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-   -   Roe v. Wade overturned -- this is some BS (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359834)

Armitage72 18th July 2022 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppycow (Post 13857663)
Yes, that 10-year-old rape should have taken personal responsibility for her actions. She should have been on birth control.


Remember, if it was a "legitimate rape" her body has ways to shut it down and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant.

cosmicaug 18th July 2022 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnome (Post 13857745)
So... you don't agree with it, but just oppose it in a sort of lukewarm manner that evaporates completely if someone takes a tone you don't like.

If it's that easy to make you not care, I think that says something.

I'm going to propose something here. I know it's wild but please keep an open mind. Maybe he never cared?

cosmicaug 18th July 2022 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob001 (Post 13857757)
Religous leaders plan to make abortion a matter of religious freedom.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/re...out&li=BBnb7Kz

Yes. Of course. If only they try this one weird trick, choice advocates will prevail with the current SCOTUS (including with Clarence Thomas who has pretty much stated that there's nothing wrong with government establishing a religion as long as it happens at the state level).

That's the ticket!

Suddenly 18th July 2022 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13857938)
Yes. Of course. If only they try this one weird trick, choice advocates will prevail with the current SCOTUS (including with Clarence Thomas who has pretty much stated that there's nothing wrong with government establishing a religion as long as it happens at the state level).

That's the ticket!

It's a good political long term strategy as these things go and there is some value in stacking up awkward free exercise questions to assist in delegitimizing the present Court.

It's about forty years later than they should have been making religious pro-abortion arguments, but better late than never I guess.

Random 18th July 2022 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857673)
And I get that you haven't followed much of this thread.

I presented my general support of Roe for months here, my opposition to limiting abortion in cases of rape and incest, and my support of free birth control and education. Not good enough, though. Never will be.

But now, because of liberal inability to compromise and push on abortion matters, I don't care how this plays out. I will let the states decide, and be happy with that. And I certainly won't let a liberal outcry over the rape of a ten-year-old keep my focus off of the other 600k+ annual executions of the unborn.

What sort of compromise could there be? Either you believe that women have the right to control their own bodies, or you think that the rights of the unborn child overrides that. It's a binary proposition.

You could try to cover up the inherent one-or-the-other nature of the issue with an intellectually inconsistent patchwork of exceptions and timelines when your view leads to a result you don't like, but that doesn't solve things in the long run, as the GOP is learning.

Suddenly 18th July 2022 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13847291)
I don't know how many 10 year olds this happens to. Back of the envelope, probably enough not to make it rare. Certainly not rare enough to make the cited news blurbs about it be about an extraordinary claim (more like a claim that seems extraordinary if you are innumerate & are working backwards).

This is one of those things where the numbers we see are likely about to skyrocket. For all the good reasons in the world abortions involving extremely young children are done in extreme secrecy.

If that stops because of legal problems, the forced birth brigade is going to have their worst PR nightmare come true as case after case of pregnant pre-teens pop up in states with abortion bans. Which is a bigger and bigger issue as the average age of puberty drops and these states torpedo funding for things like sex ed and social services that might have prevented incestual rape before it resulted in pregnancy.

At some point these people are going to get the case of a ten year old girl knocked up by her eleven year old boyfriend. It will be interesting to see if they stay on that "consequences of sex" hill.

arayder 18th July 2022 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857673)
. . .I presented my general support of Roe for months here, my opposition to limiting abortion in cases of rape and incest, and my support of free birth control and education. Not good enough, though. Never will be.

But now, because of liberal inability to compromise and push on abortion matters, I don't care how this plays out. I will let the states decide, and be happy with that. And I certainly won't let a liberal outcry over the rape of a ten-year-old keep my focus off of the other 600k+ annual executions of the unborn.

One might argue that your equivocation regarding a woman's right to control her body and determine the course of her own health care is the problem, not liberalism.

