• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Ziggurat said:
You are correct, it's not. But your claim itself was a stretch, and you haven't put forward a serious argument in favor of that claim. Essentially you said A is a form of B, so B is a form of A. But that's a logical error. Squares are rectangles, but rectangles aren't squares.

No, that's not a formal definition. It's a description of what rape culture does. But unless you want to so stretch the term as to be meaningless, it quite obviously cannot be a formal definition.

Consider the following hypothetical. Yes, I know it's not going to be realistic, but that's beside the point, because we're talking formal definitions (your choice, not mine), which must make sense even under unrealistic conditions. Imagine a culture where rape never happens, but men frequently smack unwilling women on the ass in public without repercussions. This isn't rape culture, because rape never happens. Sexual assault is both normalized and trivialized, as you stated, but it's still not rape culture. Rape culture has to somehow actually involve rape at some stage, or it's not rape culture.
Click to expand...

Google 'rape culture definition'.

So, is children having unfettered access to pornography a problem? Sure, I'll agree to that. Will it lead to more rape? Possibly, but that's a connection that needs to be demonstrated, we cannot take it as axiomatically true. Is it part of rape culture? You need more than what you've offered so far to make that connection.
Click to expand...

It seems your argument depends on the definition you have chosen.

Please read the Barnardo's statement; it deals with more than children accessing porn.
 
Oh did we reset again? In that case, my ego demands that I re-add my two cents.

No, porn is not inherently bad. Yes, the content of porn absolutely can and does influence behavior and attitudes because all consumable media can and does. To that end, recent popular trends in porn content are concerning IMO, based on anecdotes I've seen from women who became distressed after their partners started mimicking some behaviors popularized in mainstream porn, like choking.
 
Checkmite said:
Oh did we reset again? In that case, my ego demands that I re-add my two cents.

No, porn is not inherently bad. Yes, the content of porn absolutely can and does influence behavior and attitudes because all consumable media can and does. To that end, recent popular trends in porn content are concerning IMO, based on anecdotes I've seen from women who became distressed after their partners started mimicking some behaviors popularized in mainstream porn, like choking.
Click to expand...

#540 says otherwise.

Are you okay with the fact that content suggesting sexual activity with children is rife on mainstream pornography sites? Not just showing up in dark corners - but 'rife'.

That's more than 'bad'; it's illegal and proof of 'rape culture'.
 
Poem said:
I asked:



Do you think we should immediately shut down material that Bernardo's says is 'rife on mainstream porn sites'?
Click to expand...
I'm confused how you think I haven't answered that. The pornography that is mentioned is already illegal in the UK, and is subject to being "shut down" right now, and the people involved in any part of making or distributing it are in line to be prosecuted and if found guilty be jailed for many years and any profits made will be seized. Is that clear enough?
 
Poem said:
Google 'rape culture definition'.
Click to expand...

If you can't think beyond regurgitating Google search results, this isn't going to be a productive exchange. That's a bad definition (especially as a formal definition), and I don't accept it for the reasons I gave. You have offered no reason for why anyone should.

It seems your argument depends on the definition you have chosen.
Click to expand...

Arguments about terms always depend on the definition of those terms. Are you new to this?

Please read the Barnardo's statement; it deals with more than children accessing porn.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but you didn't really talk about more than that in the post thepresitige responded to.
 
Darat said:
I'm confused how you think I haven't answered that. The pornography that is mentioned is already illegal in the UK, and is subject to being "shut down" right now, and the people involved in any part of making or distributing it are in line to be prosecuted and if found guilty be jailed for many years and any profits made will be seized. Is that clear enough?
Click to expand...

Statements about the efficacy or otherwise of the OSB are pretty much just speculation.

I posted:
Society: I don't care about the effects...on young men who are acting out what they see (and on the girls they harass and abuse)...about the rape culture that comes with it....

....just let me at the porn.....

Too harsh?
Click to expand...

You replied:
Yep.

Society - adults should be allowed whatever entertainment they like as long as it doesn't harm anyone without their consent.

Society - up to parents to control what their kids have access to

Problem: Most parents are crap at controlling what their kids have access to.
Click to expand...

Which of the two posts, taking into account the Barnardo's statement, is the current reality?

Your first statement needs some amending does it not? A society of that mindset would not put up with the status quo.
 
3point14 said:
Why do you take his claims at face value? Just because it's in the press, it doesn't mean it's true. The man is expressing an opinion. I'm not prepared to take that on faith as you seem to be. I accept what he's said, I just think he might be wrong.
Click to expand...

Unless you are an expert or actually cite someone who is then it's not a stretch to say Kebede's view and the fact that The Guardian didn't pooh-pooh his assertion carries more weight.

Then that's a different issue.
Click to expand...

But nonetheless relevant to the thread.
 
Ziggurat said:
If you can't think beyond regurgitating Google search results, this isn't going to be a productive exchange. That's a bad definition (especially as a formal definition), and I don't accept it for the reasons I gave. You have offered no reason for why anyone should.

Arguments about terms always depend on the definition of those terms. Are you new to this?

Perhaps, but you didn't really talk about more than that in the post thepresitige responded to.
Click to expand...

Quibbling about semantics whilst the porn scandal continues unabated...

The definition of 'rape culture' hasn't stood still since the second wave feminist movement, right?
 
Poem said:
Quibbling about semantics
Click to expand...

Dude. You just appealed to a definition as authoritative. YOU were quibbling about semantics.

whilst the porn scandal continues unabated...
Click to expand...

If what you are interested in is a “porn scandal”, perhaps you should start a thread about it. This thread is about rape culture.

The definition of 'rape culture' hasn't stood still since the second wave feminist movement, right?
Click to expand...

Academic feminists aren’t the smartest bunch, I don’t take their definitions of words or phrases as gospel. If a term uses the word “rape”, I expect it to actually involve rape. If it doesn’t, that’s a bad definition, and the only reason to use it is to deceive.
 
ThatGuy11200 said:
Even self-produced?
Click to expand...

I will concede that cleaning up the situation we are in won't be easy; it's pretty obvious that porn isn't going away - but I would join with those wanting to push back.
 
Ziggurat said:
Dude. You just appealed to a definition as authoritative. YOU were quibbling about semantics.



If what you are interested in is a “porn scandal”, perhaps you should start a thread about it. This thread is about rape culture.



Academic feminists aren’t the smartest bunch, I don’t take their definitions of words or phrases as gospel. If a term uses the word “rape”, I expect it to actually involve rape. If it doesn’t, that’s a bad definition, and the only reason to use it is to deceive.
Click to expand...

And you are the one insisting on limiting the meaning of 'rape culture'. The Barnardo's statement affirms that mainstream sites are rife with material that 'suggests sexual activity with children'. That is a normalization of the illegal - children can't consent to sex.

Are you going to stop quibbling now?
 
3point14 said:
Why do you take his claims at face value? Just because it's in the press, it doesn't mean it's true. The man is expressing an opinion. I'm not prepared to take that on faith as you seem to be. I accept what he's said, I just think he might be wrong.
Click to expand...

That Kebede article was about Andrew Tate so we're getting into way more than banning porn here. This is about completely sanitizing the Internet whish appears to work well for countries like Russia and China. Interesting idea in there about an age limit for smartphones. That could work those parents that are so freaked out about keeping in constant contact with their children could just go old school. Hand them a flip phone and call them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom