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-   -   General UK politics (https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346868)

Andy_Ross 23rd January 2022 02:51 PM

Rishi Sunak has tried to distance himself from the looming National Insurance tax hike after calling it the "the Prime Minister's tax".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...calling-prime/

The Don 24th January 2022 03:07 AM

Boris Johnson has now called for an internal investigation into Nusrat Ghani's claims that she was dismissed as a minister because of Muslimness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60108377

Well that's a sure-fire way to make sure that the grisly details are never made public and a proper whitewash can be executed. :rolleyes:

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 03:34 AM

The police refused to investigate the parties but the investigation is interviewing the police.

Bizarre.

catsmate 24th January 2022 08:26 AM

Paul Keating (former Australian Prime Minister) described Liz Truss being "demented" wrt her comments on China; suggest she return to her "collapsing, disreputable government".
Also stated Britain "suffers delusions of grandeur and relevance deprivation"
Link.

ponderingturtle 24th January 2022 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13709663)
Here is a link to the most thorough treatment of Stalingrad I have seen.

It starts from 21st of July 1942 to the 2nd of February 1943 and covers the fighting on the Don leading up to the actual seige of the city.

31 videos so far taking it up to the 23rd of October 1942. They are all around 40 to 50 minutes long so around 22 hours so far.
Lots more to come

they are very good, his straight history vids are all good, his economics videos not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...UtBP2pxYdCYiXX

I have been watching the world war two in real time weekly updates and it is just about the end for the germans in stalingrad right now.

The Don 24th January 2022 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catsmate (Post 13711826)
Paul Keating (former Australian Prime Minister) described Liz Truss being "demented" wrt her comments on China; suggest she return to her "collapsing, disreputable government".
Also stated Britain "suffers delusions of grandeur and relevance deprivation"
Link.

Hard to argue with his analysis of both Liz Truss and Britain's assessment of its own global relevance. :o

jimbob 24th January 2022 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle (Post 13711876)
I have been watching the world war two in real time weekly updates and it is just about the end for the germans in stalingrad right now.

I think someone linked to those from here. They are very good.

I liked this channel on the New Guinea campaign and especially Australian contributions.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Strange to compare the numbers in this campaign and Stalingrad.

jimbob 24th January 2022 10:03 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...08e28a5d6940b7

Quote:

Treasury minister announces shock resignation in Lords in protest at government handling of fraudulent Covid business payments
Lord Agnew of Oulton has resigned his post as a minister based jointly in the Treasury and in the Cabinet Office in a surprise statement from the dispatch box in the House or Lords. He said he was quitting because of his disapproval of the government’s response to the problem of fraudulent Covid business payments. He told peers:

Given that I am the minister for counter fraud, it would be somewhat dishonest to stay on in that role if I am incapable of doing it properly.

It is for this reason that I have sadly decided to tender my resignation as a minister across the Treasury and Cabinet Office with immediate affect.

Last week the government admitted that it expected to write off more than £4bn in Covid payments that were claimed fraudulently.

Agnew received a rare round of applause in the Lords after he ended his statement.

Angela Smith, the Labour leader in the Lords, said:

I think we have just witnessed one of the most dramatic moments we have ever seen in the house from a minister who felt his integrity could no longer ensure he remained a member of the government.

Darat 24th January 2022 10:51 AM

Problem for the government is of course that they might end up convicting their mates if they decided to pursue these fraud cases.

I'd be happy to take the debt off the government's hands for £1 and take on the chasing up of the fraudulent claims myself.

Mr Fied 24th January 2022 11:33 AM

Oh FFS, Boris had a birthday party that broke the rules too.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-24/...ws-understands

Just go man.

Mojo 24th January 2022 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Fied (Post 13712007)
Oh FFS, Boris had a birthday party that broke the rules too.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-24/...ws-understands

Just go man.


But Boris can’t be expected to have realised that it was a party:
Quote:

At the afternoon event, Carrie Johnson and Lulu Lytle are believed to have presented the prime minister with a cake whilst his wife led staff in a chorus of happy birthday.

That happens at every Cabinet meeting, doesn’t it?

Mr Fied 24th January 2022 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo (Post 13712011)
But Boris can’t be expected to have realised that it was a party:


That happens at every Cabinet meeting, doesn’t it?

