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-   -   Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359834)

kookbreaker 17th May 2023 05:10 AM

The GOP has been drooling over the prospect of putting up a state constitution amendment restricting abortion in PA. They presently control the state senate but we’re drooling over taking the house as well as two special elections took place for house seats. One was a lock for the GOP, but the other was in Delaware County, which switched over to Democrat less than 5 years ago.

The resources poured into this election were impressive from both sides for what is a minor seat. But the local Dems did not want to be playing the New York State Dem’s lazy games. The Democrats ran on the idea that the GOP would try to restrict abortion if they won and not too much else.

The GOP candidate, while well supported, was playing defense poorly. Literally one of their ads was “aww no…if we win we won’t try to restrict abortion ‘cause the Democratic governor would veto us!”. Not a convincing argument when they tried multiple time to restrict abortion with the previous democratic governor even before RvW was overturned.

The GOP gave up this tactic in the last two weeks and just tried to run on law and order nonsense they love so much.

Even at the end nothing on the GOP candidates ads, placards, signs, and whatnot mentioned she was a GOP candidate.

smartcooky 17th May 2023 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage72 (Post 14073236)
Y'all-qaeda performs an honor killing in Texas.

Texas woman killed by boyfriend after she got an abortion

A pro-lifer then!

Segnosaur 17th May 2023 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 14074220)
Quote:

Y'all-qaeda performs an honor killing in Texas.

Texas woman killed by boyfriend after she got an abortion
A pro-lifer then!

Well, she won't be getting any more abortions and killing any more of her babies then.

:boxedin:

catsmate 18th May 2023 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 14074245)
Well, she won't be getting any more abortions and killing any more of her babies then.

:boxedin:

I wonder if the "pro life" party will be supporting his execution?

catsmate 21st May 2023 02:17 AM

The story of Baby Milo.

Last November a Florida couple discovered that their baby had a fatal fetal abnormality, but they were denied an abortion in accordance with DeSantis's appeal to the misogynistic godbotherers.
Deborah Dobert was forced to carry the pregnancy to 37 weeks. Their baby lived for 99 minutes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...borah-dorbert/

But heh, a win for the "pro-lifers".
:rolleyes:

Stacyhs 21st May 2023 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14076649)
The story of Baby Milo.

Last November a Florida couple discovered that their baby had a fatal fetal abnormality, but they were denied an abortion in accordance with DeSantis's appeal to the misogynistic godbotherers.
Deborah Dobert was forced to carry the pregnancy to 37 weeks. Their baby lived for 99 minutes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...borah-dorbert/

But heh, a win for the "pro-lifers".
:rolleyes:

I'm surprised Dorbert didn't go to another state for an abortion. I can't imagine feeling a baby grow inside me for 3 months knowing it was going to die soon after birth.

catsmate 21st May 2023 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14076813)
I'm surprised Dorbert didn't go to another state for an abortion. I can't imagine feeling a baby grow inside me for 3 months knowing it was going to die soon after birth.

Apparently the cost was too much.

Comment from Florida state Rep Jenna Persons-Mulicka, co-sponsor of fifteen week abortion ban:
Quote:

The intent of the law is quite clear. We are providing mothers with the resources they need to raise healthy children, empowering doctors to help their patients make informed decisions, and shifting the conversation to valuing life.
Her co-sponsor, Erin Grall, is refusing to comment.

BTW the newer law is even more restrictive,

Stacyhs 21st May 2023 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14076912)
Apparently the cost was too much.

Yes, I did some checking and the couple said they didn't have the money to travel out of state. As predicted, these draconian laws will affect the poor the most and the more well-to-do can go out of state.


Quote:

Comment from Florida state Rep Jenna Persons-Mulicka, co-sponsor of fifteen week abortion ban:

Quote:

Quote:
The intent of the law is quite clear. We are providing mothers with the resources they need to raise healthy children, empowering doctors to help their patients make informed decisions, and shifting the conversation to valuing life.
Her co-sponsor, Erin Grall, is refusing to comment.

BTW the newer law is even more restrictive,
What a load of complete and utter crap.

catsmate 21st May 2023 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14076937)
Yes, I did some checking and the couple said they didn't have the money to travel out of state. As predicted, these draconian laws will affect the poor the most and the more well-to-do can go out of state.




