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Old 23rd February 2024, 01:30 PM   #241
Andy_Ross
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Russia lost another A-50 early warning/radar airplane. (Crew of about 15 + pilots) That's two in the past two months. Russia claims them to be friendly fire - which really just means that this hurts. Russia never gives credit to Ukraine for the really big hits, like the Moscow (that was a smoking accident ).
A bigger blow is the loss of a trained and experienced aircrew to operate them
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Old 23rd February 2024, 01:39 PM   #242
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Does Russia think that it's less shameful to lose it to friendly fire rather than be shot down by Ukrainian forces?
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Old 23rd February 2024, 03:45 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
Does Russia think that it's less shameful to lose it to friendly fire rather than be shot down by Ukrainian forces?
Absolutely.
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Old 24th February 2024, 05:23 AM   #244
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From the clip I've seen it does look like friendly fire this time - one missile hit a flare and another from a different angle hit the aircraft - I believe only the shorter range missiles use IR?
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Old 24th February 2024, 06:23 AM   #245
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It doesn't look friendly to me...

https://twitter.com/MuscalR/status/1761091418620064220

You don't fire off flares unless you know you're being chased.
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Old 24th February 2024, 07:03 AM   #246
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Different angle shows a Russian SAM launch

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/sta...66106113253571

Could be that the Russians were trying to shoot down a Ukrainian SAM
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Old 24th February 2024, 07:46 AM   #247
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What's Ironic is, if it was friendly fire, the aircraft was supposed to be coordinating things.
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Old 24th February 2024, 09:00 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
What's Ironic is, if it was friendly fire, the aircraft was supposed to be coordinating things.
It was able to save others from death, but not itself.
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Old 24th February 2024, 09:22 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
What's Ironic is, if it was friendly fire, the aircraft was supposed to be coordinating things.
Don't shoot the Messenger!
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Old 24th February 2024, 09:37 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
From the clip I've seen it does look like friendly fire this time - one missile hit a flare and another from a different angle hit the aircraft - I believe only the shorter range missiles use IR?
Portable shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles typically use IR. These are normally deployed on the frontline, where they can protect maneuver units from helicopter gunships and low-flying attack aircraft. It would be suuuper unlikely that a Russian soldier, far behind the frontline, un-assed an IR missile launcher and fired it at one of their own AWACS.

Whatever hit the flare is probably a coincidence, or misreading of the footage.

Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
It doesn't look friendly to me...

https://twitter.com/MuscalR/status/1761091418620064220

You don't fire off flares unless you know you're being chased.
Yeah, but it's not like Zelensky called up the cockpit and said "on your left, bitches!" in that sexy gravelly voice of his. The way they know they're being chased is their Radar Warning Receiver detects an air defense radar tracking them, and sounds an alarm. At which point they radio the air defense center and try to figure out what's going on, sure. But first they do a Crazy Ivan and hope it saves their ass.

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross View Post
What's Ironic is, if it was friendly fire, the aircraft was supposed to be coordinating things.
Fun fact: That's true of western AWACS, where everything is miniaturized to fit on one plane. Russian AWACS requires three planes for the same job: One airborne radar, one command and control, and one electronic warfare escort. This one probably got hit because it was thought safe to fly this far behind the front line without an EW plane to keep missiles off its back.
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Old 24th February 2024, 10:01 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Whatever hit the flare is probably a coincidence, or misreading of the footage.
Probably misreading.

Quote:
Yeah, but it's not like Zelensky called up the cockpit and said "on your left, bitches!" in that sexy gravelly voice of his. The way they know they're being chased is their Radar Warning Receiver detects an air defense radar tracking them, and sounds an alarm. At which point they radio the air defense center and try to figure out what's going on, sure. But first they do a Crazy Ivan and hope it saves their ass.
Flares donít really protect against radar tracking missiles. In a panic you might release them anyway, but they would do no good. They arenít foolproof for modern IR tracking either.
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Old Yesterday, 08:37 AM   #252
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The Ukrainians appear to be claiming they got it with an S-200, which has the required range but otherwise seems like a bit of a museum piece rather than something to be able to surprise Russia's top line AWACS plane. Maybe the seeker's newer and smarter than the rest of it.
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Old Yesterday, 09:30 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
The Ukrainians appear to be claiming they got it with an S-200, which has the required range but otherwise seems like a bit of a museum piece rather than something to be able to surprise Russia's top line AWACS plane. Maybe the seeker's newer and smarter than the rest of it.
Some of the tankies are claiming that Ukraine fired an S-200, but that Russian efforts to shoot down the S-200 resulted in friendly fire on the A-50.

But then again, these are the same people who still claim that the Moscow was lost due to careless cigarette smoking.
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Old Yesterday, 10:40 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Some of the tankies are claiming that Ukraine fired an S-200, but that Russian efforts to shoot down the S-200 resulted in friendly fire on the A-50.
Counterpoints: Radar waves don't become obsolete. The Ukrainians have demonstrated that Soviet equipment, if properly maintained and operated, is still capable on the modern battlefield. The S-200 was originally designed for exactly this kind of work - long-range, high-altitude interception of non-stealthy bombers. What makes it obsolete is the introduction of new technologies and doctrines to defeat it. Which Moscow clearly wasn't using in support of this AWACS mission.
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