Knowing this lot, most probably.

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 11:59 AM

Another one for Sue Gray. At this rate she'll never get round to writing the sodding report.

Maybe that's the plan.

Mojo 24th January 2022 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Fied (Post 13712022)
Knowing this lot, most probably.


I imagine Boris sulking if he doesn’t get a cake.

GlennB 24th January 2022 12:27 PM

It's OK. Nobody had told him it was his birthday.

The Don 24th January 2022 01:11 PM

There was also an evening do but according to Number 10, only close family was there.

The allegations are that it included friends.

I suspect Number 10 are lying.

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 01:16 PM

The only reason Boris would have only stayed 10 minutes at the party would have been if he’d had another party to go to.

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 01:16 PM

Nadine Dorries tweets
@NadineDorries
· 1h
So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party?

KDLarsen 24th January 2022 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13712150)
Nadine Dorries tweets
@NadineDorries
· 1h
So, when people in an office buy a cake in the middle of the afternoon for someone else they are working in the office with and stop for ten minutes to sing happy birthday and then go back to their desks, this is now called a party?

A pity the government's own twitter account was advising others, that this still wouldn't be permitted...

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 01:46 PM

You could celebrate your birthday with friends with cake if you’re at work in Downing St. But not at home, not if your business was closed, not if you’re The Queen and not of course, if you were dying alone in hospital.

KDLarsen 24th January 2022 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13712167)
You could celebrate your birthday with friends with cake if you’re at work in Downing St. But not at home, not if your business was closed, not if you’re The Queen and not of course, if you were dying alone in hospital.

Lest we forget that CCHQ was also on the list of locales permitted to host parties, vis a vis the December 14th, 2020 Christmas Party hosted by the Shaun Bailey mayoral campaign.

jimbob 24th January 2022 03:08 PM

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/sta...48429546217475

Quote:

See new Tweets
Conversation
Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson
Normal
0%

United Kingdom government official
Josephine sets a great example to us all by postponing her birthday party until we have sent coronavirus packing.

Together we can beat this. In the meantime let's all wish her happy birthday (twice) whilst washing our hands. #BeLikeJosephine #StayHomeSaveLives
Quote:

Quote Tweet
Locks Heath C.C.
@LocksHeathCC
Unknown
· Mar 20, 2020
@10DowningStreet @BorisJohnson @piersmorgan #belikejosephine
Show this thread
12:58 PM · Mar 21, 2020·Twitter Web App

dudalb 24th January 2022 03:30 PM

Question, of course is how long until the Tory Party leadership decides that Boris has become deadwright and decides to dump him.

jimbob 24th January 2022 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudalb (Post 13712253)
Question, of course is how long until the Tory Party leadership decides that Boris has become deadwright and decides to dump him.

They have decided.

I guess the question is whether they think he can soak up any more blame or whether he will contaminate the rest.

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 04:49 PM

The only people defending Boris Johnson tonight are George Eustace, Peter Bone and Nadine ******* Dorries.
Imagine how low you would have sunk if that was your line of defence?

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 04:58 PM

Mitch Benn tweeted
@MitchBenn
·
4h
Can’t help but feel a bit irked at all the people who voted for Boris Johnson despite having been warned that he was Boris Johnson suddenly reacting with outrage and indignation upon belatedly discovering that Boris Johnson is in fact Boris Johnson

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 04:58 PM

Jay Rayner tweeted
@jayrayner1
·
4h
As the great Julia Child once said, a party without cake is just a meeting. Johnson’s staffers supplied a cake. Ergo, It was a party.

Andy_Ross 24th January 2022 06:16 PM

They got the interior decorator from the other scandal to attend this scandal.

sphenisc 24th January 2022 06:59 PM

Things are tough when Marie Antoinette shows more social solidarity than the PM.

The Don 25th January 2022 03:08 AM

The UK government is facing an internal rebellion over plans to increase National Insurance payments. These payments are supposed to fund the NHS (though at first they will just pay down some of the Covid debt) - indeed Jacob Rees Mogg has already crowed about the NHS receiving the £350m a week promised six years ago on the side of a bus despite neither the tax nor the funding being in place.

