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Old 26th June 2023, 04:35 AM   #121
Bogative
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
We don't know the circumstances. Were they peering through the window with binoculars as the son was putting his clothes on, or was the son standing at the bedroom window overlooking the neighbour's yard fondling his dick?

From another article.


Quote:
“So we got new downstairs neighbors 2 weeks ago. They have two teenage boys, one just graduated and the other one does next year. We share a backyard, my kids stay on their side but they are out there a lot. They jump on the trampoline with the sprinkler. Almost every single time the older boy goes outside on his porch and seems to be watching them. I tried to brush it off since it’s their yard too but my momma gut couldn’t shake it,” she wrote.

The post says that the two girls were coloring with chalk in the in the backyard when one told her “the boy is in the window” exposing himself and masturbating.

“I make an effort to not look in their windows so the fact that he was standing right in front of it and my daughters saw everything is absolutely disgusting,” she wrote.
And

Quote:
Katy James told Spokesman-Review that Devin Smith had a “learning disability and struggled socially,” but a classmate, Daisy Sawyer, told the newspaper Smith “harassed her at school and was known to be inappropriate.”
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Old 26th June 2023, 04:48 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Again people here are arguing about the type of shootings and killings rather than being appalled that they are happening at all! This kind of thing just doesn't happen with the same frequency in the rest of the (supposedly) civilized world. And for Hercules to adopt an "I'm all right Jack" stance to this is horrifying.
It's certainly a very American discussion. Pretty much everyone recognizes that any kind of meaningfully broad anti-gun legislation is a non-starter , so the best you can hope for is nibbling around the edges of the issue and people bickering about what tiny subset of gun violence is the most important to address.
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Old 26th June 2023, 09:38 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Kansas City shooting leaves 3 people dead and 5 injured.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/25/us/mi...hooting-sunday

Some more information about the shooting is available. It appears that someone was hosting an illegal party at a business that was rented out and they were illegally serving alcohol. An argument occurred which led to the mass shooting.

The mayor shows up later that morning with press and police and this happens:
Quote:
She and the mayor urged this community to stop the violence and speak up so those responsible can be held accountable.

“I talked to some people. We had a good conversation for a minute and then somebody else, like, put their finger over their mouth to indicate staying quiet. I think that’s regrettable,” Lucas said.

This is a culture of criminality, not gun culture.
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Old 26th June 2023, 09:42 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
It's certainly a very American discussion. Pretty much everyone recognizes that any kind of meaningfully broad anti-gun legislation is a non-starter , so the best you can hope for is nibbling around the edges of the issue and people bickering about what tiny subset of gun violence is the most important to address.
We could, like the GOP apparently wants, start enforcing the "Hunter Biden" gun possession law as a felony. Lets round up every single gun owner with addiction issues. I'm sure that's only 20 or 30 million people.
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Old 26th June 2023, 09:45 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
We could, like the GOP apparently wants, start enforcing the "Hunter Biden" gun possession law as a felony. Lets round up every single gun owner with addiction issues. I'm sure that's only 20 or 30 million people.
you would have to be a crime-loving liberal not to support this!
Where is your support for the Police if you want druggies to endanger themselves and others ???
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Old 26th June 2023, 10:53 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
As you say, IF.

We don't know the circumstances. Were they peering through the window with binoculars as the son was putting his clothes on, or was the son standing at the bedroom window overlooking the neighbour's yard fondling his dick?

That said, even deliberate exhibitionism doesn't merit being shot.
We don't know at what time the incident occurred. If it was nighttime, the teenager could have been changing in his room. With the light on, anything in the interior is visible to the outside. We also don't know where the mother and daughters were. If they were indoors, their view of the teen's window should have been obscured by the lighting in their own room, which tends to make their window act more like a mirror. Perhaps they were outside at the time, or had dimmed their lights because they were watching TV.