What a load of complete and utter crap.

Indeed, but the dumb and the deplorable lap up such lies.

ponderingturtle 22nd May 2023 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14076937)
Yes, I did some checking and the couple said they didn't have the money to travel out of state. As predicted, these draconian laws will affect the poor the most and the more well-to-do can go out of state.




What a load of complete and utter crap.

Nor at all. The cruelty is the point.

cosmicaug 26th May 2023 07:22 AM

This is despicable!

From https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/25/caitlin-bernard-indiana-abortion-rape-victim/

Quote:

Indiana’s medical licensing board will determine as soon as Thursday whether to take any disciplinary action against a doctor who made headlines last year for performing an abortion for a 10-year-old Ohio rape victim, after the state’s antiabortion attorney general alleged the doctor violated ethical standards and state reporting laws.
Indiana’s Republican Attorney General Todd Rokita for nearly a year has pursued punishment for Caitlin Bernard, an OB/GYN and an assistant professor at the Indiana University School of Medicine who performed the abortion in June 2022, less than a week after Roe v. Wade was struck down, enacting trigger laws.
The stakes of Thursday’s hearing are significant for Bernard, whose lawyers have refuted Rokita’s allegations as baseless and politically motivated. The seven-member board of governor appointees can, by a majority vote, either take no action against Bernard or impose a range of disciplinary measures up to and including the immediate termination of Bernard’s medical license.




Update from https://twitter.com/AliceOllstein/status/1662083204608557059:
Quote:

From UPDATE: The board did not revoke Bernard's medical license but did fine her $3k and formally reprimanded her for discussing the case with a local reporter. Bernard said she did so (rather than using a hypothetical) to help people the true impact abortion bans were having.

Stacyhs 26th May 2023 05:08 PM

Go Fund Me has raised $612,631 so far in support of Dr. Bernard and other abortion providers. I'd assume that $3K fine will be paid from that fund. :)

slyjoe 27th May 2023 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14081375)
Go Fund Me has raised $612,631 so far in support of Dr. Bernard and other abortion providers. I'd assume that $3K fine will be paid from that fund. :)

Good!

These pissant republicans can't wait to score political points.

What needs to happen is for someone to go after the Indiana School of Medicine. Their OB/GYN docs should go somewhere else, and get the school decertified. There should be consequences.

smartcooky 27th May 2023 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyjoe (Post 14081688)
Good!

These pissant republicans can't wait to score political points.

What needs to happen is for someone to go after the Indiana School of Medicine. Their OB/GYN docs should go somewhere else, and get the school decertified. There should be consequences.

Some consequences are already happening...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-applications/
"States that have enacted abortion bans saw a 10.5 percent drop in applicants for obstetrics and gynecology residencies in 2023 from the previous year, according to new data from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

That decline carries a potential long-term impact on the availability of doctors to care for pregnant people and deliver babies across a large swath of the South and Midwest because medical residents often choose to stay and work where they trained."
https://truthout.org/articles/76-per...ricted-states/

An early indication of that impending medical “brain drain” came in February, when 76% of respondents in a survey of more than 2,000 current and future physicians said they would not even apply to work or train in states with abortion restrictions. “In other words,” wrote the study’s authors in an accompanying article, “many qualified candidates would no longer even consider working or training in more than half of U.S. states.”


Meanwhile demand for OB/GYN's in those remaining civilized states nearby, will increase, so there are likely to be plenty of positions available for ay who want to leave their state.

Stacyhs 27th May 2023 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 14081941)
Some consequences are already happening...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-applications/
"States that have enacted abortion bans saw a 10.5 percent drop in applicants for obstetrics and gynecology residencies in 2023 from the previous year, according to new data from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

That decline carries a potential long-term impact on the availability of doctors to care for pregnant people and deliver babies across a large swath of the South and Midwest because medical residents often choose to stay and work where they trained."
https://truthout.org/articles/76-per...ricted-states/

An early indication of that impending medical “brain drain” came in February, when 76% of respondents in a survey of more than 2,000 current and future physicians said they would not even apply to work or train in states with abortion restrictions. “In other words,” wrote the study’s authors in an accompanying article, “many qualified candidates would no longer even consider working or training in more than half of U.S. states.”


Meanwhile demand for OB/GYN's in those remaining civilized states nearby, will increase, so there are likely to be plenty of positions available for ay who want to leave their state.

