angel says ALL PSYCHICS AND MEDIUMS ARE FAKES? GUEST: Anthony Carr, THE MAN WHO PREDICTED 9/11, and "The World's Most Documented Psychic!"
Carr is actually "The World's Most Self-aggrandizing Phoney". I don't see him appearing on a show that actually asked him anything but fawning questions.

However, I will listen on Monday, if only for a few minutes.
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Old 10th November 2007, 06:09 PM   #23
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I've heard Richard Syrett before. Full-fledged twoofer.

I wonder if they'll be taking phone calls.
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Old 10th November 2007, 06:50 PM   #24
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Gage really talks very little about architectural matters; I imagine he'll start throwing around the bull about "eight hijackers are still alive" and "Atta lived with a stripper and snorted coke."

He's due here in early December. I am looking forward to asking him a few pointed questions.
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Old 10th November 2007, 10:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
It appears that Mr. Craig is fully qualified to demolish Gage. Whether he chooses to do so is another matter entirely.
Yes, as I said above, I do not have any reason to doubt Mr. Craig's credentials. I am, however, naturally suspicious and naturally skeptical about Gage agreeing to, and promoting, this "debate", particularly in light of the fact that Gage is so afraid of legitimate debate that he forbids it on his own forum. That this is scheduled to occur late at night on a radio show hosted by a full blown woo woo does nothing to ameliorate my suspicion.

I can't help but consider the possibility that this could be something crafted by Gage and the woo woo host in order to get the FX expert to say something along the lines of, "Yes, I could create special effects that look like that," so that twoofers can then say, "See? An FX expert says that it was all special effects!!!111eleventy!!11".

Mr. Craig is an unknown quantity at the moment, so it is impossible to ascertain what his role in this might be. I wonder if he knows about the Twoof Movement and if he knows that Gage is a liar and a fraud. I wonder if he knows how intellectually dishonest Gage is and if he is prepared for the Tinhat Two-Step. I wonder if he knows what to expect, and I wonder if he is being set up to be sandbagged and quote-mined by the Twoof Movement.

I guess we'll find out on Monday night.

Originally Posted by pomeroo View Post
Maybe I'm too cynical, but when a guy who normally refuses to debate agrees to a debate, I start to wonder about his opponent.
It's not cynical to be suspicious of a guy like Gage, who actively avoids debate at all costs, suddenly agreeing to and promoting a debate. I'm not sure that it necessarily reflects badly on his opponent, though - like I said above, the whole thing could be a set up by Gage and the woo woo host to sandbag the opponent. We don't know enough about Mr. Craig at this point to tell. It might be worth dropping an email to Mr. Craig, though, to find out more.

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I'm not holding out much hope; the previous show on the website is...
Yes, it is apparent that the host is a complete woo woo. Gage is an intellectually dishonest coward who never strays far from the warmth and comfort of his fellow lunatics, so it is not surprising that he's only willing to "debate" on a radio show hosted by a woo. Still, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Originally Posted by CHF View Post
I've heard Richard Syrett before. Full-fledged twoofer. I wonder if they'll be taking phone calls.
I had never heard of Syrett until today, but yes, it's apparent from his bio and the radio station link above that he's a full blown woo.

And I sure hope that they'll be taking phone calls on Monday night.

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Old 11th November 2007, 01:00 AM   #26
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Craig has credential in blasting, EOD and fire fighting. He should be able to tell them what does or does not look like FX and what could not be done.

For instance, he would know that you cannot produce that kind of fireballs without a lot of real fuel hidden in the building, and it would have been noticeable in occupied office space.

Perhaps Gage is underestimating Craig's intelligence or ability to withstand a brow-beating. With a fire fighting background, I don't think Craig is going to take kindly to any suggestion that you could slip evidence of CD past experienced first responders.

Kevin Ryan did appear to me to be trying to bully Shermer, and I don't think Shermer came back hard enough at him. Maybe Shermer is just too much a gentleman. I don't think that the personality type that would go into explosives is the kind that a dope like Gage should want to push arround.
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Old 11th November 2007, 02:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Kevin Ryan did appear to me to be trying to bully Shermer, and I don't think Shermer came back hard enough at him. Maybe Shermer is just too much a gentleman. I don't think that the personality type that would go into explosives is the kind that a dope like Gage should want to push arround.
Shermer's problem is that he doesn't know enough of the minutiae that the Troofers like to cite and so he doesn't know how to respond except to cite generalities when they get into the really arcane stuff.

Gage will not limit himself to architectural matters. He is not debating in front of a bunch of architects. Watch his video sometime; it's Loose Change with an "I design steel buildings all the time" overlay. It's quite possible that he brings less real expertise to bear on 9-11 questions than Steven Jones. And yes, that is an insult.
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Old 11th November 2007, 09:40 AM   #28
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Gage is the world's lamest appeal to authority. He has done absolutely no new research or analysis. Watch the new video on 911 blogger, about all he does is play clips from 911 Mysteries. I am surprised he doesn't bring up clunkity-clunk.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:16 PM   #29
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This Ron Craig guy is good.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:25 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
This Ron Craig guy is good.

Oh, yes, he is. He's ripping Gage a new one.

Last edited by LashL; 12th November 2007 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:28 PM   #31
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Just tuned in. Craig is kicking his ass.

I like how before the commercial break Gage said he couldn't explain the "squibs" because he's not an explosives expert. Gee, I wonder where he could find one of those?

OMG, Hoffman now on, claiming that the tower collapses became more symmetrical as they progressed. What. A. Moron.

Craig: "What we have is a plate of spaghetti there."

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Old 12th November 2007, 10:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Just tuned in. Craig is kicking his ass.
He sure is. Fully, completely.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:39 PM   #33
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"Pyroclastic dust clouds", same old ridiculous crap from Hoffman.

eta: Oops, that was Gage, figures.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:41 PM   #34
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Gage:

Pyroclastic flows. "The smoke enfolds itself because of all the incredible heat."

Puffs of smoke at top of damaged area of WTC 7. "Can only be squibs or explosives."

Steel broken up into shipment-sized pieces.

Symmetrical collapse at freefall speed.

Gage reminds me alot of Fetzer. Like a fire hydrant spewing wrong.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:43 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Steel broken up into shipment-sized pieces.
We are efficient here at the NWO.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:44 PM   #36
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Hilarious that Gage needed backup from the nutcase Hoffman... Even after he went off on the usual tangents, Craig is cool and calm and describes Hoffman's diatribe, accurately, as a "plate of spaghetti" and talks about the twoofers' "red herrings" - like using a lawn mower instead of ... "



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Old 12th November 2007, 10:45 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
We are efficient here at the NWO.
I tell ya it was hard delivering the 1360-foot columns to the site!
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:47 PM   #38
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Perhaps someone should invite Mr. Craig to participate on this forum.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:50 PM   #39
Gravy
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Gage on BBC announcing collapse of WTC 7 prematurely: "They must have had a script!" [double laughing dog!]

Craig handled Silverstein issue concisely and well.
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What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

Last edited by Gravy; 12th November 2007 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 12th November 2007, 10:52 PM   #40
LashL
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He did, indeed.
Now, they say they're going to take calls before summing up... I'm listening for the phone number - none forthcoming so far.
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