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-   -   Covid-19 and Politics (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342577)

P.J. Denyer 19th June 2020 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13130968)
so the world beating CrapApp has cost us 250,000,000 paid to Serco and it's now in the bin.
well played, they deserve to be in prison.

Don't they run the prison yet? What are they paying so many politicians for?

Andy_Ross 19th June 2020 07:00 PM

Servo did have contracts in the prisons and probation service

The Don 19th June 2020 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain (Post 13131135)
250,000,000?? For a bloody Android and iPhone app? I've heard of "sunk cost," but this is ridiculous! 2.5 million, maybe. But 250 million? Let me guess: one million went to the analysts and programmers, and 249 went to "consulting fees."

Also, is there a source for the 250 million number?

I think this is for the whole programme including the 25,000 human tracers, not just the app.

Squeegee Beckenheim 20th June 2020 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13131030)
US is headed for disaster.
And I blame the anti science arttitude on the right, for which the Christian Fundies are largely responsbile. Fact is the Fundies hate science because it conflicts with their book of Fairy Tales.

You do know this is the non-USA politics section, right? There's a covid and US politics thread in the US politics section.

Darat 20th June 2020 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13131512)
I think this is for the whole programme including the 25,000 human tracers, not just the app.

I've heard that the developer's contract was for 5 million, but that's from the grapevine so I can't prove it.

Darat 20th June 2020 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13131391)
Servo did have contracts in the prisons and probation service

And what a success they made of those contracts....

Carrot Flower King 20th June 2020 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13130985)
Because people are buying your government's bollocks about the Covid pandemic being basically over?

Only numpties like my next-door neighbour, who thinks Johnson is doing a good job.

A lot of the rest of us know better than to believe anything thhis shower say about pretty much anything: they aren't The Government of the No Talents for nothing.

jimbob 20th June 2020 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Other (Post 13130842)


From that:
Quote:

Status of COVID-19
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.

The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.

The need to have a national, coordinated response remains, but this is being met by the government’s COVID-19 response.

Cases of COVID-19 are no longer managed by HCID treatment centres only. All healthcare workers managing possible and confirmed cases should follow the updated national infection and prevention (IPC) guidance for COVID-19, which supersedes all previous IPC guidance for COVID-19. This guidance includes instructions about different personal protective equipment (PPE) ensembles that are appropriate for different clinical scenarios.
Yes the reasoning seems a little suspect.


Quote:

Definition of HCID
In the UK, a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) is defined according to the following criteria:

acute infectious disease
typically has a high case-fatality rate
may not have effective prophylaxis or treatment
often difficult to recognise and detect rapidly
ability to spread in the community and within healthcare settings
requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely
The highlighted is the only thing that is debatable. And with something like a 1% fatality rate and a high chance of infection, coupled with many more suffering long-term effects, this looks more like a political decision. And because of the behaviour of this government - they've lost the right to the benefit of the doubt.

At the time there was a fuss. Now it looks even worse.

Andy_Ross 20th June 2020 07:59 AM

CB/Dyson ventilators
Serco/Deloitte CV19 testing
Pestco
CummingsRelativeApp

Makes you think.

jimbob 20th June 2020 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13131752)
CB/Dyson ventilators
Serco/Deloitte CV19 testing
Pestco
CummingsRelativeApp

Makes you think.

And not COVID-19 related, but in the "let's reinvent the log roller when everyone else is discussing pneumatic tyres" game - the idea that the UK could be able to create an alternative to the Galileo/Glonass/GPS system. Obviously it could, because the UK is *still* richer than Russia, but it would be utterly stupid.

Or, the strong rumours about leaving the Erasmus scheme and trying to start it's own one.

zooterkin 20th June 2020 11:24 AM

Farage is in the US, presumably to attend a Trump rally. Not clear how he was allowed in, how he justified it as essential travel, nor whether he’ll abide by quarantine regulations on his return to the UK.

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/sta...141980672?s=21

P.J. Denyer 20th June 2020 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13131752)
CB/Dyson ventilators
Serco/Deloitte CV19 testing
Pestco
CummingsRelativeApp

Makes you think.


Clipper Logistics

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/02/d...ovid19-crisis/

Andy_Ross 20th June 2020 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13131992)
Farage is in the US, presumably to attend a Trump rally. Not clear how he was allowed in, how he justified it as essential travel, nor whether hell abide by quarantine regulations on his return to the UK.

