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Old 7th November 2023, 07:53 AM   #121
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The USA is forcing Israel to cease-fire. Its a beautiful thing.

We simply will not allow Zion to continue the genocide in Gaza.
A beautiful thing would have been forcing Hamas into a ceasefire before October 7th. Funny how that never happens.

Instead, the pattern is always that Hamas breaks a ceasefire, and then demands one when Israel retaliates. They **** around, but never want to find out. Why are you happy about enabling that?

Oh. Of course. I didn't even need to ask.
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Old 7th November 2023, 07:56 AM   #122
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There is a large and growing percentage of Israelis who feel that the best response to 10/7 is an increase in activity that reinforces and expands Jewish homesteads. In other words, instead of bringing about a reduction in Jewish communities across the entire land area, there will be the opposite effect.
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Old 7th November 2023, 07:59 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
There is a large and growing percentage of Israelis who feel that the best response to 10/7 is an increase in activity that reinforces and expands Jewish homesteads. In other words, instead of bringing about a reduction in Jewish communities across the entire land area, there will be the opposite effect.
That's fine. It will lead to one of two outcomes: the one-state solution where both peoples live side-by side as equal citizens of the same country from the Sea to the River, or Israel becoming a true racist Apartheid state and will face strong economic & diplomatic sanctions and isolation from the entire world.
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Old 7th November 2023, 08:01 AM   #124
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I see no reason for a cease fire until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

At the same time however, Israel ought to get its own terrorists into prison. Hard to see that happening when extremist settler activists with a history of encouraging terrorism and honoring murderers have high positions in the government.
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Old 7th November 2023, 08:06 AM   #125
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Regarding the entire concept of a ceasefire ---

See: 1949. Island of Rhodes. Armistices (cease-fire in-place, Separation of Forces Agreements)

Anyone who even remotely wants to know about the "1967 Borders" (the so-called PalestineState parameters) should read the documents and see what they literally say.

Here is a link to copies of the originals.
https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peac...0Agreement.pdf

This is Israel/Palestine 101, but it's amazing how many still aren't aware of the 1949 ceasefire accords.

I call attention specifically to Article II, para. 2
and Article VI, paras. 8 and 9

You're welcome. (The lines of 1949 were NOT borders)
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Old 7th November 2023, 08:26 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
That's fine. It will lead to one of two outcomes: the one-state solution where both peoples live side-by side as equal citizens of the same country from the Sea to the River, or Israel becoming a true racist Apartheid state and will face strong economic & diplomatic sanctions and isolation from the entire world.
You are neglecting to mention the possible third outcome.
A NewState in Gaza/N.sinai that fulfils the aspirations and deams of Palestinians worldwide to build and develop their own Nation in statu ascendi.

By the way, you must be aware that Israel RIGHT NOW is under strong economic and diplomatic sanctions. We have few friends and the UN is useless. Insurance companies are prohibiting the transit of their clients' aircraft, ships, trains (just kidding, Israel has no international rail nor road access to the North, South, East or West!)

Did you see the demonstration a few days ago in Washington DC?
What did the signs say?
Did even ONE sign say "Peace" (it's just one word, not too complicated)
Nope. I looked very closely, and there wasn't even a little sign with the well-known symbol.

This entire fiasco has become a duel of displaying dead kids' images, and trying to gain sympathy about whose dead kids should be considered more important?

Next week, in DC, the Jewish community will attempt to garner a massive crowd (11/14) and honestly, they are fully entitled to express their views by assembling, but the organizers had better be careful.
All it takes are 3 or 4 radical islamists to turn that day into a bloodbath (See: April 15, 2013 Boston)
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Old 7th November 2023, 08:38 AM   #127
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Oh, and one more thing (sorry for the multiple posts, there's lots of different angles to consider here)

Northern Gaza.
By the terms of the 1949 Rhodes Armistice Agreements (with Egypt) the Gaza Strip was defined on maps, with actual lines.
Those parameters form the basis of a claim by the Palestinians of what they consider "Their Lands" (let's leave aside the claim of ALL ARAB LANDS, which includes Israel itself).