Now the government is facing another squeeze on funding. Inflation has increased the cost of servicing the government's enormous debt. A "fiscally responsible" party would raise taxes - ideally on those most able to pay, the rich - but of course the Conservatives are entirely wedded to the voodoo economic view that the path to national prosperity lies in making sure that wealth and income inequality is as high as possible. :mad:

Quote:

Interest payments on government borrowing last month hit a record high for December as surging inflation increased the cost of debt.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said interest on government debt hit £8.1bn last month - up from £2.7bn a year earlier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60117150

The Don 25th January 2022 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13712300)
The only people defending Boris Johnson tonight are George Eustace, Peter Bone and Nadine ******* Dorries.
Imagine how low you would have sunk if that was your line of defence?

Give it 24 hours before calling it. IMO other cabinet members are just waiting to be presented with the right form of wording before stepping in front of the cameras.

I note from Grant Shapps' performance this morning that they seem to be going with the "It was a nice, but misjudged move from his staff but Boris Johnson knew nothing about it" defence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-6...ost_type=share

Whether they'll make the same defence when it turns out that the evening event wasn't just six close family members adhering to social distancing and instead it was, say, a dozen friends and family meeting indoors/outdoors.

P.J. Denyer 25th January 2022 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stee (Post 13710983)
We didn’t burn him! (Bonus points for knowing where that’s from…)

That he’s felt the need to weigh in seems to suggest he may have said something he now regrets.

That was what came to my mind too! Appropriate for the Tories. "This is a local country for local people. There's nothing for you here"

The Don 25th January 2022 03:16 AM

It's got so bad that even the Met have decided that they have to be seen to be doing something:

Quote:

The Metropolitan Police will investigate a number of events at Downing Street and Whitehall in relation to potential breaches of Covid regulations, Dame Cressida Dick announces.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-6...ost_type=share

I'm sure that they'll look in a way that they're guaranteed not to find anything "inconvenient" to either the government or senior police officers. Imagine the furore if it turns out that plod were at one or more of the gatherings. ;)

P.J. Denyer 25th January 2022 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13712566)
It's got so bad that even the Met have decided that they have to be seen to be doing something:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-6...ost_type=share

I'm sure that they'll look in a way that they're guaranteed not to find anything "inconvenient" to either the government or senior police officers. Imagine the furore if it turns out that plod were at one or more of the gatherings. ;)


"We asked the officers concerned for their notebooks covering the period but unfortunately they were all destroyed in mystery fire started by a stray birthday cake candle"

Worm 25th January 2022 04:19 AM

Quote:

"Commissioner Cressida Dick said ... the investigation was launched as a "result of the information provided by the Cabinet Office inquiry team", led by civil servant Sue Gray."

But the BBC understands the report will not be published while the Met are investigating, and it is not clear how long the force will take.
Would it be cynical of me to think it very convenient that Sue Gray's report will be delayed while the Met investigation is ongoing?

Carrot Flower King 25th January 2022 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13712593)
Would it be cynical of me to think it very convenient that Sue Gray's report will be delayed while the Met investigation is ongoing?

I already thought just that.

But I have a long-standing reputation for cynicism (ask a couple of botany lecturers at Sheffield in 1977...).

And another thing: WTAF is Carrie doing at all those "work events"? Carrot Flower Queen and I were never at each other's work things, even though it might have been helpful at times, what with both working in different bits of the NHS. And if your robbing git interior designer is there it definitely isn't work...

The Don 25th January 2022 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13712593)
Would it be cynical of me to think it very convenient that Sue Gray's report will be delayed while the Met investigation is ongoing?

And the Met investigation delayed while the Sue Gray report is pending - because Sue Gray will provide the evidence which will form the basis for the Met investigation - and vice versa ;)

Lothian 25th January 2022 04:49 AM

Announcement
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tory Party strategy team
The report into the birthday/ work/ funeral/ garden parties will be delayed until we can get rid of Boris so that the new leader can point to the culprits being out of power, old news and nothing to do with the current administration


Carrot Flower King 25th January 2022 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13712605)
And the Met investigation delayed while the Sue Gray report is pending - because Sue Gray will provide the evidence which will form the basis for the Met investigation - and vice versa ;)

They've got some combination of Kafka and Joseph Heller in to write the script, haven't they? With Flann O'Brien/Brian O'Nolan/Myles Na gCopaleen in as script consultant.

Andy_Ross 25th January 2022 05:54 AM

Tory head saying the Grey report must wait until the police investigation is complete.

