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-   -   Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359834)

ZiprHead 28th August 2023 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14150196)
Let's look at poverty rates to see if your statement holds any weight.

According to your statement Native American Women should have the highest rates of abortions, then Black women followed by Hispanic women, then White women at a proportional rate based on income. However, it's not proportional at all. While the poverty rate of Black women is only 1.7% higher than Hispanic women the abortion rates of Black women was still over twice that of Hispanic. The top poverty rated group of Native American women (28.1%) barely register in abortions as "other". So your "It's all about poverty." argument has failed spectacularly.

Native American men die at a far lower age than all the other ethnic groups. Dead men can't impregnate anyone.

Aridas 28th August 2023 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14150261)
Figures don't lie but liars figure.

I'm really not sure your point.

My point was that reducing poverty will reduce the number of abortions. Not that poverty itself was a cause of abortions. Empowering women is the best method to reduce poverty. Allowing women to be in charge of their own reproductive health is a game changer.

Reducing poverty, increasing the availability of relevant education, removing barriers to contraceptives, and so on are effective ways to reduce abortion rates. Conservatives are the ones acting to make every one of those factors move in the wrong direction for reduced abortions, of course.

Bringing up Native Americans as a objection to rather well established links without any attempt to account for what's actually happening with that group doesn't make for much of an argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZiprHead (Post 14150338)
Native American men die at a far lower age than all the other ethnic groups. Dead men can't impregnate anyone.

This attempt, though, is probably not especially helpful at determining what's actually going on.

Stacyhs 28th August 2023 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14150196)
Let's look at poverty rates to see if your statement holds any weight. From Status of Women Data Org:

"Poverty rates vary considerably among adult women from the largest racial and ethnic groups. Native American women have the highest poverty rate at 28.1 percent, followed by Black (25.7 percent) and Hispanic (24.0 percent) women. The poverty rate for white women is the lowest among the groups shown in Figure 4.4 and is less than half the rate for Native American, black, and Hispanic women (11.7 percent). For each of the largest racial and ethnic groups, women’s poverty rate is higher than men’s; the difference is greatest between Hispanic women and men"


According to your statement Native American Women should have the highest rates of abortions, then Black women followed by Hispanic women, then White women at a proportional rate based on income. However, it's not proportional at all. While the poverty rate of Black women is only 1.7% higher than Hispanic women the abortion rates of Black women was still over twice that of Hispanic. The top poverty rated group of Native American women (28.1%) barely register in abortions as "other". So your "It's all about poverty." argument has failed spectacularly.

Poverty isn't the only factor. Has it occurred to you that most Hispanics are Catholics and are traditionally anti-abortion as they consider it a "moral evil and sin" which the Church condemns and that women who receive one are excommunicated?

"Since abortion is the purposeful murder of an innocent, unborn child, the Church indeed imposes the most severe penalty of excommunication for this heinous action. A person who successfully procures an abortion receives this penalty automatically (Code of Canon Law, #1398). Unlike some offenses that require the competent authority to impose the penalty of excommunication (technically termed ferendae sententiae), the penalty here is automatic (technically termed latae sententia)."

acbytesla 28th August 2023 06:41 PM

I also am suspect of the data especially when it comes to race. This data depends heavily on self reporting. I haven't reported my race on a document in decades.

Aridas 28th August 2023 09:44 PM

Now that I have a little more time - when it comes to Native Americans, specifically, there's probably a few things worth considering before any efforts to dismiss the effects of poverty.

1) Native American is an umbrella category that includes a lot of very different tribes. This messes with many simplifications. For more useful purposes, dealing with individual tribes tends to be needed.

2) There fairly certainly is general cultural backlash to the long lasting genocidal actions taken against Native Americans. I'm speaking of, for example, the mass forced sterilizations. This likely has backlash in that Native Americans will be less likely to abort and that Native Americans and their health providers will be less likely to voluntarily report a lot of information.

3) Native Americans spread knowledge of some cheap and fairly effective means of birth control. Eating a bit of dogbane or stoneseed, for example. It's not a stretch to say that these are likely to still be practiced, reducing the need for abortions.

