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-   -   General UK politics (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

sphenisc 1st December 2021 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13668946)
Boris Johnson demonstrating once again that it's one rule for him and his mates and another for the hoi polloi





https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59491568

How is the PM not attending it and example of that?

The Don 1st December 2021 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphenisc (Post 13668965)
How is the PM not attending it and example of that?

A party held for the Prime Minister's staff.

Unless he had no knowledge of it either before it happened, or afterwards and none of the attendees could be classified as mates then I think "one rule for him and his mates and another for the hoi polloi" is an adequate description.

Darat 1st December 2021 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphenisc (Post 13668965)
How is the PM not attending it and example of that?

It isn’t but that wasn’t your point was it? :rolleyes:

Darat 1st December 2021 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13669031)
A party held for the Prime Minister's staff.

Unless he had no knowledge of it either before it happened, or afterwards and none of the attendees could be classified as mates then I think "one rule for him and his mates and another for the hoi polloi" is an adequate description.

And it really couldn’t be clearer that they did indeed breach the very rules they were telling us we had to follow:

Adam Bienkov (@AdamBienkov) Tweeted:
How Boris Johnson’s spokespeople answered questions today about whether the Prime Minister broke Covid rules by having parties in Downing Street during lockdown. https://t.co/5nknYjs5hO

ETA: And no I haven’t accidentally linked you to the script for a new version of Yes Minister, that is indeed how the office of the PM still acts.

Carrot Flower King 1st December 2021 10:36 AM

BlowJob, however, WAS at a do at Downing Street in November last, under supposed lockdown - https://www.theguardian.com/politics...last-christmas - and something similar has just been reported on PM on R4.

Whichever way you look at it, he's head of government, making those rules, and in the buildings forming the heart of our government, i.e. Downing Street, he and his underlings were pissing all over those lockdown rules. Even if he wasn't actually present at one or other of these dos (and who knows what to believe of the official statements, made by professional liars about and on behalf of a congenital liar), he's still responsible as their boss.

GlennB 1st December 2021 10:41 AM

From the BBC :

"After @PippaCrerar
and @danbloom1
scoop this morning, we're told by an attendee of drinks in No 10 on Dec 18th that there were 'several dozen' people there, with food, drink and games which went on past midnight... https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59491568 - No 10's said all rules were followed"

sphenisc 1st December 2021 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13669079)
It isn’t but that wasn’t your point was it? :rolleyes:

Yes it was.. :rolleyes:

Darat 1st December 2021 11:13 AM

Of course it was…

Andy_Ross 1st December 2021 05:15 PM

51 weeks in Prison for protesting.

Carrot Flower King 2nd December 2021 03:12 AM

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but, in this - https://www.theguardian.com/politics...claims-rubbish - piece is Matt Hancock not telling what everyone else would describe as a lie?

He told the House of Commons that the DoH did not control sub-contracting and yet the Guardian has a copy of a contract signed by the DoH on his behalf specifying that his mate's firm should be the only sub-contractor...

When is a lie not a lie?

Darat 2nd December 2021 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13669689)
….snip…

When is a lie not a lie?


When it profits a mate!

Andy_Ross 2nd December 2021 04:47 AM

Please remember to vote Conservative in the by-election today if you enjoy seeing toffs getting pissed up at crowded Christmas parties while your relatives die alone.

The Don 2nd December 2021 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13669716)
Please remember to vote Conservative in the by-election today if you enjoy seeing toffs getting pissed up at crowded Christmas parties while your relatives die alone.

Don't worry, people will :mad:

GlennB 2nd December 2021 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13669716)
Please remember to vote Conservative in the by-election today if you enjoy seeing toffs getting pissed up at crowded Christmas parties while your relatives die alone.

At the 2019 election CON took Old Bexley and Sidcup with 64.5% of the vote.

I'm guessing that will be reduced a little to around 60%, and can only dream things will go a lot worse for them.

Carrot Flower King 3rd December 2021 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13669722)
At the 2019 election CON took Old Bexley and Sidcup with 64.5% of the vote.

I'm guessing that will be reduced a little to around 60%, and can only dream things will go a lot worse for them.

51.5% on a 34% turnout and a swing of 10% to Labour.

