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-   -   Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359834)

shuttlt 16th July 2022 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 13857061)
A consistent "small government" republican would embrace a situation where a potential problem is solved without regulation.

Would that not be the case only if "small government" were their only moral principle, or their world view didn't acknowledge any tensions between competing goods. It feels like you are talking about libertarians.

johnny karate 17th July 2022 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13856938)
This is just some of the worst logic ever, and I see it mentioned quite a bit.

"This baby might not grow up to be a rock star, so it's better to just kill it. If you think otherwise, tell me exactly how you are going pay for all of the expenses."

Outstanding.

What a laughably clumsy misrepresentation. I mean, I see what you're trying to do, but the execution is just so emabarrassingly terrible.

No one said or implied anything about the baby growing up to be rock star, and I'll put myself on record stating that we don't need any policies to make sure that happens.

If you want specifics, I'm talking about some basic quality of life issues, like access to healthcare (the thing you proudly admit you don't care poor people die from).

What Republican policies are there to ensure that this theoretical baby, the life of which Republicans claim they value, would have access to healthcare?

autumn1971 17th July 2022 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13856654)
So yeah, you support making 8 1/2 month abortions legal for any cause, universally. Got it.

Well, in the US, that way of thinking has thankfully taken a big hit.

Sigh. This has been explained to you.
There must be a very significant cause for the abortion to be warranted under other laws and professional regulations, just not this law.
You wish to give government bodies total control of individual rights.

Nice to be a “small government conservative.”

johnny karate 17th July 2022 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13857073)
Would that not be the case only if "small government" were their only moral principle, or their world view didn't acknowledge any tensions between competing goods. It feels like you are talking about libertarians.

"Were their only moral principle" implies Republicans have moral principles at all.

Good one. I needed a laugh this morning.

bruto 17th July 2022 09:47 AM

I think when most people say "small government" they mean small in numbers, not small in power. They mean cheap, not good. Democracy is bulky and expensive. I think for many advocates of small government the ideal is "a dictator like me."

Shalamar 17th July 2022 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autumn1971 (Post 13857437)
Sigh. This has been explained to you.
There must be a very significant cause for the abortion to be warranted under other laws and professional regulations, just not this law.
You wish to give government bodies total control of individual rights.

Nice to be a “small government conservative.”

It's a game. They want to be able to say 'SEE! The Libs Want to kill da BABBIES!'

As far as I can tell, the cons just want to deny women rights over their own bodies.

arayder 17th July 2022 03:24 PM

Stop feeding the troll
 
The only thing a troll believes in is posting inflammatory, insincere and digressive messages with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses.

Stop feeding the troll.

gnome 17th July 2022 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13857614)
The only thing a troll believes in is posting inflammatory, insincere and digressive messages with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses.

Stop feeding the troll.

Tragically, these days it's also a rallying cry that turns into votes and policy. Ignoring it is no longer an option. The key is to keep your cool.

Warp12 17th July 2022 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13857436)
What Republican policies are there to ensure that this theoretical baby, the life of which Republicans claim they value, would have access to healthcare?


The ultimate display of liberal ideology failure: Failures of personal responsibility are to be rewarded with government subsidy via taxpayer investment.

And yes, abortion is primarily a failure of personal responsibility. Most unwanted pregnancies are a result of lack of birth control, or improper use of such, according to the CDC.

Nevermind the fact that you are saying it is better to kill the unborn if you can't fund their success via government policies.

Amazing.

Shalamar 17th July 2022 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13857614)
The only thing a troll believes in is posting inflammatory, insincere and digressive messages with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses.

Stop feeding the troll.

This message is hidden because THE TROLL is on your ignore list.

I only see the posts if they're quoted. I suggest others do the same.

Puppycow 17th July 2022 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857656)
The ultimate display of liberal ideology failure: Failures of personal responsibility are to be rewarded with government subsidy via taxpayer investment.

Yes, that 10-year-old rape should have taken personal responsibility for her actions. She should have been on birth control.

Warp12 17th July 2022 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13857663)
Yes, that 10-year-old rape should have taken personal responsibility for her actions. She should have been on birth control.


This is an example of the tired approach of trying to use the very extreme outlier to represent the norm. And a pretty bad one. There were 600k+ abortions last year.

I get it, though. Trying to appeal to emotion. The ultimate liberal angle.