As of today, those who talk about a ceasefire may not realize it, but Israel can argue properly that if we now enter into an official separation-of-forces ceasefire-in-place contract/agreement, the Palestinians can kiss the Northern Gaza area good-bye.

That's what happened in 1949, and I see no reason to think it couldn't again happen in 2023.
Israelis are very, very upset. Beyond what you can imagine, trust me.
The best action the people of Gaza can take right now is start to protesting loudly against their incompetent leaders. It's about the only thing that would even begin to reassure us that any type of Palestine State is a worthwhile goal at all.

Last edited by webfusion; 7th November 2023 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 7th November 2023, 08:44 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see no reason for a cease fire until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

At the same time however, Israel ought to get its own terrorists into prison. Hard to see that happening when extremist settler activists with a history of encouraging terrorism and honoring murderers have high positions in the government.
Also needed to reply to this one ---
Right now, the settlers are freaking out. They know all too well that murderous infiltrations are being planned by Hamas upon their communities. (see: Fogel family)

After this war, there will be new elections in Israel. That can be the subject of another thread topic.
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:06 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The USA is forcing Israel to cease-fire. Its a beautiful thing.

We simply will not allow Zion to continue the genocide in Gaza.
Meanwhile, in the real world Netanyahu announced no cease-fire without the return of the hostages. How's that "forcing Israel to cease-fire" working out?
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:20 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Yep. About ten years ago I concluded that the true practical aim of terrorism was to destabilize local or regional governance to the point where the terrorists could set up their own fiefdoms to rule as they saw fit. The removal of Jews from Israel and the removal of Israel from the map is an aspirational goal for Hamas. Exploiting Gazans for their own profit is a real, practical achievement.
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:23 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Meanwhile, in the real world Netanyahu announced no cease-fire without the return of the hostages. How's that "forcing Israel to cease-fire" working out?
I'd say its much more likely that Israel is no longer bombing Gaza because they are out of high value targets, and are focusing on the ground operation, rather than Biden "made them".
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Old 7th November 2023, 09:25 AM   #132
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It's also generally considered "best practice" to suspend artillery barrages once your ground force enters the target area.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:08 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Something that had flown under the radar for me:

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers



Is Israel allowing their own citizens to attack innocent Palestinians living in the West Bank and not doing anything to stop them? They are going to lose the moral high ground if they allow this.
they ARE stopping them!
Long enough to give them weapons.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:14 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
You are neglecting to mention the possible third outcome.
A NewState in Gaza/N.sinai that fulfils the aspirations and deams of Palestinians worldwide to build and develop their own Nation in statu ascendi.

By the way, you must be aware that Israel RIGHT NOW is under strong economic and diplomatic sanctions. We have few friends and the UN is useless. Insurance companies are prohibiting the transit of their clients' aircraft, ships, trains (just kidding, Israel has no international rail nor road access to the North, South, East or West!)

Did you see the demonstration a few days ago in Washington DC?
What did the signs say?
Did even ONE sign say "Peace" (it's just one word, not too complicated)
Nope. I looked very closely, and there wasn't even a little sign with the well-known symbol.

This entire fiasco has become a duel of displaying dead kids' images, and trying to gain sympathy about whose dead kids should be considered more important?

Next week, in DC, the Jewish community will attempt to garner a massive crowd (11/14) and honestly, they are fully entitled to express their views by assembling, but the organizers had better be careful.
All it takes are 3 or 4 radical islamists to turn that day into a bloodbath (See: April 15, 2013 Boston)
Meanwhile its the Zionists who have been showing up to anti-Israel protests armed with illegal guns.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:16 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Also needed to reply to this one ---
Right now, the settlers are freaking out. They know all too well that murderous infiltrations are being planned by Hamas upon their communities. (see: Fogel family)

After this war, there will be new elections in Israel. That can be the subject of another thread topic.
The Colonizers should be worried, as they are colluding with a war crime. If they are lucky they will not be treated as unlawful combatants even though they are heavily armed.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:24 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The Colonizers should be worried, as they are colluding with a war crime. If they are lucky they will not be treated as unlawful combatants even though they are heavily armed.
Are you conjecturing that Hamas might treat IDF as unlawful combatants and not honor Geneva conventions I'd say its a pretty ******* safe bet they won't.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:25 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Meanwhile its the Zionists who have been showing up to anti-Israel protests armed with illegal guns.
Meanwhile, in the real world.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/06/u...-protests.html

