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Old 28th May 2023, 06:40 AM   #241
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Was there really a traditional Maori view of humans as part of the natural world? I ask because that sounds a lot like the sentimental hooey made up about First Peoples here in N. America (yes, ALL of them, Iroquois and Diggers, Hopi and Blackfeet, Algonquins and Apaches and oh god lay me down!). It's a viewpoint that I'd attribute more to modern-day Western environmental disciplines than to Neolithic gardeners and fishermen.

When the people of lesser societies encounter more capable ways of life, they can't help feeling resentful, and their reaction almost always takes a destructively nativist direction. We see this right here in the USA, and not with FPs, but with white rural proletarians.

"Give me ignorance or give me death!" sounds like parody. But it isn't.
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Old 28th May 2023, 03:47 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Was there really a traditional Maori view of humans as part of the natural world? I ask because that sounds a lot like the sentimental hooey made up about First Peoples here in N. America (yes, ALL of them, Iroquois and Diggers, Hopi and Blackfeet, Algonquins and Apaches and oh god lay me down!). It's a viewpoint that I'd attribute more to modern-day Western environmental disciplines than to Neolithic gardeners and fishermen.

When the people of lesser societies encounter more capable ways of life, they can't help feeling resentful, and their reaction almost always takes a destructively nativist direction. We see this right here in the USA, and not with FPs, but with white rural proletarians.

"Give me ignorance or give me death!" sounds like parody. But it isn't.
So it is the fault of the pakeha!
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Old 28th May 2023, 05:07 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So it is the fault of the pakeha!
I see your point. Of course the pre- or non- or (in the US instance) anti-literate groups must borrow their lore from the imaginings of the larger society, especially after their last purely oral traditionalists have died out. (I think that the larger societies don't fall into that floofy Noble Savage pot o' crap until well after the real savages are pacified.)

But I think that the Maoris and Sioux and others, being now, willy-nilly, literate peoples, can be called to account for the stuff they profess. My challenge to their assertions would be less scholarly than blunt: "Where in hell do you get all that?"

The honest answer would be that they read it in a book. The answer that they'll blare is "From our traditional wisdom that our ancestors give us in our tradition! Bleah!" And b'god there'll be plenty of besotted pakeha and wisichu to blare it after them.

And it's been building up for generations.
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Old 28th May 2023, 05:16 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
I see your point. Of course the pre- or non- or (in the US instance) anti-literate groups must borrow their lore from the imaginings of the larger society, especially after their last purely oral traditionalists have died out. (I think that the larger societies don't fall into that floofy Noble Savage pot o' crap until well after the real savages are pacified.)

But I think that the Maoris and Sioux and others, being now, willy-nilly, literate peoples, can be called to account for the stuff they profess. My challenge to their assertions would be less scholarly than blunt: "Where in hell do you get all that?"

The honest answer would be that they read it in a book. The answer that they'll blare is "From our traditional wisdom that our ancestors give us in our tradition! Bleah!" And b'god there'll be plenty of besotted pakeha and wisichu to blare it after them.

And it's been building up for generations.
Yes. The crazies here have been given control of all water, in and out of the infrastructure. Equal control Maori and colonists, with complete veto rights by Maori.
All water executives are equal but some are more equal than others.
They claim they understand water better because they were here sooner.
The result is incredibly highly paid jobs for Maori consultants and spiritual advisors, most of whom are 25% or less Maori by DNA.
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Old 28th May 2023, 05:24 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
I see your point. Of course the pre- or non- or (in the US instance) anti-literate groups must borrow their lore from the imaginings of the larger society, especially after their last purely oral traditionalists have died out. (I think that the larger societies don't fall into that floofy Noble Savage pot o' crap until well after the real savages are pacified.)

But I think that the Maoris and Sioux and others, being now, willy-nilly, literate peoples, can be called to account for the stuff they profess. My challenge to their assertions would be less scholarly than blunt: "Where in hell do you get all that?"

The honest answer would be that they read it in a book. The answer that they'll blare is "From our traditional wisdom that our ancestors give us in our tradition! Bleah!" And b'god there'll be plenty of besotted pakeha and wisichu to blare it after them.

And it's been building up for generations.
Here's the thing, I have no idea what traditional Maori views are of mankind's relationship with nature. It is possible that there is a genuine oral tradition that has been passed down, and it is also possible that this is a modern reinvention.

But, it is almost certainly true that there was a tradition in the West for seeing humanity as above nature. The idea is religious, that God gave Man dominion over the animals etc... Modern science has, over time, challenged that view which is one of the reasons why Darwinian evolution was considered so controversial, and of course later with things like the Big Bang, etc..

I have no problem with a textbook looking at ways different societies have conceptualized the place of mankind in nature, if it is accurate, of course.

My first thought about Maori Creationism in schools was "No thanks!" but in this case I don't see that being used here. In fact, it seems only to be a minor foray into the history and philosophy of science which I find a perfectly normal thing for a textbook to include.

Is there anything in this textbook that is particularly objectionable?
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Old 28th May 2023, 06:58 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
They'll no doubt just blame the remaining paheka.


No doubt on that.

Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Was there really a traditional Maori view of humans as part of the natural world?
Unknown.

What we do know is they didn't have any other words for people. "Maori" was all they knew. Everything else is an invention.

How they saw themselves in terms of nature, I'm not sure. They happily hunted moa to extinction, and burned off so much bush the ash is still visible in cross sections of Antarctic ice.
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Old 28th May 2023, 07:02 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post


No doubt on that.



