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Old 20th February 2024, 01:50 PM   #121
The Great Zaganza
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Some would say that Bush continued to be CIA after becoming President.
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Old 20th February 2024, 02:04 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think you overestimate the US electorate's ability to see through the GOP's (and right wing media's) attempts to portray Biden as a bumbling, addled old fool. I know it's a tiny, anecdotal, group but Mrs Don's family Zoom call have swallowed this hook, line and sinker. Most of them are lifelong Democrat voters but they are very unimpressed with Biden as a candidate and are considering not voting in the upcoming Presidential election as a result. To be honest, it won't make a difference in their cases, they live in states which are safely one way or another and so they don't represent a swing vote.

Even supposedly left-leaning media outlets are focusing on Biden's alleged gaffes. True that they're portraying him as a harmless old grandpa making harmless old grandpa mistakes but it's still dripping poison and it's still portraying him as someone not ideal for leading the world's only superpower.

As a wider issue, IMO Democrats turn out in force when there's a good reason for them to do so. In the case of Bill Clinton and Obama, it was because the candidate was a bona fide charismatic rock star (contrast Gore, Dukakis and even Hillary Clinton once she'd been focus grouped to death). In 2020 it was because of President Trump. I think the heat has gone out of the anti-Trump message because enough people have become complacent and there's no way that Biden is able to inspire a large number of people to cast a positive vote in his favour.

Joe Biden is a very competent, honourable, decent President but he has a major public image challenge and he faces an opponent with a large and zealous base.
This is contributory to the eventual collapse of America into a kleptocratic, oligarchic, Christo-Fascist hell. The sizzle trumps the steak. (Pun not intended, but apropos.) Titillating scumbaggery over quiet competence.

In a sane world, only 10% of a citizenry would be lured by a Drumpf, and the rest would vote instead for a rotten turnip. That this race is too near 50:50 is a wicked indictment of a national insanity. To wit. Any populace unable to adopt sane measures to curtail the slaughter of its children by gunfire is quite incapable of resisting the onslaught of Fascism.
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Old 20th February 2024, 09:24 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Where do you get this crap? Biden has proven to be very honest. Prickly? Hardly. If anything Biden is extremely likable. Probably not prickly enough. I wish he was a lot more combative.
Quote:
"I went to law school on a full academic scholarship, the only one in my class who had a full academic scholarship," Biden said. "The first year in law school, I decided I didn’t want to be in law school and ended up in the bottom two-thirds of my class. And then decided I wanted to stay, went back to law school and, in fact, ended up in the top half of my class."

Biden also claimed he "graduated with three degrees from undergraduate school."
As you can probably guess, Biden did not go to law school on a full academic scholarship (he got a partial scholarship based on need, not on academics), did not graduate with three degrees from undergraduate school, and finished 76th out of 87 students in his law school, which is not even close to being in the top half. If you watch the video at the link he makes a few other claims that are unlikely to be true (like that he won the international moot court competition), and he certainly comes off as a little prickly (in fact, you can leave off the ly suffix) in that video.

Granted, Trump lies so often that it is news when he tells the truth. But Biden's no George Washington.

I do love that PolitiFact ends up dinging the ad the video comes from because "We found no reports that Biden repeated the claims after 1987." You mean after he got caught?
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Old 20th February 2024, 09:39 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
As you can probably guess, Biden did not go to law school on a full academic scholarship (he got a partial scholarship based on need, not on academics), did not graduate with three degrees from undergraduate school, and finished 76th out of 87 students in his law school, which is not even close to being in the top half. If you watch the video at the link he makes a few other claims that are unlikely to be true (like that he won the international moot court competition), and he certainly comes off as a little prickly (in fact, you can leave off the ly suffix) in that video.

Granted, Trump lies so often that it is news when he tells the truth. But Biden's no George Washington.

