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Old 3rd November 2023, 11:34 AM   #1
theprestige
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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Leumas, you keep posting extremely long videos (some over an hour in duration) and let me just make mention that I'm kinda busy (like probably most of us here), and if you could summarize these for us, it would allow proper discussions to progress. TIA.
I'm not sure the progress of proper discussion is the idea here. I think the idea is that the video is supposed to supersede any discussion. You don't need to have a proper discussion; there's already an hour's worth of proper discussion that resolves the whole thing. So you can stop thinking now, stop discussing now, just consume the video to receive enlightenment from the proper discussion that others have already completed for you.

Leumas doesn't need to have a proper discussion with you. He's already consumed the video of other people having the discussion. It has already instilled Correct Thought in him. All he's asking is that you do the same, so that you and he can think the same, without any more discussion being required.

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Old 3rd November 2023, 12:03 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm not sure the progress of proper discussion is the idea here. I think the idea is that the video is supposed to supersede any discussion. You don't need to have a proper discussion; there's already an hour's worth of proper discussion that resolves the whole thing. So you can stop thinking now, stop discussing now, just consume the video to receive enlightenment from the proper discussion that others have already completed for you.

Leumas doesn't need to have a proper discussion with you. He's already consumed the video of other people having the discussion. It has already instilled Correct Thought in him. All he's asking is that you do the same, so that you and he can think the same, without any more discussion being required.
No thanks, when a video is titled "Israel's Apartheid" (and narrated by Alice Walker) I quickly close that window and instead go look for a nice Pizza Review from Davey Pageviews.
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Old 3rd November 2023, 12:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
No thanks, when a video is titled "Israel's Apartheid" (and narrated by Alice Walker) I quickly close that window and instead go look for a nice Pizza Review from Davey Pageviews.
I don't know if it's just an algorithm working to coincidence or if somebody somewhere is being cheeky, but I keep getting YouTube recommendations for clips from "Yes, Minister" discussing Israel and foreign relations. The sad part is that pretty much everything they said about it back then still applies today.
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Old 3rd November 2023, 02:41 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
If it was so simple, why does it take 1 hr and 34 minutes to explain?

It takes 10 years to become a doctor and 7 years to become a competent Architect... I think 94 minutes... shorter than a one lecture in one course in a university... is not much to ask so as to prevent

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Or, worse. have a little knowledge of history.Nothing is more danerous then somebody who has a little knowledge of something but thinks he is an expert.
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Old 3rd November 2023, 02:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Leumas, you keep posting extremely long videos (some over an hour in duration) and let me just make mention that I'm kinda busy (like probably most of us here), and if you could summarize these for us, it would allow proper discussions to progress. TIA.

I'm not sure the progress of proper discussion is the idea here. I think the idea is that the video is supposed to supersede any discussion. You don't need to have a proper discussion; there's already an hour's worth of proper discussion that resolves the whole thing. So you can stop thinking now, stop discussing now, just consume the video to receive enlightenment from the proper discussion that others have already completed for you....
Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
No thanks, when a video is titled "Israel's Apartheid" (and narrated by Alice Walker) I quickly close that window and instead go look for a nice Pizza Review from Davey Pageviews.

Yup...

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Or, worse. have a little knowledge of history.Nothing is more danerous then somebody who has a little knowledge of something but thinks he is an expert.

Last edited by Leumas; 3rd November 2023 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2023, 02:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Some evidently do not want to... as shown in this video.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Yes, Israelis can be dicks as anyone who's run into Israeli tourists can attest to. The general censuses has it that they're this way because their neighbors are constantly trying to kill them. I'll allow it.

They can have a wicked sense of humor though. Lwts take a trip down memory lane. Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

Just in case that song gets stuck in your head, here's an antidote. Meni Mamtera - Topic

And since we're posting music videos, this one's interesting. Well, I guess that depends on your definition of interesting, Novel for sure. The Houthi’s have declared war on Israel by releasing a jaunty musical.
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Old 3rd November 2023, 02:52 PM   #7
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The Issue

As far as the general discussion, a differnt solution might have been preferable.