I think OB/GYNs fleeing these extremist states was very predictable. What doctor, even if personally anti-choice, wants to live in fear of being prosecuted for a medical decision s/he felt was necessary?

As the saying goes, "Don't cut off your own nose to spite your face."

catsmate 28th May 2023 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 14081941)
Some consequences are already happening...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-applications/
"States that have enacted abortion bans saw a 10.5 percent drop in applicants for obstetrics and gynecology residencies in 2023 from the previous year, according to new data from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

That decline carries a potential long-term impact on the availability of doctors to care for pregnant people and deliver babies across a large swath of the South and Midwest because medical residents often choose to stay and work where they trained."
https://truthout.org/articles/76-per...ricted-states/

An early indication of that impending medical “brain drain” came in February, when 76% of respondents in a survey of more than 2,000 current and future physicians said they would not even apply to work or train in states with abortion restrictions. “In other words,” wrote the study’s authors in an accompanying article, “many qualified candidates would no longer even consider working or training in more than half of U.S. states.”


Meanwhile demand for OB/GYN's in those remaining civilized states nearby, will increase, so there are likely to be plenty of positions available for ay who want to leave their state.

I wonder what effect this will have on the already dreadful USAian maternal mortality rate.

cosmicaug 28th May 2023 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14081375)
Go Fund Me has raised $612,631 so far in support of Dr. Bernard and other abortion providers. I'd assume that $3K fine will be paid from that fund. :)

Note that we had a couple of posters here absolutely certain that the report of this abortion was describing a fictional case because no one could find enough information about this to verify it (though they were merely parroting what their betters in the right wing media space were telling them to think).

Note that the pretext for fining this doctor was that a privacy violation had taken place when the doctor talked to some member of the press about this abortion.

Note that the two things cannot be true simultaneously. Either one is true or the other is true; but both cannot be true (if no one had enough information to definitively validate this case it implies that the information was effectively anonymized enough that no privacy violation could be considered to have occurred).

This prosecution was both malicious and not supported by the facts.

Darat 28th May 2023 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14082171)
I wonder what effect this will have on the already dreadful USAian maternal mortality rate.

It is in god's hands.

cosmicaug 28th May 2023 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14081954)
I think OB/GYNs fleeing these extremist states was very predictable. What doctor, even if personally anti-choice, wants to live in fear of being prosecuted for a medical decision s/he felt was necessary?

As the saying goes, "Don't cut off your own nose to spite your face."

Assuming continuation of current trends, this does not only apply to OB/GYNs. Doctors have medical needs too. These decisions affect doctors who may choose to settle in a given state both as providers of medical services as well as consumers of medical services.

Of course, this is not peculiar to health services providers. This applies to government facilities (such as where to build new military facilities, because these state level restrictions have the potential to affect military readiness) or just to where any major private sector company may choose to place new facilities (such as Disney reconsidering a plan to move an Imagineering team, involving as many as 2,000 employees, off to a new, billion-dollar Orlando campus —clearly the abortion restrictions, as well as other unrelated policies pushed by the Florida GOP all push the scale in the decision making process against investment in Florida).

This is likely to become a generalized brain drain away from "red states" that has the potential of turning them into "ѕḣіtḣοⅼе states". If taken to its logical extreme, the only way they'll be able to remain a little bit attractive to businesses is if the local economies decline enough that they become competitive with developing countries as a source of cheap labor (specially as environmental standards are allowed to decline with recent SCOTUS decisions reducing the regulatory scope of federal agencies like the EPA to make "the cost of doing business" cheaper —if at the expense of quality of life).

catsmate 28th May 2023 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 14082212)
It is in god's hands.

There are two women sharing the sofa with me who differ in that.

Aridas 28th May 2023 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 14082234)
This is likely to become a generalized brain drain away from "red states" that has the potential of turning them into "ѕḣіtḣοⅼе states". If taken to its logical extreme, the only way they'll be able to remain a little bit attractive to businesses is if the local economies decline enough that they become competitive with developing countries as a source of cheap labor (specially as environmental standards are allowed to decline with recent SCOTUS decisions reducing the regulatory scope of federal agencies like the EPA to make "the cost of doing business" cheaper —if at the expense of quality of life).