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/sta...141980672?s=21

The law requires Farage to self-isolate for 14 days on return to England:
He doesn't fall under any exceptions. He can leave home for very few reasons (not including work or race-baiting).
A constable can use 'reasonable force' to return him to his home.

Andy_Ross 20th June 2020 02:18 PM

Spain to allow UK tourists without quarantine from Sunday

The Don 20th June 2020 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13131992)
Farage is in the US, presumably to attend a Trump rally. Not clear how he was allowed in, how he justified it as essential travel, nor whether hell abide by quarantine regulations on his return to the UK.

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/sta...141980672?s=21

How'd he get into the States. Thought that there was a UK travel ban

Trebuchet 20th June 2020 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13132071)
Spain to allow UK tourists without quarantine from Sunday

That seems somewhat unwise!

Andy_Ross 20th June 2020 02:44 PM

Apparently Farage was allowed in to the US under the 'national interest' clause

Mr Fied 20th June 2020 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13132092)
Apparently Farage was allowed in to the US under the 'national interest' clause

The national interest of the UK?

Get him out of the country and don't let him back.

Blue Mountain 20th June 2020 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13131512)
I think this is for the whole programme including the 25,000 human tracers, not just the app.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13131624)
I've heard that the developer's contract was for 5 million, but that's from the grapevine so I can't prove it.

Whew! That's good to hear. I think even 5 million may be too much for the two apps and supporting infrastructure, but it's a much more sane number than 250!

P.J. Denyer 21st June 2020 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13132055)
The law requires Farage to self-isolate for 14 days on return to England:
He doesn't fall under any exceptions. He can leave home for very few reasons (not including work or race-baiting).
A constable can use 'reasonable force' to return him to his home.

If I was benevolent dictator it would be a lot longer. And that law would have been in place for decades.

Lothian 21st June 2020 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13131992)
Farage is in the US, presumably to attend a Trump rally.

But sad when you import foreigners to swell the numbers but still can't half fill a venue.

Andy_Ross 21st June 2020 02:54 AM

On Sky News.

When asked why warnings that Apple technology wouldn’t work with UK government app as far back as April

Matt Hancock blamed Apple for failing to co-operate with a 'democratically elected government' on the coronavirus app for its failure.

Terrorism was to blame as well apparently

Lothian 21st June 2020 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13132474)
On Sky News.

When asked why warnings that Apple technology wouldnt work with UK government app as far back as April

Matt Hancock blamed Apple for failing to co-operate with a 'democratically elected government' on the coronavirus app for its failure.

Terrorism was to blame as well apparently

No better tactic than slagging off in public the people you are relying on to get you out of the hole you dug for yourself.

Andy_Ross 21st June 2020 09:13 AM

Reuters
@Reuters
UK PM Johnson to announce new 'one metre plus' social distancing rule: Telegraph https://reut.rs/2V1gWta

I wouldn’t trust that **** to tell me when to put the bins out never mind advise us on how to reintegrate during a pandemic.

Trebuchet 21st June 2020 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13132055)
The law requires Farage to self-isolate for 14 days on return to England:
He doesn't fall under any exceptions. He can leave home for very few reasons (not including work or race-baiting).
A constable can use 'reasonable force' to return him to his home.

Do you think he'll actually abide by that?
Did he actually attend the Trump rally?

zooterkin 21st June 2020 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebuchet (Post 13133036)
Do you think he'll actually abide by that?
Did he actually attend the Trump rally?

Yes, he did. He apparently got a special exemption from the US travel ban.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ni...p-rally-451858

Andy_Ross 21st June 2020 05:10 PM

If you could end the coronavirus pandemic by sacrificing one person, who would you choose and why Boris?

Trebuchet 21st June 2020 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13133141)
If you could end the coronavirus pandemic by sacrificing one person, who would you choose and why Boris?

Sadly, he already survived it, so I'm choosing Trump.

The Don 22nd June 2020 01:40 AM

It's looking increasingly like Boris Johnson will announce that pubs in England iwll be opening again soon:

Quote:

Boris Johnson is expected to announce on Tuesday if the hospitality sector can reopen on 4 July and if the 2m distancing rule in England can be relaxed.