Andy_Ross 4th December 2021 05:04 AM

ALASTAIR CAMPBELL tweeted
@campbellclaret
·
43m
The Johnson cheerleading right wing rags lead on him promising to ‘leave no stone unturned’ to ensure no more little Arthurs failed by the system. These will be the stones he found when ‘moving heaven and earth’ to free Nazanin and get Afghans who helped the UK to safety

Carrot Flower King 5th December 2021 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13671536)
ALASTAIR CAMPBELL tweeted
@campbellclaret
·
43m
The Johnson cheerleading right wing rags lead on him promising to ‘leave no stone unturned’ to ensure no more little Arthurs failed by the system. These will be the stones he found when ‘moving heaven and earth’ to free Nazanin and get Afghans who helped the UK to safety

Well, if his party and governments of which he was part had not hacked social services spending to ribbons since 2010, had not hacked school nursing services (I don't know why articles about this case are talking about health visitors, as the bairn was of an age to be under school nursing not health visiting) to ribbons, not reduced the spending on other allied services and all the rest, then I just might listen to a word he says. But he was , so I won't.

Just to repeat things I've said before: my service, from which I retired in 2013, was in the same building as the local Children's Services team (we sub-let to them), so I saw and heard on a daily basis about their reductions in budgets, reduced staffing, inability to do anything but statutory investigations, and even those were backed up, and the consequent high staff turn over and loss of the more experienced staff. The same was happening down the road with educational welfare and educational psychology and other in-school support services. It was also happening in local health services, as school nursing was cut and we, the local CAMHS, were also cut. Grants were withdrawn from charitable sector organisations, who provided some excellent specialist support, which no-one else was in a position to replicate to the same level, as there was no slack left anywhere and we were well beyond running to stand still. BlowJob and his mates were responsible for this.

We've all read and understood the reports into Victoria Climbie, Baby P, Jasmine Beckford and all the rest; we all know the provisions of the Children Act and other relevant legislation; I've taken part in child death (for other reasons) investigations and thus been party to making local recommendations; loads of folk know what needs to be done, but if the resources are not provided (yes, central government, that's your responsibiliy) then all that knowledge and experience is useless...

Mojo 5th December 2021 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13669722)
At the 2019 election CON took Old Bexley and Sidcup with 64.5% of the vote.

I'm guessing that will be reduced a little to around 60%, and can only dream things will go a lot worse for them.


Edward Heath’s old constituency, pretty safely Tory.

Carrot Flower King 5th December 2021 11:03 AM

Right, there are still several thousand households without leccy up here, mostly in Co Durham but some in Northumberland...

The gubbmint have somehow worked out where Penshaw is and sent Kwasi Kwarteng up here to spout some bollocks.

They're all trotting out the same line that the North East is not being treated differently to how the South East would be (I reckon there are a lot of people who will take a huuuuuuuge amount of convincing), as there are problems with remoteness and hills and stuff.

OK, this would be true for some of the places who were off for some time - St John's Chapel up Weardale, Langdon Beck (where my cousins used to live) up Teesdale, the top of the Coquet Valley, ther far side of Cheviot - however, this does not apply to Dissington, which is around 3 km from Darras Hall and Ponteland (Darras Hall is one of the wealthiest parts of the North East, where footballists live) or Waterhouses, the village about 10km west of Durham City which my mum and her dad before her were born in.

I'm afraid, Kwasi, BlowJob and the rest of you that some better excuses are required as these ones sound like, at best, ignorant bollocks or, more likely, wilfully ignorant lies.

Andy_Ross 5th December 2021 02:19 PM

Parliament drug use claims to be raised with police this week

House of Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has promised to raise allegations of drug use in Parliament with the Metropolitan Police this week.
He described a report in the Sunday Times that traces of cocaine had been found in several lavatory areas as "deeply concerning".
Sir Lindsay told the BBC that those who "flout the law" should face punishment.

The Sunday Time reports all but one of 12 lavatory areas in Parliament that were tested showed traces of cocaine, adding the House of Commons Commission - responsible for the running of the Palace of Westminster - was considering allowing the use of sniffer dogs to detect users.

Sir Lindsay told the BBC: "The accounts of drug misuse in Parliament given to the Sunday Times are deeply concerning, and I will be raising them as a priority with the Metropolitan Police next week. I expect to see full and effective enforcement of the law.
"While Parliament provides extensive support services for any staff or Members who may need help with drug misuse - and I would encourage anyone struggling with such issues to take up such help - for those who choose to flout the law and bring the institution into disrepute the sanctions are serious."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59539589

Nothing will come of it, both Raab and the Met have said that the Police can't investigate things that happened in the past.

