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Tags agw , climate change , global warming , global warming denial

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Old 25th February 2024, 01:46 AM   #1321
The Great Zaganza
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There is an almost unending amount of innovation coming out of cheap ways to bind carbon, collect and store solar power, climate control buildings cheaply and efficiently, transport goods across the ocean at zero emissions etc..etc. etc.

We might be able to cope with Climate Change purely technologically, which would be a tremendous waste of an opportunity to truly reform the world into something better.
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Old 25th February 2024, 03:28 PM   #1322
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is an almost unending amount of innovation coming out of cheap ways to bind carbon, collect and store solar power, climate control buildings cheaply and efficiently, transport goods across the ocean at zero emissions etc..etc. etc.

We might be able to cope with Climate Change purely technologically, which would be a tremendous waste of an opportunity to truly reform the world into something better.
I agree. Unfortunately it's not happening fast enough.
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Old 26th February 2024, 04:13 AM   #1323
Ivor the Engineer
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I've been involved in a couple of threads about vegetarianism in the past. I was met with a barrage of scorn and insults, and a great deal of lies about me, too. My attempts to rebut these lies were shut down by the mods.
Since then, I have learned not to mention my dietary preferences unless I really need to, and to be prepared for the incoming storm if I do so.
I don't know what your own stance is on this issue, but I know there are many here who have a total and aggressive intolerance of vegetarianism. If that isn't you, I'm happy.
One myth that was recently busted for me was that a plant based diet needs to be varied to get all the essential amino acids the human body needs compared to a meat based diet. It turns out that this is a misunderstanding or misrepresentation.

https://youtu.be/DMwf_9wqWY0?si=nHVawusQjsZD_0Qr

Consuming pretty much any food that can meet your daily energy requirements will provide enough of each of the essential amino acids in your diet, it's just that ratio of amino acids in meat is closer to what the human body needs than, say, rice. But if you eat enough rice to meet your daily energy requirements then you will still get all the essential amino acids the human body needs in sufficient quantity.

Not that I'm suggesting that just eating rice (or any other single food) is a good idea or healthy, but rather that you don't have to carefully plan a diet without meat in it to get what your body needs.

So there's one less excuse to not reduce meat consumption for the benefit of the environment (and personal health and medical expenses).
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Old 26th February 2024, 06:55 AM   #1324
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A huge percentage of the world, where meat is a luxury food, lives off of beans and rice, there's all your essential amino acids right there. I haven't seen much weirdness around vegetarians. Vegans, OTOH, they can be insufferable.
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Old 26th February 2024, 07:29 AM   #1325
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Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer View Post
One myth that was recently busted for me was that a plant based diet needs to be varied to get all the essential amino acids the human body needs compared to a meat based diet. It turns

So there's one less excuse to not reduce meat consumption for the benefit of the environment (and personal health and medical expenses).
Most Humans are not looking for an excuse to not eat meat.
Just another distraction from the real problem..
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Old 26th February 2024, 06:50 PM   #1326
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Most Humans are not looking for an excuse to not eat meat.
Just another distraction from the real problem..
Most humans are looking for an excuse to not act against Global Warming. That is the real problem.
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Old 26th February 2024, 06:56 PM   #1327
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Most humans are looking for an excuse to not act against Global Warming. That is the real problem.
Most humans don't see global warming as an existential threat.

Most people do see curtailment of industrial and economic activity as an existential threat. Your job is to convince them to end their existence on unfavorable terms, in order to assure the existence of future generations on unfavorable terms.

So go ahead. Make your case.
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Old 27th February 2024, 02:13 AM   #1328
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Most humans are looking for an excuse to not act against Global Warming. That is the real problem.
Humankind's greatest problem is apathy.

But nobody cares.
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Old 27th February 2024, 04:34 AM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Most humans are looking for an excuse to not act against Global Warming. That is the real problem.

That implies they are acting but looking for a way not to.

Really?
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Old 27th February 2024, 04:35 AM   #1330
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Most humans don't see global warming as an existential threat.

Most people do see curtailment of industrial and economic activity as an existential threat. Your job is to convince them to end their existence on unfavorable terms, in order to assure the existence of future generations on unfavorable terms.

So go ahead. Make your case.
The insane thing is our current approach makes people unhappy and sick now.

Trickle-up profits and trickle-down misery.