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Old 3rd November 2023, 02:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Some evidently do not want to... as shown in this video.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Rape and murder is too good for anybody who would make videos like that.
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Old 3rd November 2023, 03:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, Israelis can be dicks as anyone who's run into Israeli tourists can attest to. The general censuses has it that they're this way because their neighbors are constantly trying to kill them. I'll allow it.

That is what Settler Colonialists ought to expect from the autochthonous populations they try to ethnically cleanse in order to create their apartheid settlements.


Originally Posted by Stout View Post
They can have a wicked sense of humor though. Lwts take a trip down memory lane. Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World
Nah... not good.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Just in case that song gets stuck in your head, here's an antidote. Meni Mamtera - Topic

Yah... this one is much nicer.


Originally Posted by Stout View Post
And since we're posting music videos, this one's interesting. Well, I guess that depends on your definition of interesting, Novel for sure. The Houthi’s have declared war on Israel by releasing a jaunty musical.

Pathetic and risible...
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Old 3rd November 2023, 03:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tristan Chi View Post
As far as the general discussion, a differnt solution might have been preferable.

My favorite WET DREAM is this...

Quote:
they learn that the mysterious complex is operated by a paramilitary group who wants to build a new Temple in Jerusalem after destroying the Dome of the Rock, hoping to speed the birth of the Messiah. An evangelical Christian Zionist American government supports the group.

As Landsman and Berko investigate, the News reports the Dome being bombed. American agents apprehend the detectives and offer them permission to stay in Sitka, if they agree to keep quiet about the plot they have uncovered.

For the last few weeks I wake up every day HOPING and WISHING with all my wishing upon all the stars... that this will happen.

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Old 3rd November 2023, 03:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Rape and murder is too good for anybody who would make videos like that.

No... but they are as repugnant as a rapist who makes a video mocking his rape victim.

Last edited by Leumas; 3rd November 2023 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 4th November 2023, 01:52 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
It takes 10 years to become a doctor and 7 years to become a competent Architect... I think 94 minutes... shorter than a one lecture in one course in a university... is not much to ask so as to prevent
Or you could explain.
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Old 4th November 2023, 03:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Or you could explain.

Or you could read a book....

But Ok then... here you go...
Europeans of a certain religion... were being persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the majority other Europeans of another religion.... and this religious discrimination eventually resulted in atrocities of a heinous scale.

The Europeans who survived all that atrocity decided they needed to get out of Europe and go take some other people's land and make it theirs.

Reminds you of something (or this one)?

The autochthonous natives of the land, the fleeing Europeans were taking, did not like that, so they tried to stop those Europeans.

But those fleeing Europeans were too well armed by other Europeans and trained in the use of those arms.

So they eventually did take the land from the simpler natives.

The Europeans fleeing from religious persecution put the natives in RESERVATIONS in which the Europeans decided they can keep those natives and control them more easily.

Sounds familiar?
But unlike in the Americas and Australia and Africa and other such places... those particular natives were not easily controlled or subdued.... much like the poor tenacious people of Masada and the relentless Maccabees or even the early Christian Martyrs... those natives kept on fighting against the European Settler Colonialists who took their lands.

And those natives are still not easy to control and now the Settler Colonialists are trying a FINAL SOLUTION on them.

The End.
Ah... and I forgot....
Much earlier European Settler Colonialists in America and Australia and Canada and other Europeans identify with the problem and keep helping with powerful weapons and BILION$$$ in order to facilitate the extirpation of those irksome pesky relentless natives.
ETA: and I forgot yet one more thing...
Ironically the Europeans of the majority religion who hated so much the fleeing Europeans, think their god will not come back until rivers of blood are shed by those fleeing Europeans killing and getting killed by those natives.... and that is the impetus behind them financing and egging on the fleeing Europeans... to precipitate and hasten the come of this god to end the world.