One suspects that whether it's the right to immigrate, worship as one pleases or control one's own body, there isn't any right about which you won't waffle as long as you can fantasize that doing so somehow bothers liberals.

Regnad Kcin 18th July 2022 10:19 AM

Delete.

Regnad Kcin 18th July 2022 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857666)
This is an example of the tired approach of trying to use the very extreme outlier to represent the norm. And a pretty bad one. There were 600k+ abortions last year.

I get it, though. Trying to appeal to emotion. The ultimate liberal angle.

That dodge got a hemi?

Delphic Oracle 18th July 2022 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13857666)
This is an example of the tired approach of trying to use the very extreme outlier to represent the norm. And a pretty bad one. There were 600k+ abortions last year.

I get it, though. Trying to appeal to emotion. The ultimate liberal angle.

Like repeatedly demanding people answer a question about a nonexistent scenario?

There's a word for demanding that some stated standard apply to others that you don't follow yourself.

Warp12 18th July 2022 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle (Post 13858086)
Like repeatedly demanding people answer a question about a nonexistent scenario?

There's a word for demanding that some stated standard apply to others that you don't follow yourself.


The question wasn't about a "nonexistent scenario". The question was about condemning or supporting existing law that makes 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause legal.

And I got my answer. And it was disturbing.

wareyin 18th July 2022 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858091)
The question wasn't about a "nonexistent scenario". The question was about condemning or supporting existing law that makes 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause legal.
about a nonexistent scenario.
And I got my answer. And it was disturbing.

ftfy

Bob001 18th July 2022 11:18 AM

The impact of Dobbs on one clinic.
Quote:

We had planned on an increase in call volume and had good messaging on our website, but we couldn’t anticipate we were going to go from 100 phone calls to 600 in one day.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...on-island.html

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger (Post 13857844)
Did you misread the post you quoted?

From the link:

Me? Why no. I never, ever make mistakes. I just dig in and make up excuses as to why I wasn't wrong, move the goalposts, and mischaracterize what the op said.


Oh, dear. I think I'm channeling a Trump supporter. One of the downsides to being a medium.

/s :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

(Yes, I did)

Apathia 18th July 2022 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicaug (Post 13857938)
Yes. Of course. If only they try this one weird trick, choice advocates will prevail with the current SCOTUS (including with Clarence Thomas who has pretty much stated that there's nothing wrong with government establishing a religion as long as it happens at the state level).

That's the ticket!

States can have a state bird, state flower, state dessert. Why not a state religion and a state "We are all ____s!" holiday every year?
In Alabama you'll get to celebrate being a "Christian" by holding a rattle snake and drinking some Drano!

Seriously, this scares me.

shuttlt 18th July 2022 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly (Post 13857962)
At some point these people are going to get the case of a ten year old girl knocked up by her eleven year old boyfriend. It will be interesting to see if they stay on that "consequences of sex" hill.

The world is a fallen place full of situations where there is no course of action that is uncomplicatedly good, or correct. Thousands of years of theological and philosophical thought have gone in to exactly this kind of question. It might be that this can be politically used to undermine the recent SC decision, but it is hardly a moral issue of a previously unconsidered type that prominent people on the right are going to be blindsided by.

Suddenly 18th July 2022 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuttlt (Post 13858274)
The world is a fallen place full of situations where there is no course of action that is uncomplicatedly good, or correct. Thousands of years of theological and philosophical thought have gone in to exactly this kind of question. It might be that this can be politically used to undermine the recent SC decision, but it is hardly a moral issue of a previously unconsidered type that prominent people on the right are going to be blindsided by.

They seem awfully blindsided by this ten year old.

There is not thousands of years of whatzit. There has been fifty years of plutocratic sockpuppets making a mountain out of a molehill because they correctly calculated that they could get people to vote against their own interests if they got them to think that evil people were murdering babies.

shuttlt 18th July 2022 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly (Post 13858299)
They seem awfully blindsided by this ten year old.