Nessie 6th December 2021 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennB (Post 13669109)
From the BBC :

"After @PippaCrerar
and @danbloom1
scoop this morning, we're told by an attendee of drinks in No 10 on Dec 18th that there were 'several dozen' people there, with food, drink and games which went on past midnight... https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59491568 - No 10's said all rules were followed"

People who work together, who stay on and have a party, is not the same as, or as risky as, people who are not normally together, gathering somewhere for a party. But, the principle was no parties at that time.

The claim by Raab that the police don't normally investigate after a year is false, according to the London Standard, the Met have investigated other parties back from that time.

I do not know how big Downing St is, but is it possible to party when the police are outside, as they are 24/7, and they not know? Otherwise, are those police officers not in neglect of duty for not acting when they knew a crime was being committed.

Nessie 6th December 2021 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13672641)
Parliament drug use claims to be raised with police this week

House of Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has promised to raise allegations of drug use in Parliament with the Metropolitan Police this week.
He described a report in the Sunday Times that traces of cocaine had been found in several lavatory areas as "deeply concerning".
Sir Lindsay told the BBC that those who "flout the law" should face punishment.

The Sunday Time reports all but one of 12 lavatory areas in Parliament that were tested showed traces of cocaine, adding the House of Commons Commission - responsible for the running of the Palace of Westminster - was considering allowing the use of sniffer dogs to detect users.

Sir Lindsay told the BBC: "The accounts of drug misuse in Parliament given to the Sunday Times are deeply concerning, and I will be raising them as a priority with the Metropolitan Police next week. I expect to see full and effective enforcement of the law.
"While Parliament provides extensive support services for any staff or Members who may need help with drug misuse - and I would encourage anyone struggling with such issues to take up such help - for those who choose to flout the law and bring the institution into disrepute the sanctions are serious."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59539589

Nothing will come of it, both Raab and the Met have said that the Police can't investigate things that happened in the past.

Since banknotes are regularly used for cocaine use, at one time or another, you could have tested positive for cocaine. You could have also picked up traces of cocaine from using a public toilet. Someone snorts cocaine, wipes their nose, does not wash their hand, uses the toilet door lock and you enter next.

This could be all down to one unhygienic member of staff.

Darat 6th December 2021 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessie (Post 13673132)
Since banknotes are regularly used for cocaine use, at one time or another, you could have tested positive for cocaine. You could have also picked up traces of cocaine from using a public toilet. Someone snorts cocaine, wipes their nose, does not wash their hand, uses the toilet door lock and you enter next.

This could be all down to one unhygienic member of staff.

And we now know the police have a policy of not investigating potential crimes that happened in the past.

Andy_Ross 6th December 2021 05:15 AM

Boris Johnson is planning to let ministers throw out legal rulings they disagree with, according to a report which has increased fears that the government is determined to weaken judicial scrutiny after a series of defeats in court.

An ally of the prime minister told the Times that the judicial review and courts bill going through parliament “doesn’t go far enough” for the prime minister, who is considering an option, drawn up by the lord chancellor, Dominic Raab, and the attorney general, Suella Braverman, which would enable it to strike out findings from judicial reviews with which the government does not agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-disagree-with

Then there will be no law.
On the threshold of full-blown dictatorship.

Andy_Ross 6th December 2021 06:54 AM

No 10 confirms the Government’s flagship ‘levelling up’ white paper has been delayed again to January 2022.

Boris Johnson is “absolutely not” bored of the idea, his official spokesman says.

I suppose the lie has served it's purpose.

File under 40 new hospitals.

Mojo 6th December 2021 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673164)
Boris Johnson is planning to let ministers throw out legal rulings they disagree with, according to a report which has increased fears that the government is determined to weaken judicial scrutiny after a series of defeats in court.

An ally of the prime minister told the Times that the judicial review and courts bill going through parliament “doesn’t go far enough” for the prime minister, who is considering an option, drawn up by the lord chancellor, Dominic Raab, and the attorney general, Suella Braverman, which would enable it to strike out findings from judicial reviews with which the government does not agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-disagree-with

Then there will be no law.
On the threshold of full-blown dictatorship.


