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Old 26th April 2023, 10:06 AM   #361
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I expect not. ...

Trump expects to get more exposure and fundraising from being publicly vilified in Court than what it will cost him, financially and politically.
This ^ (I corrected a typo.)

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 26th April 2023 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 26th April 2023, 07:27 PM   #362
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https://apnews.com/article/9605e94c0...24ad982f38dcbb

Quote:
As court was about to begin Wednesday, Trump used Truth Social to vent his feelings again about the [E Jean Carroll] case and alluded to a DNA issue that Judge Lewis A. Kaplan has ruled can’t be part of the case.

He wasn’t pleased.

Trump, the judge said, appeared to be addressing his supporters and the jury “about stuff that has no business being spoken about.” Kaplan called Trump’s post “a public statement that, on the face of it, seems entirely inappropriate.”

Trump attorney Joe Tacopina noted that jurors are told not to follow any news or online commentary about the trial. But he said he would ask Trump “to refrain from any further posts about this case.”
Good luck with that, Tacopina.
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Old 26th April 2023, 08:43 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
No no! Let Trump speak! His voice must be heard! He must not be canceled!




Only just because it would be fun to see Donny do 30 days in the pokey for contempt.
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Old 26th April 2023, 09:07 PM   #364
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I would so like to see him thrown in jail for contempt of court, finally. But it seems he can do just about anything short of whipping out the porcini and pissing on the bench, and I wouldn't bet anything of value even then.
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Old 27th April 2023, 06:01 AM   #365
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Funniest part might also be being a fly-on-the-wall when Tacopenis the thick-necked mook tries to tell Donny to STFU.
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Old 27th April 2023, 12:41 PM   #366
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Meanwhile. trump gets a solid bounce with people who describe themselves as GOP supporters likely to vote in the 2024 primary. An NBC News poll conducted April 14-18 after trump’s arrest and arraignment in New York City indicated trump is surging.
Quote:
A whopping two-thirds of Republican primary voters say they stand behind former President Donald Trump and dismiss concerns about his electability, despite his recent criminal arrest and other legal investigations into his past conduct, a new national NBC News poll finds. That — along with his double-digit lead over his nearest potential GOP rival, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — makes Trump the clear front-runner in the early race for the Republican presidential nomination. NBC News link


No other candidate is like him? You got that right!
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Old 27th April 2023, 01:23 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Meanwhile. trump gets a solid bounce with people who describe themselves as GOP supporters likely to vote in the 2024 primary. An NBC News poll conducted April 14-18 after trump’s arrest and arraignment in New York City indicated trump is surging.




No other candidate is like him? You got that right!
Wow 26% of GOPers don't think its political persecution. Higher than I would've expected.
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Old 27th April 2023, 02:45 PM   #368
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I read a “transcript” of Carroll’s cross examination on Twitter.

I believe that Trump is fully capable of the acts she alleges. I tend to believe her. But there are enough discrepancies in her accounts, combined with the time delay, that I might have trouble as a juror finding for her. I know it just takes a preponderance of the evidence, but I’m not sure even that low bar has been reached - at least not so far.
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Old 27th April 2023, 03:18 PM   #369
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I don't think the 26% of GOP primary voters who chose, "It is important to nominate a candidate who will not be distracted and can beat Joe Biden," necessarily rejected the notion that trump's prosecutions are "politically motivated to stop trump," they just didn't choose it.

Quote:
A lawyer for Donald Trump repeatedly pressed E. Jean Carroll on Thursday about her inability to recall the precise date on which she says Trump raped her nearly three decades ago. Politico news link
If I was a juror in E. Jean Carroll's lawsuit against trump, I would find for her without even hearing the evidence!
  • Court clerk: Okay, before I take you into the courtroom, does anybody have any questions?
  • Juror 4 (me): Can we vote now?
  • Court clerk: I don't...? You mean, without hearing the evidence?
  • Juror 4 (me):
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Old 27th April 2023, 03:19 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I read a “transcript” of Carroll’s cross examination on Twitter.

I believe that Trump is fully capable of the acts she alleges. I tend to believe her. But there are enough discrepancies in her accounts, combined with the time delay, that I might have trouble as a juror finding for her. I know it just takes a preponderance of the evidence, but I’m not sure even that low bar has been reached - at least not so far.
I read that she doesn't have any corroborating evidence, too, which lessens her chances. I don't doubt Trump could have done it, but she faces a tough battle in court.
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Old 27th April 2023, 03:45 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I read that she doesn't have any corroborating evidence, too, which lessens her chances. I don't doubt Trump could have done it, but she faces a tough battle in court.
I believe there are two women she confided in shortly after the incident that are expected to testify.
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Old 27th April 2023, 04:04 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I read a “transcript” of Carroll’s cross examination on Twitter.