Puppycow 17th July 2022 06:04 PM

I get that you don't want to talk about 10-year-old rape victims because it's inconvenient to your ideology, but I see that you have no good answer. Should a 10-year-old rape victim, or a rape victim of any age be forced to carry that pregnancy to term?

Warp12 17th July 2022 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13857671)
I get that you don't want to talk about 10-year-old rape victims because it's inconvenient to your ideology, but I see that you have no good answer. Should a 10-year-old rape victim, or a rape victim of any age be forced to carry that pregnancy to term?


And I get that you haven't followed much of this thread.

I presented my general support of Roe for months here, my opposition to limiting abortion in cases of rape and incest, and my support of free birth control and education. Not good enough, though. Never will be.

But now, because of liberal inability to compromise and push on abortion matters, I don't care how this plays out. I will let the states decide, and be happy with that. And I certainly won't let a liberal outcry over the rape of a ten-year-old keep my focus off of the other 600k+ annual executions of the unborn.

Shalamar 17th July 2022 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13857671)
I get that you don't want to talk about 10-year-old rape victims because it's inconvenient to your ideology, but I see that you have no good answer. Should a 10-year-old rape victim, or a rape victim of any age be forced to carry that pregnancy to term?

It was only a 'split tail', and thus not a real person. [/sarcasm]

cosmicaug 17th July 2022 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857656)
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny karate (Post 13857436)
What Republican policies are there to ensure that this theoretical baby, the life of which Republicans claim they value, would have access to healthcare?

The ultimate display of liberal ideology failure: Failures of personal responsibility are to be rewarded with government subsidy via taxpayer investment.

Totally! I mean, if you actually had sane social policy that supported such a baby, it would hardly be optimizing the punishment of the irresponsible slut. That would be crazy!

cosmicaug 17th July 2022 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13857671)
I get that you don't want to talk about 10-year-old rape victims because it's inconvenient to your ideology, but I see that you have no good answer. Should a 10-year-old rape victim, or a rape victim of any age be forced to carry that pregnancy to term?

No. He's explained several times. While in theory, it's a bad thing, in practice he enjoys thinking about this tremendously because it pwns teh libs. It makes it all worth it.

Shalamar 17th July 2022 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13857675)
Totally! I mean, if you actually had sane social policy that supported such a baby, it would hardly be optimizing the punishment of the irresponsible slut. That would be crazy!

That baby better pull itself up by it's bootstraps! Conservatives like that only care about 'babies' until forced birth. Then they would happily punt it into the trash to 'pwn the libs'. . How DARE their not-hard-earned tax money go towards a BABY?!

cosmicaug 17th July 2022 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalamar (Post 13857681)
That baby better pull itself up by it's bootstraps! Conservatives like that only care about 'babies' until forced birth. Then they would happily punt it into the trash to 'pwn the libs'. . How DARE their not-hard-earned tax money go towards a BABY?!

Having them be used to Pwn teh libs is a good way to teach them responsibility.

Stacyhs 17th July 2022 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857666)
This is an example of the tired approach of trying to use the very extreme outlier to represent the norm. And a pretty bad one. There were 600k+ abortions last year.

I get it, though. Trying to appeal to emotion.

Exactly what the hell do you think you've been doing if not 'appealing to emotion' with your constant demand to know "So, can you tell me, do you support a woman having a legal right to abortion at 8 1/2 months, without medical cause?"when you've been a complete failure at providing an example of this actually happening? Just imagine the HORROR of it! Which is what we have to do since it doesn't happen.

Quote:

The ultimate liberal angle.
The ultimate right-wing fear mongering. You are as transparent as window glass.

Warp12 17th July 2022 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13857692)
Exactly what the hell do you think you've been doing if not 'appealing to emotion' with your constant demand to know "So, can you tell me, do you support a woman having a legal right to abortion at 8 1/2 months, without medical cause


Ridiculous. I'm not saying it happens all the time. I'm asking why it should be legal, as it is in some states? And I'm asking you to condemn it, just like I have condemned disallowing abortion in cases of rape and incest, many times previously.

But that didn't get me a thing...so, why bother at this point?

Stacyhs 17th July 2022 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857697)
Ridiculous. I'm not saying it happens all the time. I'm asking why it should be legal, as it is in some states? And I'm asking you to condemn it, just like I have condemned disallowing abortion in cases of rape and incest, many times previously.