Non-essential shops have reopened in England already, with retail resuming in Wales from today.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock earlier said England is "clearly on track" to further ease lockdown restrictions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53129845

Yes, England is on track because the decision making process isn't driven by the science any longer, it's driven by the economy and public sentiment. :mad:

Out local award-winning micropub, the Queen's Head, opened for off-sales on Friday and managed to sell 3 firkins (over 200 pints) in an hour and a half. The landlord was able to get three more for Saturday and trade was slow, it took nearly 2 hours to sell out. This is far more beer than he'd ordinarily sell (the pub only seats 10) but people are eager to support local businesses :)

Squeegee Beckenheim 22nd June 2020 02:05 AM

The thing is - if we'd locked down hard and early, we could have had similar results to New Zealand - bringing cases down so low that we could have almost completely re-opened after a much shorter lockdown. As it is we're just setting the stage for a) tonnes more people dying, b) another lockdown later in the year, or c) a & b.

The Don 22nd June 2020 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim (Post 13133480)
The thing is - if we'd locked down hard and early, we could have had similar results to New Zealand - bringing cases down so low that we could have almost completely re-opened after a much shorter lockdown. As it is we're just setting the stage for a) tonnes more people dying, b) another lockdown later in the year, or c) a & b.

That would have required:
  • Listening to the scientists
  • Learning from foreigners
  • Working to create a consensus
  • Strong leadership
  • Decisive action
  • Sticking to a course of action

Any one of these is beyond the compass of the current crop of shirkers, dilettantes, grifters and imbeciles who make up the UK's government. :mad:

P.J. Denyer 22nd June 2020 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13133474)
It's looking increasingly like Boris Johnson will announce that pubs in England iwll be opening again soon:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53129845

Yes, England is on track because the decision making process isn't driven by the science any longer, it's driven by the economy and public sentiment. :mad:

Out local award-winning micropub, the Queen's Head, opened for off-sales on Friday and managed to sell 3 firkins (over 200 pints) in an hour and a half. The landlord was able to get three more for Saturday and trade was slow, it took nearly 2 hours to sell out. This is far more beer than he'd ordinarily sell (the pub only seats 10) but people are eager to support local businesses :)


The only science Boris is interested in is "You've already had it so you're probably safe".

My local has been doing delivery pizzas at the weekends as they have a log fired pizza oven, to be honest they haven't been anywhere near as good as when I've had them on the premises, possibly they don't have their chef at the moment as most chefs come from abroad and may have gone home before lockdown*, but I've still had them a couple of times as I want to do my bit to help them survive it's a great pub, dog friendly and has a nice garden (which, if it goes under will probably end up with another half dozen houses on it).


*Possibly it's just my perception, I was given a pizza oven a while back and modesty aside I do a really nice one, 24hr dough, fresh basil in the sauce, at least three cheeses.

Darat 22nd June 2020 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13133488)
That would have required:
  • Listening to the scientists
  • Learning from foreigners
  • Working to create a consensus
  • Strong leadership
  • Decisive action
  • Sticking to a course of action

Any one of these is beyond the compass of the current crop of shirkers, dilettantes, grifters and imbeciles who make up the UK's government. :mad:


And attending Cobra meetings...

Andy_Ross 22nd June 2020 06:18 AM

New outbreaks in Germany.
This is what happens when a country which had a far more effective lockdown and far more clear messaging from government goes back to "normal" good luck Britain.

lomiller 22nd June 2020 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13131992)
Farage is in the US, presumably to attend a Trump rally. Not clear how he was allowed in, how he justified it as essential travel, nor whether hell abide by quarantine regulations on his return to the UK.

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/sta...141980672?s=21

Maybe hes planning on having an eye test whole hes there to cover off the quarantine and travel issues.

dann 22nd June 2020 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13133492)
The only science Boris is interested in is "You've already had it so you're probably safe".


Then he won't approve of this: Studies Report Rapid Loss of COVID-19 Antibodies - The results, while preliminary, suggest that survivors of SARS-CoV-2 infection may be susceptible to reinfection within weeks or months. (The Scientist, June 19, 2020)

P.J. Denyer 22nd June 2020 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13133518)
And attending Cobra meetings...

Maybe cancelling/cutting short his February holiday...

P.J. Denyer 22nd June 2020 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomiller (Post 13133694)
Maybe hes planning on having an eye test whole hes there to cover off the quarantine and travel issues.

perfectly reasonable, just make sure he has an appropriate car for it. What was that one that kept blowing up?

