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The Great Zaganza 11th September 2019 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 12817206)
Is Tucker under the impression that the socialist left appoints government officials, and poor Trump has to suffer them? :confused:

It's incredibly similar to political purges in totalitarian regimes: a trusted ally will be re-designated as a long-time enemy the moment the guy at the top wants to get rid of them.
It takes a special kind of amnesia to accept that.

thaiboxerken 12th September 2019 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellyb (Post 12817305)
I think the idea is that "To a rightwing anarchocapitalist, all government is leftwing, so everything bad any government could ever do is "the left" behaving badly."

lol

I think it's worse than that. Everything bad is leftwing to Trumpanzees.

d4m10n 12th September 2019 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 12817634)
I think it's worse than that. Everything bad is leftwing to Trumpanzees.

Periodically I ask my friends who stumped for Obama if they can name something Trump has done right, and vice-versa. Most of them cannot come up with anything at all, and I've inferred that negative partisanship has altered their perception and memory of events.

Segnosaur 12th September 2019 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12817782)
Periodically I ask my friends who stumped for Obama if they can name something Trump has done right, and vice-versa. Most of them cannot come up with anything at all, and I've inferred that negative partisanship has altered their perception and memory of events.

I'm Canadian. I usually vote for the local conservative party, but I can easily point out things that the Liberal government has done right.

If I were American, I probably would have voted for Obama, but I can pick out things that he did wrong.

On the other hand, I can't think of anything Trump has done right. Maybe that's partisanship, but with other politicians I can easily find things they did right/wrong. Maybe Trump is such a toxic individual that nothing he has done has been right.

Trebuchet 12th September 2019 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12817782)
Periodically I ask my friends who stumped for Obama if they can name something Trump has done right, and vice-versa. Most of them cannot come up with anything at all, and I've inferred that negative partisanship has altered their perception and memory of events.

Ok, then: What do YOU think he has done right?

The Great Zaganza 12th September 2019 09:08 AM

Well, everyone of the people he hired and later fired was incompetent, a security risk, corrupt and/or downright dangerous.
Thanks for that Trump!

Safe-Keeper 12th September 2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12817782)
Periodically I ask my friends who stumped for Obama if they can name something Trump has done right, and vice-versa. Most of them cannot come up with anything at all, and I've inferred that negative partisanship has altered their perception and memory of events.

I actually can't really think of anything, either. There have been moments where I heard of some idea of his and thought, hey, that's actually a great idea, but they are overshadowed by his clown/wannabe dictator antics and so I couldn't tell you what they were. His own fault, really.

Had it not been so long ago, I could probably have listed some policies I supported from Bush, though.

Safe-Keeper 12th September 2019 09:17 AM

Thankfully Bolton only brought Trump coffee.

d4m10n 12th September 2019 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12818055)
Ok, then: What do YOU think he has done right?

1) Sacking John Bolton, who has often pushed for new (endless) wars in SW Asia.

2) Targeting "rust belt" states once thought to be part of an unscalable "blue wall" by electoral strategists/pundits in 2016.

3) Defeating ISIS.

4) Longest economic expansion in U.S. history.

Those last two are continuations of trends & policies which started under Obama, but I'm pleasantly surprised he didn't muck it up.

The Great Zaganza 12th September 2019 09:36 AM

The Criminal Justice Reform was better than nothing.

Segnosaur 12th September 2019 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4m10n (Post 12818102)
1) Sacking John Bolton, who has often pushed for new (endless) wars in SW Asia.

He hired him in the first place. Why should we say he did something right when he was fixing a problem he created in the first place?

Quote:

2) Targeting "rust belt" states once thought to be part of an unscalable "blue wall" by electoral strategists/pundits in 2016.
That was something that occurred during the election, and says nothing about anything he's done since he was sworn in.

Quote:

3) Defeating ISIS.

4) Longest economic expansion in U.S. history.

Those last two are continuations of trends & policies which started under Obama, but I'm pleasantly surprised he didn't muck it up.
I don't know if "he didn't muck it up" should count as something he did right.

