Hey wanna be a human guinea pig? No better not get hurt then.
Fake blood
Anyone think this is ok that we start using people for lab rats now?
Fake blood
Anyone think this is ok that we start using people for lab rats now?
Artificial Blood Experiment Hits 27 U.S. Cities
- Thread starter SBrown
- Start date
Oberservation bias. The patients selected for this treatment would in most cases be too far gone to give informed consent for a tetnus shot, no less this medical procedure. If there is evidence that the agencies involved in this clinical trial are purposefully withholding the oppurtunity for informed consent from the patients gaurdian, then I would have a problem - but it would not be with the concept of artificial blood.
This procedure breaks no new ground from the aspect of standard of care since implied consent exists in all cases at the discretion of the attending physician or agency for any immediate life-saving treatment. Those TV dramas where the doctor lets Little Sally die becuase no-one could be found to sign a form are pure fiction.
This procedure breaks no new ground from the aspect of standard of care since implied consent exists in all cases at the discretion of the attending physician or agency for any immediate life-saving treatment. Those TV dramas where the doctor lets Little Sally die becuase no-one could be found to sign a form are pure fiction.
Oh yea, I would be remiss to participate in this thread without reminding people to give blood. It's an everyday chance to make a real difference in someone's life. Summer is the season of peak demand and people still die in the US due to supply shortages.
American Red Cross
Give Life.
American Red Cross
Give Life.
Rob Lister
Unregistered
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- Apr 1, 2004
- Messages
- 8,504
To understand the criteria for participation a little better, please read something a little less "man-bites-dog" oriented...once again, abc news lets us down.
Fact is, you will only receive the treatment if
1) over eighteen
2) critically injured and losing blood
3) being transported via ground to the hospital
Normally, if being transported by ground you would only receive saline solution because a ambulance does not carry whole blood.
Better story here:
http://www.dukemednews.org/news/article.php?id=9141
Fact is, you will only receive the treatment if
1) over eighteen
2) critically injured and losing blood
3) being transported via ground to the hospital
Normally, if being transported by ground you would only receive saline solution because a ambulance does not carry whole blood.
Better story here:
http://www.dukemednews.org/news/article.php?id=9141
Had a brief discussion about this in this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50133&
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
This scares me. I mean, this is how zombies get made!
We're gonna see a plague of zombies soon, you mark my words.
**Goes out to stock up on ammunition and zombie-proof his apartment**
We're gonna see a plague of zombies soon, you mark my words.
**Goes out to stock up on ammunition and zombie-proof his apartment**
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Messages
- 34,354
Hey wanna be a human guinea pig? No better not get hurt then.
Fake blood
Anyone think this is ok that we start using people for lab rats now?
What if the areas using the artificial blood have a net increase in lives saved? At some point they have to decide if it is or isn't a reasonable treatment and then go with it, in this case also monitoring it closely.
When they introduced flouride into the drinking water, when the tooth decay plummeted in that area, other munincipalities couldn't sign up fast enough, even though the year before they had no shortages of hucksers portraying the evil conspiracies to corrupt the Purity Of Essence.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
The important question here, that nobody is addressing, is "What superpowers come with the radioactive science blood?" I volunteer to test the magic blood if it comes with guaranteed superpowers.
RandFan
Mormon Atheist
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Messages
- 60,135
Thanks Rob. Excellent work.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
You go OUT?! I zombie-proofed my house and stocked up on provisions in 1999, and I haven't gone out since.
How is it out there? Anyone still alive?
Cleon
King of the Pod People
Brrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnsssssssssssss...
slingblade
Unregistered
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2005
- Messages
- 23,466
slingblade said:
Geez, didn't you guys get the illuminati memo? fake blood is an explosive that cuts steel. Its just like THERMITE[legalduck stows his sarcasm and runs before Huntsman can beat the living rule8 out of him.] We'll have bunch of walking controlled demo charges in no-time.
Word on the street is that Northfield Labs has just completed final-phase testing. Stock is up about 5% on the rumor.
I've been sitting on 500 shares for months. Average cost around 11.50, so I'll see you suckers north of 18.
If a pharma company even burps something that sounds like "polyheme," make that 28 instead of 18.
I've been sitting on 500 shares for months. Average cost around 11.50, so I'll see you suckers north of 18.
If a pharma company even burps something that sounds like "polyheme," make that 28 instead of 18.
Art Vandelay
Illuminator
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- May 8, 2004
- Messages
- 4,787
Seems like a bunch of hype to me. "Human guinea pig" implies that one has operations done to one which one doesn't need, so that someone else can collect data. These people need some transfusion, so why is saline better? Should they need consent to give them saline?Hey wanna be a human guinea pig? No better not get hurt then.
Fake blood
Anyone think this is ok that we start using people for lab rats now?
The whole thing is a crock and everyone (except ABC and the Wall Street Journal) knows it. This kind of trial was established by the FDA in 1993 (or '96? I forget) and it's perfectly legal.
Typical scenario: You're some dolt who crossed against the light. Or maybe an idiot who doesn't like it when motorcycle helmets muss your hair. However you got there, you're lying in the street, probably unconscious, certainly in shock. You've lost a lot of blood, and buddy, chances are you are a-gonna die before you make it to the hospital.
Ambulance arrives. EMTs assess you and see you've lost almost half your blood. The only thing they can do is adminster saline, which only helps keep your pressure up. Your brain is still starving to death for lack of oxygen, because ambulances can't carry blood. Plus, they can't type you since your skull is cracked open and you're not particularly responsive to basic medical questions.
Polyheme carries oxygen. Polyheme keeps your pressure up. Polyheme can be given to anyone regardless of blood type. Polyheme has a long shelf life and easier storage requirements than blood. Polyheme is manufactured, not harvested like real blood, so you won't bleed to death on the street just because a hurricane a thousand miles away has drained every blood bank in the area.
In short, this whole hullaballoo is nothing more than idiotic panic and hysteria. I'm sure no one was hot in the idea of eating bread mold, either, but I think pennicilin has more than atoned for whatever ill effects its testing caused.
ETA: Full disclosure, I am a shareholder, so take it with a grain of salt or a bag of sailine. Your choice.
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Saline has been tested (I assume) this hasn't. The problem is that you're making an experiment on people without their consent. However as people have pointed out it might be difficult to imposible to establish a test with consent, so if there's good reason to suspect it's better than saline I'm OK with it .
Art Vandelay
Illuminator
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- May 8, 2004
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- 4,787
Bit of a catch-22, isn't it? I'm sure it's been given preliminary tests.
The point that I was trying to get to wa that "eperiment" has rather strong connotations. It brings up images unnecessary surgery, etc. If patients were given just saline without their concent, would that be okay? If they were given just polyheme without their consent, would that be okay? Is it just the fact that they could be given either that bothers people?
Not neccesarilly, the issue is that it hasn't been probably tested. With cancer treatment you can often just tell people that "we have this new experimental treatment which might cure you or might kill you even faster, wanna give it a try?" (and then of course make the test double blind). This option presumably isn't open in this case though so you could say that is a catch 22.
Not to me it doesn't, I don't think "experiment" implies mad science, simply that we haven't echastively tested the product before.
The difference is obviously as I said that Saline presumably has been proven to be superior to now treatment, while polyheme presumably hasn't been proven to be superior to Saline. AS I also said I don't oppose this experiment if it's the informed opinion of qualified doctors that it will be an improvement over saline, but the difference between the two cases is obvious.