I do love that PolitiFact ends up dinging the ad the video comes from because "We found no reports that Biden repeated the claims after 1987." You mean after he got caught?
As opposed to Trump, who repeats the same lies, day after day, even after he has been caught repeated times on video and his own socials. Biden may have been a bit bumbly around the edges with the truth, sure. But Trump has never met the word except on the masthead of his website.
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Old 20th February 2024, 10:20 PM   #125
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What I love about this thread is exactly what I expected: rational, objective, unbiased commentary.

lol

None of this changes the fact that IMO the upcoming election will be a choice between two candidates who suck for a wide variety of reasons...which I seem to say every 4 years...and it's not hard to understand, really. What truly qualified person who you'd actually WANT to be president in their right mind would want the job?
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Old 20th February 2024, 11:20 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
the upcoming election will be a choice between two candidates who suck for a wide variety of reasons...which I seem to say every 4 years...
In 2016, the Republican Party nominated Joffrey Baratheon, and the DP saw to it that the only way to vote against him was to vote for Petyr Baelish. In 2020, the RP stuck with Joffrey again, and the DP saw to it that the only way to vote against him was to vote for Pycelle. 2024 is a repeat of 2020 except that Pycelle has only gotten even pycellier and some of the Democrats have started pretending that he's Tyrion Lannister.

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Old 21st February 2024, 12:00 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
In 2016, the Republican Party nominated Joffrey Baratheon, and the DP saw to it that the only way to vote against him was to vote for Petyr Baelish. In 2020, the RP stuck with Joffrey again, and the DP saw to it that the only way to vote against him was to vote for Pycelle. 2024 is a repeat of 2020 except that Pycelle has only gotten even pycellier and some of the Democrats have started pretending that he's Tyrion Lannister.
Yes, but you can’t expect that a lady on a dragon is going to turn up and if she did she might burn down the whole kingdom. So, you know, if you’re just going to make up fictional analogies then you’re not likely to get serious discussion.
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Old 21st February 2024, 12:01 AM   #128
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Old 21st February 2024, 12:03 AM   #129
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I don't think either Biden or Trump are senile in a way that matters: they won't be in a position like Reagan in "Land of Confusion" where they accidentally press the Launch button.

The problem is that neither one seems to be willing to actually do something for their base:
Biden doesn't because he wants his image as The Moderate who got along with everyone,
and Trump never wanted to do anything for anyone but himself.
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Old 21st February 2024, 10:49 AM   #130
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The polls don't seem to reflect elections well. Other than the factvthat they do, if you only count popular vote.

But I came to think of a new factor: what if the fact that a person chooses to answer to a poll only records the angriest voters? The rather neutral voters can still shift till election.
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Old 21st February 2024, 01:02 PM   #131
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I will vote for the senile old fool Biden and watch him trip and break his hip on this way to the inauguration and smile with satisfaction.

I'm trying to avoid a rightwing takeover of every facet of the executive branch.
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Old 21st February 2024, 01:54 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I don't think either Biden or Trump are senile in a way that matters: they won't be in a position like Reagan in "Land of Confusion" where they accidentally press the Launch button.

The problem is that neither one seems to be willing to actually do something for their base:
Biden doesn't because he wants his image as The Moderate who got along with everyone,
and Trump never wanted to do anything for anyone but himself.
This is absolutely NOT TRUE.

I can probably list a hundred things Biden has done for his base. And It would still be less than he's done. You're ignoring the inflation reduction act. The investment in infrastructure. You're ignoring the debt forgiveness. You're ignoring the environment. You're also ignoring the legislation he's proposed that hasn't been able to get passed because of Senators like Manchin and Sinema not to mention the Republican party.

Is it everything the base wants and has been demanding? No, but the last Democratic President that has done more for the base was LBJ.

You really need to do your homework and quit repeating this kind of nonsense.
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Old 21st February 2024, 03:36 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is absolutely NOT TRUE.