As for the economy.... It is true... GDP, employment, stock markets, etc. have continued to increase during Trump's term (a trend started under Obama). But he has also greatly increased the deficit (so at least part of that economic success is based on borrowed money), and there are definitely signs of an economic slowdown (and perhaps a recession) in the next year... manufacturing is already slipping into a recession, job grown has slowed, and the stock market is fluctuating/stagnating.

https://www.marketplace.org/2019/09/...o-a-recession/

Beelzebuddy 12th September 2019 10:05 AM

I've got something: he dropped the TPP.

In hindsight I'm certain he didn't actually know or care about anything in it, he just opposed it because Clinton supported it, and he wouldn't have personally made any money off it. But still, it was a terrible agreement completely beholden to corporate interests and we're better off without it.

Dr. Keith 12th September 2019 10:14 AM

He has at least twice called for universal background checks.

That he later retracted those thoughts after meeting with his masters from Russia's NRA would be a balancing negative.

Segnosaur 12th September 2019 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy (Post 12818153)
I've got something: he dropped the TPP.

In hindsight I'm certain he didn't actually know or care about anything in it, he just opposed it because Clinton supported it, and he wouldn't have personally made any money off it. But still, it was a terrible agreement completely beholden to corporate interests and we're better off without it.

Whether that is something "good" or not is debatable.

Yes, trade deals would have benefitted corporations. But Trade in general is good.

And think about some of the things the U.S. lost out on by withdrawing from the deal:

- Remember Trump's complaints about access to Canadian dairy markets? The TPP would have given them some of that (rather than having to wait for a re-negotiated NAFTA)

- You know how Trump has his little trade spat with China? Well, the TPP didn't involve china. Being part of the TPP would have given the U.S. more leverage in dealing with them.

I think the deal would have been of benefit to the U.S., but thanks to Trump we'll never know.

Beelzebuddy 12th September 2019 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12818178)
Whether that is something "good" or not is debatable.

Yes, trade deals would have benefitted corporations. But Trade in general is good.

And think about some of the things the U.S. lost out on by withdrawing from the deal:

- Remember Trump's complaints about access to Canadian dairy markets? The TPP would have given them some of that (rather than having to wait for a re-negotiated NAFTA)

- You know how Trump has his little trade spat with China? Well, the TPP didn't involve china. Being part of the TPP would have given the U.S. more leverage in dealing with them.

I think the deal would have been of benefit to the U.S., but thanks to Trump we'll never know.

I'm familiar with the leaked part of the deal that had to do with copyright law. It was a pile of crap literally written by copyright lobbying groups. I remember the absurd secrecy surrounding it, such that even the people who were to vote on it were not allowed to see the whole thing. It was not an honest or open creation process. Trade is good, but just because this had "trade" in the name did not mean it was similarly good.

quadraginta 12th September 2019 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12818001)
<snip>

On the other hand, I can't think of anything Trump has done right. Maybe that's partisanship, but with other politicians I can easily find things they did right/wrong. Maybe Trump is such a toxic individual that nothing he has done has been right.


If his presidency ends up bringing the GOP crashing down in flames, leaving nothing but a pile of sodden ashes, then I'll certainly concede that that was something good he did.

d4m10n 12th September 2019 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12818178)
Whether [dropping TPP] is something "good" or not is debatable.

Of course it is, but my original point was that hardcore (negative) partisans have trouble recognizing whenever the opposite side does anything which comports with their own fundamental goals and values.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza (Post 12818114)
...Criminal Justice Reform was better than nothing.

It certainly was a step in the right direction, as was the bipartisan bill designed to address the opioid epidemic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12818133)
Why should we say he did something right when he was fixing a problem he created in the first place?

For the same reason we should encourage anyone to change their minds and lives for the better.

kellyb 12th September 2019 12:05 PM

The criminal justice reform is the one that really comes to mind for me when I think of things Trump has done that actually are good.
I think he's handled ISIS/Syria better, too.