4) As was touched on before, but should be emphasized further, reporting and statistics issues are likely in play. Skipping over the entirely justified distrust issues, though, and the way they mess with reporting, there's also raw number issues. Native Americans apparently made up less than 3% of the population of the US in 2021. Their abortion totals can easily be treated as something of a side-note just given raw numbers. It's probably also worth noting that Native Americans are generally rather underserved when it comes to health care in general, which means that there's even more challenges in play when it comes to trying to identify what their abortion rates actually are.

TurkeysGhost 29th August 2023 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 14150793)
Now that I have a little more time - when it comes to Native Americans, specifically, there's probably a few things worth considering before any efforts to dismiss the effects of poverty.

1) Native American is an umbrella category that includes a lot of very different tribes. This messes with many simplifications. For more useful purposes, dealing with individual tribes tends to be needed.

2) There fairly certainly is general cultural backlash to the long lasting genocidal actions taken against Native Americans. I'm speaking of, for example, the mass forced sterilizations. This likely has backlash in that Native Americans will be less likely to abort and that Native Americans and their health providers will be less likely to voluntarily report a lot of information.

3) Native Americans spread knowledge of some cheap and fairly effective means of birth control. Eating a bit of dogbane or stoneseed, for example. It's not a stretch to say that these are likely to still be practiced, reducing the need for abortions.

4) As was touched on before, but should be emphasized further, reporting and statistics issues are likely in play. Skipping over the entirely justified distrust issues, though, and the way they mess with reporting, there's also raw number issues. Native Americans apparently made up less than 3% of the population of the US in 2021. Their abortion totals can easily be treated as something of a side-note just given raw numbers. It's probably also worth noting that Native Americans are generally rather underserved when it comes to health care in general, which means that there's even more challenges in play when it comes to trying to identify what their abortion rates actually are.

Another factor worth considering is that reservations are often quite rural in addition to being poor, and Native Americans may have less convenient access to reproductive medical care than their more urban impoverished peers.

Even in the most desperately poor urban neighborhoods, people are generally only one short bus or subway ride away from large, comprehensive medical facilities, and the concentration of urban poverty makes it much easier, logistically speaking, for the distribution of medical care.

ChrisBFRPKY 29th August 2023 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aridas (Post 14150793)
Now that I have a little more time - when it comes to Native Americans, specifically, there's probably a few things worth considering before any efforts to dismiss the effects of poverty.

1) Native American is an umbrella category that includes a lot of very different tribes. This messes with many simplifications. For more useful purposes, dealing with individual tribes tends to be needed.

2) There fairly certainly is general cultural backlash to the long lasting genocidal actions taken against Native Americans. I'm speaking of, for example, the mass forced sterilizations. This likely has backlash in that Native Americans will be less likely to abort and that Native Americans and their health providers will be less likely to voluntarily report a lot of information.

3) Native Americans spread knowledge of some cheap and fairly effective means of birth control. Eating a bit of dogbane or stoneseed, for example. It's not a stretch to say that these are likely to still be practiced, reducing the need for abortions.

4) As was touched on before, but should be emphasized further, reporting and statistics issues are likely in play. Skipping over the entirely justified distrust issues, though, and the way they mess with reporting, there's also raw number issues. Native Americans apparently made up less than 3% of the population of the US in 2021. Their abortion totals can easily be treated as something of a side-note just given raw numbers. It's probably also worth noting that Native Americans are generally rather underserved when it comes to health care in general, which means that there's even more challenges in play when it comes to trying to identify what their abortion rates actually are.

This.
A documented historical fact. Sterilization was performed on Native American girls as young as 11. That's why the US Government should never be in the population control business and the US Constitution should never be amended to include a right to abortion.

"Life" is the first unalienable right mentioned in the Declaration of Independence.

ChrisBFRPKY 29th August 2023 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14150261)
Figures don't lie but liars figure.

That's why it's important to be aware of the facts and to be skeptical of opinion whether it's popular or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14150261)
I'm really not sure your point.

I'm sure you are

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14150261)
My point was that reducing poverty will reduce the number of abortions. Not that poverty itself was a cause of abortions. Empowering women is the best method to reduce poverty. Allowing women to be in charge of their own reproductive health is a game changer.

