Dover Penn ID trial - Page 2

Mojo · 18th October 2005, 09:09 AM

There's an amusing column about Behe's testimony by Mike Argento.

Some more of Argento's columns are linked from the ACLUPA blog.

Mercutio · 18th October 2005, 05:47 PM

Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix!

Ed · 18th October 2005, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix!

Wait for the cross, wait for the cross

Mojo · 19th October 2005, 06:30 AM

Another Mike Argento column about Behe.

ETA: And one from New Scientist.

Mercutio · 19th October 2005, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Another Mike Argento column about Behe.

Nice.

Mercutio · 19th October 2005, 06:38 AM

...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts...

Pastor Bentonit · 19th October 2005, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Another Mike Argento column about Behe.

For deeper scientific insights into ID Creationism and the Dover case, try The Panda´s Thumb. Granted, the above column is fun to read, and these IDC clowns get all the ridicule they deserve.

Darat · 19th October 2005, 06:50 AM

Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA

Upchurch · 19th October 2005, 08:13 AM

Witness says God isn't only possible designer

Quote:

Behe testified Tuesday that intelligent design, unlike creationism, does not make references to religion or religious text. Although he said he believes that the intelligent designer is God, he said the intelligent design movement does not identify the designer and that there could be other causes.

Because any other, non-supernatural, designer then has the sticky question of the origins of the designer, doesn't it?

Anyway, this is really why I linked the article:

Quote:

But during the cross-examination of Behe, ACLU attorney Eric Rothschild reminded the court that the National Academy of Scientists, the American Association for the Advancement of Science and even the biology department at Lehigh University, have denounced the idea of intelligent design.

''So you have not been able to convince your colleagues,'' Rothschild said to Behe after reading a statement from Behe's peers.

The statement, posted on Lehigh's Web site, reads in part:

''While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.''

Behe said the department's statement has no scientific importance. ''Intelligent design is certainly not the dominant view of the scientific community,'' he said, ''but I'm very pleased with the progress we're making.''

richardm · 19th October 2005, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Perhaps the problem is that the Church of England has lacked extremist, fundamentalist, waggly beard bigots for so long that the folk down south have forgotten what religious bigotry is like.

I hate religious bigotry. In fact, I despise all forms of inlaid decoration.

tsg · 19th October 2005, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Mercutio

...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts...

I feel your pain. I've still got a hole in my soul from the missing transcripts of Days 2(am), 3(am) and 4...

KingMerv00 · 19th October 2005, 01:04 PM

I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand.

Ed · 19th October 2005, 01:39 PM

or Jack Chick

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp

Mojo · 19th October 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand.

Thank you for editing out the apostrophe!

c4ts · 19th October 2005, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ed

or Jack Chick

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp

Classic Chick! It has freaky looking kids, evil Semetic teachers, unsupported nonsense which is basically hate speech... But I liked it better when it was called Big Daddy. I miss the part about atoms being held together by Jesus!

Odin · 20th October 2005, 01:03 AM

I want to known on which day did God created Suzy, since she appears to be becoming intelligently designed into a hamster.

And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell. So thats almost everyone I've ever known, most of whom are Christians, in Hell. What a nice loving religion Chick has, the worship of the appeal to fear.

chran · 20th October 2005, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Odin

And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell.

I love all the references to precious blood. That's surely something that all the kids will like!

Yahweh · 20th October 2005, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Witness says God isn't only possible designer
Because any other, non-supernatural, designer then has the sticky question of the origins of the designer, doesn't it?

Of course the intelligent designer doesnt have to be God, only someone with the basic skillset and powers to create an entire functioning universe and humans in his image from the ground up.

Darat · 20th October 2005, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Yahweh

Of course the intelligent designer doesnt have to be God, only someone with the basic skillset and powers to create an entire functioning universe and humans in his image from the ground up.

And is so simple that it didn't need to be designed.

Darat · 20th October 2005, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

And is so simple that it didn't need to be designed.

Hold on if it was so simple it didn't need a designer to design it that means that complexity can arise from simplicity.. oops...

catbasket · 20th October 2005, 02:52 AM

From the New Scientist article (Mojo's link above) -

Talking about Behe's cross examination - "“You've got to admire the guy. It’s Daniel in the lion’s den,” says Robert Slade, a local retiree who has been attending the trial because he is interested in science. "But I can’t believe he teaches a college biology class.""

Sorry, Mr. Slade, I just cannot admire Behe.

Euromutt · 20th October 2005, 04:04 AM

Well, it's a fine line between courage and stupidity, and I think I know which side Behe's on. Still, I think Mr. Slade's incredulity concerning Behe's academic chops is of more import to this case than his admiration of Behe's guts.

catbasket · 20th October 2005, 04:52 AM

Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts.

