IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » Reference » Forum Spotlight
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags trial , evolution , intelligent design , dover id trial

Reply
Old 18th October 2005, 09:09 AM   #41
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,490
There's an amusing column about Behe's testimony by Mike Argento.

Some more of Argento's columns are linked from the ACLUPA blog.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2005, 05:47 PM   #42
Mercutio
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix!
Mercutio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2005, 07:47 PM   #43
Ed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,658
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Argh! I have become a transcript junky! I need my fix!
Wait for the cross, wait for the cross
Ed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 06:30 AM   #44
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,490
Another Mike Argento column about Behe.

ETA: And one from New Scientist.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 06:37 AM   #45
Mercutio
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Another Mike Argento column about Behe.
Nice.
Mercutio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 06:38 AM   #46
Mercutio
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,279
...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts...
Mercutio is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 06:43 AM   #47
Pastor Bentonit
Thinker
 
Pastor Bentonit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Another Mike Argento column about Behe.
For deeper scientific insights into ID Creationism and the Dover case, try The Panda´s Thumb. Granted, the above column is fun to read, and these IDC clowns get all the ridicule they deserve.
__________________
"Where there´s a will, there´s a lawyer" - Kinky Friedman
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture" - Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further” - Richard Dawkins
"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."

"Scientist" is a profession. Science is a method. "Scientism" is neither a political ideology, nor a religion.
Pastor Bentonit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 06:50 AM   #48
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,757
Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 08:13 AM   #49
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 34,265
Witness says God isn't only possible designer
Quote:
Behe testified Tuesday that intelligent design, unlike creationism, does not make references to religion or religious text. Although he said he believes that the intelligent designer is God, he said the intelligent design movement does not identify the designer and that there could be other causes.
Because any other, non-supernatural, designer then has the sticky question of the origins of the designer, doesn't it?

Anyway, this is really why I linked the article:
Quote:
But during the cross-examination of Behe, ACLU attorney Eric Rothschild reminded the court that the National Academy of Scientists, the American Association for the Advancement of Science and even the biology department at Lehigh University, have denounced the idea of intelligent design.

''So you have not been able to convince your colleagues,'' Rothschild said to Behe after reading a statement from Behe's peers.

The statement, posted on Lehigh's Web site, reads in part:

''While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.''

Behe said the department's statement has no scientific importance. ''Intelligent design is certainly not the dominant view of the scientific community,'' he said, ''but I'm very pleased with the progress we're making.''
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 09:03 AM   #50
richardm
Philosopher
 
richardm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,248
Originally Posted by Soapy Sam View Post
Perhaps the problem is that the Church of England has lacked extremist, fundamentalist, waggly beard bigots for so long that the folk down south have forgotten what religious bigotry is like.
I hate religious bigotry. In fact, I despise all forms of inlaid decoration.
__________________
Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.
richardm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 09:33 AM   #51
tsg
Philosopher
 
tsg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,771
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
...but it is mere methadone...I need my transcripts...
I feel your pain. I've still got a hole in my soul from the missing transcripts of Days 2(am), 3(am) and 4...
__________________
Being offended by someone questioning your beliefs is a sign that you should be questioning them.

In the beginning there was nothing. And the Lord said "Let There Be Light!" And still there was nothing, but at least now you could see it.
tsg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 01:04 PM   #52
KingMerv00
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,462
I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand.
KingMerv00 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 01:39 PM   #53
Ed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,658
or Jack Chick

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp
Ed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 03:25 PM   #54
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,490
Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
I think the plaintiffs should call Hovind to the stand.
Thank you for editing out the apostrophe!
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2005, 11:52 PM   #55
c4ts
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,420
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
Classic Chick! It has freaky looking kids, evil Semetic teachers, unsupported nonsense which is basically hate speech... But I liked it better when it was called Big Daddy. I miss the part about atoms being held together by Jesus!
c4ts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 01:03 AM   #56
Odin
Atheistic Aesir
 
Odin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 806

I want to known on which day did God created Suzy, since she appears to be becoming intelligently designed into a hamster.