I believe that Trump is fully capable of the acts she alleges. I tend to believe her. But there are enough discrepancies in her accounts, combined with the time delay, that I might have trouble as a juror finding for her. I know it just takes a preponderance of the evidence, but I’m not sure even that low bar has been reached - at least not so far.
What discrepancies are there? From what I've heard, there aren't any.

The time delay is understandable. The majority of rapes are never reported due to many factors: shame, embarrassment, fear that they won't be believed, fear of a powerful perpetrator, etc. As the jury was told, "Ms Carroll had grown up in a post-World War II generation of “grin and bear it”, and decided to remain silent." Carroll said, “Women who are raped are looked at as soiled goods. They’re looked at as less.” One of the women she confided in soon after the event told her that Trump would use his team of lawyers to make her life difficult and advised her not to go to the police.

Quote:
Women also often blame themselves as Carroll testified: “When you asked me what I did in that moment, I always think back to why I walked in there to get myself in that situation,” she said, crying. “But I did get out.”
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Old 27th April 2023, 05:01 PM   #373
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I really do hope her case does succeed.
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Old 27th April 2023, 05:21 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What discrepancies are there? From what I've heard, there aren't any.
To repeat: I think Trump is capable of this and very well may have done it. I’m on her side, as it were.

But as I read the cross-examination “transcript” today, her story did seem inconsistent. I put “transcript” in quotes, since it was someone posting on Twitter from his notes in the courtroom. Let me see if I can find things I felt were weaknesses in her story, though truthfully I hate being put in the position of casting doubt on her.
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Old 27th April 2023, 06:31 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
To repeat: I think Trump is capable of this and very well may have done it. I’m on her side, as it were.

But as I read the cross-examination “transcript” today, her story did seem inconsistent. I put “transcript” in quotes, since it was someone posting on Twitter from his notes in the courtroom. Let me see if I can find things I felt were weaknesses in her story, though truthfully I hate being put in the position of casting doubt on her.
I don't think you're casting doubt on her at all. It's just that I heard her story was very consistent so was wondering what inconsistencies you were referring to.
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Old 27th April 2023, 06:36 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
I believe there are two women she confided in shortly after the incident that are expected to testify.
Ah, that's good.

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
To repeat: I think Trump is capable of this and very well may have done it. I’m on her side, as it were.

But as I read the cross-examination “transcript” today, her story did seem inconsistent. I put “transcript” in quotes, since it was someone posting on Twitter from his notes in the courtroom. Let me see if I can find things I felt were weaknesses in her story, though truthfully I hate being put in the position of casting doubt on her.
Can I have a link to the Twitter thread?
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Old 28th April 2023, 05:59 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think you're casting doubt on her at all. It's just that I heard her story was very consistent so was wondering what inconsistencies you were referring to.
One small example is on the one hand, her not even being able to pin down the year that it happened. Weird, but perhaps understandable. But now, decades later, she suddenly recalls it was on a Thursday. As skeptics, we all know how false memories work - every time you dredge up a memory and put it away again, it gets stored in a slightly modified form. Knowing Trump, I believe the gist of her story. But have to wonder about the details.

Orphia, I tried but can’t find the Twitter thread. I tried Googling, but just get snippets. I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, and if I stumble upon it, I’ll post it here.
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Old 28th April 2023, 07:15 AM   #378
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If you Google "jean carroll cross examination twitter," you'll get a lot of links. I'm finding bits and pieces of Carroll's testimony, but not an actual transcript. She was cross-examined for over three hours so it would be a very lengthy transcript.

When people can't find something, Eddie have you checked your browser history?

Isn't the bottom line, whether you believe her or not? Do you believe she is telling the truth, that she was sexually attacked by donald trump? This happened almost thirty years ago so I wouldn't expect her to remember every detail. Her failing to recall details -- such as the year this happened -- is a problem but I don't see it as a make-or-break. Either you believe it happened or you don't. If you believe it happened then you have to find for Carroll. If you think she's lying you have to find for trump.
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Old 28th April 2023, 10:07 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Isn't the bottom line, whether you believe her or not? Do you believe she is telling the truth, that she was sexually attacked by donald trump?
I think she is probably telling the truth. Key word: "probably".

And this being a civil trial for damages, "probably" is enough. But I'm just not sure of all the details in her account.

Let me tread very cautiously here, so as not to paint myself as a male chauvinist pig...