Melendwyr · 20th October 2005, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by bighairygoat

Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts.

He certainly couldn't admire his brains, that's for sure.

Moose · 20th October 2005, 06:07 AM

Okay, I think I'm officially in "transcript withdrawl". These short articles aren't doing it for me anymore.

Bronze Dog · 20th October 2005, 06:23 AM

I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it.

CFLarsen · 20th October 2005, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by BronzeDog

I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it.

If he had guts, he would state clearly what he wants: A religious tyranny.

catbasket · 20th October 2005, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by BronzeDog

I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts.

On display in a natural history museum as an example of some of the wonderful things evolution has produced? "This, children, is the alimentary canal."

Dr Adequate · 20th October 2005, 06:57 AM

"And this is the theory of intelligent design, which emerges from this end."

catbasket · 20th October 2005, 07:58 AM

Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.

catbasket · 20th October 2005, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA

ACLUPA blog
A "creationist science" text book becomes an "intelligent design" textbook
Dover trial transcripts (Not yet updated with days 7, 8 and 9)
Audio analysis
Mike Argento column
Mike Argento column 2
New Scientist column
Witness says God isn't only possible designer

How's that?

Darat · 20th October 2005, 08:57 AM

Great thanks

Mojo · 20th October 2005, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by bighairygoat

Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.

The first session of Behe is up as well now, but no cross yet.

Moose · 20th October 2005, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by bighairygoat

Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.

W00t! My hero!

[edit:] Wait. Where? All I'm seeing are the two transcripts for day 6 on the ACLU:Pennsylvania site.

[edit again:] Never mind, I found em. They hadn't updated the transcript page yet.

Melendwyr · 20th October 2005, 09:28 AM

Arrgah! I can't stand it when people try claiming that science and religious faith are compatible. They're nothing of the sort, which is precisely why it's inappropriate to teach religious doctrines in a science class.

juryjone · 20th October 2005, 09:55 AM

I'm not a scientist, but I do look like one.

In glancing through Behe's testimony, nuch is made of the fact that biological structures are referred to as machines, and that this is not a metaphor, but a definition of the structure. Behe then says that because it is a machine, that means it's designed.

If I toss a loose deck of cards into a corner, one or more of the cards may be propped against the wall. That propped card is an inclined plane, a simple machine. Would Behe's "inductive reasoning" lead him to believe that it was designed, or would he concede that a machine can be produced through random processes?

The other point I'd like to make is about the "simple test" that neither side will do: take a bacteria with no flagellum and, over the course of a couple of years, apply selective pressures over 10,000 generations. If the bacteria develop flagella, that would, according to the article, "prove" evolution.

To me, this a very poorly designed test that would prove nothing to either side.

Outcome 1: No flagellum.
ID: See? God/Designer did it.
Evolutionist: What made us think we could apply just the right combination of selective pressures to produce the predetermined outcome? This is stupid! It proves nothing.

Outcome 2: Flagellum.
ID: See? God/Designer did it.
Evolutionist: Wow! I did it! Man, I hope someone else is able to read my notes and replicate this sucker!

rwguinn · 20th October 2005, 12:47 PM

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new...10_18_2005.asp

please read the last paragraph carefully...
This is really, really troubling. Frightening, even...
science standing in the way of an education?

Cleon · 20th October 2005, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new...10_18_2005.asp

please read the last paragraph carefully...
This is really, really troubling. Frightening, even...
science standing in the way of an education?

Frightening, yes. But also illustrative of the fact that ID is one big hoax--they know it's not science.

rwguinn · 20th October 2005, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Frightening, yes. But also illustrative of the fact that ID is one big hoax--they know it's not science.

One thing that bothers me about all the legal wrangling is that logic goes out the window.
The "Watchmaker" bit about assuming a designer bothers me. If I see an inanimate mechanism, yes, I assume a designer. A Chevy small block canot reproduce, or we'd all be up to our ears in them.
some things-An arch, for example, I can ascribe to natural processes-the Desert Southwest is full of the bloody things. But the anthropomorphization (Huh?) of watches and such by comparing them to living beings escapes me.
Maybe I'm not logical enough?

chipmunk stew · 21st October 2005, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

One thing that bothers me about all the legal wrangling is that logic goes out the window.
The "Watchmaker" bit about assuming a designer bothers me. If I see an inanimate mechanism, yes, I assume a designer. A Chevy small block canot reproduce, or we'd all be up to our ears in them.
some things-An arch, for example, I can ascribe to natural processes-the Desert Southwest is full of the bloody things. But the anthropomorphization (Huh?) of watches and such by comparing them to living beings escapes me.
Maybe I'm not logical enough?