Last edited by Leumas; 4th November 2023 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 4th November 2023, 01:50 PM   #14
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BATTLEGROUND: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine Shmuel Katz 1973 ---
"Coexistence between ethnic groups in one political unit is not the happiest state in creation. Mankind has not, however, yet discovered the formula that will make self-government possible for every group of people. Destiny has so far seen to it that 10 percent of the world’s people live as minorities. For a group to live as a minority does not in itself involve special hardship. Life for a minority becomes hard, and even tragic, only when it is discriminated against, when it is ill-treated, and when it lives only as a minority, with nowhere a national territory of its own. Such an example, in varying degrees of severity, is the state of the Basques in Spain, of the Kurds in Iraq and Syria."

"The Arabs in their states have accommodated themselves enthusiastically to this universally sanctified phenomenon. Some seventy million Arabs live as majorities and rule over their minorities, sometimes discriminating against them moderately, sometimes exercising brutal repression, everywhere without embarrassment. It would be absurd, even grotesque, to suggest that there is something wrong, unjust, or immoral in the Arabs' millions living as a minority in Israel."
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Old 4th November 2023, 05:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
BATTLEGROUND: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine Shmuel Katz 1973 ---
"Coexistence between ethnic groups in one political unit is not the happiest state in creation.

Only for racists and xenophobes and hateful self-righteous supremacists.

If those scum are not given power... everyone can live together regardless... as has been done many times before until self-righteous scum wrenched power.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Mankind has not, however, yet discovered the formula that will make self-government possible for every group of people.

Nor does it need to if it were not for the RACIST XENOPHOBIC scum who do not want to and cannot live with other groups.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Destiny has so far seen to it that 10 percent of the world’s people live as minorities.

And that would be no problem whatsoever if the majority are not racist xenophobic SCUM


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
For a group to live as a minority does not in itself involve special hardship. Life for a minority becomes hard, and even tragic, only when it is discriminated against, when it is ill-treated, and when it lives only as a minority, with nowhere a national territory of its own.

So the abused become the Settler Colonialist ABUSERS of the natives of those lands they are fleeing to from the their abusers.

BECAUSE the minority themselves were also RACISTS and XENOPHOBIC too and could not tolerate the majority from where they came.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Such an example, in varying degrees of severity, is the state of the Basques in Spain, of the Kurds in Iraq and Syria."

Yes... those are good examples... the xenophobia and racism of the minority (the former).... and the racism and heinousness of the majority (the latter two)


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
"The Arabs in their states have accommodated themselves enthusiastically to this universally sanctified phenomenon.

Because they were ALLOWED TO and even TRAINED to by the French and British


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Some seventy million Arabs live as majorities and rule over their minorities, sometimes discriminating against them moderately, sometimes exercising brutal repression, everywhere without embarrassment.

Yes... because they are scum.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
It would be absurd, even grotesque, to suggest that there is something wrong, unjust, or immoral in the Arabs' millions living as a minority in Israel."

Ah... so two immoralities done by two racist xenophobic scums balances out???

It is a hideous fact of the psychology of the wretched humanity that many of the abused grow up to be grotesque abusers themselves.

Does having been abused make it any less CRIMINAL when they abuse as adults?

Do the victim of the adult abusing abuser have to feel less abused because their abuser was a victim of abuse?




.

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Old 4th November 2023, 05:40 PM   #16
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Leumas, seems that there's a lot of scum in this world. Most of whom get a pass.

Israel will emerge from this war and a mess will remain to clean up. I hope the Palestinians are up to the task. https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379516
Barry Shaw writes an op-ed about Gaza reconstruction being arranged by a regional board led by Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, the US and the UAE.
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Old 4th November 2023, 11:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
One death is tragedy, one million deaths is statistic.
Nailed it.

Since then, this thread has been basically just two extremists talking past each other.

Meanwhile, over 9,000 Gazans are said to be dead, and "The U.N. said about 1.5 million people in Gaza, or 70% of the population, have fled their homes. Food, water and the fuel needed for generators that power hospitals and other facilities is running out."

https://apnews.com/article/eb1dfa6af...24c7d819e17194

It's a ****-storm.
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Old 5th November 2023, 01:47 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Or you could read a book....

But Ok then... here you go...
Europeans of a certain religion... were being persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the majority other Europeans of another religion.... and this religious discrimination eventually resulted in atrocities of a heinous scale.