In any event, this is another thing that Americans get all hot and bothered about: equating nakedness with sexuality and wrongdoing. Both have their roots in the States' Puritan heritage. In my opinion, a naked person inside his own home should elicit no more that a double-take.
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Old 26th June 2023, 11:02 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
In my opinion, a naked person inside his own home should elicit no more that a double-take.
A naked person masturbating with two young girls in his view probably would warrant more than a double-take. Assuming that's true of course, bit difficult to get the teenagers side of the story, being dead and all that.
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Old 26th June 2023, 11:24 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
A naked person masturbating with two young girls in his view probably would warrant more than a double-take. Assuming that's true of course, bit difficult to get the teenagers side of the story, being dead and all that.
Sure, I agree. But also doesn't warrant a quadruple murder.

Although now that I think about it. You call the police. By the time they get there, the shows probably over. Whats your other option? Record it for evidence. GJ You've just made child porn, and handed over evidence of a felony.

Still doesnt excuse a quadruple murder.
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Old 26th June 2023, 11:34 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
We don't know at what time the incident occurred. If it was nighttime, the teenager could have been changing in his room. With the light on, anything in the interior is visible to the outside. We also don't know where the mother and daughters were. If they were indoors, their view of the teen's window should have been obscured by the lighting in their own room, which tends to make their window act more like a mirror. Perhaps they were outside at the time, or had dimmed their lights because they were watching TV.

In any event, this is another thing that Americans get all hot and bothered about: equating nakedness with sexuality and wrongdoing. Both have their roots in the States' Puritan heritage. In my opinion, a naked person inside his own home should elicit no more that a double-take.
see post #121
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Old 26th June 2023, 04:44 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Saginaw, Michigan rings in this weekend with 2 killed, 12 wounded.

An argument at a "street party" led to a fight which turned into gunplay.




Must've been the far-right superduper extremist Michigan militiamen i'm always hearing about.

https://midmichigannow.com/news/loca...ty-in-saginaw#
Hey, I live in Saginaw. First I heard of it.
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Old 26th June 2023, 04:46 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Again people here are arguing about the type of shootings and killings rather than being appalled that they are happening at all! This kind of thing just doesn't happen with the same frequency in the rest of the (supposedly) civilized world. And for Hercules to adopt an "I'm all right Jack" stance to this is horrifying.
I'm still unsure why gang-related shootings "don't count". Why not?
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Old 26th June 2023, 04:58 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm still unsure why gang-related shootings "don't count". Why not?

Because they're "thugs".

Also, probably not white. And if they are it's still different, for ... reasons.
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Old 26th June 2023, 05:20 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
It's certainly a very American discussion.
The rest of the world does not have room to speak. Did you know almost twice as many people in Europe are murdered by ghost guns compared to the US?
Granted, like a lot of pro-gun arguments, I just made that up, but it sounded scary.
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Old 26th June 2023, 05:27 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm still unsure why gang-related shootings "don't count". Why not?
Pretty sure he is saying that they apparently don't count in the eyes of many posters here, not that he thinks that they don't or shouldn't actually count.
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Old 26th June 2023, 05:29 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The rest of the world does not have room to speak. Did you know almost twice as many people in Europe are murdered by ghost guns compared to the US?
Granted, like a lot of pro-gun arguments, I just made that up, but it sounded scary.

Don't let the MAGAchud wingnuts hear about that. They'll be going crazy over transgender pedophiles armed with 'ghost guns' in no time.
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Old 26th June 2023, 05:43 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm still unsure why gang-related shootings "don't count". Why not?
I imagine the numbers would not support the preferred racial narratives if you leave them out.
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Old 26th June 2023, 08:18 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm still unsure why gang-related shootings "don't count". Why not?
The approved narrative is about how some suburban white guy with an NRA membership is the greatest threat to society. Gang-related shootings are overwhelming young black guys in the city. If there's one subject the talking heads do not want to discuss, it's that.

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Old 27th June 2023, 03:50 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Pretty sure he is saying that they apparently don't count in the eyes of many posters here, not that he thinks that they don't or shouldn't actually count.
I have actually seen some stats which don't include them for some reason, I remember it came up in another thread.