There is not thousands of years of whatzit. There has been fifty years of plutocratic sockpuppets making a mountain out of a molehill because they correctly calculated that they could get people to vote against their own interests if they got them to think that evil people were murdering babies.

Do they? I'm kind of doubtful about that.

Warp12 18th July 2022 04:23 PM

Something goes bad for Dems....abortion for 10 y/o instantly shows up in the media.

You just gotta laugh. The outlier is suddenly the norm. And most people are too stupid to know differently. If only there were a group of critical thinkers to analyze this...where would we expect find them?

arayder 18th July 2022 04:30 PM

The ruse is to claim to embrace our God given rights and then equivocate about those rights in the hopes of raising the ire of liberals.

One pretends to recognize the right of individuals to travel and immigrate and then being sure to blow a dog whistle and tell us that faceless government immigration officials should be empowered keep out those who don't share “our culture”.

One claims to embrace freedom of religion. . .but a couple of posts later mouths the dog whistle again and moans about Sharia law.

One pretends to embrace Roe, but before the sun goes down goes off telling stories about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of mothers tossing their preemies in the trash.

It's bad enough that the ruse is thin, but the troublesome thing is that this marginalizes, some might say tramples, the rights of others just because one imagines it might get some liberals blood pressures numbers to spike.

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858377)
Something goes bad for Dems....abortion for 10 y/o instantly shows up in the media.

You just gotta laugh. The outlier is suddenly the norm. And most people are too stupid to know differently. If only there were a group of critical thinkers to analyze this...where would we expect find them?

Why don't you go look at a Trump Cult Website? Maybe 4chan, QAnon or Truth Social Media? I'm sure you'll find like-minded people there. We'll miss you but we'll understand.

Dr. Bernard's address has been made public by an anti-choice activist and she's received threats against her own daughter. Good company you'll have.

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13858382)
The ruse is to claim to embrace our God given rights and then equivocate about those rights in the hopes of raising the ire of liberals.

One pretends to recognize the right of individuals to travel and immigrate and then being sure to blow a dog whistle and tell us that faceless government immigration officials should be empowered keep out those who don't share “our culture”.

One claims to embrace freedom of religion. . .but a couple of posts later mouths the dog whistle again and moans about Sharia law.

One pretends to embrace Roe, but before the sun goes down goes off telling stories about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of mothers tossing their preemies in the trash.

It's bad enough that the ruse is thin, but the troublesome thing is that this marginalizes, some might say tramples, the rights of others just because one imagines it might get some liberals blood pressures numbers to spike.

In short, they lie.

Random 18th July 2022 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858377)
Something goes bad for Dems....abortion for 10 y/o instantly shows up in the media.

You just gotta laugh. The outlier is suddenly the norm. And most people are too stupid to know differently. If only there were a group of critical thinkers to analyze this...where would we expect find them?

I don't think that anyone is claiming the outlier is the norm (although in a country with over 300 million people something can be quite rare and still happen on a regular basis), the issue is what do we do when the outlier happens. With RvW in place, people in situations like this could just go off and quietly have an abortion out of the limelight and pro-lifers could just sort of ignore them. Post-RvW, stuff like this will happen and policy decisions must be made by states with pro-life governments, even if that decision is "we do nothing".

Sitting down with someone who is in the middle of a terrible tragedy and saying, "It's not so bad. What you are going through is statistically unlikely," is probably not going to offer much comfort to that person.

cosmicaug 18th July 2022 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13858405)
Sitting down with someone who is in the middle of a terrible tragedy and saying, "It's not so bad. What you are going through is statistically unlikely," is probably not going to offer much comfort to that person.

It's all a matter of perspective. What might superficially seem like a tragedy could, in fact, be pwning teh libs.