The Europeans who survived all that atrocity decided they needed to get out of Europe and go take some other people's land and make it theirs.

Reminds you of something (or this one)?

The autochthonous natives of the land, the fleeing Europeans were taking, did not like that, so they tried to stop those Europeans.

But those fleeing Europeans were too well armed by other Europeans and trained in the use of those arms.

So they eventually did take the land from the simpler natives.

The Europeans fleeing from religious persecution put the natives in RESERVATIONS in which the Europeans decided they can keep those natives and control them more easily.

Sounds familiar?
But unlike in the Americas and Australia and Africa and other such places... those particular natives were not easily controlled or subdued.... much like the poor tenacious people of Masada and the relentless Maccabees or even the early Christian Martyrs... those natives kept on fighting against the European Settler Colonialists who took their lands.

And those natives are still not easy to control and now the Settler Colonialists are trying a FINAL SOLUTION on them.

The End.
Ah... and I forgot....
Much earlier European Settler Colonialists in America and Australia and Canada and other Europeans identify with the problem and keep helping with powerful weapons and BILION$$$ in order to facilitate the extirpation of those irksome pesky relentless natives.
ETA: and I forgot yet one more thing...
Ironically the Europeans of the majority religion who hated so much the fleeing Europeans, think their god will not come back until rivers of blood are shed by those fleeing Europeans killing and getting killed by those natives.... and that is the impetus behind them financing and egging on the fleeing Europeans... to precipitate and hasten the come of this god to end the world.
How is your summary of the formation of Israel relevant to my original comment of;

"Both sides have people who want to kill the other, who are angry that there are people who want to kill them. Sadly, those are the people in charge..."

where you claim it is much simpler than that. It is a fact that those presently in charge in Israel and Gaza both think that violence is the solution.
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Old 5th November 2023, 05:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Nailed it.

Since then, this thread has been basically just two extremists talking past each other.

Meanwhile, over 9,000 Gazans are said to be dead, and "The U.N. said about 1.5 million people in Gaza, or 70% of the population, have fled their homes. Food, water and the fuel needed for generators that power hospitals and other facilities is running out."

https://apnews.com/article/eb1dfa6af...24c7d819e17194

It's a ****-storm.
Of course, I didn't see anyone in the streets of Washington DC yesterday (or London, or anywhere on Earth) demanding that HAMAS surrender, or that they return cadavers to Israel (in exchange for their own dead), or asking Gaza's leadership to make any effort whatsoever that would bring the IDF to withdraw and stop the war.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antis...article-771471

Yeah, the only thing that has been demanded of HAMAS is -- Nothing.

Indeed, the HAMAS has been bolstered and praised and acknowleged as acting properly, because they are embarked upon a path to create the conditions for the entire region to erupt in war, which might just be the war that causes the Jews so much pain that the State of Israel cannot any longer sustain itself and we must abandon our homes (even more than has already been happening during this war).

I am not being ambiguous here. HAMAS will surrender. Either they do it now, or they do it later, but they're going to.

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Old 5th November 2023, 09:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Of course, I didn't see anyone in the streets of Washington DC yesterday (or London, or anywhere on Earth) demanding that HAMAS surrender, or that they return cadavers to Israel (in exchange for their own dead), or asking Gaza's leadership to make any effort whatsoever that would bring the IDF to withdraw and stop the war.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antis...article-771471

Yeah, the only thing that has been demanded of HAMAS is -- Nothing.

Indeed, the HAMAS has been bolstered and praised and acknowleged as acting properly, because they are embarked upon a path to create the conditions for the entire region to erupt in war, which might just be the war that causes the Jews so much pain that the State of Israel cannot any longer sustain itself and we must abandon our homes (even more than has already been happening during this war).