Also from that story:
Quote:

In the wake of the Mail on Sunday’s failed appeal over its publication of a letter written by Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, to her estranged father, Raab said he wanted to rectify “the drift towards continental-style privacy laws, innovated in the courtroom, not by elected lawmakers in the House of Commons”.

Great. We have a Lord Chancellor who doesn’t know how our common law legal system works.

The Don 6th December 2021 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13673289)
Also from that story:


Great. We have a Lord Chancellor who doesn’t know how our common law legal system works.

To be fair, he didn't know that a lot of the UK's trade came through Dover so it'll probably take him a while to become familiar with the common law legal system.

3point14 6th December 2021 11:12 AM

Meanwhile the UK government is promising to attack successful middle class drug users and to take away their passports (so they can't go on expensive holidays any more) and their driving licenses (So they can't drive the cars they're paying for).

They're doing this because doing drugs will ruin your life...

Filippo Lippi 6th December 2021 11:23 AM

Talking about what Raab does know is going to save us a hell of a lot of time

Andy_Ross 6th December 2021 01:42 PM

Does anyone remember when Conservative Governments supported the Rule of Law?

The Don 6th December 2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673456)
Does anyone remember when Conservative Governments supported the Rule of Law?

Maybe in public, but as far as I can remember they've always been flexible when it's come to the better sort of people

3point14 6th December 2021 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673456)
Does anyone remember when Conservative Governments supported the Rule of Law?

They pretty much have always supported the rule of laws. Where there's one for them and one for everyone else.

Mojo 6th December 2021 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673164)
Boris Johnson is planning to let ministers throw out legal rulings they disagree with, according to a report which has increased fears that the government is determined to weaken judicial scrutiny after a series of defeats in court.

An ally of the prime minister told the Times that the judicial review and courts bill going through parliament “doesn’t go far enough” for the prime minister, who is considering an option, drawn up by the lord chancellor, Dominic Raab, and the attorney general, Suella Braverman, which would enable it to strike out findings from judicial reviews with which the government does not agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-disagree-with


They’re going FOTL: “I do not consent!”

Mojo 6th December 2021 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673164)
Boris Johnson is planning to let ministers throw out legal rulings they disagree with, according to a report which has increased fears that the government is determined to weaken judicial scrutiny after a series of defeats in court.

An ally of the prime minister told the Times that the judicial review and courts bill going through parliament “doesn’t go far enough” for the prime minister, who is considering an option, drawn up by the lord chancellor, Dominic Raab, and the attorney general, Suella Braverman, which would enable it to strike out findings from judicial reviews with which the government does not agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-disagree-with

Then there will be no law.
On the threshold of full-blown dictatorship.


From The Times’ coverage of the same story (front page of today’s paper):
Quote:

Whitehall sources argue that the bills would reinforce the constitutional principle that parliament is sovereign over the unelected judiciary.

“Whitehall sources” that don’t know the difference between the legislature and the executive. Parliament is sovereign over the judges, and can overrule them by passing legislation. Our elected representatives, voting on legislation. But the cabinet is not above the law.

The Don 7th December 2021 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13673562)
From The Times’ coverage of the same story (front page of today’s paper):


“Whitehall sources” that don’t know the difference between the legislature and the executive. Parliament is sovereign over the judges, and can overrule them by passing legislation. Our elected representatives, voting on legislation. But the cabinet is not above the law.

Don't know the difference, or know the difference but want to hoodwink the public into allowing the cabinet to overrule the courts ?

Ordinarily, I'd assume ignorance and incompetence from this government, but they've breached behavioural norms too many times to make this one not a deliberate action. They've repeatedly shown that they don't want to be constrained by parliament or the courts, this is the logical next step. :(

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 04:53 AM

Sally Nugent BBC Breakfast - "Would you support an official investigation into the party at No.10 that broke covid rules?"

Kit Malthouse ( Minister of State for Crime and Policing) - "I've been assured no rules were broken, I don't even know if an event took place, but if it did no rules were broken."

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 04:55 AM

My friend wasn’t driving the car, and I wasn’t in at at the time, but if he was he wasn’t drunk, and if I was, I didn’t know that he was driving or drunk.

