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Old 11th February 2024, 04:31 PM   #41
LondonJohn
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Even the NYT is now calling on Biden to step aside.

Of course one unpleasant possibility is that if it does end up being Biden vs Trump, Biden's clear cognitive decline (and his seeming inability these days to campaign/canvass, probably on advice) might help hand the presidency to Trump.

Personally I despise Trump (and I can't believe the GOP is effectively letting him coast to the nomination), but I believe Biden on the DEM ticket is now becoming a serious impediment to a Democratic pres victory in November. I think Biden should stand aside, possibly to allow Michelle Obama to get the nomination. I think Michelle Obama vs Trump would be a far closer contest that Obama would likely win.
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Old 11th February 2024, 04:35 PM   #42
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PS as an interesting aside, which some/many might already know:

If the 2024 Presidential Election does end up being Biden vs Trump, both candidates will have been born before Bill Clinton....
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Old 11th February 2024, 04:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Even the NYT is now calling on Biden to step aside.

Of course one unpleasant possibility is that if it does end up being Biden vs Trump, Biden's clear cognitive decline (and his seeming inability these days to campaign/canvass, probably on advice) might help hand the presidency to Trump.

Personally I despise Trump (and I can't believe the GOP is effectively letting him coast to the nomination), but I believe Biden on the DEM ticket is now becoming a serious impediment to a Democratic pres victory in November. I think Biden should stand aside, possibly to allow Michelle Obama to get the nomination. I think Michelle Obama vs Trump would be a far closer contest that Obama would likely win.
There is absolutely no case where I would support the "former president's wife" ticket. I don't even get the appeal -- it's stupid. Also, there is no way that she would ever run, anyway. She isn't Hillary Reborn.

I'm perfectly okay with a female president, but she has to get there on her own creds, not her husband's. Anything else is a bit sexist (or at the very least, openly invites sexism from detractors to such a degree that they're not even wrong).

Also, Hillary held relevant political positions prior to running for president. Michelle doesn't have that. We don't have a record of her performance while performing the duties of a government official of any sort. First Lady doesn't count -- it's not a paid position, and involves no specific responsibilities.

Last edited by Manopolus; 11th February 2024 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 11th February 2024, 04:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Manopolus View Post
There is absolutely no case where I would support the "former president's wife" ticket. I don't even get the appeal -- it's stupid. Also, there is no way that she would ever run, anyway. She isn't Hillary Reborn.

I'm perfectly okay with a female president, but she has to get there on her own creds, not her husband's. Anything else is a bit sexist (or at the very least, openly invites sexism from detractors to such a degree that they're not even wrong).

And even with the Hillary comparison, Hillary actually had several relevant political positions of her own prior to running for president. Michelle doesn't even have that.

But supposing Biden stood aside (and as I said, I think he should, for the sake of the party and its electoral prospects up against Trump), then who would you suggest as the Democrat nominee? Bearing in mind that Barack Obama himself was only a one-term Senator when he successfully stood for President in 2008, I don't believe that Michelle Obama's lack of elected political experience is necessarily an impediment. She's charismatic and clearly very able, and I personally think she'd make a fine C-in-C.

But if not her, then whom would you suggest?


ETA: I don't think Dean Phillips is a credible alternative....

Last edited by LondonJohn; 11th February 2024 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:02 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
But supposing Biden stood aside (and as I said, I think he should, for the sake of the party and its electoral prospects up against Trump), then who would you suggest as the Democrat nominee? Bearing in mind that Barack Obama himself was only a one-term Senator when he successfully stood for President in 2008, I don't believe that Michelle Obama's lack of elected political experience is necessarily an impediment. She's charismatic and clearly very able, and I personally think she'd make a fine C-in-C.

But if not her, then whom would you suggest?
It would likely automatically be the current Vice President. I'm not greatly impressed with her, either, but that would make actual sense. Michelle Obama makes no sense whatsoever. She has said multiple times that she's not remotely interested in the job, if nothing else.