I see that you are very concerned with 2A rights for everyone, except Jews.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:26 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Are you conjecturing that Hamas might treat IDF as unlawful combatants and not honor Geneva conventions I'd say its a pretty ******* safe bet they won't.
No I think Hamas might treat the illegal racist Colonizers (aka West Bank settlers) as unlawful combatants.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:28 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Meanwhile, in the real world.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/06/u...-protests.html

I see that you are very concerned with 2A rights for everyone, except Jews.
I dont support anyone carrying guns illegally, especially so as to threaten and intimidate legal peaceful protestors.

Thats what one Zionist did a few weeks ago. She's been charged.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:29 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
No I think Hamas might treat the illegal racist Colonizers (aka West Bank settlers) as unlawful combatants.
You think a group that murders children, and teenagers at a lovey dovey music festival might treat civilians as unlawful combatants

Gee I think maybe they will.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:32 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
You think a group that murders children, and teenagers at a lovey dovey music festival might treat civilians as unlawful combatants

Gee I think maybe they will.
The IDF is willing and happy to kill dozens of Gazan civilians in order to take out one so-called "terrorist".

Is there really a difference? I'm no longer convinced.
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Old 7th November 2023, 10:58 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
That's fine. It will lead to one of two outcomes: the one-state solution where both peoples live side-by side as equal citizens of the same country from the Sea to the River....

Only moral and sane solution... and thus... will never happen!!


Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
....Israel becoming IS a true racist Apartheid state and will NEVER face strong economic & diplomatic sanctions and isolation from the entire world or any consequences whatsoever.
IFTFY
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:01 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Only moral and sane solution... and thus... will never happen!!




IFTFY
Do you think the Palestinian Arabs will accept the one-state solution? Sharing Palestine with 7 million Jews?
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:05 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Something that had flown under the radar for me:

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers



Is Israel allowing their own citizens to attack innocent Palestinians living in the West Bank and not doing anything to stop them? They are going to lose the moral high ground if they allow this.
This has been happening for years.

From 2021

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...olence-tension

More recently it has got worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-army-settlers

Israel is arming the Jewish terrorists and the IDF does nothing to prevent the terror attacks in the West Bank.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:09 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
There is a large and growing percentage of Israelis who feel that the best response to 10/7 is an increase in activity that reinforces and expands Jewish homesteads. In other words, instead of bringing about a reduction in Jewish communities across the entire land area, there will be the opposite effect.

Zionists have had that as their goal long before 1948 let alone 10/7.

It has been and will remain the STRATEGIC goal of the Zionists... and using 10/7 as an excuse is just yet another tactical RUSE out of the many chicaneries they have used before.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:49 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The IDF is willing and happy to kill dozens of Gazan civilians in order to take out one so-called "terrorist".

Is there really a difference? I'm no longer convinced.
None so blind...
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Old 7th November 2023, 03:05 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Do you think the Palestinian Arabs will accept the one-state solution? Sharing Palestine with 7 million Jews?

The Palestinian "Arabs" who do not accept it can **** off to where the brigand charlatan from Arabia's deserts emerged .

But the Palestinians who are Palestinians will accept it since Palestine is their ancestral lands for millennia before the Arabs came over and spread their desert brigand's turpitude all over the place.
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Old 7th November 2023, 03:08 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
The Palestinian "Arabs" who do not accept it can **** off to where the brigand charlatan from Arabia's deserts emerged .

But the Palestinians who are Palestinians will accept it since Palestine is their ancestral lands for millennia before the Arabs came over and spread their desert brigand's turpitude all over the place.
All the Palestinian Arabs are Arabs, as per the UN and the PLO Charter (revised 1968).