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news...iolence-apply/

"From law enforcement to academics to the media, the definitions vary from the number of fatalities to whether a shooting that injures several people but doesn't kill anybody is a mass shooting. Gang-related shootings tend to not fit that definition.

"Because mass shootings that stem from domestic and gang violence are contextually distinct from high-fatality indiscriminate killings in public venues, some have argued that they should be treated separately," RAND reported.

A study done in 2002 on mass public shootings excluded incidents of gang activity and drug dealing"
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Old 27th June 2023, 07:32 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
I have actually seen some stats which don't include them for some reason, I remember it came up in another thread.

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news...iolence-apply/

"From law enforcement to academics to the media, the definitions vary from the number of fatalities to whether a shooting that injures several people but doesn't kill anybody is a mass shooting. Gang-related shootings tend to not fit that definition.

"Because mass shootings that stem from domestic and gang violence are contextually distinct from high-fatality indiscriminate killings in public venues, some have argued that they should be treated separately," RAND reported.

A study done in 2002 on mass public shootings excluded incidents of gang activity and drug dealing"
I almost get gang shootings that involve gang members only as treated differently,sort of like a private business endeavor more than a public nuisance. If they involve bystanders, then they should be treated as any other mass shooting.

ETA: but I'm pretty sure his subtle point was that some posters here dismiss some shootings as "gang activity", when the articles don't even suggest that it had anything to do with gangs.
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Last edited by Thermal; 27th June 2023 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 27th June 2023, 09:24 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Some more information about the shooting is available. It appears that someone was hosting an illegal party at a business that was rented out and they were illegally serving alcohol. An argument occurred which led to the mass shooting.

The mayor shows up later that morning with press and police and this happens:


This is a culture of criminality, not gun culture.
Both in Belgium and the Netherlands there were two illegal rave parties lasting 2-3 days.
Noone was shot. Not even by the police.
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Old 27th June 2023, 09:32 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I almost get gang shootings that involve gang members only as treated differently,sort of like a private business endeavor more than a public nuisance. If they involve bystanders, then they should be treated as any other mass shooting.

ETA: but I'm pretty sure his subtle point was that some posters here dismiss some shootings as "gang activity", when the articles don't even suggest that it had anything to do with gangs.
The DOJ separates out gangland(ie mafia) and youth gang violence as separate categories. However, yeah, I think some of this recent shootings at parties etc were not necessarily gang violence. A poster or two here seems to think because they were non-white and young, that it was gang violence. I also think for the DOJ categories it has to be gang acting as a gang and not, for example, a member of a gang mad that his GF is at a party with another guy and shooting it up.
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Old 27th June 2023, 01:39 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
see post #121
Thanks for pointing to the information.
Edited by sarge:  removed uncivil content
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Last edited by sarge; 27th June 2023 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 28th June 2023, 03:02 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
That's bug-**** crazy. I mean, it sounds like it was inevitable that something was going to set this guy off, but how damaged by prudish morality do you have to be to think that slaughtering an entire family was warranted by a glimpse of some teenager's junk? He needs to spend the rest of his life behind bars.
The same sort as the people who maintain exposure to drag storytelling will wrap children?
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Old 28th June 2023, 04:28 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Sure, I agree. But also doesn't warrant a quadruple murder.

Although now that I think about it. You call the police. By the time they get there, the shows probably over. Whats your other option? Record it for evidence. GJ You've just made child porn, and handed over evidence of a felony.

