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Tags biden , classified documents

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Old 12th February 2024, 06:45 PM   #161
Ranb
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nonsense. POTUS and VPOTUS are not like you're average Joe. They have staffs that do a lot of their grunt work. They don't personally pack up their offices etc. That classified documents were put into storage doesn't mean they were responsible for it.
Staff's fault or not, I think Biden knew he had some of those documents in his home. https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/09/polit...ion/index.html

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There is a huge difference between what Trump did and what Pence and Biden did.
I agree.

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There is no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the necessary mens rea that would be required to make possession of the documents a crime.
If they knew they had classified material they were not allowed to possess, then this should be the required mens rea.
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Old 12th February 2024, 06:57 PM   #162
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Prove it, show me a link to the tread.
https://www.internationalskeptics.co...d.php?t=366542

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I express my displeasure with Trump so often on this forum I sound like a broken record. There is nothing wrong with addressing a single person in a thread. You might have noticed that I did not claim Biden was the only one being caught with classified material in an unsecured location at their home.
Itís not about how often you criticize Trump. Itís about the contexts in which you hold Biden and Trump to different standards of criticism.

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It means I also bash Biden, like I bash other politicians
When you bash other politicians do you pretend itís about a principle that you inconsistently defend and do you dishonestly conflate their behavior with far worse behavior? Or is that something you reserve just for Biden?
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Old 12th February 2024, 07:19 PM   #163
Ranb
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Thank you. While I did not post in that thread, I did start a thread devoted to Trump's mishandling of classified documents. https://www.internationalskeptics.co...d.php?t=366347

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It’s not about how often you criticize Trump. It’s about the contexts in which you hold Biden and Trump to different standards of criticism.
I made it clear I want them both held responsible for mishandling of classified material.

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When you bash other politicians do you pretend it’s about a principle that you inconsistently defend and do you dishonestly conflate their behavior with far worse behavior? Or is that something you reserve just for Biden?
I'm not pretending, they all need to comply with the law.
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Old 12th February 2024, 10:14 PM   #164
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Thank you. While I did not post in that thread, I did start a thread devoted to Trump's mishandling of classified documents. https://www.internationalskeptics.co...d.php?t=366347
Itís a single post that is a fairly anodyne and mostly informational. Thereís nothing approaching the scathing nature of your posts about Biden in this thread. Iím not sure why you think this helps your case.

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I made it clear I want them both held responsible for mishandling of classified material.
In this thread now, maybe. But not last June in the thread you linked, when it was about Trump.

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I'm not pretending, they all need to comply with the law.
I have good news for you. Turns out Biden did comply with the law. Thatís why he wasnít charged with a crime. Pence too. The only one who is in pretty clear violation of the law is Trump. But for someone reason, you spare him your wrath regarding this issue and direct it at Biden, who again, was exonerated.

Again, bash Biden all you want, but donít act surprised when you get called out for an easily demonstrable double standard.
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Old 13th February 2024, 07:53 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I have good news for you. Turns out Biden did comply with the law. That’s why he wasn’t charged with a crime. Pence too. The only one who is in pretty clear violation of the law is Trump. But for someone reason, you spare him your wrath regarding this issue and direct it at Biden, who again, was exonerated.

Again, bash Biden all you want, but don’t act surprised when you get called out for an easily demonstrable double standard.
Nothing about taking classified material away from it approved storage location and keeping it unsecured in your home is complying with the law. https://law.justia.com/codes/us/2021...r-93/sec-1924/

Last edited by Ranb; 13th February 2024 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 13th February 2024, 08:01 AM   #166
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Listened to advisory opinions on this and they basically think the choices made by the special prosecutor are pretty standard.

I few points.
1. It appears that Biden took the documents home when he was VP, which was legal because he was VP. He kept them afterward, which wasn't legal but only if he did it on purpose. That's obviously hard to prove. The only evidence that he knew that he had them after leaving office is the one statement on a recording with his ghost writer.
2. The DOJs guidelines are basically, only prosecute when you know there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt and they think they can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. So, also pretty hard in any case.
3. The second bit is why there was the stuff about his memory. Still not clear to me if it was necessary but the AO folks think it was typical to explain why hey aren't prosecuting.

2 clearly doesn't apply to trumps case as only partisans don't see that he not only did it on purpose but it was after he left office and he deliberately obstructed the feds from getting it back.

@Karate, no Biden didn't comply with the law, except that he didn't break the law on purpose, possibly. Or he did do it on purpose but it can really be proven because he has bad memory.

Last edited by ahhell; 13th February 2024 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 13th February 2024, 01:48 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
... 3. The second bit is why there was the stuff about his memory. Still not clear to me if it was necessary but the AO folks think it was typical to explain why hey aren't prosecuting. ...

@Karate, no Biden didn't comply with the law, except that he didn't break the law on purpose, possibly. Or he did do it on purpose but it can really be proven because he has bad memory.
One only need look at the fact the same language was not in the Pence report.


In June 2023, the Department of Justice notified Pence that its investigation had ended and that the Department of Justice had decided not to charge him.
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... However, CBS News reported that one of Pence's aides said the documents were found inside storage boxes located within an insecure area of Pence's home.
And there were lots of past POTUSes and VPs who also had classified documents and no such reports mentioned old, forgetful men as the defense.

Classified records pose conundrum stretching back to Carter


This is Garland's fault IMO.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 13th February 2024 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 14th February 2024, 05:37 PM   #168
thaiboxerken
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Will Democrat AG's ever learn that appointing Republican special councels is a bad idea? I mean, Comey, Starr and now Hur...
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 15th February 2024, 06:16 AM   #169
Craig4
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Will Democrat AG's ever learn that appointing Republican special councels is a bad idea? I mean, Comey, Starr and now Hur...
There are probably plenty of Republican prosecutors who could have kept to their duty. The problem is that the AG hired a domestic enemy of the country and the Constitution. The special counsel's associations to Trump (the domestic enemy of the United States) aren't hard to find.
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Ashley Babbit was a good start.
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Old 15th February 2024, 09:14 AM   #170
ahhell
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
One only need look at the fact the same language was not in the Pence report.


In June 2023, the Department of Justice notified Pence that its investigation had ended and that the Department of Justice had decided not to charge him.


And there were lots of past POTUSes and VPs who also had classified documents and no such reports mentioned old, forgetful men as the defense.

Classified records pose conundrum stretching back to Carter


This is Garland's fault IMO.
Could be that pence wasn't as forgetful.
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Old 21st February 2024, 06:38 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Could be that pence wasn't as forgetful.
Or that Hur, unable to find any reason to charge Biden, found the next best thing to help the GOP.
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