So that's it in the 'long grass' until after the council elections then?

Worm 25th January 2022 05:57 AM

I've always been slightly puzzled by this. I understand there can be certain issues with 'interfering' with police investigations, but is there a specific legal issue with Sue Gray's report being published, albeit with some caveats about matters that have been referred to the police. ?

I can understand them not commenting on the actual police investigation, but the issue about not commenting AT ALL on any matter which is being investigated by the police always feels very convenient.

Andy_Ross 25th January 2022 06:00 AM

Police investigation could take "up to a year" to complete.

Andy_Ross 25th January 2022 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worm (Post 13712646)
I've always been slightly puzzled by this. I understand there can be certain issues with 'interfering' with police investigations, but is there a specific legal issue with Sue Gray's report being published, albeit with some caveats about matters that have been referred to the police. ?

I can understand them not commenting on the actual police investigation, but the issue about not commenting AT ALL on any matter which is being investigated by the police always feels very convenient.

Of course it is. After the police investigation is complete the Grey investigation will have to take it in to account, that will add another few months on to the process.

Wudang 25th January 2022 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King (Post 13712597)
I already thought just that.

But I have a long-standing reputation for cynicism

It's not cynicism in this case. It's more like getting disgusted early to avoid the rush.

The Don 25th January 2022 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13712641)
Tory head saying the Grey report must wait until the police investigation is complete.

So that's it in the 'long grass' until after the council elections then?

Mission Accomplished then. :rolleyes:

As far as people in Westminster care, local elections are neither here nor there. If the Conservatives do okay in the local elections then they'll keep Boris Johnson in post.

If they go badly then they'll ditch him and rebrand.

Andy_Ross 25th January 2022 06:22 AM

Sam Coates Sky
@SamCoatesSky
·
18m
Multiple sources confirm Boris Johnson didn’t tell his cabinet of the police investigation *despite knowing before cabinet started the announcement was imminent*
This has caused Cabinet incredulity, I understand.
No10 says it was too “sensitive” to share with cabinet

Boris Johnson has NOT seen what Sue Gray has passed to the Met Police, No10 spokesman said
Asked if Boris Johnson would resign if he’s interviewed under caution, the spokesman said this was a hypothetical
Boris Johnson does not believe he broke the law, his spokesman said
The spokesman wouldn’t repeat that all coronavirus rules were followed at all times

Andy_Ross 25th January 2022 06:22 AM

PM willing to speak to police he says. How very gracious of him

The Don 25th January 2022 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop (Post 13712672)
Sam Coates Sky
@SamCoatesSky
·
18m
Multiple sources confirm Boris Johnson didn’t tell his cabinet of the police investigation *despite knowing before cabinet started the announcement was imminent*
This has caused Cabinet incredulity, I understand.
No10 says it was too “sensitive” to share with cabinet

Boris Johnson has NOT seen what Sue Gray has passed to the Met Police, No10 spokesman said
Asked if Boris Johnson would resign if he’s interviewed under caution, the spokesman said this was a hypothetical
Boris Johnson does not believe he broke the law, his spokesman said
The spokesman wouldn’t repeat that all coronavirus rules were followed at all times

That's setting the bar pretty low given that he appears not to have understood what the law was and that he believes that the law doesn't apply to him.

Lothian 25th January 2022 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don (Post 13712692)
That's setting the bar pretty low given that he appears not to have understood what the law was and that he believes that the law doesn't apply to him.

No one told him and he was unable to tune into the No 10 broadcasts detailing the changes to the law as he was working* when they were on.


*'Real work' as opposed to 'cake, cheese and suitcases of wine work'.

The Don 25th January 2022 09:43 AM

Looks like Boris Johnson is relying on a supply of dead cats:

Quote:

I have spoken to a few MPs who were poised to send their letters and emails when the Sue Gray inquiry reported. And they are now willing to wait for the Met.

That buys time for the PM. One of his colleagues said Johnson would be hoping people would get bored of the issue - especially in the face of potential conflict in Eastern Europe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-6...ost_type=share

Sadly, I think that he's right. Another week or so and we'll all be bored of it. Another month or so and we'll have forgotten all about "Partygate" :mad:

This is how they get away with everything wait until the public are distracted by something shiny.


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