For what it's worth, I was under the impression that such a generalized brain drain has been ongoing for a while. For all that some right-wingers like to crow about how some of the populous blue states are experiencing net total population loss, there's still an influx of the educated and successful and it's the right wingers that are largely running away. Red states have frequently been trying to counter the losses with, for example, relaxed business taxes and regulations. Most darkly said, they're trying to steal business from the bluer parts of the country to incentivize/coerce talent to live there.

Slightly tangentially, there's also a general perspective difference at hand. Republican tactics and policies seem to generally seeks to treat (most) humans as disposable tools, with all that that entails. That's good for business that find advantage in exploiting those working in lower skill requirement positions. Democrat tactics and policies generally seek to treat humans as people. That's more attractive for the people who work in jobs requiring higher skilled and more educated workers.

smartcooky 28th May 2023 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14082171)
I wonder what effect this will have on the already dreadful USAian maternal mortality rate.

Yeah. at 21 per 100k, its twice that of UK & Canada, three times that of NZ and seven times that of Australia. For the "greatest country in the world", that is shameful.

Across the board within the US, states with abortion bans (i.e. states with dominant Republican legislatures) already have higher maternal mortality rates than blue states, and logically, as those doctors with the specialist skills to deal with pregnancy and birth related complications leave Red state, or decide not to train in those states, it is only going to get worse - the maternal mortality rates are bound to increase in Red states

https://missouriindependent.com/2022...rtality-rates/

Its similar for birth mortality rates.

https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-hig...-care-spending

"Of all countries in 2020, the United States possessed the highest infant mortality rate at 5.4 deaths per 1000 live births, which is markedly higher than the 1.6 deaths per 1000 live births in Norway, which has the the lowest mortality rate.

US maternal mortality in 2020 was over 3 times the rate in most of the other high-income countries, with almost 24 (23.8) maternal deaths for every 100,000 live births."


Republican politicians' attempts to force women with unwanted pregnancies to term will also almost certainly result in the loss of babies in pregnancies where the woman wants the child. The irony of this situation would be comical if it wasn't so tragic.

Regnad Kcin 28th May 2023 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14082255)
There are two women sharing the sofa with me...

Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!

Planigale 29th May 2023 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 14081941)
Some consequences are already happening...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-applications/
"States that have enacted abortion bans saw a 10.5 percent drop in applicants for obstetrics and gynecology residencies in 2023 from the previous year, according to new data from the Association of American Medical Colleges.

That decline carries a potential long-term impact on the availability of doctors to care for pregnant people and deliver babies across a large swath of the South and Midwest because medical residents often choose to stay and work where they trained."
https://truthout.org/articles/76-per...ricted-states/

An early indication of that impending medical “brain drain” came in February, when 76% of respondents in a survey of more than 2,000 current and future physicians said they would not even apply to work or train in states with abortion restrictions. “In other words,” wrote the study’s authors in an accompanying article, “many qualified candidates would no longer even consider working or training in more than half of U.S. states.”


Meanwhile demand for OB/GYN's in those remaining civilized states nearby, will increase, so there are likely to be plenty of positions available for ay who want to leave their state.

It might be thought that abortion laws only impact on ob/gyn doctors, but anyone involved with the health care of women may potentially have to advise on termination of pregnancy in reltaion to drug exposure or disease. But every week I will talk to women about the need to avoid pregancy whilst on particular drugs and that we advise termination of pregnancy if they became pregnant on those drugs. Depending on the exact wording of the legislation one might be vulnerable to legal action even if not directly carrying out the termination.

catsmate 29th May 2023 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin (Post 14082608)
Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!

[OT] We've been in a relationship for quite a few years now.

Upchurch 24th June 2023 01:34 PM

It’s the one year anniversary of this BS.

theprestige 24th June 2023 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14074652)
I wonder if the "pro life" party will be supporting his execution?

I've never understood this "argument". It's perfectly consistent to be against the murder of innocents, and for the lawful execution of convicted murderers.

What advantage do you gain from ignoring context and pretending to be stupid?

Aridas 24th June 2023 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 14103600)
I've never understood this "argument". It's perfectly consistent to be against the murder of innocents, and for the lawful execution of convicted murderers.

What advantage do you gain from ignoring context and pretending to be stupid?