But I think some will not want to live in a bi-national state with millions of Jews as equal citizens. I think we will see this situation in 50 years, maybe less.
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Old 7th November 2023, 04:30 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Zionists have had that as their goal long before 1948 let alone 10/7.
That is true, gotta give ya that.
We're like an infestation of boll weevils or vermin.
Once we take over, ain't no gettin' rid of us.
I've even heard some folks call us a cancer.

Especially when we dare to defile the Holy places with our presence. (See: 'root causes' of AlAqsaFlood, including objections to Jews visiting the Temple Mount during Succot)

Quote:
It has been and will remain the STRATEGIC goal of the Zionists... and using 10/7 as an excuse is just yet another tactical RUSE out of the many chicaneries they have used before.
Check.
Roger Waters seems to be in that same line of thinking.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...ack-1234871588
(Interview with Glenn Greenwald, RollingStone)
"“What we do know is, whether it was a false flag operation or not, or whatever, or whatever happened, and whatever story we’re going to get to —"

In his addled brain, this is what he's got cooking.
You too, Leumas?
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Old 7th November 2023, 06:07 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
... Palestinian Arabs are Arabs...
... some will not want to live in a bi-national state with millions of Jews as equal citizens....

These ******* arabs are as racist and repugnant Settler Colonials as the Zionists... and can go **** themselves and **** off to Arabia where their camel caravan robbing desert brigand charlatan named Muhammad came from.... and leave Palestine to the Palestinians who are not Arabs.


Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
All the Palestinian Arabs are Arabs, as per the UN and the PLO Charter (revised 1968).

Your insistence on repeating this fallacious error despite the proof given to you in this post... bespeaks oodles.


Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
...and the PLO Charter (revised 1968).

So despite all the lies and perfidies of this terrorist organization you want to take their "revised charter" as scripture and facts?


Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
as per the UN ...

The UN was CREATED TWO YEARS before the fabrication of Israel... by the USA and Europe....

So you want to take as definitive the word of the American and European Zionist Christians who created all the problems for Palestine and the impetus behind its Colonization by Settler Colonials?

So you want ignorant heinous terrorists and conquering settler colonialists to conveniently define what Palestinians are... and you take their words as definitive facts?

So FACTS of HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY and REALITY given to you in this post did not convince you and you would rather take the MYTHS to distort reality and justify Settler Colonialism instead....

Do you think the Berber of Algeria and Morocco are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Romans and Canaanites of Tunisia are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Amazigh and Tuareg of Libya are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Assyrians and Greeks of Syria are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Copts and Greeks of Egypt are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Nubians of Sudan are arabs as the UN says?

All these are labeled Arabs by the UN? Do you agree with the UN and ignore Geography and History and FACTS altogether?

You won't admit the facts of reality and history and geography given in this post... but prefer deliberate lies to justify Settler Colonialisms?

What about the fact that many Palestinians are Christians and Jews and what about the Palestinian Armenians and the Palestinian Druze ?

Do you think the Arabs who conquered Palestine promptly converted to Christianity and Judaism and became "Palestinian Arabs" who are Jewish or christian?

What about the Armenians and originally Iranian Druze?

How about the fact that one of the disciples of Jesus was a Canaanite as stated in the book of Acts and in Luke?

Do any of these FACTS OF REALITY sway your faith in myth and propaganda and deliberate distortion of reality by invested and concerted instigators and proponents of the Settler Colonialist aspirations in Palestine?

Last edited by Leumas; 7th November 2023 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 7th November 2023, 06:28 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
That is true, gotta give ya that.

Thanks for admitting the truth about the RUSE called Hamas as a convenient excuse to implement the FINAL SOLUTION on the Palestinians just like the Nazis used their lies to implement their Final Solution on the European worshipers of a mythical guy's sky daddy instead of his ill begotten Zombified human sacrificed son.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
In his addled brain, this is what he's got cooking.
You too, Leumas?

Nope... you have that wrong too just like you got wrong everything else... it is yours not mine.

Last edited by Leumas; 7th November 2023 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 7th November 2023, 06:38 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
These ******* arabs are as racist and repugnant Settler Colonials as the Zionists... and can go **** themselves and **** off to Arabia where their camel caravan robbing desert brigand charlatan named Muhammad came from.... and leave Palestine to the Palestinians who are not Arabs.