In her account of the rape, I can easily visualize just about everything she relates - and it all seems consistent with Trump's prior behavior and statements. But I have trouble when it gets to the "penis insertion" part. In a dressing room, with her fully dressed at the start, in high heels and getting pushed against a wall and being kissed and groped and struggling the whole time. How does he manage to get her in a position to penetrate her? I just can't see it, but maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part. Curious if our female members can more easily imagine it and help me see how it might have played out.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 28th April 2023 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 28th April 2023, 11:15 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think she is probably telling the truth. Key word: "probably".

And this being a civil trial for damages, "probably" is enough. But I'm just not sure of all the details in her account.

Let me tread very cautiously here, so as not to paint myself as a male chauvinist pig...

In her account of the rape, I can easily visualize just about everything she relates - and it all seems consistent with Trump's prior behavior and statements. But I have trouble when it gets to the "penis insertion" part. In a dressing room, with her fully dressed at the start, in high heels and getting pushed against a wall and being kissed and groped and struggling the whole time. How does he manage to get her in a position to penetrate her? I just can't see it, but maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part. Curious if our female members can more easily imagine it and help me see how it might have played out.
A dressing room has only one way in or out, and they often have something like a bench on one side. He ether forced her into a corner on the bench, somewhat seated, or had her jammed into one of the other corners, standing. Nether prevents him forcing her legs apart and, well. Yeah, he did it.
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Old 28th April 2023, 01:11 PM   #381
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'Come here and give me a hug, you seditious bitch!'

Originally Posted by NBC News
Micki Larson-Olson, who served months in jail for her actions on Jan. 6, told NBC News that politicians who certified the results of the 2020 election deserve to be be killed for treason.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...uted-rcna81958
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Old 28th April 2023, 01:15 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
One small example is on the one hand, her not even being able to pin down the year that it happened. Weird, but perhaps understandable. But now, decades later, she suddenly recalls it was on a Thursday. As skeptics, we all know how false memories work - every time you dredge up a memory and put it away again, it gets stored in a slightly modified form. Knowing Trump, I believe the gist of her story. But have to wonder about the details.

Orphia, I tried but can’t find the Twitter thread. I tried Googling, but just get snippets. I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, and if I stumble upon it, I’ll post it here.
Thanks. However, that's not an inconsistency. Carroll has always said it was in the mid-1990's--1995 or 1996. That's just not being sure which year it was 27 to 28 years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I think she is probably telling the truth. Key word: "probably".

And this being a civil trial for damages, "probably" is enough. But I'm just not sure of all the details in her account.

Let me tread very cautiously here, so as not to paint myself as a male chauvinist pig...

In her account of the rape, I can easily visualize just about everything she relates - and it all seems consistent with Trump's prior behavior and statements. But I have trouble when it gets to the "penis insertion" part. In a dressing room, with her fully dressed at the start, in high heels and getting pushed against a wall and being kissed and groped and struggling the whole time. How does he manage to get her in a position to penetrate her? I just can't see it, but maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part. Curious if our female members can more easily imagine it and help me see how it might have played out.
It's not that difficult for a not then overweight, 6'2" tall, then 49 yr. old man to overpower a then 51 year old woman and rape her even standing up. She was forced up against a wall which would inhibit her ability to move while he still could.
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Old 28th April 2023, 01:20 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
'Come here and give me a hug, you seditious bitch!'



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...uted-rcna81958
It's disturbing to hear these morons thanking Trump.
Why do so many MAGAs dress like they're at a 4th of July costume contest? Just weird.
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Old 28th April 2023, 02:08 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
A dressing room has only one way in or out, and they often have something like a bench on one side. He ether forced her into a corner on the bench, somewhat seated, or had her jammed into one of the other corners, standing. Nether prevents him forcing her legs apart and, well.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's not that difficult for a not then overweight, 6'2" tall, then 49 yr. old man to overpower a then 51 year old woman and rape her even standing up. She was forced up against a wall which would inhibit her ability to move while he still could.
I suppose it’s possible. I still have trouble envisioning it. Might just be a limitation on my part. But still very curious how this will play out in the eyes of the jury.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 28th April 2023 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 28th April 2023, 02:26 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's disturbing to hear these morons thanking Trump.
Why do so many MAGAs dress like they're at a 4th of July costume contest? Just weird.
What cracks me up is when they attempt Revollutionary war costumes.
Real Revolutionary War reenactors just laugh their heads off at them.
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Old 28th April 2023, 04:12 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What cracks me up is when they attempt Revollutionary war costumes.
Real Revolutionary War reenactors just laugh their heads off at them.
Cartoon costumes for cartoon "patriots".
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Old 28th April 2023, 06:00 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
'Come here and give me a hug, you seditious bitch!'
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...uted-rcna81958
Wow, just wow!