I feel the same way about mousetraps. The most damning aspect of the mousetrap as a useful analogy is the fact that it requires a human (or a clever orangutan, perhaps) to set it and bait it in order for it to have any capability whatsoever for trapping mice. How can this be compared to a living thing?

18th October 2005, 09:09 AM	#41
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 39,505	There's an amusing column about Behe's testimony by Mike Argento. Some more of Argento's columns are linked from the ACLUPA blog.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

18th October 2005, 07:47 PM	#43
Ed Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,658	Originally Posted by Mercutio Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix! Wait for the cross, wait for the cross
Ed Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,658

19th October 2005, 06:30 AM	#44
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 39,505	Another Mike Argento column about Behe. ETA: And one from New Scientist.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

19th October 2005, 06:43 AM	#47
Pastor Bentonit Thinker Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 130	Originally Posted by Mojo Another Mike Argento column about Behe. For deeper scientific insights into ID Creationism and the Dover case, try The Panda´s Thumb. Granted, the above column is fun to read, and these IDC clowns get all the ridicule they deserve.
Pastor Bentonit Thinker Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 130	__________________ "Where there´s a will, there´s a lawyer" - Kinky Friedman "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture" - Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further” - Richard Dawkins "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes." "Scientist" is a profession. Science is a method. "Scientism" is neither a political ideology, nor a religion.

19th October 2005, 06:50 AM	#48
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 117,767	Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA
	__________________ “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

18th October 2005, 05:47 PM	#42
Mercutio Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 16,279	Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix!

19th October 2005, 06:37 AM	#45
Mercutio Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 16,279	Originally Posted by Mojo Another Mike Argento column about Behe. Nice.

19th October 2005, 06:38 AM	#46
Mercutio Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 16,279	...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts...

19th October 2005, 08:13 AM	#49
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 34,265	Witness says God isn't only possible designer Quote: Behe testified Tuesday that intelligent design, unlike creationism, does not make references to religion or religious text. Although he said he believes that the intelligent designer is God, he said the intelligent design movement does not identify the designer and that there could be other causes. Because any other, non-supernatural, designer then has the sticky question of the origins of the designer, doesn't it? Anyway, this is really why I linked the article: Quote: But during the cross-examination of Behe, ACLU attorney Eric Rothschild reminded the court that the National Academy of Scientists, the American Association for the Advancement of Science and even the biology department at Lehigh University, have denounced the idea of intelligent design. ''So you have not been able to convince your colleagues,'' Rothschild said to Behe after reading a statement from Behe's peers. The statement, posted on Lehigh's Web site, reads in part: ''While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.'' Behe said the department's statement has no scientific importance. ''Intelligent design is certainly not the dominant view of the scientific community,'' he said, ''but I'm very pleased with the progress we're making.''
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

19th October 2005, 09:03 AM	#50
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,248	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Perhaps the problem is that the Church of England has lacked extremist, fundamentalist, waggly beard bigots for so long that the folk down south have forgotten what religious bigotry is like. I hate religious bigotry. In fact, I despise all forms of inlaid decoration.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,248	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

19th October 2005, 09:33 AM	#51
tsg Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,771	Originally Posted by Mercutio ...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts... I feel your pain. I've still got a hole in my soul from the missing transcripts of Days 2(am), 3(am) and 4...
tsg Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,771	__________________ Being offended by someone questioning your beliefs is a sign that you should be questioning them. In the beginning there was nothing. And the Lord said "Let There Be Light!" And still there was nothing, but at least now you could see it.

19th October 2005, 01:04 PM	#52
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 14,462	I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand.

19th October 2005, 01:39 PM	#53
Ed Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,658	or Jack Chick http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp
Ed Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,658

19th October 2005, 03:25 PM	#54
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 39,505	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand. Thank you for editing out the apostrophe!
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

19th October 2005, 11:52 PM	#55
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,420	Originally Posted by Ed or Jack Chick http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp Classic Chick! It has freaky looking kids, evil Semetic teachers, unsupported nonsense which is basically hate speech... But I liked it better when it was called Big Daddy. I miss the part about atoms being held together by Jesus!
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,420

20th October 2005, 01:03 AM	#56
Odin Atheistic Aesir Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 806	I want to known on which day did God created Suzy, since she appears to be becoming intelligently designed into a hamster. And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell. So thats almost everyone I've ever known, most of whom are Christians, in Hell. What a nice loving religion Chick has, the worship of the appeal to fear.
Odin Atheistic Aesir Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 806	__________________ Nothing to see here "Then we didn't evolve! The system has been feeding us THE BIG LIE!" -Jack T Chick "Educators are actually evil for refusing to teach students Nature's 4 World Time Cube." -Gene Ray "Leo Jean has attained the highest spiritual status of any person on Earth. His spirit is one of the oldest and most powerful in the universe, and is the most powerful on Earth." -Leo Jean

20th October 2005, 02:15 AM	#57
chran Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Denmark, yo Posts: 629	Originally Posted by Odin And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell. I love all the references to precious blood. That's surely something that all the kids will like!