We may somewhat agree. The current US economy is certainly causing hardships. One could argue that increasing economic pressure with high inflation, food and energy costs to intentionally cause struggle and hardship could be a useful tool if there was a certain goal it accomplished.

I'm all for letting Women be in charge of their reproductive health if you mean birth control. Birth control to prevent conception by choice is above board, though anything after conception is off limits.

TurkeysGhost 29th August 2023 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151241)
One could argue that increasing economic pressure with high inflation, food and energy costs to intentionally cause struggle and hardship could be a useful tool if there was a certain goal it accomplished.


One could argue a lot of things, but are you? Don't be shy, at least have the courage to own your conspiracy theory ramblings.

Tell me more, (((who))) is behind these perfidious schemes to control the population?

acbytesla 29th August 2023 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151241)
I'm sure you are

The problem is the speaker, not the listener.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151241)
We may somewhat agree. The current US economy is certainly causing hardships. One could argue that increasing economic pressure with high inflation, food and energy costs to intentionally cause struggle and hardship could be a useful tool if there was a certain goal it accomplished.

Inflation for the last year is not high at all. Unemployment is almost nil. Certainly, Trump left the country staring into the economic abyss and required someone to right the ship. The biggest economic problem to deal with has been high energy prices due to the disastrous policies of the Trump administration. The nation needs to keep investing in alternative energy sources so we no longer have be at the whims of the fossil fuel industry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151241)
I'm all for letting Women be in charge of their reproductive health if you mean birth control. Birth control to prevent conception by choice is above board, though anything after conception is off limits.

No you are not.

And so what if you declare that termination of a pregnancy is off limits. It won't stop abortions. All you will have accomplished is preventing poor women from obtaining an abortion. Anyone with economic means will be able to travel to obtain one or pay to receive a pill via the mail or UPS or Fedex.

What you're actually in favor of is spreading misery and poverty. Congrats.

TurkeysGhost 29th August 2023 12:35 PM

On a related, happier note, 5 anti-abortion zealots convicted for obstructing a clinic and conspiracy against rights in federal court today

Quote:

Lauren Handy, the anti-abortion activist who kept five fetuses in her Washington DC home, was on Tuesday found guilty of breaking federal law by blockading an abortion clinic.

The charges stem from an incident in October 2020, when Handy and nine other anti-abortion protesters invaded a Washington DC abortion clinic, according to an October 2022 indictment of the group. Handy used a fake name to book an appointment at the clinic, then blocked people from entering the waiting room while other defendants chained themselves together inside the clinic, prosecutors alleged. One of the clinic’s nurses sprained her ankle after she was pushed by a protester, according to the indictment.

Those actions, prosecutors argued, violated the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act (Face), a 1990s-era federal law that makes it a crime to threaten or block someone seeking access to an abortion clinic, among other offenses . During the trial, one of the clinic’s patients testified that she had to climb through a window at the abortion clinic to get past the protesters.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ckading-clinic

TurkeysGhost 29th August 2023 12:37 PM

In related news, 5 anti-abortion zealots have been convicted for blockading a clinic and conspiracy in federal court today.

Quote:

Lauren Handy, the anti-abortion activist who kept five fetuses in her Washington DC home, was on Tuesday found guilty of breaking federal law by blockading an abortion clinic.

The charges stem from an incident in October 2020, when Handy and nine other anti-abortion protesters invaded a Washington DC abortion clinic, according to an October 2022 indictment of the group. Handy used a fake name to book an appointment at the clinic, then blocked people from entering the waiting room while other defendants chained themselves together inside the clinic, prosecutors alleged. One of the clinic’s nurses sprained her ankle after she was pushed by a protester, according to the indictment.

Those actions, prosecutors argued, violated the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act (Face), a 1990s-era federal law that makes it a crime to threaten or block someone seeking access to an abortion clinic, among other offenses . During the trial, one of the clinic’s patients testified that she had to climb through a window at the abortion clinic to get past the protesters.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ckading-clinic

cosmicaug 29th August 2023 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
This.
A documented historical fact. Sterilization was performed on Native American girls as young as 11. That's why the US Government should never be in the population control business and the US Constitution should never be amended to include a right to abortion.

What does forced sterilization have to do with individual rights? You understand the meaning of the highlighted word, right? You understand that a "right to abortion" implies a right not to choose an abortion, right?

TheGoldcountry 29th August 2023 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151241)

I'm all for letting Women be in charge of their reproductive health if you mean birth control. Birth control to prevent conception by choice is above board, though anything after conception is off limits.

Being in favor of individual rights only when someone's actions meet your personal approval is de facto not being in favor of individual rights.

Also, as said above, equating forced sterilizations with pro-choice rights is about as ridiculous as it gets. You're going to hurt yourself stretching that much.

Aridas 29th August 2023 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 14151511)
What does forced sterilization have to do with individual rights?

It's a little more complicated than one might hope in practice, if I recall correctly. The allowing of particular individual rights helped facilitate and give cover to a number of bad actors/systemic abuses, such as when it came to forced sterilization, eugenics, and such. Similar crimes have been caught more recently, incidentally. Forced sterilization of immigrants, for example, was caught in action during the Trump Administration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 14151511)
You understand the meaning of the highlighted word, right? You understand that a "right to abortion" implies a right not to choose an abortion, right?

That's sorta a misnomer, I think. Still, I think that I'll address that a bit more directly in the following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
This.
A documented historical fact. Sterilization was performed on Native American girls as young as 11. That's why the US Government should never be in the population control business and the US Constitution should never be amended to include a right to abortion.

As an argument, this is a bit off. Sure, the government should not be engaging in population control, per se, but the issues actually at hand are not even remotely limited to that. On the people's side of things, the right to privacy and the right to make decisions about one's own body are very important things that protect the people against such government wrongdoing. What you're pushing is to directly destroy those protections against government abuse, which paves the way for those so motivated to engage in exactly that which you ostensibly oppose. The groups in favor of "population control of groups that they don't like" crowd never did actually go away, after all, and just happen to have very significant overlap with those groups that are ostensibly pro-life. Right wing propaganda's focus on creating and exacerbating demographic change fears makes the jump to exactly the kind of population control policy that you claim to oppose all too probable for the right-wing.

On the government's side, the government has valid interest in the health and prosperity of those they govern. In practice, legalizing abortion had *very* significant positive effects on health, prosperity, and human rights, with no meaningful negatives. In general, women who want abortions will get them, regardless of legality. It's just that the methods will generally be significantly less safe and the efforts at enforcement make us all worse off. Thus, overall, whether to legalize abortion or not is really just a question of whether to cause unnecessary suffering or to not cause unnecessary suffering. What you're pushing is pretty literally to force the government to act to harm the health and prosperity of those it governs, while also deeply undermining human rights across the board. It's hard to see where any good governance comes into play in what you seek.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
"Life" is the first unalienable right mentioned in the Declaration of Independence.

That's an empty gotcha. It sounds nice, but lacks substance as an actual argument. Even without going into the historical details, though, the second and third unalienable rights listed, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, pretty directly contradict your attempted argument here.

Stacyhs 30th August 2023 04:54 PM

Eagerly awaiting the next right-wing talking point not based on actual science or evidence.

acbytesla 30th August 2023 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
A documented historical fact. Sterilization was performed on Native American girls as young as 11. That's why the US Government should never be in the population control business.

I agree. Forced sterilization is immoral and wrong for the exact same reason that forcing a girl or woman to carry a pregnancy to term. It's a violation of their bodily autonomy.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
the US Constitution should never be amended to include a right to abortion.

I disagree.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
"Life" is the first unalienable right mentioned in the Declaration of Independence.

To begin with, the Declaration of Independence provides no basis for law. It is a declaration of war. Those are merely flowery words. The founders were certainly not making any statement regarding abortion. And you know it.

But who cares? The founders had no problem arguing for the right of liberty while at the same time depriving the liberty of their slaves.

smartcooky 30th August 2023 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY (Post 14151234)
This.
A documented historical fact. Sterilization was performed on Native American girls as young as 11. That's why the US Government should never be in the population control business...