But that didn't get me a thing...so, why bother at this point?

No one claime you said it was happening all the time, yet you repeatedly demand and answer for whether or not we condemn or not a law for something that doesn't happen because you're appealing to emotion.

Besides never providing a case of this happening (because it doesn't), you still have never explained your rationale for supporting an exception for rape and incest. Why are those babies not worthy of life while those conceived by irresponsible split-tails are? But you won't explain that, will ya?
Quote:

But that didn't get me a thing...so, why bother at this point?
Oh, I wouldn't say that. I think it got you exactly what you wanted.

Warp12 17th July 2022 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13857700)
No one claime you said it was happening all the time, yet you repeatedly demand and answer for whether or not we condemn or not a law for something that doesn't happen because you're appealing to emotion.

Besides never providing a case of this happening (because it doesn't), you still have never explained your rationale for supporting an exception for rape and incest. Why are those babies not worthy of life while those conceived by irresponsible split-tails are? But you won't explain that, will ya?


We get it, you won't go on record as condemning law allowing for 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause.

Well, that's fine. I condemn it. And I also have condemned not allowing abortion in cases of rape and incest. But now, with no chance at compromise on these issues, I leave it to the states.

Chips falling where they may. Good job, Dems.

Stacyhs 17th July 2022 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857704)
We get it, you won't go on record as condemning 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause.

Well, that's fine. I condemn it. And I also have condemned not allowing abortion in cases of rape and incest. But now, with no chance at compromise on these issues, I leave it to the states.

Chips falling where they may. Good job, Dems.

Yes, let's do that since we're never going to get an answer from you about why babies resulting from rape or incest are unworthy of life unlike those of irresponsible split-tails.

Besides, you got what you really wanted. So why not move on to another episode of "Trigger the LIBS!"

Shalamar 17th July 2022 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13857708)
Yes, let's do that since we're never going to get an answer from you about why babies resulting from rape or incest are unworthy of life unlike those of irresponsible split-tails.

Besides, you got what you really wanted. So why not move on to another episode of "Trigger the LIBS!"

The issue with outlawing such abortions has been explained. The effects of similar laws are being felt in Texas right now, but those don't fit the narrative of whorish split-tails who need to be punished to trigger the libs.

arayder 17th July 2022 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13857708)
. . you got what you really wanted. So why not move on to another episode of "Trigger the LIBS!"

The only thing a troll believes in is posting inflammatory, insincere and digressive messages with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses.

thaiboxerken 17th July 2022 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser (Post 13856942)
No, the logic is "I do not think I will be able to care for a child in any way shape or form. Or it will grow up in an abusive environment. Or if I have this child zI will have to live paycheck to paycheck attempting to provide food while never seeing it as I'll never be there, I should wait until I have a good job. Or many other valid reasons a woman that accidentaly gets pregnant might have.

But the current GoP laws care for the child until it is born. If afterwards it's life is pure hell, well, that's all up to god.

The logic is even simpler than that. It is "I have a medical condition that carries unwanted risk mentally, physically and financially (pregnancy) and I want to end that medical condition"

thaiboxerken 17th July 2022 08:39 PM

Warp12, why do you believe children should give birth to their rapists' children?

Warp12 17th July 2022 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken (Post 13857720)
Warp12, why do you believe children should give birth to their rapists' children?


I don't believe that. Like, I just stated this a few posts ago.

We are done with debate, for today. Read up.

Bob001 17th July 2022 09:16 PM

A forced birther -- a more accurate designation now than "pro-lifer" -- claims at a congressional hearing that if a 10-year-old's pregnancy is terminated, it's not really an abortion and no law would prohibit it.
Quote:

Catherine Glenn Foster, the president and CEO of Americans United for Life, was responding to questions from Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) about whether she thinks a 10-year-old girl would or should “choose” to have a baby. After some back and forth, during which Foster refused to answer the question, she came up with a response.
....
“If a 10-year-old became pregnant as a result of rape and it was threatening her life, then that’s not an abortion,” Foster said. “So it would not fall under any abortion restriction in our nation.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/abort...b0e6251b3a0f79
https://www.salon.com/2022/07/15/con...rtion_partner/

Lukraak_Sisser 17th July 2022 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857656)
The ultimate display of liberal ideology failure: Failures of personal responsibility are to be rewarded with government subsidy via taxpayer investment.