But there are also plenty of others we could call on before resorting to someone with no -paid- (aka professional) political experience. Even AOC will be 35 just prior to the election (her birthday is in October), making her eligible. We have plenty of credible options. You may not have heard of some of them yet, but we do.

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Old 11th February 2024, 05:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Manopolus View Post
It would likely automatically be the current Vice President. I'm not greatly impressed with her, either, but that would make actual sense. Michelle Obama makes no sense whatsoever. She has said multiple times that she's not remotely interesting in the job.

I realise that this is what precedent and the "cab rank" system would suggest, but I suspect most Capitol Hill insiders (not to mention most Dem supporters) understand her significant deficiencies and her serial failure when placed in the spotlight.

If....IF.... Biden can be persuaded to step aside, I think the Democrat Party needs to think laterally and think fast. One problem with this scenario is that it may very well already be too late to ditch Biden. The machine should have started operating well before where we are now: a mere 9 months before the election.
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I realise that this is what precedent and the "cab rank" system would suggest, but I suspect most Capitol Hill insiders (not to mention most Dem supporters) understand her significant deficiencies and her serial failure when placed in the spotlight.

If....IF.... Biden can be persuaded to step aside, I think the Democrat Party needs to think laterally and think fast. One problem with this scenario is that it may very well already be too late to ditch Biden. The machine should have started operating well before where we are now: a mere 9 months before the election.
Well, technically it doesn't even require him to step aside. He could actually just die or become incapacitated by a sudden health issue, you know (not that I want that to happen, but it could). AOC would actually be my first choice, but I doubt it'd happen. It would be a good way to bring out the youth vote, though. And we definitely need those votes in particular. The youth vote was actually what got Obama elected in the first place. Admittedly, those particular youth are a bit older now, but... still an important factor for Dems. Always has been, as long as I can remember.

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Old 11th February 2024, 05:37 PM   #48
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Just as I was confident that our system of government could survive a Trump presidency, I'm confident it can survive an AOC presidency. Which would be a sight to see, and I'm actually somewhat in favor of it.
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Even the NYT is now calling on Biden to step aside.

Of course one unpleasant possibility is that if it does end up being Biden vs Trump, Biden's clear cognitive decline (and his seeming inability these days to campaign/canvass, probably on advice) might help hand the presidency to Trump.

Personally I despise Trump (and I can't believe the GOP is effectively letting him coast to the nomination), but I believe Biden on the DEM ticket is now becoming a serious impediment to a Democratic pres victory in November. I think Biden should stand aside, possibly to allow Michelle Obama to get the nomination. I think Michelle Obama vs Trump would be a far closer contest that Obama would likely win.
A link to the NYT piece, perhaps? Is it an editorial. Y the NYT or is it one of their op-ed writers who doesn’t speak for the NYT?
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I realise that this is what precedent and the "cab rank" system would suggest, but I suspect most Capitol Hill insiders (not to mention most Dem supporters) understand her significant deficiencies and her serial failure when placed in the spotlight.

If....IF.... Biden can be persuaded to step aside, I think the Democrat Party needs to think laterally and think fast. One problem with this scenario is that it may very well already be too late to ditch Biden. The machine should have started operating well before where we are now: a mere 9 months before the election.
I like the opposite idea, let the Republicans campaign on 'He's senile' for 9 months and then announce a younger candidate, while immediately running with the 'He's senile' campaign against Trump.

"The republicans have been telling you that x is too old to be president..."
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:51 PM   #51
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The Mandela effect is not the same thing as dementia.
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:53 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
You are a perfect example of the radicalized partisan poison that is ruining our politics.
I bet you had that response typed out ready for the first person to disagree with you.

Incidentally, you are reading the answers wrong. Nobody is saying (or at least, admitting) that they prefer a Democrat to a Republican. They are saying that it would be better for a chimpanzee to be POTUS and not Trump.
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Old 11th February 2024, 05:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I like the opposite idea, let the Republicans campaign on 'He's senile' for 9 months and then announce a younger candidate, while immediately running with the 'He's senile' campaign against Trump.