I can probably list a hundred things Biden has done for his base. And It would still be less than he's done. You're ignoring the inflation reduction act. The investment in infrastructure. You're ignoring the debt forgiveness. You're ignoring the environment. You're also ignoring the legislation he's proposed that hasn't been able to get passed because of Senators like Manchin and Sinema not to mention the Republican party.

Is it everything the base wants and has been demanding? No, but the last Democratic President that has done more for the base was LBJ.

You really need to do your homework and quit repeating this kind of nonsense.
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Old 21st February 2024, 03:46 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
What I love about this thread is exactly what I expected: rational, objective, unbiased commentary.

lol

None of this changes the fact that IMO the upcoming election will be a choice between two candidates who suck for a wide variety of reasons...which I seem to say every 4 years...and it's not hard to understand, really. What truly qualified person who you'd actually WANT to be president in their right mind would want the job?
ftfy

If you think these two candidates are equivalent I'd say your opinion needs a tuneup, and maybe clean your reading glasses if you use them.
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Old 21st February 2024, 03:47 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
The polls don't seem to reflect elections well. Other than the factvthat they do, if you only count popular vote.

But I came to think of a new factor: what if the fact that a person chooses to answer to a poll only records the angriest voters? The rather neutral voters can still shift till election.
It seems likely that in 2020 at least, voters were reluctant to reveal their support for Trump to pollsters. The polling aggregators had Biden winning by about 8 percentage points while his actual win was only by about 4.4 percentage points. Most of that came from Trump showing unexpected strength; the pollsters had him at about 43.5% when he actually got 46.8%.
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Old 21st February 2024, 03:48 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I don't think either Biden or Trump are senile in a way that matters: ...

The problem is that neither one seems to be willing to actually do something for their base:
Biden doesn't because he wants his image as The Moderate who got along with everyone ....
Where do you get this crap about Biden from?

Have you looked at his accomplishments? You should.

And Bernie Bros are not his base if that's what you think.

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Old 21st February 2024, 03:52 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This is absolutely NOT TRUE.

I can probably list a hundred things Biden has done for his base. And It would still be less than he's done. You're ignoring the inflation reduction act. The investment in infrastructure. You're ignoring the debt forgiveness. You're ignoring the environment. You're also ignoring the legislation he's proposed that hasn't been able to get passed because of Senators like Manchin and Sinema not to mention the Republican party.

Is it everything the base wants and has been demanding? No, but the last Democratic President that has done more for the base was LBJ.

You really need to do your homework and quit repeating this kind of nonsense.
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Old 21st February 2024, 07:10 PM   #138
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I'm going to dismiss Nikki Haley. She is too flaky and shows no centrist views. So whatever happens to Trump she will not win against Biden.

Also, they are stuck with Trump. It is possible that MAGA turnout will help GOP rank and file in their elections. By Jan 2025 Trump will quickly become nothing. He will have little input past that.
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Old 21st February 2024, 09:25 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where do you get this crap about Biden from?

Have you looked at his accomplishments? You should.

And Bernie Bros are not his base if that's what you think.
SOmeone far enough to the left to pleas the more militant progressives in the Democratic Party would get slaughtered in November. A fact they will never admie, since buy into the lost tribe school fo politics.


ANyway, things chage from week to week; Biden is ahead in the polls after Trump had a bad week.
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Old 21st February 2024, 09:31 PM   #140
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Biden thinks he can pull a magic rabbit out of the hat when it comes to Gaza, and present a Peace and Solution before November.
Because of that, he does really bad things like vetoing a ceasefire.

But that is fantasy, as Netanjahu has never left out and opportunity to sabotage Biden.
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Old 21st February 2024, 10:37 PM   #141
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some no-brainer things that Biden should have done right after taking Office and hasn't, supposedly not to offend Republican sensibilities:
- kick out deJoy from Postmaster General
- get some sane people on the FEC
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Old 23rd February 2024, 07:25 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
every heard of Unions?
Student loans?

Biden has not done enough, and needs to do better.
You're kidding, right?

Biden has done more on these issues than any two presidents together.
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Old 23rd February 2024, 09:46 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
You're kidding, right?