JoeMorgue 12th September 2019 12:09 PM

1. He promoted the US Cyber Command to full combatant command. This is the one movie I will actually say I fully "Like." The government has been far too long in seeing our nation's cyber defense structure as a valid, integrated part of national defense and getting rid of the US Cyber Command's weird half structure dual hat setup that made doing anything impossible because you had two completely separate chains of command is a huge step in fixing that.

2. The lifetime ban on White House employees lobbying for foreign powers was... I won't like a sort of "Holy **** you mean they could do that before?" thing for me.

3. It's silly and stupid... but I don't hate the way he decorated the White House for Christmas. I've said before that The White House being perpetually stuck in a limbo state of never changing "Quaint Americana on top of Classic Greco-Roman" look that's never allowed to evolve beyond "What if Norman Rockwell threw up on chiseled marble" never set well for me. I won't say I personally liked it on an aesthetic level but seeing a weird, sorta post-modern, almost avante garde look... I didn't hate it.

JoeMorgue 12th September 2019 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12815487)
I see that "You can't fire me! I quit" is getting to be routine in the Trump administration.

I do wonder if, even if the stars align and it actually happens, Trump will let himself be impeached or pull a Nixon.

dudalb 12th September 2019 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapelDodger (Post 12815845)
Quite. They're both determined to stay "in the game", and pulling together is their best hope of doing so.

True, but they both might have lot of interesting dirt to turn up....

jimbob 12th September 2019 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12818386)
True, but they both might have lot of interesting dirt to turn up....

It's interesting that such a group of self-serving chancers as Trump's former aides, who leak like mad when in government haven't been sticking the boot in more. Maybe they are waiting for the wind to turn.

Norman Alexander 12th September 2019 02:10 PM

I wonder if you could count "being utterly incompetent for so long" as "something positive Trump has done".

His administration has been just so damned stupid and ineffective that essentially the US economy has continued to coast uphill for the last few years as a result of Obama's recovery policies from the GFC. Trump's bunch of no-hopers are just so useless that they have had no actual effect on things. They haven't actually been competent enough to screw it up.

Of course, Trump has been claiming this "fabulous strong economy" as his own doing. That's his MO - taking credit for other peoples' work. Reality is they inherited a going concern but have been squabbling about who sits in which chair in the boardroom most of the time and getting fired rather than actually doing any steering and stuff.

At least until recently...when Trump started "Tariff Wars!"

a_unique_person 12th September 2019 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur (Post 12818001)
I'm Canadian. I usually vote for the local conservative party, but I can easily point out things that the Liberal government has done right.



If I were American, I probably would have voted for Obama, but I can pick out things that he did wrong.



On the other hand, I can't think of anything Trump has done right. Maybe that's partisanship, but with other politicians I can easily find things they did right/wrong. Maybe Trump is such a toxic individual that nothing he has done has been right.

Trump has gone one better and specifically tried to undo anything Obama did get right.

Trebuchet 12th September 2019 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander (Post 12818475)
I wonder if you could count "being utterly incompetent for so long" as "something positive Trump has done".

His administration has been just so damned stupid and ineffective that essentially the US economy has continued to coast uphill for the last few years as a result of Obama's recovery policies from the GFC. Trump's bunch of no-hopers are just so useless that they have had no actual effect on things. They haven't actually been competent enough to screw it up.

Of course, Trump has been claiming this "fabulous strong economy" as his own doing. That's his MO - taking credit for other peoples' work. Reality is they inherited a going concern but have been squabbling about who sits in which chair in the boardroom most of the time and getting fired rather than actually doing any steering and stuff.

At least until recently...when Trump started "Tariff Wars!"

He was taking credit for it before even being inaugurated. Which is at least consistent with Republicans blaming Obama for the crash of 2008.

Meanwhile, I just saw him on TV explaining that National Security Advisor is the easiest job in the world. "Because I make all the decisions".

a_unique_person 12th September 2019 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12818663)
He was taking credit for it before even being inaugurated. Which is at least consistent with Republicans blaming Obama for the crash of 2008.



Meanwhile, I just saw him on TV explaining that National Security Advisor is the easiest job in the world. "Because I make all the decisions".