"The republicans have been telling you that x is too old to be president..."
Misanthropic nonsense.
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:34 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Man, hmmmmm, a semi forgetful older guy with a stutter, or a semi forgetful, untruthful, nearly as old guy with a documented history of rape, theft, intimidation, slander, and at least a half dozen other crimes including treason and sedition, plus open declarations of dictatorship were they to regain power.
Honestly, I'm torn.
It's hilarious to read thru all the push back against Biden's obvious mental decline. You're fooling nobody but yourselves.
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:38 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I bet you had that response typed out ready for the first person to disagree with you.

Incidentally, you are reading the answers wrong. Nobody is saying (or at least, admitting) that they prefer a Democrat to a Republican. They are saying that it would be better for a chimpanzee to be POTUS and not Trump.
Indeed. I am in the anyone but Trump camp, accept that Biden’s mental health and doddering public persona are issues but that even if he literally dropped dead on the campaign trail and all the ballots had been printed with his name on them, people should STILL vote for Biden over Trump. Trump is a reckless menace who has tried to overthrow the democracy of the United States which would serve as a terrifying precedent not only for the US but other countries that look up to the US, as well as Trump giving plenty of increasingly overt signs that he approves of Putin, Modi, Orban and other authoritarians and autocrats who use their cults of personality to rule rather than proper representative government. That by itself is indeed a perfect reason to vote for a chimpanzee over Trump.
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
It's hilarious to read thru all the push back against Biden's obvious mental decline. You're fooling nobody but yourselves.
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:43 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
A link to the NYT piece, perhaps? Is it an editorial. Y the NYT or is it one of their op-ed writers who doesn’t speak for the NYT?
Well the NYT articles are paywalled so here is a synopsis of the editorials and op-ed writers (Dowd and Douthat) who are writing about Biden’s age and lack of energy.

Indeed, one of the issues is not so much that Trump clearly also shows cognitive decline (from a pretty low place to begin with) but that Biden really seems uncomfortable in public, very difficult to understand in his rambling delivery, and without a lot of vim and vigor. It’s really hard to imagine going into a debate, for example, and firing off any zingers that land. It’s hard to imagine him crisscrossing the country and speaking to numerous rallies per day as is usual for a campaign.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-warning.html
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:59 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well the NYT articles are paywalled so here is a synopsis of the editorials and op-ed writers (Dowd and Douthat) who are writing about Biden’s age and lack of energy.

Indeed, one of the issues is not so much that Trump clearly also shows cognitive decline (from a pretty low place to begin with) but that Biden really seems uncomfortable in public, very difficult to understand in his rambling delivery, and without a lot of vim and vigor. It’s really hard to imagine going into a debate, for example, and firing off any zingers that land. It’s hard to imagine him crisscrossing the country and speaking to numerous rallies per day as is usual for a campaign.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-warning.html
Synopsis is just another word for spin. Archive.is or bust. And by bust I mean disrespect your audience and beclown yourself, of course.
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Old 11th February 2024, 07:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just as I was confident that our system of government could survive a Trump presidency, I'm confident it can survive an AOC presidency. Which would be a sight to see, and I'm actually somewhat in favor of it.
The first hurdle is that I don't think that she believes she's ready for something like that. It has been clowned around on the talk shows a bit, and her usual response has been rather meek and perhaps a bit embarrassed. I don't think she was acting, either. Seemed pretty genuine.

But I still think it could happen. Very unlikely, but possible. The first person who would have to be convinced is AOC, herself, and I don't think that'd be easy.

And, of course, it would never happen at this point unless the spot was suddenly wide open.

---

A related news story from 2022:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3...for-president/

Nothing has changed that I know of, other than that world events have gotten even spicier. She hasn't gotten any less popular. Some of the ones then in front of her might have gotten less popular, though (Harris, for instance).