As I understand it, the argument is fundamentally mockery of false pretenses. "Pro-life" is utter poppycock when used to describe a group that demonstrably, openly, and actively works to accomplish much the opposite for all age groups and loses nigh all pretense of caring about their lives once the unborn is born. The bit about "pro-lifers" supporting execution is just poking at one of the most direct and brazen symbols of such, rather than the sum total of what's being represented. Much more could be said, I'm sure, but I think that serves as a fairly direct answer to the question asked.

bruto 24th June 2023 02:21 PM

And now, just to keep the mud clear as can be, Pence is calling for a Federal abortion law, presumably as a way to confirm his fine understanding of what a States' rights decision means. At least we can't accuse the Republican party of lacking diversity. It looks like an unusually broad slate of lunatics, idiots and ******** this year.

d4m10n 24th June 2023 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 14103616)
And now, just to keep the mud clear as can be, Pence is calling for a Federal abortion law, presumably as a way to confirm his fine understanding of what a States' rights decision means. At least we can't accuse the Republican party of lacking diversity. It looks like an unusually broad slate of lunatics, idiots and ******** this year.

Have any prominent GOP figures (especially ones with Presidential aspirations) come out in favor of keeping abortion policy at the state level, even after they take back Congress and the WH?

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

The Great Zaganza 24th June 2023 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 14103600)
I've never understood this "argument". It's perfectly consistent to be against the murder of innocents, and for the lawful execution of convicted murderers.

What advantage do you gain from ignoring context and pretending to be stupid?

What about the lawful execution of the innocent?

gnome 24th June 2023 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 14103612)
As I understand it, the argument is fundamentally mockery of false pretenses. "Pro-life" is utter poppycock when used to describe a group that demonstrably, openly, and actively works to accomplish much the opposite for all age groups and loses nigh all pretense of caring about their lives once the unborn is born. The bit about "pro-lifers" supporting execution is just poking at one of the most direct and brazen symbols of such, rather than the sum total of what's being represented. Much more could be said, I'm sure, but I think that serves as a fairly direct answer to the question asked.

I think it's what you'd call a cheap shot, and generally I avoid it because it is easily deflected compared to some of the other things you mentioned.

I think this sums it up well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

Another point that I think is salient is that as I recall, "protect the human life of the fetus" mainly became a thing when it became less popular to say that you wanted to control women's virtue. A noble sounding veneer for what is often shown to be the controlling motive after all, considering in how few other contexts life is valued.

Stacyhs 24th June 2023 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige (Post 14103600)
I've never understood this "argument". It's perfectly consistent to be against the murder of innocents, and for the lawful execution of convicted murderers.

What advantage do you gain from ignoring context and pretending to be stupid?

"Murder of innocents"? I've never understood equating a blob of cells with a living, breathing, cognizant person, but there ya go.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...76b79b6ff7.png

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...76b8ec74cb.jpg

Stacyhs 24th June 2023 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 14103624)
What about the lawful execution of the innocent?

Small price to pay for the ability to kill the guilty. :sarcasm:

According to The Innocence Project:

Quote:

Since 1973, at least 190 people have been exonerated from death row in the U.S., according to the Death Penalty Information Center (DPIC). A 2014 study estimated that at least 4% of those sentenced to death are innocent.

Aridas 24th June 2023 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 14103640)
I think it's what you'd call a cheap shot, and generally I avoid it because it is easily deflected compared to some of the other things you mentioned.

Indeed. I generally don't use it myself for much that reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 14103640)
I think this sums it up well.

Something similar popped to my mind, too, but I was too lazy to try to find it again, so thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 14103640)
Another point that I think is salient is that as I recall, "protect the human life of the fetus" mainly became a thing when it became less popular to say that you wanted to control women's virtue. A noble sounding veneer for what is often shown to be the controlling motive after all, considering in how few other contexts life is valued.

Adding to that, abortion's place in the current political climate was primarily spawned a few years after Roe v. Wade (the issue existed before Roe v. Wade, of course, but the current place in politics is a bit different in multiple ways from then), when Carter threatened the tax exempt status of Religious Right organizations because they were actively politically segregationist and refusing to comply with federal desegregation mandates. A bunch of Religious Right leaders got together and then unanimously started screaming about abortion and working to use it as a political weapon against Democrats. Reagan won their support while campaigning with the implicit promise not to remove their tax exempt statuses despite their violations, not by endorsing anti-abortion, IIRC. It being found to be a useful tactic meant that it has kept on being used and eventually took on a bit of a life of its own.