Your insistence on repeating this fallacious error despite the proof given to you in this post... bespeaks oodles.





So despite all the lies and perfidies of this terrorist organization you want to take their "revised charter" as scripture and facts?





The UN was CREATED TWO YEARS before the fabrication of Israel... by the USA and Europe....

So you want to take as definitive the word of the American and European Zionist Christians who created all the problems for Palestine and the impetus behind its Colonization by Settler Colonials?

So you want ignorant heinous terrorists and conquering settler colonialists to conveniently define what Palestinians are... and you take their words as definitive facts?

So FACTS of HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY and REALITY given to you in this post did not convince you and you would rather take the MYTHS to distort reality and justify Settler Colonialism instead....

Do you think the Berber of Algeria and Morocco are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Romans and Canaanites of Tunisia are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Amazigh and Tuareg of Libya are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Assyrians and Greeks of Syria are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Copts and Greeks of Egypt are arabs as the UN says?

Do you think the Nubians of Sudan are arabs as the UN says?

All these are labeled Arabs by the UN? Do you agree with the UN and ignore Geography and History and FACTS altogether?

You won't admit the facts of reality and history and geography given in this post... but prefer deliberate lies to justify Settler Colonialisms?

What about the fact that many Palestinians are Christians and Jews and what about the Palestinian Armenians and the Palestinian Druze ?

Do you think the Arabs who conquered Palestine promptly converted to Christianity and Judaism and became "Palestinian Arabs" who are Jewish or christian?

What about the Armenians and originally Iranian Druze?

How about the fact that one of the disciples of Jesus was a Canaanite as stated in the book of Acts and in Luke?

Do any of these FACTS OF REALITY sway your faith in myth and propaganda and deliberate distortion of reality by invested and concerted instigators and proponents of the Settler Colonialist aspirations in Palestine?

And I quote, from the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization:

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp

Article 1:
Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2:
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3:
The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will.

Article 4:
The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from parents to children. The Zionist occupation and the dispersal of the Palestinian Arab people, through the disasters which befell them, do not make them lose their Palestinian identity and their membership in the Palestinian community, nor do they negate them.

Article 5:
The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.

Article 7:
That there is a Palestinian community and that it has material, spiritual, and historical connection with Palestine are indisputable facts. It is a national duty to bring up individual Palestinians in an Arab revolutionary manner. All means of information and education must be adopted in order to acquaint the Palestinian with his country in the most profound manner, both spiritual and material, that is possible. He must be prepared for the armed struggle and ready to sacrifice his wealth and his life in order to win back his homeland and bring about its liberation.

Article 8:
The phase in their history, through which the Palestinian people are now living, is that of national (watani) struggle for the liberation of Palestine. Thus the conflicts among the Palestinian national forces are secondary, and should be ended for the sake of the basic conflict that exists between the forces of Zionism and of imperialism on the one hand, and the Palestinian Arab people on the other. On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in diaspora (mahajir) constitute - both their organizations and the individuals - one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.

Article 9:
Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it . They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

Article 12:
The Palestinian people believe in Arab unity. In order to contribute their share toward the attainment of that objective, however, they must, at the present stage of their struggle, safeguard their Palestinian identity and develop their consciousness of that identity, and oppose any plan that may dissolve or impair it.

Article 13:
Arab unity and the liberation of Palestine are two complementary objectives, the attainment of either of which facilitates the attainment of the other. Thus, Arab unity leads to the liberation of Palestine, the liberation of Palestine leads to Arab unity; and work toward the realization of one objective proceeds side by side with work toward the realization of the other.

Article 14:
The destiny of the Arab nation, and indeed Arab existence itself, depend upon the destiny of the Palestine cause. From this interdependence springs the Arab nation's pursuit of, and striving for, the liberation of Palestine. The people of Palestine play the role of the vanguard in the realization of this sacred (qawmi) goal.

Article 15:
The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine. Absolute responsibility for this falls upon the Arab nation - peoples and governments - with the Arab people of Palestine in the vanguard. Accordingly, the Arab nation must mobilize all its military, human, moral, and spiritual capabilities to participate actively with the Palestinian people in the liberation of Palestine. It must, particularly in the phase of the armed Palestinian revolution, offer and furnish the Palestinian people with all possible help, and material and human support, and make available to them the means and opportunities that will enable them to continue to carry out their leading role in the armed revolution, until they liberate their homeland.