Still doesnt excuse a quadruple murder.
What about talking to the boy’s parents as a first step?
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Old 28th June 2023, 10:04 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
What about talking to the boy’s parents as a first step?
When you've got a gun, you don't need to talk.
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Old 29th June 2023, 12:00 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
A naked person masturbating with two young girls in his view probably would warrant more than a double-take. Assuming that's true of course, bit difficult to get the teenagers side of the story, being dead and all that.
Do you have *any* reason at all to assume that what you just wrote is remotely true? If not, please don't make stuff up.
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Old 29th June 2023, 12:21 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Do you have *any* reason at all to assume that what you just wrote is remotely true? If not, please don't make stuff up.
Have you not read the article linked from post #121?
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Old 29th June 2023, 12:40 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The same sort as the people who maintain exposure to drag storytelling will wrap children?
Really?
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Old 29th June 2023, 01:01 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Really?
'Warp' not 'wrap'.
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Old 29th June 2023, 08:14 AM   #150
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Interesting case regarding the obligation on police to actually intervene in shootings.
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Old 29th June 2023, 08:18 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Interesting case regarding the obligation on police to actually intervene in shootings.
He was acquitted.
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Old 29th June 2023, 10:53 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"I got my life back. We've got our life back," what an insensitive ****.
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Old 30th June 2023, 12:12 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
So cowardice is fine. Typical for USAia.
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Old 30th June 2023, 12:28 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
"I got my life back. We've got our life back," what an insensitive ****.
That caught my eye.
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Old 30th June 2023, 05:42 AM   #155
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More on the Kansas City mass shooting.

Not "gang warfare" as some skeptics here at the ISF would call it, but a hug set off this mass shooting.

Quote:
According to the probable cause statement, one of the wounded told police the shooting started after she greeted one of the suspects and his girlfriend with a hug.

The victim's boyfriend then told the suspect to “watch his hands.” When the victim and her boyfriend began to walk away, the suspect took out a gun and fatally shot him in the back, according to the statement.

Another person pulled a gun and began shooting, striking the woman in the buttocks. The victim identified Greene as the man who shot her, according to the


The Kansas City police chief outed herself as a racist, White supremacist during a press briefing:
Quote:
Graves said the city has an "alarming number" of homicides, totaling 97 for the year on Tuesday. At this time last year, it was 73 — and the five-year average is 71, said Deputy Chief Luis Ortiz.

"I'd say we have a culture of violence where it's expected and accepted," Graves said. "I don't want to get desensitized to all of this violence."


1 of the 2 shooters, Keivon M Greene, was bonded out of jail 2 days earlier for resisting arrest.
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Old 30th June 2023, 07:07 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
"I got my life back. We've got our life back," what an insensitive ****.
Exactly my thought. Of all the things to say in an incident where he did not do his job and intervene when kids were got killed. The father of one of the kids was rightfully incensed on a news interview on the case.
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Old 30th June 2023, 07:17 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
More on the Kansas City mass shooting.

Not "gang warfare" as some skeptics here at the ISF would call it, but a hug set off this mass shooting.





The Kansas City police chief outed herself as a racist, White supremacist during a press briefing:




1 of the 2 shooters, Keivon M Greene, was bonded out of jail 2 days earlier for resisting arrest.
In what manner did she do that
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Old 30th June 2023, 08:27 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
So cowardice is fine. Typical for USAia.
It's not fine. Just not criminal. It was a dubious criminal charge to begin with.

Some random 60 year old cop being put in a position where we expect him to go running into a building towards chaos and gunfire is absurd and contrary to pretty much everything we understand about how the human brain works.

Fire the guy, fine. Putting him on trial in order to give him a life sentence? A bit much.

He's a scapegoat for what amounts to a wide ranging catastrophic policy failure. Easier to blame this guy than to confront the absurdity of the whole idea of the cops being able to stop these shootings.

The cops assigned to these school details are often people playing out the string to retirement in what is a undemanding public relations job 99.999999% of the time. Then it suddenly becomes a real life FPS except one where if you react wrong you shoot a child.

A big reason policing is such a disaster is that we for various reasons put police in a position to fail and the police make it worse by demanding more and more opportunities to fail. Planning that officers will turn into Master Chief at the drop of a hat is among the dumbest ideas anyone has ever come up with. Trying to give one a life sentence for not doing so is revolting political theatre.
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Old 1st July 2023, 05:27 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
In what manner did she do that

She used the phrase "culture of violence." That is racism, or so I've been told by the skeptic community.
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Old 1st July 2023, 07:54 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Do you have *any* reason at all to assume that what you just wrote is remotely true? If not, please don't make stuff up.
This is what the shooters wife accused the boy of doing. I literally said "assuming that's true".
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