In short, if one takes a look at and wonders about how utterly lacking the rational case for the forced birth movement actually is, one need look no further than the fact that it's little more than a power flex facade for the sake of discriminating against and suppressing a preferred group (much the same can be said about how it was used by doctors against midwives, really). Protecting the unborn was never the real driving force behind it, however useful the facade was at drawing in useful idiots.

Gulliver Foyle 25th June 2023 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 14103640)
I think it's what you'd call a cheap shot, and generally I avoid it because it is easily deflected compared to some of the other things you mentioned.

I think this sums it up well.



Another point that I think is salient is that as I recall, "protect the human life of the fetus" mainly became a thing when it became less popular to say that you wanted to control women's virtue. A noble sounding veneer for what is often shown to be the controlling motive after all, considering in how few other contexts life is valued.

It's important to keep in mind that the anti-abortion movement only cares about a person's life between conception and birth, the period where a clump of cells is transitioning into a living being. If they were a pro-life movement like they claim they'd be doing lots of things to make life better, like pushing for proper education, including sex and consent, for all; supporting social and cultural programmes to ensure poor peoples' access to further education and proper paying jobs is improved; proper gun control and all the otherstuff that will make the world a better place.

Upchurch 25th June 2023 07:30 AM

Some anti-abortion groups do make attempts at assisting with young child care, but those efforts are either token or come with strings attached, like joining a particular religion.

Gulliver Foyle 25th June 2023 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upchurch (Post 14103926)
Some anti-abortion groups do make attempts at assisting with young child care, but those efforts are either token or come with strings attached, like joining a particular religion.

If you're only making a token effort, you're better off for all concerned by walking away. If your attaching strings to your offer of help, you're not helping but forcing the other person to do your bidding.

Stacyhs 25th June 2023 03:49 PM

Remember when the evil, blood drinking, child trafficking HRC introduced the Home Instruction for Parents of Preschool Youngsters program to Arkansas in 1985? "In HIPPY, as it's called, parents receive free books, educational materials and weekly home visits to coach them on how to get their young children ready for school — for example, by reading to them daily." Arkansas still has one of the largest HIPPY programs. "Teachers report that parents who participate in HIPPY become more involved in their children's educations for years to come. HIPPY seems to blunt the impact on school performance of factors like being an English-language learner. Children who go through the program also seem to have better attendance, behavior, peer interactions and academic self-esteem."

As an attorney, HRC joined a law firm that took on children's rights issues pro bono.
Quote:

In 1977, Hillary co-founded and drew up the articles of incorporation for the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families -- a group that for nearly four decades since has fought for expanded opportunities in early education, juvenile justice reform, increases in state funding for child health care and other major initiatives.

“She was a very forceful advocate to say the least,” recalled Jim Miles, who worked with her to create the group and develop its mission. “I think Arkansas Advocates is one of the nation’s premier child advocacy organization. They have tremendous peer respect.”
Quote:

Hillary became a board member of the Arkansas Children’s Hospital, where she helped establish the state’s first neonatal nursery while she was pregnant with Chelsea. The facility has since expanded several times over.
HRC lead "the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, an entity with the daunting task of reforming the state’s public education system, which was ranked at or near the very bottom of all 50 states in just about every measure."

HRC tried to implement a universal health plan for all but it was defeated by conservative opposition.

I just love it when the anti-choice crowd claims how pro-life and pro-children they are. :rolleyes:

smartcooky 25th June 2023 09:54 PM

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...tive-rcna90784
"Even before the fall of Roe, abortion had been criminalized and disproportionately targeted against people of color. In 2017, Mississippi police charged Latice Fisher after digging into her Google search history and finding that she searched how to “buy Misoprostol Abortion Pill Online.” In August of last year, police used Facebook messages between a mother and her daughter in Nebraska as part of an investigation into an abortion illegal under state law. And this is only the beginning."
"Despite promising to delete location data at abortion clinics, Google continues to retain such data at sensitive locations. Recently, Meta investors voted against a proposal to curb abortion-related data from being shared with law enforcement. "

Does anyone here still think its a good idea to freely "search online for sources or information about abortion using your own devices"?


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