The Don 23rd June 2020 03:30 AM

More news on UK excess deaths:

Quote:

The total number of "excess deaths" in the UK since the coronavirus outbreak began has now passed 65,000.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

That's nearly 0.1% of the UK population. The current estimate is that around 5% of the UK population has been , or is, infected. This has the capacity to run and run especially if no effective vaccine is found and if immunity is temporary for those who have had it.

The Don 23rd June 2020 03:37 AM

While the government is rushing headlong to open up the economy as quickly as they can, business owners are complaining that they haven't had the guidance necessary to make sure they're safe and don't have enough time to set up properly:

Quote:

But how prepared are businesses to reopen with social distancing guidelines in place? The BBC has spoken to a pub, a salon and a B&B.

All point out different things. "I'm feeling really anxious about reopening as I just don't know what's coming," says B&B owner Lindsey Holland from Gloucestershire.
Quote:

Meanwhile Simon Daws, who runs a pub in Cheltenham, says he's not confident that reopening will be a success.

"We really need more notice than a couple of weeks to get the right beer in and get staff back from furlough, but we want people to come back to the pub."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Which is business as usual for this government, make a grand announcement in haste with little or no thought or guidance and then leave the "trivial" details of actually making it work to other people (who can then be blamed when it inevitably goes horribly wrong). :mad:

Tolls 23rd June 2020 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13133992)
perfectly reasonable, just make sure he has an appropriate car for it. What was that one that kept blowing up?

Ford Pinto.
:)

Darat 23rd June 2020 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer (Post 13133992)
perfectly reasonable, just make sure he has an appropriate car for it. What was that one that kept blowing up?

You mean the newly repainted Cabinet car?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1e75436c6e.jpg

Andy_Ross 23rd June 2020 05:38 AM

UK PM Boris Johnson tells MPs that restaurants, pubs and hairdressers will reopen in England from 4 July
Mr Johnson says 2m distancing rule is being reduced to 1m plus
Cinemas, museums and other attractions will also reopen, but not "close proximity" venues like indoor gyms

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53146191

The Don 23rd June 2020 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13134809)
UK PM Boris Johnson tells MPs that restaurants, pubs and hairdressers will reopen in England from 4 July
Mr Johnson says 2m distancing rule is being reduced to 1m plus
Cinemas, museums and other attractions will also reopen, but not "close proximity" venues like indoor gyms

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53146191

Great idea. There's no way that people sitting in a cinema, 1 metre apart, could be the source of a super-spreader event. :rolleyes:

I'd rather be in the gym, especially if you book a session and the equipment is cleaned assiduously afterwards - though in truth I'd rather not go to the gym either.

P.J. Denyer 23rd June 2020 06:31 AM

I was surprised about Johnson's phrasing when he spoke of putting a 'human shield' around the NHS, human shields are there to be, if necessary, sacrificed to protect something else and it isn't normally considered a good thing, in fact it's the opposite of what the NHS is about. I'm sure it's not what he intended but it made me think of all the people that have died in care homes.

Andy_Ross 23rd June 2020 07:16 AM

Boris confirming that from the 4th of July everyone can drive blind to Barnard Castle, jump off Durdle Door and do a conga round Wetherspoons

The Don 23rd June 2020 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13134887)
Boris confirming that from the 4th of July everyone can drive blind to Barnard Castle, jump off Durdle Door and do a conga round Wetherspoons

Only if they live in England.

I live in Wales, really need to get to Barnard Castle (in the process of selling my late father's home there) but cannot travel further than a recommended 5 miles from my home for anything other than essential reasons.

That said, I'm glad that the Welsh government is taking things slowly. I'm more eager not to have Coronavirus than I am to have a pint at The Lion.

zooterkin 23rd June 2020 08:19 AM

Theatres can open, but not have any live entertainment.

Outdoor music events are not yet allowed, as that would constitute a mass gathering. Not sure why that is less safe than an enclosed theatre or cinema.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ning-on-4-july

The Don 23rd June 2020 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooterkin (Post 13134967)
Theatres can open, but not have any live entertainment.

Outdoor music events are not yet allowed, as that would constitute a mass gathering. Not sure why that is less safe than an enclosed theatre or cinema.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ning-on-4-july

Maybe it's perceived to be more difficult to enforce social distancing outside ? :confused:

zooterkin 23rd June 2020 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13134809)
Mr Johnson says 2m distancing rule is being reduced to 1m plus

... in places where 2m distancing cannot be adhered to.


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