And yet they are... some states are banning abortion - and you support that... and that IS population control any way you slice it!!

Stacyhs 30th August 2023 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 14152263)
And yet they are... some states are banning abortion - and you support that... and that IS population control any way you slice it!!

Now, now...let's not confuse the issue with logic. It makes right-wing heads explode.

TurkeysGhost 31st August 2023 05:14 AM

Alabama AG is arguing in court that any person or organization that assists an Alabama resident in leaving the state for the purpose of getting a legal abortion elsewhere is engaged in a criminal conspiracy.

https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-ju...0in%20Alabama.

thaiboxerken 31st August 2023 09:32 AM

Remember back when republicans were telling us that all the things republicans are doing now would never happen.? We were being hyperbolic and spreading fear...

TheGoldcountry 31st August 2023 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 14152585)
Remember back when republicans were telling us that all the things republicans are doing now would never happen.? We were being hyperbolic and spreading fear...

I also remember a lot about "small government" and "personal freedom" but that seems pretty loosey-goosey with those ******** too.

Delphic Oracle 31st August 2023 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14151269)
The problem is the speaker, not the listener.
Inflation for the last year is not high at all. Unemployment is almost nil. Certainly, Trump left the country staring into the economic abyss and required someone to right the ship. The biggest economic problem to deal with has been high energy prices due to the disastrous policies of the Trump administration. The nation needs to keep investing in alternative energy sources so we no longer have be at the whims of the fossil fuel industry.



No you are not.

And so what if you declare that termination of a pregnancy is off limits. It won't stop abortions. All you will have accomplished is preventing poor women from obtaining an safe abortion. Anyone with economic means will be able to travel to obtain one or pay to receive a pill via the mail or UPS or Fedex.

What you're actually in favor of is spreading misery and poverty. Congrats.

A very important distinction.

thaiboxerken 31st August 2023 11:44 AM

Holy cow, right? Especially in Florida, DeSatan has made strides towards turning Florida into an autocracy.

Stacyhs 31st August 2023 11:56 AM

According to AL law, criminal conspiracy in AL where the 'crime' occurs out of state can only be prosecuted if the act is illegal in that state. Therefore, if the abortion is obtained in a state where it is legal, it cannot be prosecuted in AL.

acbytesla 31st August 2023 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 14152665)
According to AL law, criminal conspiracy in AL where the 'crime' occurs out of state can only be prosecuted if the act is illegal in that state. Therefore, if the abortion is obtained in a state where it is legal, it cannot be prosecuted in AL.

It's sketchy in every way. There is a Constitutional right to travel from State to State. There is a Constitutional right of free speech. Arguing that one cannot assist another to travel to another State and perform any act that is legal in the other state wouldn’t fly.

That isn't to say Alabama couldn’t or wouldn’t arrest someone from doing it within their borders.

Stacyhs 31st August 2023 12:29 PM

Is there something in the water of right-wing states? Perhaps lead or a brain eating micro organism?:rolleyes:

bruto 31st August 2023 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14152670)
It's sketchy in every way. There is a Constitutional right to travel from State to State. There is a Constitutional right of free speech. Arguing that one cannot assist another to travel to another State and perform any act that is legal in the other state wouldn’t fly.

That isn't to say Alabama couldn’t or wouldn’t arrest someone from doing it within their borders.

They don't have to win if they make enough people afraid of the publicity, cost and inconvenience.

JayUtah 31st August 2023 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14152670)
It's sketchy in every way. There is a Constitutional right to travel from State to State. There is a Constitutional right of free speech. Arguing that one cannot assist another to travel to another State and perform any act that is legal in the other state wouldn’t fly.

Gambling is categorically illegal in most U.S. states, but legal in a few select locations. Imagine trying to charge a travel agent in Iowa with a "criminal conspiracy" for booking trips to Las Vegas.

Beerina 31st August 2023 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 14152585)
Remember back when republicans were telling us that all the things republicans are doing now would never happen.? We were being hyperbolic and spreading fear...


"We just want to return abortion to the states!"