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Old 11th February 2024, 08:05 PM   #60
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In the upcoming US Presidential election, you have a choice between

DEM - Joe Biden, an aging man who is suffering from some mental decline, which is normal for a man his age, and

REP - Donald Trump, an aging man who is suffering from some mental decline, which is normal for a man his age, who is also a found-liable sexual abuser, a twice impeached, four-times indicted former president facing 91 criminal charges ranging from fraud, to theft of official documents, to attempting to overturn the results of a free and fair election, and on top of all that, a man who is a racist, power hungry malignant narcissistic, wannabe dictator who would be perfectly happy to burn everything down and screw over the whole world so long as it benefited him personally.

The choice is clear.
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Old 11th February 2024, 08:07 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In the upcoming US Presidential election, you have a choice between

DEM - Joe Biden, an aging man who is suffering from some mental decline, which is normal for a man his age, and

REP - Donald Trump, an aging man who is suffering from some mental decline, which is normal for a man his age, who is also a found-liable sexual abuser, a twice impeached, four-times indicted former president facing 91 criminal charges ranging from fraud, to theft of official documents, to attempting to overturn the results of a free and fair election, and on top of all that, a man who is a racist, power hungry malignant narcissistic, wannabe dictator who would be perfectly happy to burn everything down and screw over the whole world so long as it benefited him personally.

The choice is clear.
Yep. I've been mostly discussing alternative (and technically possible) future history in the past few posts, but that's pretty much where we are right now. The fact that the second is even an option has lowered my opinion of my fellow countrymen by quite a bit.

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Old 11th February 2024, 08:16 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The choice is clear.
For the general election of 2024, yes. What makes the situation worth talking about is what's wrong with the DP for putting itself in situations like this in the first place and how to get it to quit doing this to itself in the future. And the first step to solving a problem is getting the person/party that has it to admit it.
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Old 11th February 2024, 08:32 PM   #63
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Reagan was fine. 54,455,472 Americans voted for him when he was already senile. Nobody noticed for a year.
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Old 11th February 2024, 08:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Synopsis is just another word for spin. Archive.is or bust. And by bust I mean disrespect your audience and beclown yourself, of course.
I have no idea what this means. I wanted to find out what LondonJohn was referencing and couldn’t because of paywall. If it is archived somewhere and you would prefer it then why not post that instead of wagging your finger.
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Old 11th February 2024, 08:48 PM   #65
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I used to see a lot of these posts a few years ago. Not so much anymore. Most of the Trump posters have moved on to other things
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Old 11th February 2024, 10:27 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Reagan was fine. 54,455,472 Americans voted for him when he was already senile. Nobody noticed for a year.
Reagan entered his Presidency at 71 and exited at age 79 in 1988. Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 1994. Several scholars have debated whether or not his cognitive decline began while he was still in office. Guess how they determined their data set for comparison. It was based on the amount of press conferences he did and whether those pressers were scripted or relied on direct question/answer sessions and his interactions with the press. Then there were the speech pattern changes. Is this starting to sound familiar?
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Old 11th February 2024, 10:33 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Minnkota or Motor Guide?
I've noticed telling truth to Democrats often elicits this type of response. I think there's a sooper secret discussion about Biden's cognitive decline among Leftists only if one prefers a safe space.
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Old 11th February 2024, 10:55 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Indeed. I am in the anyone but Trump camp, accept that Biden’s mental health and doddering public persona are issues but that even if he literally dropped dead on the campaign trail and all the ballots had been printed with his name on them, people should STILL vote for Biden over Trump. Trump is a reckless menace who has tried to overthrow the democracy of the United States which would serve as a terrifying precedent not only for the US but other countries that look up to the US, as well as Trump giving plenty of increasingly overt signs that he approves of Putin, Modi, Orban and other authoritarians and autocrats who use their cults of personality to rule rather than proper representative government. That by itself is indeed a perfect reason to vote for a chimpanzee over Trump.
Going through a few news videos I can see it's easy for the media to focus on every clip that is a self-fulfilling prophecy on Biden's "doddering".