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random (Post 13858405)
I don't think that anyone is claiming the outlier is the norm (although in a country with over 300 million people something can be quite rare and still happen on a regular basis), the issue is what do we do when the outlier happens. With RvW in place, people in situations like this could just go off and quietly have an abortion out of the limelight and pro-lifers could just sort of ignore them. Post-RvW, stuff like this will happen and policy decisions must be made by states with pro-life governments, even if that decision is "we do nothing".

Sitting down with someone who is in the middle of a terrible tragedy and saying, "It's not so bad. What you are going through is statistically unlikely," is probably not going to offer much comfort to that person.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm sure that little girl's parents found great comfort in knowing the chances of their daughter being raped and getting pregnant were so low and she was just an 'outlier'.

I have zero doubt that many of those anti-choice advocates would hightail it a doctor for an abortion if their 10-11 year old were in that position.

arayder 18th July 2022 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13858382)
The ruse is to claim to embrace our God given rights and then equivocate about those rights in the hopes of raising the ire of liberals.

One pretends to recognize the right of individuals to travel and immigrate and then being sure to blow a dog whistle and tell us that faceless government immigration officials should be empowered keep out those who don't share “our culture”.

One claims to embrace freedom of religion. . .but a couple of posts later mouths the dog whistle again and moans about Sharia law.

One pretends to embrace Roe, but before the sun goes down goes off telling stories about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of mothers tossing their preemies in the trash.

It's bad enough that the ruse is thin, but the troublesome thing is that this marginalizes, some might say tramples, the rights of others just because one imagines it might get some liberals blood pressures numbers to spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13858403)
In short, they lie.

The presumption is that God's love and the rights given us are not universal.

This foul ruse makes God into an all-powerful bigot and puts some people beyond His grace.

This artifice is convenient for those who hold that the other is to be shunned. I don’t believe I need to recount the tyrants who have used this line to oppress.

Warp12 18th July 2022 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs (Post 13858411)
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm sure that little girl's parents found great comfort in knowing the chances of their daughter being raped and getting pregnant were so low and she was just an 'outlier'.


Cry me a river. We shouldn't be making policy based on the far outlier. If we can create good law to include them, great. If not, oh well. And this has nothing to do with stupid law...like permitting 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause...like most libs here seem to be totally accepting towards.

They came up with the expression of "bleeding heart liberals" for exactly such reasons. Trying to direct policy, and voters, based upon appealing to sensitivities for such matters as 10-year-old rape victims.

arayder 18th July 2022 06:25 PM

It’s bad enough that one claims non-Anglos, Muslins and mothers seeking late term abortions can and should be deprived of their God Given rights.

But we are now told that some people don’t have rights because there aren’t enough of them.

Delphic Oracle 18th July 2022 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858419)
Cry me a river. We shouldn't be making policy based on the far outlier. If we can create good law to include them, great. If not, oh well. And this has nothing to do with stupid law...like permitting 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause...like most libs here seem to be totally accepting towards.

They came up with the expression of "bleeding heart liberals" for exactly such reasons. Trying to direct policy, and voters, based upon appealing to sensitivities for such matters as 10-year-old rape victims.

It came from Westbrook Pegler writing a column blasting liberals for pushing a bill to curb lynching because it would "only" save about 14 lives a year.

But please, governor, proceed...

shemp 18th July 2022 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle (Post 13858430)
It came from Westbrook Pegler writing a column blasting liberals for pushing a bill to curb lynching because it would "only" save about 14 lives a year.

But please, governor, proceed...

Probably the only person who got kicked out of the John Birch Society for being too extreme.* One of the biggest ******** of all time.

* Correction: Revilo P. Oliver, one of the founders of the JBS, was also kicked out for being too far "out there." Also one of the biggest ******** of all time.