And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell. So thats almost everyone I've ever known, most of whom are Christians, in Hell. What a nice loving religion Chick has, the worship of the appeal to fear.
__________________
Nothing to see here

"Then we didn't evolve! The system has been feeding us THE BIG LIE!"
-Jack T Chick

"Educators are actually evil
for refusing to teach students
Nature's 4 World Time Cube."
-Gene Ray

"Leo Jean has attained the highest spiritual status of any person on Earth. His spirit is one of the oldest and most powerful in the universe, and is the most powerful on Earth."
-Leo Jean
Odin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 02:15 AM   #57
chran
Muse
 
chran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Denmark, yo
Posts: 629
Originally Posted by Odin View Post

And if YOU believe in Evolution instead of Jesus (and how in Chickworld could you believe in both?) you'll end up in hell.
I love all the references to precious blood. That's surely something that all the kids will like!
chran is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 02:32 AM   #58
Yahweh
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,006
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Witness says God isn't only possible designer
Because any other, non-supernatural, designer then has the sticky question of the origins of the designer, doesn't it?
Of course the intelligent designer doesnt have to be God, only someone with the basic skillset and powers to create an entire functioning universe and humans in his image from the ground up.
Yahweh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 02:32 AM   #59
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,757
Originally Posted by Yahweh View Post
Of course the intelligent designer doesnt have to be God, only someone with the basic skillset and powers to create an entire functioning universe and humans in his image from the ground up.
And is so simple that it didn't need to be designed.
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 02:34 AM   #60
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,757
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And is so simple that it didn't need to be designed.

Hold on if it was so simple it didn't need a designer to design it that means that complexity can arise from simplicity.. oops...
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 02:52 AM   #61
catbasket
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
From the New Scientist article (Mojo's link above) -

Talking about Behe's cross examination - "“You've got to admire the guy. It’s Daniel in the lion’s den,” says Robert Slade, a local retiree who has been attending the trial because he is interested in science. "But I can’t believe he teaches a college biology class.""


Sorry, Mr. Slade, I just cannot admire Behe.
catbasket is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 04:04 AM   #62
Euromutt
Graduate Poster
 
Euromutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,092
Well, it's a fine line between courage and stupidity, and I think I know which side Behe's on. Still, I think Mr. Slade's incredulity concerning Behe's academic chops is of more import to this case than his admiration of Behe's guts.
__________________
"Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason, and was now a post-graduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me." - Terry Pratchett, Jingo

by birth, by choice
Euromutt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 04:52 AM   #63
catbasket
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts.
catbasket is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 05:21 AM   #64
Melendwyr
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,064
Originally Posted by bighairygoat View Post
Agreed. Personally I read into Mr. Slade's comments that possibly the only thing he admired about Behe was his guts.
He certainly couldn't admire his brains, that's for sure.
Melendwyr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 06:07 AM   #65
Moose
Self-Propelled Road Hazard
 
Moose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 418
Okay, I think I'm officially in "transcript withdrawl". These short articles aren't doing it for me anymore.
Moose is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 06:23 AM   #66
Bronze Dog
Copper Alloy Canid
 
Bronze Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,993
I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it.
__________________
Stop Sylvia Browne

Warning: Beware of contaminated water supplies! Suspected source of contamination: Sarah-I

A non-Rockstar Rambler and dissector of Doggerel
Bronze Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 06:32 AM   #67
CFLarsen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 42,371
Originally Posted by BronzeDog View Post
I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts. If he had them, he'd come up with a testable ID hypothesis and test it.
If he had guts, he would state clearly what he wants: A religious tyranny.
CFLarsen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 06:52 AM   #68
catbasket
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
Originally Posted by BronzeDog View Post
I'm not sure if I can admire Behe's guts.
On display in a natural history museum as an example of some of the wonderful things evolution has produced? "This, children, is the alimentary canal."
catbasket is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 06:57 AM   #69
Dr Adequate
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,766
"And this is the theory of intelligent design, which emerges from this end."
Dr Adequate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 07:58 AM   #70
catbasket
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.
catbasket is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 08:17 AM   #71
catbasket
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Could someone get a list of all these good links together so I can add them to the box on the forum homepage? - TIA
ACLUPA blog
A "creationist science" text book becomes an "intelligent design" textbook
Dover trial transcripts (Not yet updated with days 7, 8 and 9)
Audio analysis
Mike Argento column
Mike Argento column 2
New Scientist column
Witness says God isn't only possible designer

How's that?
catbasket is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 08:57 AM   #72
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 117,757
Great thanks
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 09:07 AM   #73
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 39,490
Originally Posted by bighairygoat View Post
Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.
The first session of Behe is up as well now, but no cross yet.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 09:16 AM   #74
Moose
Self-Propelled Road Hazard
 
Moose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by bighairygoat View Post
Transcripts for days 7, 8 and 9 are available here.
W00t! My hero!