Biden tells an autoworker he's "full of it".
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden talks to Oprah about his son's last words.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden fights back about the prosecutor's accusations:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden answers questions:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden replies to newsmedia question ....

There are more but YouTube crashed, literally, every one of the links I had tabs open on crashed all at once, even ones I didn't have lined up to open for this post.

The picture is obvious, the media cherry picks the Biden fail clips that sell their news. But it's not hard to find Biden is with it most of the time, for sure he's not senile. Gaffes? sure, lots of Biden gaffes are easily found, just as there are dozens of Trump gaffes. Sort all those out and you end up with an 81 yr old Biden who has a 3 going on 4 yr track record of his being an excellent POTUS. And with Trump you have his 4 years of bragging but the record shows only corruption and unfulfilled promises.
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Old 11th February 2024, 11:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 View Post
I mean, seriously…

< snip >

Are you kidding me? The guy is clearly suffering from serious cognitive decline. And, no, I'm not backing Trump in the GOP primary. I wish he'd quit and go enjoy what's left of his money. This should not be a partisan issue. Biden is clearly mentally unfit for office.
Dear Trump supporter:

Serious question: Why do you care? You’re not voting Democratic, so it doesn’t matter to you. So maybe find a new hobby?

As for me, I will be voting for Mr. Biden or Mr. Miyagi or Mr. Ed or whoever is at the top of the ticket in opposition to the mentally-ill, morally-bereft, lifelong criminal whose only real skill is grifting the gullible.

It doesn’t matter who will be the Democratic candidate. You’d find something about any of them to moan and groan about regardless of their qualities or qualifications.
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Old 12th February 2024, 12:26 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Going through a few news videos I can see it's easy for the media to focus on every clip that is a self-fulfilling prophecy on Biden's "doddering".

Biden tells an autoworker he's "full of it".
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden talks to Oprah about his son's last words.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden fights back about the prosecutor's accusations:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden answers questions:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Biden replies to newsmedia question ....

There are more but YouTube crashed, literally, every one of the links I had tabs open on crashed all at once, even ones I didn't have lined up to open for this post.

The picture is obvious, the media cherry picks the Biden fail clips that sell their news. But it's not hard to find Biden is with it most of the time, for sure he's not senile. Gaffes? sure, lots of Biden gaffes are easily found, just as there are dozens of Trump gaffes. Sort all those out and you end up with an 81 yr old Biden who has a 3 going on 4 yr track record of his being an excellent POTUS. And with Trump you have his 4 years of bragging but the record shows only corruption and unfulfilled promises.
I’m even more worried now because your narrative seems to be the opposite of what I was doing.

I did not watch a “cherry-picked” clip of Biden. I watched the entirety of the press conference that Biden held to answer questions about the special prosecutor. I did this before I had seen any commentary on it. The impression I got that he was doddering was exactly because of his performance there.

Now, you counter with some videos (two of which don’t seem to be visible), one of them was exactly what you complain about - a media cherry-picked example of thirty seconds of him getting angry at a Trump fan. And the video was from before he was even president so it is not even worth anything.

The second video I could see was another media cherry picked example of him getting angry at the very same press conference I had just watched in which he came across as doddering. In other words, YOU are the one desperately trying to find videos to curate an image of Biden looking good and the paucity of your evidence is exactly what worries me.
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Old 12th February 2024, 12:46 AM   #71
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If any of our resident Trump sycophants think that Biden is losing it, but that their Imperious Leader is firing on all cylinders, I would like them to comment on these gaffes by the orange prolapsed anus...