The Atheist 18th July 2022 07:57 PM

I don't know if this has been posted before, but it sums up where you're at in America right now regarding women's rights and the hypocrisy of the religious right.

https://jezebel.com/just-3-weeks-pos...e-t-1849188588

Quote:

Then in Texas, a hospital refused to save a woman’s life until her ectopic pregnancy ruptured, because the fetus still had a heartbeat. Texas, meanwhile has sued the Biden administration for the right to let pregnant people die rather than save them in these situations, and Idaho Republicans voted overwhelmingly this weekend to reject a “life of the mother” exception from its abortion platform.
Sickening.

shemp 18th July 2022 08:15 PM

deleted

thaiboxerken 18th July 2022 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858377)
Something goes bad for Dems....abortion for 10 y/o instantly shows up in the media.

You just gotta laugh. The outlier is suddenly the norm. And most people are too stupid to know differently. If only there were a group of critical thinkers to analyze this...where would we expect find them?

I don't think rape is funny.

arayder 18th July 2022 09:23 PM

This little 10 year old who got raped and impregnated isn't an "outlier".

She's not a poster child for liberal do gooders.

She's a child. A person.

And she isn't the only child getting raped and abused.

If one's heart doesn't bleed for this child and others in the same predicament as her, then one doesn't have a heart.

And who cares what heartless people have to say about building a safe, sane world for families and children?

gnome 18th July 2022 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858091)
The question wasn't about a "nonexistent scenario". The question was about condemning or supporting existing law that makes 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause legal.

And I got my answer. And it was disturbing.

Can I ask, why do you care? You certainly go out of your way to express how little you care about most other issues. And of course there is no shortage of irritating pro-life supporters. Doesn't that make you not give a crap, like it does for anything else?

arayder 18th July 2022 10:56 PM

He Cares?

Don't you see? To this one every issue, every news story. every political speech, every law, every court case exists only so as to used to bash liberals.

The usefulness, or lack there of, of the news story, speech, law, or court case doesn't count for anything with this one.

There is only one question: Can I use it to bash liberals?

The people involved don't even count. The 10 year-old rape victim is just an outlier. The desperate mother carrying her baby across the southern border isn't a mother, she's a threat to our way of life. The Muslim family struggling to make in America isn't a study in faith and courage, it's an opportunity shout SHARIA LAW! The mother carrying child that if brought to term will kill them both isn't a person dealing with a tragedy. . .she a baby killer who can be used as part of anti-choice propaganda.

In this way this one de-values and de-personalizes the very people liberals and conservatives struggle to help.

It is an un-christian, unMuslim, undemocratic, uncaring way to ruin the world.

Stacyhs 18th July 2022 11:42 PM

For one member, this is an exercise in hole digging...the deeper the better, it seems.:dig:

Susheel 19th July 2022 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp12 (Post 13858419)
Cry me a river. We shouldn't be making policy based on the far outlier. If we can create good law to include them, great. If not, oh well. And this has nothing to do with stupid law...like permitting 8 1/2 month abortions without medical cause...like most libs here seem to be totally accepting towards.

They came up with the expression of "bleeding heart liberals" for exactly such reasons. Trying to direct policy, and voters, based upon appealing to sensitivities for such matters as 10-year-old rape victims.

Yet you keep bombarding the thread with a dumb outlier hypothetical about very late-term pregnancies as apologia for your misogynistic stance on Roe vs Wade.

BobTheCoward 19th July 2022 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arayder (Post 13858521)
This little 10 year old who got raped and impregnated isn't an "outlier".

She's not a poster child for liberal do gooders.

She's a child. A person.

And she isn't the only child getting raped and abused.

If one's heart doesn't bleed for this child and others in the same predicament as her, then one doesn't have a heart.

And who cares what heartless people have to say about building a safe, sane world for families and children?

Which is apparently justification for that child to murder an even younger child

lionking 19th July 2022 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward (Post 13858676)
Which is apparently justification for that child to murder an even younger child

Huh? No smilies, so I assume it’s a serious post.

You consider a 10 year old raped and impregnated who decides to abort the rapist’s fetus a murderer? Show your work.


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