"Now let's have a national abortion ban!" :eek:

acbytesla 31st August 2023 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayUtah (Post 14152740)
Gambling is categorically illegal in most U.S. states, but legal in a few select locations. Imagine trying to charge a travel agent in Iowa with a "criminal conspiracy" for booking trips to Las Vegas.

And just because he arranged the travel to Nevada your trip to the the Mirage or to the Mustang Ranch was up to you.

It was forever illegal in my state of Washington yet they use to advertise and sell Casino charters to Vegas for insanely low prices. Like $25 for roundtrip and a room for two days. There was a catch. You had to gamble at the Casino that arranged the charter. You couldn't just take the trip and then go do what you want. Well you could. But you would be banned from booking any future Casino charters.

Not exactly the same as getting an abortion, but still participating in activities that are illegal in our state.

slyjoe 31st August 2023 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14152787)
And just because he arranged the travel to Nevada your trip to the the Mirage or to the Mustang Ranch was up to you.

It was forever illegal in my state of Washington yet they use to advertise and sell Casino charters to Vegas for insanely low prices. Like $25 for roundtrip and a room for two days. There was a catch. You had to gamble at the Casino that arranged the charter. You couldn't just take the trip and then go do what you want. Well you could. But you would be banned from booking any future Casino charters.

Not exactly the same as getting an abortion, but still participating in activities that are illegal in our state.

If the reservation would tolerate it, often state law doesn't apply to reservations. And Alabama has reservation(s). That's why Arizona has a boatload of casinos even though gambling is ostensibly illegal.

Stacyhs 31st August 2023 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruto (Post 14152726)
They don't have to win if they make enough people afraid of the publicity, cost and inconvenience.

According to ABC News:

Quote:

The Yellowhammer Fund, a group that provided financial assistance to low-income abortion patients, stopped the work because of the prosecution concerns.

smartcooky 3rd September 2023 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost (Post 14152416)
Alabama AG is arguing in court that any person or organization that assists an Alabama resident in leaving the state for the purpose of getting a legal abortion elsewhere is engaged in a criminal conspiracy.

https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-ju...0in%20Alabama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 14152585)
Remember back when republicans were telling us that all the things republicans are doing now would never happen.? We were being hyperbolic and spreading fear...

Remember back when (in this very thread) I talked about a nurse friend of mine in Virginia who was advising those seeking abortions to keep quiet about it, and to share such information with as few people as possible because of the fear that state governments might prosecute anyone helping someone get an abortion, or even helping them get out of state to get one, and was roundly criticized by certain members, for promoting a fantasy!!?

Stacyhs 3rd September 2023 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartcooky (Post 14153765)
Remember back when (in this very thread) I talked about a nurse friend of mine in Virginia who was advising those seeking abortions to keep quiet about it, and to share such information with as few people as possible because of the fear that state governments might prosecute anyone helping someone get an abortion, or even helping them get out of state to get one, and was roundly criticized by certain members, for promoting a fantasy!!?

I certainly do!

catsmate 4th September 2023 07:00 AM

The latest "pro-birth" event, Natal, is run by far-rightists, fringe Mormons, white supremacists and eugenicists.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...texas-eugenics

The Don 4th September 2023 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14154169)
The latest "pro-birth" event, Natal, is run by far-rightists, fringe Mormons, white supremacists and eugenicists.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...texas-eugenics

Or IOW the GOP base.

Gulliver Foyle 6th September 2023 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 14154169)
The latest "pro-birth" event, Natal, is run by far-rightists, fringe Mormons, white supremacists and eugenicists.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...texas-eugenics

Every event will start with a 2 minutes hate where all attendees and speakers have to chant "the jews will not replace us" in unison.

acbytesla 7th September 2023 12:36 PM

You know the world is upside down when Mexico proves to be more enlightened than the United States.

The Mexican Supreme Court just decriminalized abortion.

Stacyhs 7th September 2023 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acbytesla (Post 14156764)
You know the world is upside down when Mexico proves to be more enlightened than the United States.

The Mexican Supreme Court just decriminalized abortion.

Maybe we could have some kind of Exchange Courts program? Theirs comes here for a year and ours goes there?


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