  1. Telling Americans that covid can be cured by shining a light inside the body, or by drinking/injecting bleach.
  2. Claiming that wind turbines cause cancer.
  3. Telling a crowd he was addressing in Sioux City, Iowa, how happy he was to be in Sioux Falls (which is in South Dakota).
  4. Telling a crowd that George Washington's Continental Army were able to beat the British in 1781 because they captured all the British Airfields.
  5. Claiming Victor Orban is the president of Turkey (he's actually the Prime Minister of Hungary - Recep Erdogan is the President of Turkey).
  6. Claiming that whales are being killed by wind turbines.
  7. Telling an audience he beat Obama in the 2016 election (he ran against Hillary Clinton).
  8. Claiming that Jeb Bush got the US into the war in Afghanistan (It was George W. Bush).
  9. Claiming you need ID to buy a loaf of bread.
  10. Claiming that Finnish President Sauli Niinistö told him they prevent forest fires by raking the forest floor (Niinistö denies having ever said this).
  11. Warning that Biden would get the US into World War II.
  12. Addressing a gathering of thousands of Boy Scouts with a rambling speech about cocktail parties and rich people having sex on boats.
  13. Drawing on a hurricane map with a Sharpie.
  14. Suddenly realizing after 70+ years that the initials "US" is made up of the same two letters as the word "us".
  15. Saying he met with the president of the Virgin Islands......think about it
  16. Wanting to buy Greenland and causing a diplomatic crisis when Denmark refused to sell.
  17. Saying he would build a border wall...... in Colorado.
  18. Suggesting we should "nuke hurricanes".

Capturing the British Airfields? Really? In 1781?

If these are not clear indications of someone in severe cognitive decline, then I don't know what is. Of course, the MAGA chuds never hear this stuff, because their Faux News - OAN - Newsmax echo chamber will never dare tell them, because they fear the wrath of His Exalted Trumpiness!!
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Old 12th February 2024, 01:37 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Reagan entered his Presidency at 71 and exited at age 79 in 1988. Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 1994. Several scholars have debated whether or not his cognitive decline began while he was still in office.
Concerns About Reagan’s Mental Health Were Handled Very Differently...
Quote:
The Media Mostly Played Nice

Peak media speculation about Reagan’s fitness came after his disastrous 1984 debate performance. The New York Times reported that the “age issue” dominated headlines in print publications and on national TV news in the aftermath. A Wall Street Journal headline that week went farther than most: “Reagan Debate Performance Invites Open Speculation on His Ability to Serve.”...

In 1987, The New Republic ran the headline: “Is Reagan Senile?” But the takeaway was more about Reagan’s seemingly calculated forgetfulness than possible dementia. And the idea that Reagan was actually dangerously unfit never gained traction in the mainstream media....

Reagan’s Staff Had Faith in the President

During his presidency and after, Reagan’s inner circle mostly testified to the president’s intelligence and ability to retain information.

But The New Yorker’s Jane Mayer wrote in 2011 that “by early 1987, several top White House advisers were so concerned about Reagan’s mental state that they actually talked among themselves about invoking the Twenty-fifth Amendment of the Constitution, which calls for the Vice-President to take over in the event of the President’s incapacity.” She recalled that “they told stories about how inattentive and inept the president was. He was lazy; he wasn’t interested in the job. They said he wouldn’t read the papers they gave him — even short position papers and documents...

And in his biography of the president, journalist Lou Cannon wrote: “The sad, shared secret of the Reagan White House was that no one in the presidential entourage had confidence in the judgment or the capacities of the president.”
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Old 12th February 2024, 02:06 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Dear Trump supporter:

Serious question: Why do you care? You’re not voting Democratic, so it doesn’t matter to you. So maybe find a new hobby?
He doesn't support Trump, he supports conservatism. Supporting conservatism means opposing liberalism. So he holds Biden to a higher standard than other presidents because Biden's a Democrat. And anyone who tries to argue that Biden isn't senile is falling into his trap.

Quote:
As for me, I will be voting for Mr. Biden or Mr. Miyagi or Mr. Ed or whoever is at the top of the ticket in opposition to the mentally-ill, morally-bereft, lifelong criminal whose only real skill is grifting the gullible.
Well done, that's the correct response! Being senile didn't disqualify other presidents, and it shouldn't (won't) now.