From the link:
Quote:
Micki Larson-Olson added that she “would like a front seat of Mike Pence being executed" and that he should be the "No. 1" person on her list of those who committed treason.

“Listen, you just hang in there,” Trump said, calling her a “terrific woman" and kissing her on the cheek.
Larson-Olson said she drove 2,000 miles from Abilene Texas to see trump in New Hampshire. She said hugging trump was "what it would be like to hug Jesus Christ."

Seriously, Micki?
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Old 28th April 2023, 06:23 PM   #388
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Micki needs some therapy. Lots of it and ASAP.
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Old 28th April 2023, 06:35 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Micki needs some therapy. Lots of it and ASAP.
After reading about her...

Yeah...


Uh...wow



Like...I can't even...

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Old 29th April 2023, 03:16 AM   #390
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It still surprises me how some of these folks are so primed for a Messiah that even someone as crass as Trump can fit the bill.
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Old 29th April 2023, 04:18 AM   #391
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The crassness is part of what makes him fit. For years before they settled on him, their idea of a political messiah was that he would need to be as unlike other politicians as possible and turn as many normal politicians against him as possible. So the more different from the over-polished usual he is and the more betrayals he suffers from those around him, the better he fits what they wanted ahead of time. What would be surprising is if they had somehow settled on anybody who wasn't a crass narcissist despite that person's not fitting the idea very well.
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Old 29th April 2023, 04:20 AM   #392
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Micki Larson-Olson served a jail sentence for her actions on Jan 6. She has said every member of Congress and the Senate who voted to certify the 2020 election was a traitor and should be executed, starting with former vice president Mike Pence. trump calls her "terrific." I think we all know why trump would celebrate this woman as being terrific. It's part of his con, what he does, with the ultimate aim of getting himself back into the White House.

trump is undoubtedly incapable of understanding how dangerous his actions and words are but Liz Cheney sees it.



trump is becoming a monster, a very dangerous one.
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Old 29th April 2023, 04:31 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I suppose it’s possible. I still have trouble envisioning it. Might just be a limitation on my part.
The part I never get isn't which person would be stronger. It's the attacker having only two hands to restrain the victim with and more than two points on the victim's body that would seem to require restraint. But the same strange math there has always been the case for most rapes, so a political thread about one particular politician isn't a good fit for that subject.
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Old 29th April 2023, 04:56 AM   #394
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The scary part. Micki Larson-Olsen is a retired US Air Force Master Sgt. I didn't see that coming! In 2007 she deployed to Iraq. She's married with two kids. Thirteen things about Micki Larson-Olsen Conandaily link

Larson-Olsen without the wig and shades.
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Old 29th April 2023, 05:43 AM   #395
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She reminds me of Millie Tant
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Old 29th April 2023, 07:01 AM   #396
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Trump is now talking 15 weeks for abortion but I don't know what he means.

Democrats could start a bill in 2025 that basically takes the abortion and the fetus out of state and federal government control the first 15 weeks. They can then fight state by state for the rest. The states could even ban abortion pills by mail and telehealth. To stop the abortion at 16 weeks. I don't know if the pill would work then, for those desperate to try it.
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Old 29th April 2023, 07:39 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Trump is now talking 15 weeks for abortion but I don't know what he means.
Odds are, neither does he.

President Trump says many mutually exclusive things and does very little.

In truth he may say things to get elected but will lose interest if successful.
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Old 29th April 2023, 07:44 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
...

trump is becoming a monster, a very dangerous one.
I sure that if he gets elected (by some strange horrible alignment of circumstances -- it's happened before) his first order of business will be REVENGE. And will have no qualms about using all his power and beyond to smack down everyone he believes has slighted him.
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Old 29th April 2023, 08:22 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
trump is becoming a monster, a very dangerous one.
Becoming? He's been a very dangerous one for a long time, I think.

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Odds are, neither does he.

President Trump says many mutually exclusive things and does very little.

In truth he may say things to get elected but will lose interest if successful.
Indeed. He'll say pretty much whatever he thinks an audience would prefer to hear and then... well, look at his prescription drug stuff? He talked up his willingness and his "accomplishments," but what did he and his administration actually do? Occasionally, a bit of showy nothing. That, while more quietly taking a number of moves to make the problem worse.
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Old 29th April 2023, 10:49 AM   #400
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How many times does now open Fascism have to punch Americans in the face before we realize that law does not solve problems when explicit and open totalitarianism is now the law?
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