[edit:] Wait. Where? All I'm seeing are the two transcripts for day 6 on the ACLU:Pennsylvania site.

[edit again:] Never mind, I found em. They hadn't updated the transcript page yet.
Moose is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 09:28 AM   #75
Melendwyr
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,064
Arrgah! I can't stand it when people try claiming that science and religious faith are compatible. They're nothing of the sort, which is precisely why it's inappropriate to teach religious doctrines in a science class.
Melendwyr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 09:55 AM   #76
juryjone
Refusing to be confused by facts
 
juryjone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 879
I'm not a scientist, but I do look like one.

In glancing through Behe's testimony, nuch is made of the fact that biological structures are referred to as machines, and that this is not a metaphor, but a definition of the structure. Behe then says that because it is a machine, that means it's designed.

If I toss a loose deck of cards into a corner, one or more of the cards may be propped against the wall. That propped card is an inclined plane, a simple machine. Would Behe's "inductive reasoning" lead him to believe that it was designed, or would he concede that a machine can be produced through random processes?

The other point I'd like to make is about the "simple test" that neither side will do: take a bacteria with no flagellum and, over the course of a couple of years, apply selective pressures over 10,000 generations. If the bacteria develop flagella, that would, according to the article, "prove" evolution.

To me, this a very poorly designed test that would prove nothing to either side.

Outcome 1: No flagellum.
ID: See? God/Designer did it.
Evolutionist: What made us think we could apply just the right combination of selective pressures to produce the predetermined outcome? This is stupid! It proves nothing.

Outcome 2: Flagellum.
ID: See? God/Designer did it.
Evolutionist: Wow! I did it! Man, I hope someone else is able to read my notes and replicate this sucker!
__________________
"Humanity is slipping into the void of ignorance while you cheer and wave." - Tirdun, in reference to geggy and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists
juryjone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 12:47 PM   #77
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
 
rwguinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new...10_18_2005.asp

please read the last paragraph carefully...
This is really, really troubling. Frightening, even...
science standing in the way of an education?
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
"
I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
rwguinn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 03:56 PM   #78
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,649
Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new...10_18_2005.asp

please read the last paragraph carefully...
This is really, really troubling. Frightening, even...
science standing in the way of an education?
Frightening, yes. But also illustrative of the fact that ID is one big hoax--they know it's not science.
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th October 2005, 06:56 PM   #79
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
 
rwguinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 11,098
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Frightening, yes. But also illustrative of the fact that ID is one big hoax--they know it's not science.
One thing that bothers me about all the legal wrangling is that logic goes out the window.
The "Watchmaker" bit about assuming a designer bothers me. If I see an inanimate mechanism, yes, I assume a designer. A Chevy small block canot reproduce, or we'd all be up to our ears in them.
some things-An arch, for example, I can ascribe to natural processes-the Desert Southwest is full of the bloody things. But the anthropomorphization (Huh?) of watches and such by comparing them to living beings escapes me.
Maybe I'm not logical enough?
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
"
I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
rwguinn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st October 2005, 03:18 AM   #80
chipmunk stew
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,448
Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
One thing that bothers me about all the legal wrangling is that logic goes out the window.
The "Watchmaker" bit about assuming a designer bothers me. If I see an inanimate mechanism, yes, I assume a designer. A Chevy small block canot reproduce, or we'd all be up to our ears in them.
some things-An arch, for example, I can ascribe to natural processes-the Desert Southwest is full of the bloody things. But the anthropomorphization (Huh?) of watches and such by comparing them to living beings escapes me.
Maybe I'm not logical enough?
I feel the same way about mousetraps. The most damning aspect of the mousetrap as a useful analogy is the fact that it requires a human (or a clever orangutan, perhaps) to set it and bait it in order for it to have any capability whatsoever for trapping mice. How can this be compared to a living thing?
chipmunk stew is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » Reference » Forum Spotlight

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:08 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.