Quote:
It doesn’t matter who will be the Democratic candidate. You’d find something about any of them to moan and groan about regardless of their qualities or qualifications.
Sadly that applies to a lot of 'progressives' too. But I don't think we'll hear much moaning and groaning from them this time. Too much at stake.
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Old 12th February 2024, 03:44 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
My mother is in her 80s and despite severe physical health issues hasn't developed any form of dementia. But we've always joked that if she were given a test, she would fail it when they asked for the names of her children or her mother's name! Everyone is used to my mother using the wrong name, you will be called the dog's name, even long dead dogs' names, your brother or nephew's name, the last person she spoke to name, if she gets the right name it's a bonus. But she's always done that, it isn't a sign of dementia. Biden apparently has a stammer/stutter, I have a very slight one (to do with "st" sounds only) and I have to sometimes pause when saying something to either substitute a different word or think about the word I'm going to say. (I expect that to get worse with age not better.) Again that won't be a sign of dementia.
Odd, mine has got a lot better with age. I put it down to caring ever less what other people think of me when I stutter, which ironically means I do a lot less.

I think Biden has enough insight to know he needs a lot of help. I think Trump has very little insight and a vast amount of narcissism. I think both parties will end up doing what their biggest paymasters (i.e. the same subset of society that is pulling away from the rest) want, while distracting and wooing the voters with silly partisan slogans that are of no importance in the medium to long term.
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Old 12th February 2024, 03:53 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Even the NYT is now calling on Biden to step aside.
Evidence?

I did find an Op-Ed by Ross Douthout, who isn't the New York Times and doesn't speak for the New York Times.

His idea, which seems sort-of sensible, is for Biden to step aside at the convention so that the party could choose an alternative. Of course, this means ignoring the will of the primary voters, but I personally feel like their will should be ignored in this case.

Voters seem to have a habit of re-electing politicians that they are familiar with and comfortable with long past their sell-by date.

Quote:
That would mean not dropping out today or tomorrow or any day when party primaries are still proceeding. Instead Biden would continue accumulating pledged delegates, continue touting the improving economic numbers, continue attacking Donald Trump — until August and the convention, when he would shock the world by announcing his withdrawal from the race, decline to issue any endorsement, and invite the convention delegates to choose his replacement.
I doubt this will happen though. It would require Biden himself to willingly step aside. The last time that happened was LBJ, but he stepped aside before the primaries, not at the convention. If Biden were to step aside, that's when he should have done it.

But I don't where the New York Times itself has made any such suggestion.
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Old 12th February 2024, 04:54 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Evidence?

I did find an Op-Ed by Ross Douthout, who isn't the New York Times and doesn't speak for the New York Times.

His idea, which seems sort-of sensible, is for Biden to step aside at the convention so that the party could choose an alternative. Of course, this means ignoring the will of the primary voters, but I personally feel like their will should be ignored in this case.

Voters seem to have a habit of re-electing politicians that they are familiar with and comfortable with long past their sell-by date.



I doubt this will happen though. It would require Biden himself to willingly step aside. The last time that happened was LBJ, but he stepped aside before the primaries, not at the convention. If Biden were to step aside, that's when he should have done it.

But I don't where the New York Times itself has made any such suggestion.
So, I had a look and managed to find it on the WayBackMachine archives. That's often one good way of skirting the paywall.

The article does NOT tell Biden to step aside, but it does say that the press conference Biden had which was supposed to show Biden in control, only undermined him...

Quote:
Mr. Biden’s performance at his news conference on Thursday night was intended to assure the public that his memory is fine and argue that Mr. Hur was out of line; instead, the president raised more questions about his cognitive sharpness and temperament, as he delivered emotional and snappish retorts in a moment when people were looking for steady, even and capable responses to fair questions about his fitness.

His assurances, in other words, didn’t work. He must do better — the stakes in this presidential election are too high for Mr. Biden to hope that he can skate through a campaign with the help of teleprompters and aides and somehow defeat as manifestly unfit an opponent as Donald Trump, who has a very real chance of retaking the White House.