I am not being ambiguous here.HAMAS will surrender.Either they do it now, or they do it later, but they're going to.
Heavy doubts, here. I'd give odds that they might disburse and disappear temporarily, but hate like that doesn't surrender. Al-Quaeda didn't surrender either. It may be decimated but the ideology just morphs into a new boss, same as the old boss.
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Old 5th November 2023, 09:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
No... but they are as repugnant as a rapist who makes a video mocking his rape victim.
Yes, yes, every bit as repugnant as a rapist who... wait, what?
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Old 5th November 2023, 09:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Or you could read a book....
This is a discussion forum. It's not a screening for interminably long videos, where we watch for over an hour of fluff to get a three sentence answer.
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Old 5th November 2023, 09:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Heavy doubts, here. I'd give odds that they might disburse and disappear temporarily, but hate like that doesn't surrender. Al-Quaeda didn't surrender either. It may be decimated but the ideology just morphs into a new boss, same as the old boss.
Maybe the word surrender isn't the right one. A surrender process in the past involved the leaders of the group being decimated going with a 'white flag' and submitting to the victors.
In the 20th Century, we witnessed several surrenders of note. (i.e. - Japan)
https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/1203...%20Article.pdf

Maybe we'll have to revise the entire concept of surrender?
"Given the centrality of the rule of surrender to realizing the humanitarian objective of
international humanitarian law, it is paramount that those involved in armed conflict are aware of
what conduct constitutes an act of surrender under international humanitarian law and thus when
its attendant legal obligation to ceasefire is triggered."

In other words, Hamas needs to be told in no uncertain terms that their leaders are obligated to surrender (coming out of hiding while waving the white flag) in order to obtain a ceasefire and cessation of IDF attacks. The leaders of Hamas are pure cowards, so I don't think they'll do so.
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Old 5th November 2023, 10:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Maybe the word surrender isn't the right one. A surrender process in the past involved the leaders of the group being decimated going with a 'white flag' and submitting to the victors.
In the 20th Century, we witnessed several surrenders of note. (i.e. - Japan)
https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/1203...%20Article.pdf

Maybe we'll have to revise the entire concept of surrender?
"Given the centrality of the rule of surrender to realizing the humanitarian objective of
international humanitarian law, it is paramount that those involved in armed conflict are aware of
what conduct constitutes an act of surrender under international humanitarian law and thus when
its attendant legal obligation to ceasefire is triggered."

In other words, Hamas needs to be told in no uncertain terms that their leaders are obligated to surrender (coming out of hiding while waving the white flag) in order to obtain a ceasefire and cessation of IDF attacks. The leaders of Hamas are pure cowards, so I don't think they'll do so.
SO you want a surrender where a few Hamas military leaders get tried, the entire political arm and their supreme leader remains in place, Israel invests massive amounts of money in repairing the infrastructure they damaged, takes responsibility for the defense of Gaza for the next 70 odd years and Palestinians otherwise have to take no responsibility for their part in this war at all? Oh and those involved in the worst excesses against humanity can start up companies and become rich?
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Old 5th November 2023, 10:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
SO you want a surrender where a few Hamas military leaders get tried, the entire political arm and their supreme leader remains in place, Israel invests massive amounts of money in repairing the infrastructure they damaged, takes responsibility for the defense of Gaza for the next 70 odd years and Palestinians otherwise have to take no responsibility for their part in this war at all? Oh and those involved in the worst excesses against humanity can start up companies and become rich?
According to many, the Palestinians have no responsibility, this entire fiasco is 100% the fault of Israel.

"**** Israel" is a common phrase heard throughout the world this week.
Yesterday, at the fenceline of the White House, American Secret Service agents, assigned to maintain security at the official residence of POTUS, were cursed ( "**** You" was the favorite phrase) and several kefiyyeh-masked people attempted to breach into the grounds.

SO, yeah, a Hamas-announced official surrender would work for me. Their rejection of that will take whatever shape it takes.
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Old 5th November 2023, 11:16 AM   #26
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When you get fired for saying the private bit out loud:

Quote:
Asked in an interview with ultra-orthodox radio station Radio Kol Berama whether an atomic bomb should be dropped on the enclave, junior heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu said “this is one of the possibilities.”

During the interview, the politician also said he objected to allowing any humanitarian aid into Gaza, saying “we wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid,” and that “there is no such thing as non-combatants in Gaza.”
j/k lol

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle...-was-an-option
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Old 5th November 2023, 02:29 PM   #27
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-qu...164653026.html

NYT writer Patrick Kingsley provides behind-the-scenes information about the Israelis seeking to evacuate hundreds of thousands of Palestinians across the Rafah border into N. Sinai.