LOL. So those scandalous books that claimed that Trump never listens to anyone and just does what he wants anyway were right all along.

alfaniner 12th September 2019 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12818329)
I do wonder if, even if the stars align and it actually happens, Trump will let himself be impeached or pull a Nixon.

He will never let himself be impeached. He must have control at all times. Even if it comes to the point where he says "I'm fired!!!"

quadraginta 12th September 2019 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12818329)
I do wonder if, even if the stars align and it actually happens, Trump will let himself be impeached or pull a Nixon.


There isn't a chance he would ever bow out like Nixon. Nixon wasn't anywhere nearly as divorced from reality as Trump. He saw what was coming and took the easiest way out.

Trump, even if confronted with the absolute certainty, would fight to the bitter end, and after the ax fell he'd claim it was all fake news, a deep state plot, and refuse to leave office.

He'll have to be dragged out. Screaming, yelling, and whining all the way.

Stacyhs 13th September 2019 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12818977)
There isn't a chance he would ever bow out like Nixon. Nixon wasn't anywhere nearly as divorced from reality as Trump. He saw what was coming and took the easiest way out.

Trump, even if confronted with the absolute certainty, would fight to the bitter end, and after the ax fell he'd claim it was all fake news, a deep state plot, and refuse to leave office.

He'll have to be dragged out. Screaming, yelling, and whining all the way.

Nah, he'll just blame Obama.

Trebuchet 17th September 2019 06:57 PM

You can't make this stuff up. Sean Spicer thinks he's being discriminated against on Dancing With The Stars for being a Christian.

ETA: Linky. Apparently he didn't learn about not bearing false witness in Sunday School.

quadraginta 17th September 2019 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12823836)
You can't make this stuff up. Sean Spicer thinks he's being discriminated against on Dancing With The Stars for being a Christian.

ETA: Linky. Apparently he didn't learn about not bearing false witness in Sunday School.


From the news clip I saw, he should be discriminated against for allowing himself to be dressed in that outfit.

And may well have been.

Norman Alexander 17th September 2019 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12823836)
You can't make this stuff up. Sean Spicer thinks he's being discriminated against on Dancing With The Stars for being a Christian.

ETA: Linky. Apparently he didn't learn about not bearing false witness in Sunday School.

I suspect his Christian church will now discriminate against him for dressing like that and cavorting in public! :rolleyes:

The Don 18th September 2019 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12823836)
You can't make this stuff up. Sean Spicer thinks he's being discriminated against on Dancing With The Stars for being a Christian.

ETA: Linky. Apparently he didn't learn about not bearing false witness in Sunday School.

The persecution narrative seems to strike a chord with white, middle aged, upper middle class, cis-male, heterosexual, Christians.

Poor dears having to make their way though life burdened by privilege :rolleyes:

Doubt 18th September 2019 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12823836)
You can't make this stuff up. Sean Spicer thinks he's being discriminated against on Dancing With The Stars for being a Christian.

ETA: Linky. Apparently he didn't learn about not bearing false witness in Sunday School.

Based on the shirt he had on I think the costume people are sabotaging him.

Foolmewunz 18th September 2019 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 12823836)
You can't make this stuff up. Sean Spicer thinks he's being discriminated against on Dancing With The Stars for being a Christian.

ETA: Linky. Apparently he didn't learn about not bearing false witness in Sunday School.

I think it's just a ham-handed attempt to trawl Huckabee's audience of fundies for votes. I don't watch the US version but from what I saw of the UK version (one season), the public vote saves a lot of incompetent dancers. If the only channel to votes is through a few brazillion fundies, he may just be stumping.

(He can't dance and he looks like an idiot in the costume, so his only hope of making it into the later rounds is if the public "saves" him, again assuming that the voting is like the UK version.)

d4m10n 18th September 2019 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12824267)
Based on the shirt he had on I think the costume people are sabotaging him.

At this point I'm happy to see him publicly beclowning himself without drawing upon the federal fisc.