Mr. Biden’s allies are already going to the usual Washington playbook of dismissing the special counsel’s report as partisan. Regardless of Mr. Hur’s motivation, the details that he presented spoke to worries voters already had. The president has to reassure and build confidence with the public by doing things that he has so far been unwilling to do convincingly. He needs to be out campaigning with voters far more in unrehearsed interactions. He could undertake more town hall meetings in communities and on national television. He should hold regular news conferences to demonstrate his command of and direction for leading the country.

As it stands, he has had less substantive, unscripted interaction with the public and the press than any other president in recent memory. As Michael Shear of The Times reported last year, “In the 100 years since Calvin Coolidge took office, only Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan held as few news conferences each year as the current occupant of the Oval Office.” As of late January, he had also given fewer interviews than the last six presidents: only 86. Mr. Trump gave 300, and Barack Obama gave 422. For the second year in a row, Mr. Biden has even refused to do an interview before the Super Bowl, a practice that allowed presidents to speak to Americans informally before the country’s largest sporting event of the year, unpersuasively citing a desire to give the public a break from politics.

...

This is a dark moment for Mr. Biden’s presidency, when many voters are relying on him to provide the country with a compelling alternative to the unique danger of Mr. Trump. On the most important questions — of integrity, record of accomplishment and the character required to be fit for the presidency — there is no comparison between them. In the most challenging moments of his presidency, in supporting our allies when they are threatened and in steering the U.S. economy away from recession, Mr. Biden has been a wise and steady presence. He needs to do more to show the public that he is fully capable of holding office until age 86.
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Old 12th February 2024, 05:03 AM   #77
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In other words, everyone is starting to wonder if Biden is even capable of doing a proper interview or campaign stops or debates now. The fact that he was barely able to last a ten-minute press conference, and even then made a number of rambling statements that made almost no sense, and was confused about which country Sisi was the president of, suggests that the reason he does so little face time with the public is because he cannot.

What is the evidence he is fine?

"Biden tells an autoworker he's "full of it"." ... in 2020!

That video was from his last campaign.

Apparently a video of him talking with Oprah (although I cannot see the video because of country restrictions). Either way, it is hardly the same as an interview with a hostile interviewer. Obama used to go toe-to-toe with hostile interviewers such as Bill O'Reilly, for example. In fact, no doubt Biden did that once, but the idea of him doing that now is almost a joke.

Then...

"Biden fights back about the prosecutor's accusations:"

This is from the very same press conference where he looked peevish and stumbled over his words. Even the jab at Doughty was fumbled.

Some people like to think this is purely some media fabrication that is trying to portray Biden as more frail and absent-minded than he really is. If that was the case, Biden would have the perfect opportunity to dispel this myth, but unaccountably chooses not to. Why would he do that? Why would he not be leaping up on a stage and showing just how much energy he has?
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Old 12th February 2024, 05:09 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Reagan was fine. 54,455,472 Americans voted for him when he was already senile. Nobody noticed for a year.
No internet ********* and antisocial media back then.


With regards to Biden, I was always unter the impression that it is not Biden but the Dems who are pushing him to keep going? I thought Biden would happily leave it to the next candidate, if there was one.

Didn't Biden saw himself as some sort of makeshift for running against Trump?
At his age I would guess that he would be relieved if the Dems decide to finally find another candidate.
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Old 12th February 2024, 05:27 AM   #79
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This does remind me uncomfortably of RBG not stepping aside when it was her time. Biden has surrounded himself with competent people and I wouldn't fear a second term, but I do fear for the election.
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Old 12th February 2024, 05:36 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Ryan O'Dine View Post
This does remind me uncomfortably of RBG not stepping aside when it was her time. Biden has surrounded himself with competent people and I wouldn't fear a second term, but I do fear for the election.
Indeed. And all it cost was having a balanced Supreme Court replaced with a religious right one. If Trump were to get back in it would probably make sense for Thomas and Alito to retire and for Trump to appoint two more Federalist Society members in their forties or early fifties. Then the religious right would effectively have a lock on the court for another twenty years.
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