“We expect not only the Egyptians, but the entire international community to make a genuine effort to support and accept the (displaced) residents of Gaza.” -- Danny Danon
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Old 5th November 2023, 03:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-qu...164653026.html

NYT writer Patrick Kingsley provides behind-the-scenes information about the Israelis seeking to evacuate hundreds of thousands of Palestinians across the Rafah border into N. Sinai.

“We expect not only the Egyptians, but the entire international community to make a genuine effort to support and accept the (displaced) residents of Gaza.” -- Danny Danon
The suggestion was dismissed by most of Israel’s interlocutors — who include the United States and Britain — because of the risk that such a mass displacement could become permanent. These countries fear that such a development might destabilize Egypt and lock significant numbers of Palestinians out of their homeland, according to the diplomats, who spoke anonymously in order to discuss a sensitive matter more freely.

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Old 5th November 2023, 05:44 PM   #29
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These other countries are not waging a war for their very existence.

Let me just mention one thing here -- if the Palestinian HAMAS thinks that loud and violent mass demonstrations in London, or Paris, or DC or anywhere, will get the Israelis to back off and let things return to "as they were" they're completely mistaken.

Both Gallant and Gantz are firmly committed to making sure that HAMAS never again has the opportunity to attack Israel from Gaza. If it requires producing 1-million refugees, then that's what's going to happen. The choice now is for HAMAS to consider. Are they going to continue with this madness, or bring it to a close with the release of living hostages to the Red Cross?
(The cadavers can be discussed after the rockets from Gaza stop).
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Old 5th November 2023, 05:50 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
These other countries are not waging a war for their very existence.

Let me just mention one thing here -- if the Palestinian HAMAS thinks that loud and violent mass demonstrations in London, or Paris, or DC or anywhere, will get the Israelis to back off and let things return to "as they were" they're completely mistaken.

Both Gallant and Gantz are firmly committed to making sure that HAMAS never again has the opportunity to attack Israel from Gaza. If it requires producing 1-million refugees, then that's what's going to happen. The choice now is for HAMAS to consider. Are they going to continue with this madness, or bring it to a close with the release of living hostages to the Red Cross?
(The cadavers can be discussed after the rockets from Gaza stop).
I always appreciate good comical hyperbole, but Hamas does not pose an existential threat to Israel's very existence. At most, they are an evil nuisance.
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Old 5th November 2023, 05:55 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I always appreciate good comical hyperbole, but Hamas does not pose an existential threat to Israel's very existence. At most, they are an evil nuisance.
Thousands of rockets are hardly "a nuisance". 1500 dead civilians are hardly "a nuisance".
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The suggestion was dismissed by most of Israel’s interlocutors — who include the United States and Britain — because of the risk that such a mass displacement could becoame permanent
That is what happened in 1947/8 and 1965... and has been going on for decades ALREADY.

The Palestinian refugees are many and the camps are numerous... loooong before the excuses they are making now... and there was no Hamas back then.

Quote:
Nearly one-third of the registered Palestine refugees, more than 1.5 million individuals, live in 58 recognized Palestine refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, the Syrian Arab Republic, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.


Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
These countries fear that such a development might destabilize Egypt and lock significant numbers of Palestinians out of their homeland, according to the diplomats, who spoke anonymously in order to discuss a sensitive matter more freely.

And why they do not mention these anymore?

Quote:
in the aftermath of the hostilities of June 1967 and the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, ten camps were established to accommodate a new wave of displaced persons, both refugees and non-refugees.

Or is it that every time there is a new Ethnic Cleansing the old ones get forgotten and the clock and the count gets reset?

Last edited by Leumas; 5th November 2023 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:02 PM   #33
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Hercules56, you apparently misunderstand the nature of HAMAS.

The head of the CIA William Burns has now arrived in Israel. Also, an unusual announcement was made by the Pentagon that a nuclear-armed sub is now positioned in the eastern Med.

If you think that this war is just an exercise in futility by the IDF, I'm pretty sure you're going to find out otherwise.