Biden has done more on these issues than any two presidents together.
But way less than he promised, or what was needed.
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Old 23rd February 2024, 10:00 PM   #144
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Haley is done, everybody knows that.

There is so much more to go in the next eight months.
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Old 24th February 2024, 02:23 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
But way less than he promised, or what was needed.
Making perfect the enemy of the good.
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Old 24th February 2024, 02:29 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by PitPat View Post
Haley is done, everybody knows that.

There is so much more to go in the next eight months.
I think she'll hang on until the hoped for inevitable irrecoverable crash that Trump has coming his way, in which case, she'll be the only chance the Republicans have left.
Not an unreasonable plan.
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Old 24th February 2024, 03:11 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I think she'll hang on until the hoped for inevitable irrecoverable crash that Trump has coming his way, in which case, she'll be the only chance the Republicans have left.
Not an unreasonable plan.
Wasn't that the entire Republican field's plan?

Still, as the only one now remaining, she may have the last laugh.
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Old 24th February 2024, 03:13 PM   #148
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It would take a couple of sad...so sad... events, but we could have Nikki vs Kamala. Certainly would sell a lot more "newspapers."
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Old 24th February 2024, 05:18 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Making perfect the enemy of the good.
Nonsense. Not describing one thing as if it were another thing is not making one of them the other's enemy. And you already know it... at least in just about any other context but this one, where we keep being told over & over again that we have some kind of duty to pretend that one thing is another.

Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I think she'll hang on until the hoped for inevitable irrecoverable crash that Trump has coming his way, in which case, she'll be the only chance the Republicans have left.
Not an unreasonable plan.
Then why put out arguments against him?
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Old 24th February 2024, 08:51 PM   #150
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I see that South Carolina is projecting The FPDJT at 60% and Nikki Haley at 40%. How stupid do people have to be to vote for Trump? It makes me embarrassed to be a human.
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Old Yesterday, 01:30 AM   #151
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As I ranted about in another thread: we should always be dumping on however is currently in power, just because they are; it's the only way to remind them that they should strive to do better and cannot take your support for granted - all Problems Trump can be boiled down to is his supporters refusing to give him any pushback.

In a two party system, you vote for the lesser evil while at the same time working to make the lesser evil a bit better.
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Old Yesterday, 07:01 AM   #152
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South Carolina voters smartly selected Trump to kick out foreigners that are INVADING our country. Direactly from mental institutions and....China! In any case they can't pick Nikki Haley for this job, because she is a foreigner!

But kidding aside, found this:
Quote:
As of my last update, there have been three U.S. Presidents who were first-generation Americans: Andrew Jackson, whose parents were immigrants from Ireland, James Buchanan, whose parents were immigrants from Ireland, and Donald Trump, whose mother was an immigrant from Scotland.
There may be more in the early years.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Nonsense. Not describing one thing as if it were another thing is not making one of them the other's enemy. And you already know it... at least in just about any other context but this one, where we keep being told over & over again that we have some kind of duty to pretend that one thing is another.
The context is TGZ criticized Biden because he didn't get done everything he promised and that he hasn't done enough. That is exactly the definition of making perfect the enemy of the good in light of the fact Biden has done many great things the nation needed.
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Old Yesterday, 11:59 PM   #154
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
The context is TGZ criticized Biden because he didn't get done everything he promised and that he hasn't done enough. That is exactly the definition of making perfect the enemy of the good in light of the fact Biden has done many great things the nation needed.
No it's not.

I'm not going to support Trump because Biden didn't give me everything I wanted.

But in a Democracy, the important thing is to constantly demand that the one you elected does better.

But I guess most people realize that if Biden wins it will be because his opponent was Trump, not because he is doing such a great job.
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Old Today, 02:02 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
It would take a couple of sad...so sad... events, but we could have Nikki vs Kamala. Certainly would sell a lot more "newspapers."
Only one of those events would be sad.
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