Article 17:
The liberation of Palestine, from a human point of view, will restore to the Palestinian individual his dignity, pride, and freedom. Accordingly the Palestinian Arab people look forward to the support of all those who believe in the dignity of man and his freedom in the world.

Article 21:
The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization.

Article 26:
The Palestine Liberation Organization, representative of the Palestinian revolutionary forces, is responsible for the Palestinian Arab people's movement in its struggle - to retrieve its homeland, liberate and return to it and exercise the right to self-determination in it - in all military, political, and financial fields and also for whatever may be required by the Palestine case on the inter-Arab and international levels.

Article 28:
The Palestinian Arab people assert the genuineness and independence of their national (wataniyya) revolution and reject all forms of intervention, trusteeship, and subordination.


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Old 7th November 2023, 07:11 PM   #153
Leumas
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
And I quote, from the 1968 Charter of the Palestine Liberation Organization:

And that quote is meaningless codswallop written by idiots and terrorists.

You would prefer to take the poppycock written by raving hideous terrorists instead of REALITY and HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY and ... did I say REALITY already??

You are denying anthropology and sociology and linguistics and archaeology and history and economics and REALITY altogether and prefer to believe the perfidious lies of terroristic morons.


Last edited by Leumas; 7th November 2023 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:20 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see no reason for a cease fire until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

At the same time however, Israel ought to get its own terrorists into prison. Hard to see that happening when extremist settler activists with a history of encouraging terrorism and honoring murderers have high positions in the government.
What does a Hamas utterly destroyed look like?

Not trying to gotcha.

Just wondering how you, and I guess Israel are going to know when they should stop.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:43 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see no reason for a cease fire until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

At the same time however, Israel ought to get its own terrorists into prison. Hard to see that happening when extremist settler activists with a history of encouraging terrorism and honoring murderers have high positions in the government.
Good luck getting the whole of the Israeli political, military and spy leadership to surrender their freedom.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:50 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
What does a Hamas utterly destroyed look like?

Not trying to gotcha.

Just wondering how you, and I guess Israel are going to know when they should stop.
Basically once they've occupied Gaza, accounted for all of the hostages, located and removed caches of weapons, and no longer encounter armed resistance.

From a military standpoint, it's going to be not unlike the battle of Okinawa in World War 2.
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Old 7th November 2023, 11:55 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Basically once they've occupied Gaza, accounted for all of the hostages, located and removed caches of weapons, and no longer encounter armed resistance.

From a military standpoint, it's going to be not unlike the battle of Okinawa in World War 2.
Thanks for your reply.

I haven't heard much, if anything, about any armed resistance recently.
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Old 8th November 2023, 12:00 AM   #158
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given the rubble, and collapsed tunnels, accounting for all the hostages will be impossible.
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Old 8th November 2023, 12:07 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Thanks for your reply.

I haven't heard much, if anything, about any armed resistance recently.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11...hamas-war-gaza
Quote:
“Ground operations by the Israel Defense Forces and continued bombardment are hitting civilians, hospitals, refugee camps, mosques, churches and U.N. facilities, including shelters,” the U.N. secretary general, António Guterres, said at a news conference in New York on Tuesday. “No one is safe. At the same time, Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields and continue to launch rockets indiscriminately towards Israel.”
According to the most recent information there are still rockets being launched toward Israel. I don't know how much armed resistance the soldiers on the ground are encountering. If they want a "pause" they could start by stopping firing rockets but I don't think it makes military sense to pause the offensive and allow defenders to regroup.
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Old 8th November 2023, 12:09 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Basically once they've occupied Gaza, accounted for all of the hostages, located and removed caches of weapons, and no longer encounter armed resistance....

Just so that I am clear... what would all those Zionist terrorists in Israel do if the Palestinians all declared their conversion to Judaism?

Would they accept that and give them Aliyah rights just like say they gave the Africans or Indians?
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