Israel is fighting for it's life. That's just the way it is. We cannot continue with this threat over our heads (literally).
It is a mistake for pundits to invent scenarios that assume a “day after” as if this were a conventional war that will clearly and cleanly give way to agreed or imposed postwar arrangements.

Gazan governance may be so seriously undermined that political disintegration accompanied by social and economic deterioration are far more likely than any ideal (or even manageable) arrangements.

Last edited by webfusion; 5th November 2023 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:09 PM   #34
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Nuclear armed sub can hit Middle East from anywhere, that's just silly. The whole point of nuclear armed sub is you don't know where it is.
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:09 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I always appreciate good comical hyperbole, but Hamas does not pose an existential threat to Israel's very existence. At most, they are an evil nuisance.

Yes they do... but not in the way he pretends...

If these wretched victims of Israel's settler colonialism and apartheid and ethnic cleansing are not swept away then sooner or later the consciousness of someone might force a One State solution since Israel already rendered the two states arrantly impossible.

If Israel is forced to integrate its VICTIMS in a just and lasting solution of ONE STATE... like in Afrikaans South Africa... the racist xenophobic supremacists consider that to be an existential danger for the JEWISH ONLY settler colonialist state.

Last edited by Leumas; 5th November 2023 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
... Or is it that every time there is a new Ethnic Cleansing the old ones get forgotten and the clock and the count gets reset?
There are around 5-million 'refugees' (at last dubious count) and they say it's a vital goal to establish themselves into a PalestineState.

OK, then let's see something viable. This "two-state" mantra is useless and anyone trying to again foist 1949 Lines on Israel will be in for a rude awakening.

The establishment of a basis for a NewPalestineState in Gaza/expanded into N. Sinai is being arranged as we speak. That conversation will be taking place with CIA Director Burns in Jerusalem.

This war is indeed a reset. About time.
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
This war is indeed a reset.

Yes... so all this Hamas claptrap is nothing but a ruse and and excuse... much like the USA used 9/11 as an excuse to raze Iraq and Libya and and and.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
About time.
For the Final Solution... thanks for admitting the truth.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
OK, then let's see something viable. This "two-state" mantra is useless and anyone trying to again foist 1949 Lines on Israel will be in for a rude awakening.

Thanks again for admitting the truth yet again.... and that all those alleged peace talks were nothing but chicanery and biding time.

Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
The establishment of a basis for a NewPalestineState in Gaza/expanded into N. Sinai is being arranged as we speak. That conversation will be taking place with CIA Director Burns in Jerusalem.

Thanks yet again for telling the truth about the ongoing ethnic cleansing and genocide to facilitate the Final Solution.


The victims of abuse have indeed become abusers themselves.
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:28 PM   #38
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
There are around 5-million 'refugees' (at last dubious count) and they say it's a vital goal to establish themselves into a PalestineState.

OK, then let's see something viable. This "two-state" mantra is useless and anyone trying to again foist 1949 Lines on Israel will be in for a rude awakening.

The establishment of a basis for a NewPalestineState in Gaza/expanded into N. Sinai is being arranged as we speak. That conversation will be taking place with CIA Director Burns in Jerusalem.

This war is indeed a reset. About time.
How ya gonna get millions of Palestinians from the West Bank into Gaza?

Cattle cars? Death march through the desert?
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:35 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Nuclear armed sub can hit Middle East from anywhere, that's just silly. The whole point of nuclear armed sub is you don't know where it is.
I heard that Israelis are lining up along the coastal beaches with binoculars, to catch a glimpse of this sub.

(Cue the scene from Spielberg's "1941" with the ferris wheel and Claude & Herbie and the dummy)
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Old 5th November 2023, 06:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Hercules56, you apparently misunderstand the nature of HAMAS.

The head of the CIA William Burns has now arrived in Israel. Also, an unusual announcement was made by the Pentagon that a nuclear-armed sub is not positioned in the eastern Med.

If you think that this war is just an exercise in futility by the IDF, I'm pretty sure you're going to find out otherwise.

Israel is fighting for it's life.....
Silly, ignorant hyperbole dismissed.
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