And yes, abortion is primarily a failure of personal responsibility. Most unwanted pregnancies are a result of lack of birth control, or improper use of such, according to the CDC.

Nevermind the fact that you are saying it is better to kill the unborn if you can't fund their success via government policies.

Amazing.

And here you show the true misogyny inherent in your and the conservative warped view of the world

It takes two persons to get a woman pregnant.
Both were 'irresponsible', often due to the fact that the GOP forbids sexual education and easy access to birth control.

Yet the result of this means the woman who would want an abortion is the one that will get the full punishment.
Now, regardless of your fantasy world, abortions are not done lightly by the vast majority of women. It means they are well aware that having the child at that time means a situation where both mother and child are in a situation that is deeply unwanted for the next 18+ years, often their entire lives.

But the man equally responsible? He gets to walk away.

While at the same time your precious laws will also open up all women to trial for miscarriage.

Putting women clearly in a situation where they have less rights than men and more chance of going to jail for their biology.

The land of the free (provided you are a white rich male).

gnome 17th July 2022 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857723)
I don't believe that. Like, I just stated this a few posts ago.

So... you don't agree with it, but just oppose it in a sort of lukewarm manner that evaporates completely if someone takes a tone you don't like.

If it's that easy to make you not care, I think that says something.

Susheel 17th July 2022 11:03 PM

For a person who doesn't care much about the issue, he sure spends a lot of time telling us how much he doesn't care, despite us not asking him.

psionl0 17th July 2022 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 13857061)
A consistent "small government" republican . . .

That would have to be the oxymoron of the thread.

Bob001 17th July 2022 11:38 PM

Religous leaders plan to make abortion a matter of religious freedom.
Quote:

How abortion is framed in the United States reflects the central role conservative Christians have played, said Rebecca Todd Peters, a professor of religion at Elon University in North Carolina and an ordained Presbyterian minister.

"When you require a woman to justify their decision to get an abortion, that assumes that abortion is wrong. And where is that assumption coming from? Christian activists," Peters said. "It's just stunning to me the power that ideological perspective has on everybody's life in the U.S."

Past efforts to protect abortion rights have largely rested on personal privacy, not religious freedom, experts say. But experts including Silver, who is also a civil rights lawyer and former state lawmaker, say religious claims might actually sway courts because those rights are specifically enumerated in state and the U.S. Constitution.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/re...out&li=BBnb7Kz

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13857757)
Religous leaders plan to make abortion a matter of religious freedom.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/re...out&li=BBnb7Kz

Of course, it's based on religious beliefs. So is the homophobia. All the Abrahamic religions are misogynistic.

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857723)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Warp12, why do you believe children should give birth to their rapists' children?
I don't believe that. Like, I just stated this a few posts ago.

We are done with debate, for today. Read up.


This is a very odd way to say you don't believe that "children should give birth to their rapists' children."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855577)
Well of course nobody should be raping children. But we can't have people disobeying abortion law based solely on their individual morality, either. Where do you draw the line on that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13855670)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
How long should a 10 year old rape victim be forced to stay pregnant? Answer the question.
As long as is determined by law. Sorry, but that is your answer.


Puppycow 18th July 2022 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13857730)
A forced birther -- a more accurate designation now than "pro-lifer" -- claims at a congressional hearing that if a 10-year-old's pregnancy is terminated, it's not really an abortion and no law would prohibit it.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/abort...b0e6251b3a0f79
https://www.salon.com/2022/07/15/con...rtion_partner/

Yeah, I heard about that. Strange. It somehow magically isn't an abortion even though it's the same procedure.

Skeptic Ginger 18th July 2022 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13857782)
Of course, it's based on religious beliefs. So is the homophobia. All the Abrahamic religions are misogynistic.

Did you misread the post you quoted?

From the link:
Quote:

They're planning to file religious-freedom lawsuits, hoping to use either state or federal courts to reinstate their rights, which they say are being violated by conservative Christians who've forced their theocracy upon others as a de-facto national religion in the fight against abortion rights.

BobTheCoward 18th July 2022 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13857844)
Did you misread the post you quoted?

From the link:

What a dumb argument


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