20th October 2005, 02:32 AM	#58
Yahweh Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,006	Originally Posted by Upchurch Witness says God isn't only possible designer Because any other, non-supernatural, designer then has the sticky question of the origins of the designer, doesn't it? Of course the intelligent designer doesnt have to be God, only someone with the basic skillset and powers to create an entire functioning universe and humans in his image from the ground up.
Yahweh Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,006

20th October 2005, 02:32 AM	#59
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 117,767	Originally Posted by Yahweh Of course the intelligent designer doesnt have to be God, only someone with the basic skillset and powers to create an entire functioning universe and humans in his image from the ground up. And is so simple that it didn't need to be designed.
	__________________ “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

20th October 2005, 02:34 AM	#60
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 117,767	Originally Posted by Darat And is so simple that it didn't need to be designed. Hold on if it was so simple it didn't need a designer to design it that means that complexity can arise from simplicity.. oops...
	__________________ “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

20th October 2005, 02:52 AM	#61
catbasket Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,478	From the New Scientist article (Mojo's link above) - Talking about Behe's cross examination - "“You've got to admire the guy. It’s Daniel in the lion’s den,” says Robert Slade, a local retiree who has been attending the trial because he is interested in science. "But I can’t believe he teaches a college biology class."" Sorry, Mr. Slade, I just cannot admire Behe.

20th October 2005, 04:04 AM	#62
Euromutt Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,092	Well, it's a fine line between courage and stupidity, and I think I know which side Behe's on. Still, I think Mr. Slade's incredulity concerning Behe's academic chops is of more import to this case than his admiration of Behe's guts.
	__________________ "Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a post-graduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me." - Terry Pratchett, Jingo by birth, by choice

20th October 2005, 04:52 AM	#63
catbasket Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,478	Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts.

20th October 2005, 05:21 AM	#64
Melendwyr Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,064	Originally Posted by bighairygoat Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts. He certainly couldn't admire his brains, that's for sure.
Melendwyr Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,064

20th October 2005, 06:07 AM	#65
Moose Self-Propelled Road Hazard Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 418	Okay, I think I'm officially in "transcript withdrawl". These short articles aren't doing it for me anymore.

20th October 2005, 06:23 AM	#66
Bronze Dog Copper Alloy Canid Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,993	I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it.
	__________________ Stop Sylvia Browne Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel

20th October 2005, 06:32 AM	#67
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,371	Originally Posted by BronzeDog I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it. If he had guts, he would state clearly what he wants: A religious tyranny.

20th October 2005, 06:52 AM	#68
catbasket Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,478	Originally Posted by BronzeDog I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. On display in a natural history museum as an example of some of the wonderful things evolution has produced? "This, children, is the alimentary canal."

20th October 2005, 06:57 AM	#69
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766	"And this is the theory of intelligent design, which emerges from this end."
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 17,766

20th October 2005, 07:58 AM	#70
catbasket Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,478	Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.

20th October 2005, 08:17 AM	#71
catbasket Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,478	Originally Posted by Darat Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA ACLUPA blog A "creationist science" text book becomes an "intelligent design" textbook Dover trial transcripts (Not yet updated with days 7, 8 and 9) Audio analysis Mike Argento column Mike Argento column 2 New Scientist column Witness says God isn't only possible designer How's that?

20th October 2005, 08:57 AM	#72
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 117,767	Great thanks
	__________________ “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

20th October 2005, 09:07 AM	#73
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 39,505	Originally Posted by bighairygoat Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here. The first session of Behe is up as well now, but no cross yet.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

20th October 2005, 09:16 AM	#74
Moose Self-Propelled Road Hazard Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 418	Originally Posted by bighairygoat Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here. W00t! My hero! [edit:] Wait. Where? All I'm seeing are the two transcripts for day 6 on the ACLU:Pennsylvania site. [edit again:] Never mind, I found em. They hadn't updated the transcript page yet.

20th October 2005, 09:28 AM	#75
Melendwyr Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,064	Arrgah! I can't stand it when people try claiming that science and religious faith are compatible. They're nothing of the sort, which is precisely why it's inappropriate to teach religious doctrines in a science class.
Melendwyr Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,064