May all his former cronies soon follow his example.

quadraginta 18th September 2019 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubt (Post 12824267)
Based on the shirt he had on I think the costume people are sabotaging him.


I had the same thought.

But he could have refused to wear it, so I don't see him as uninvolved in the choice.

Craig4 22nd September 2019 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue (Post 12818327)

3. It's silly and stupid... but I don't hate the way he decorated the White House for Christmas. I've said before that The White House being perpetually stuck in a limbo state of never changing "Quaint Americana on top of Classic Greco-Roman" look that's never allowed to evolve beyond "What if Norman Rockwell threw up on chiseled marble" never set well for me. I won't say I personally liked it on an aesthetic level but seeing a weird, sorta post-modern, almost avante garde look... I didn't hate it.

Melania used the blood of real immigrant children to make the trees red.

dudalb 24th September 2019 06:19 PM

Now reports that Giulaini was the lead guy on the Ukraine project.
Which means he has just gone to the top of the scapegoat list....

thaiboxerken 24th September 2019 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12831722)
Now reports that Giulaini was the lead guy on the Ukraine project.
Which means he has just gone to the top of the scapegoat list....

I think so. He's going to learn that loyalty is a one-way street with Trump.

Norman Alexander 24th September 2019 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12831722)
Now reports that Giulaini was the lead guy on the Ukraine project.
Which means he has just gone to the top of the scapegoat list....

Was just here in this thread to post exactly that.

I suspect his off-the-wall performance with Cuomo the other day was the final nail in his political coffin. That and having screwed up the Ukraine project right royally, causing an impeachment inquiry to drop on Da Boss. I would not be surprised if Donny doesn't want Rudi fired...out of a cannon.

The Great Zaganza 25th September 2019 01:36 AM

Rudy is in the middle of a messy divorce. He can't afford another lawyer.

alfaniner 25th September 2019 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12831722)
Now reports that Giulaini was the lead guy on the Ukraine project.
Which means he has just gone to the top of the scapegoat list....

I think he's out by the end of the week.

(eta)
Hell, since The PDJT is averse to being impeached (although it won't happen), just the procedures starting might push him over the edge. I'm wondering if (actually hoping) this will be the impetus for him to resign.

chrispy 25th September 2019 06:58 AM

I just bet a friend Q140 (about 20 bucks or 2 days wages) that Rudy is gone by Friday night. They'll probably wait to the weekend to drop the axe.

Delphic Oracle 25th September 2019 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispy (Post 12832249)
I just bet a friend Q140 (about 20 bucks or 2 days wages) that Rudy is gone by Friday night. They'll probably wait to the weekend to drop the axe.

Friday afternoon trash dump, Saturday morning twitter rant, Sunday morning roundtable fodder.

dudalb 25th September 2019 03:00 PM

I think Barr might have cause for concern also.

dudalb 25th September 2019 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle (Post 12832436)
Friday afternoon trash dump, Saturday morning twitter rant, Sunday morning roundtable fodder.

Frankly, surprised that Rudy has stayed around this long, given the amount of bad advice he has given Donnie. ANy normal President would have fired him a long time ago.
But that might be one of Donnie's achilles heels...he values blind loyalry above competence and intelligence.

dudalb 25th September 2019 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaniner (Post 12832197)
I think he's out by the end of the week.

(eta)
Hell, since The PDJT is averse to being impeached (although it won't happen), just the procedures starting might push him over the edge. I'm wondering if (actually hoping) this will be the impetus for him to resign.

I think you mean "conviction" instead of being impeached.

Craig4 26th September 2019 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraginta (Post 12823960)
From the news clip I saw, he should be discriminated against for allowing himself to be dressed in that outfit.

And may well have been.

I love that he's on dancing with the stars. If you're going to use your life as a cautionary tale, go all in and drive the point home. The Kelly Anne will may be doing a tango to the derision of millions sooner than she thinks.

Craig4 26th September 2019 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 12818386)
True, but they both might have lot of interesting dirt to turn up....

Bolton and the Mooch must be salivating. The time is near to render justice.


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