Perhaps if the wealthy and powerful were made to have some skin in the game rather than finding ever more ways to extricate themselves from the consequences things would be very different.
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Old 27th February 2024, 05:27 AM   #1331
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If things were different, things would be different.
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Old 28th February 2024, 02:43 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
That implies they are acting but looking for a way not to.

Really?
Nope. They aren't acting. What they are looking for are excuses to justify their inaction. And no excuse is too outrageous for them. Everything from 'global warming isn't happening' to 'it's too late we're all screwed might as well party on'.

This isn't an anomaly - it's just how humans behave. Many won't act unless it's in their face (sometimes not even then).
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Old 28th February 2024, 03:03 PM   #1333
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Nope. They aren't acting. What they are looking for are excuses to justify their inaction. And no excuse is too outrageous for them. Everything from 'global warming isn't happening' to 'it's too late we're all screwed might as well party on'.

This isn't an anomaly - it's just how humans behave. Many won't act unless it's in their face (sometimes not even then).
Nope. People who don't care are not looking for excuses.
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Old 29th February 2024, 07:15 AM   #1334
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Sabine Hossenfelder has released a new video in reply to the dismissal of the points she raised in her previous one on the estimated climate sensitivity.

My understanding is that the newer climate models which more accurately predict future weather tend to estimate the climate sensitivity to be much higher than those that have been tuned to match historical climate data.

If these newer models are right then the date we need to achieve net zero to stay below x.xC warming is a lot sooner than we hoped, in which case some of you boomers will stand a better chance of being around to suffer along with your children and grandchildren.
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Old 29th February 2024, 07:50 AM   #1335
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Boomers grew up without air conditioning.

In what ways do you think they will suffer?
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Old 29th February 2024, 08:13 AM   #1336
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Boomers grew up without air conditioning.

In what ways do you think they will suffer?
Extreme weather events will become more common leading to floods, fires and droughts.

100's of millions of people will head north putting pressure on things such as healthcare.
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Old 29th February 2024, 04:00 PM   #1337
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Boomers grew up without air conditioning.

In what ways do you think they will suffer?
You're kidding, right? People die of extreme heat every summer. When air conditioning fails a lot more die. Some places we live in today would be virtually uninhabitable (for people who haven't adapted their lives to it) without air conditioning. Those that don't die will suffer for sure.

If it wasn't for modern technology (which up until now has been almost exclusively powered by fossil fuels) the Earth would not be able to support anywhere near the current population. We can't give it up without a massive die-off - which BTW is Mother Nature's plan A.

Most people have no idea how badly the planet is infested with humans. We are the dominant mammalian species by far. Total global mammal biomass consists of 90% humans and the 'domesticated' animals we grow for food.



Our species is having way more influence on the environment than any other animal, and unlike the others we are not in equilibrium with it. Every time it looked like we were getting there, new technology was developed to push our population even higher. Fossil fuels are the latest non-renewable resource we have been using to do that. It cannot go on forever, and the crunch time will come much sooner than most people think.

If we don't face the music now it will only be worse. Someone of my age might be able to pretend they don't care because it won't happen in their lifetime, but even that isn't true. My life is already being impacted by Global Warming.

Quote:
People who don't care are not looking for excuses.
But many people are looking for excuses, which proves they do care. They don't want to care though, which is why they are looking for excuses. Humans - so smart and yet so dumb.
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Old 29th February 2024, 04:25 PM   #1338
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Originally Posted by Ivor the Engineer View Post
If these newer models are right then the date we need to achieve net zero to stay below x.xC warming is a lot sooner than we hoped,
But x.xC is just an arbitrary value. When we smash through 2 C they will just set another threshold that 'must not' be exceeded, while the effects become normalized.

At ~5 C panic will set in and finally things will change, because ignoring it is no longer practicable. At this time the Luddites will vacillate between still pretending it's just weather, blaming 'warmers' for not doing enough to convince them, and pretending that they were aware all along but didn't have the power to do anything. IOW, anything but own up to their part in causing the catastrophe.
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Old 29th February 2024, 04:26 PM   #1339
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Most heat related deaths are related to health issues and to the elderly who have less ability to regulate body temperature than younger people. Not to say a warmer climate is not a factor, but it would seem to corelate to not caring about climate change any more than they care about their health. Technology driven by fossil fuel consumption keeps people alive when they would otherwise be dead. Maybe people should sign some kind of waiver regarding the impact on the environment from the lifesaving medical care they or loved one's receive. " Don't resuscitate if it will increase my carbon foot print. "



If it matters, more people die from cold temperatures than heat. Guess what would improve those numbers?
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