'there was no party'
'there was no party but it followed guidelines'
'ok there was a party but it was in the past so it doesn't matter'
'vaccines, getting the job done, levelling up, war on drugs'

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 04:57 AM

Ros Atkins BBC News tweeted

@BBCRosAtkins
The government says “there was not a party” at No 10 last December and that no COVID rules were broken. A week into the story, this is a new 5-min video on the gap between the government’s assurances and available evidence. Produced by Michael Cox.

https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59532066

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 06:07 AM

Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.



Just as soon as the 40 new hospitals are finished.

The Don 7th December 2021 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673898)
Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.


Just as soon as the 40 new hospitals are finished.

The government has lowered the bar as to what constitutes a new hospital so far that changing one of the vending machines from Coke to Pepsi now counts.:rolleyes:

Darat 7th December 2021 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673898)
Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.



Just as soon as the 40 new hospitals are finished.

They said they were doing that 10 years ago....

Perhaps reducing actual staffing by 30%, reassigning prison officer's roles to OSGs, closing down in house workshops and training, removing in house medical services and so on didn't work....

Worm 7th December 2021 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13673898)
Dominic Raab tweeted

@DominicRaab
United Kingdom government official
· 4h
Today I’m setting out my plan to build state of the art jails that incarcerate dangerous offenders and reform the regime in prison to get offenders off drugs and into work – to cut re-offending and keep the public safe.

Ok - I'm intruiged - what was the previous plan?

sphenisc 7th December 2021 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13673949)
Ok - I'm intruiged - what was the previous plan?

More Christmas parties at Downing Street.

Darat 7th December 2021 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13673949)
Ok - I'm intruiged - what was the previous plan?

It was to downgrade the POs contracts, move many of their responsibilities to cheaper OSGs, and have their mates build private prisons which would be cheaper and better!

That has been as successful as you can imagine.
G4S stripped of contract to run Birmingham prison

Most violent prison in England and Wales returned to public control on permanent basis

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13673953)
It was to downgrade the POs contracts, move many of their responsibilities to cheaper OSGs, and have their mates build private prisons which would be cheaper and better!

That has been as successful as you can imagine.
G4S stripped of contract to run Birmingham prison

Most violent prison in England and Wales returned to public control on permanent basis

But the money was transferred from public to private which is what counts.

The Don 7th December 2021 10:06 AM

For some reason Northern PowerGrid send me updates about power outages - presumably my email is on record with respect to Daddy Don's now closed account.

There are a lot of unplanned outages due to Storm Barra:

https://www.northernpowergrid.com/power-cuts

Carrot Flower King 7th December 2021 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darat (Post 13673905)
They said they were doing that 10 years ago....

Perhaps reducing actual staffing by 30%, reassigning prison officer's roles to OSGs, closing down in house workshops and training, removing in house medical services and so on didn't work....

Nor did cutting NHS and other drug and alcohol services...Nor prison health services provided by the NHS...

Amazing how all this cutting of services hasn't made staff some much more wonderfully efficient and able to do twice as much work as their previous stupidly high caseloads...

Especially with all those incredibly intelligent managers who have brilliant answers to questions like the one I asked regularly, "OK, if you want to do all those extra things, what do you want me to stop doing, given my caseload already exceeds agreed guidelines?" The answers were so sodding brilliant that they must have burned out my memory, as I just cannot recall what I was told...

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 12:29 PM

Latest in 'PM not involved in evacuating animals from Afghanistan ahead of people'

Theo Usherwood Political Editor LBC tweeted
@theousherwood
At lunchtime Number 10 said a whistleblower’s claim the PM and his wife were involved in the evacuation of Nowzad staff was “untrue”.
Just been passed a letter from the PM’s PPS Trudy Harrison to Pen Farthing to confirm Nowzad staff could travel to the airport to be evacuated.

Andy_Ross 7th December 2021 12:31 PM

the thing about the Downing St Christmas party is that it was after the Barnard Castle escapade, it's as if they'd learned nothing.

ETA.

I take that back, they learned that there are no consequences.

Nessie 7th December 2021 01:02 PM

https://www.itv.com/news

"ITV News has obtained a leaked video showing Downing Street staff laughing about a party which was allegedly held in Number 10 last Christmas."

At the moment, it appears the claim is a cheese and wine amongst people who were working together. The law stated 3 or more people could not gather indoors to socialise, but they can to work. So, they may try to argue they could work and do a bit of cheese and wine, and maybe some cocaine, and not break the rules.


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