Unknown.

What we do know is they didn't have any other words for people. "Maori" was all they knew. Everything else is an invention.

How they saw themselves in terms of nature, I'm not sure. They happily hunted moa to extinction, and burned off so much bush the ash is still visible in cross sections of Antarctic ice.
Indeed. And this is also similar to the hunting of megafauna all over the world suggesting that Māori probably do not have any uniquely blessed way of living with the environment.
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Old 28th May 2023, 08:59 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Indeed. And this is also similar to the hunting of megafauna all over the world suggesting that Māori probably do not have any uniquely blessed way of living with the environment.
Yes, let's keep pushing that angle. I mean, Pakeha wasted no time replacing the rest of the fauna with introduced species, and destroying the 70% of forest that was left. Soon after which we discovered coal and then oil, with which we are now destroying the entire planet's environment.

And now some Maori pretend the environment matters to them, as if it did to any of their ancestors. I say drag them down into the gutter so when the **** hits the fan nobody can claim they are better than us.
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Old 28th May 2023, 11:58 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Is there anything in this textbook that is particularly objectionable?
On the one page recently posted, it contrasts the Maori worldview with "the Traditional" worldview in which "humans are superior to the environment".

I think, and I may be overthinking, that this is setting up a strawman. I don't think it's helpful to accuse all non-Maori of being anti-environmental.
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Old 29th May 2023, 01:48 AM   #250
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Meanwhile this article shows how road usage with deaths now and then is OK.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politi...PWLWFOPTM3YIE/

Aviation has adopted a standard where confusion is eliminated. Statistics prove this, way safer to fly despite the inherent fragility.
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Old 29th May 2023, 04:50 AM   #251
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Here is how indigenous dna race based remuneration is out of control

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/05/n...ira_trust.html
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Old 29th May 2023, 09:51 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Here's the thing, I have no idea what traditional Maori views are of mankind's relationship with nature. It is possible that there is a genuine oral tradition that has been passed down, and it is also possible that this is a modern reinvention.

But, it is almost certainly true that there was a tradition in the West for seeing humanity as above nature. The idea is religious, that God gave Man dominion over the animals etc... Modern science has, over time, challenged that view which is one of the reasons why Darwinian evolution was considered so controversial, and of course later with things like the Big Bang, etc..

I have no problem with a textbook looking at ways different societies have conceptualized the place of mankind in nature, if it is accurate, of course.

My first thought about Maori Creationism in schools was "No thanks!" but in this case I don't see that being used here. In fact, it seems only to be a minor foray into the history and philosophy of science which I find a perfectly normal thing for a textbook to include.

Is there anything in this textbook that is particularly objectionable?
The mauri and mana concepts in the textbook on p. 124 look to be not scientific, so to that extent it's objectionable to have that in a science textbook.
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Old 29th May 2023, 11:24 AM   #253
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It would be nice if there were a science textbook that conceptualized the place of mankind in nature on a rational, scientific basis.

You don't have to appeal to primitive superstition, in order to teach conservation, ecosystems, etc.
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Old 29th May 2023, 12:01 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Here is how indigenous dna race based remuneration is out of control

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/05/n...ira_trust.html
John Tamihere always reminds me of what Don King said to Muhammad Ali about George Foreman in 1974.

"He don't care about black or white, the only colour that interests him is green."
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Old 29th May 2023, 12:16 PM   #255
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Come to that,

1) All superstition is primitive. It's inadequate thinking that ignores evidence.

2) We're all descended from hunting savages, and at no great distance in time. To be sure, it takes all the wits you've got to be a hunter-forager, and I doubt that the oldest ones let daft beliefs get between them and dinner. But

3) We're also descended from Neolithic farmers, all but a damn tiny minority of us, and I think that superstition, i.e., religionism, really took off with the advent of agriculture, simply because it's such a chancy, scary, uncertain way of life.

The Maoris are no longer subsistence farmers, and the futility of their supposedly traditional beliefs obviously applies to them just as much as to everybody else.

Oh, how's that? Nativist officials paying themselves big salaries out of public funds? Gee, I thought that went out in the early 70s when I was living in Colorado and La Raza was hiring 23-year-old nondegree "systems analysts" for $40,000 a year. That's in 70s dollars.

Not that I blamed them much, because I supposed that it wouldn't last.
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Old 29th May 2023, 09:24 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Go to page 1. It is called SciPad. It is "The essential workbook for New Zealand science students"

Then look at the contents page.

Then flip through it.

It is a science textbook.
It is, in fact, one page in a series of 60 science textbooks.

I'm not seeing the destruction of NZ's science curriculum here.
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Old 29th May 2023, 09:43 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
The mauri and mana concepts in the textbook on p. 124 look to be not scientific, so to that extent it's objectionable to have that in a science textbook.
True. Yeah, that really is garbage.

Yeah, that should definitely not have made the edit.
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Old 29th May 2023, 10:31 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
The mauri and mana concepts in the textbook on p. 124 look to be not scientific, so to that extent it's objectionable to have that in a science textbook.
They should be teaching that *that* is the "traditional worldview".
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Old 30th May 2023, 02:54 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
3) We're also descended from Neolithic farmers...
Just a small aside: if you refer to pre-European Maori as neolithic - a perfectly accurate term - it's a hanging offence.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It is, in fact, one page in a series of 60 science textbooks.

I'm not seeing the destruction of NZ's science curriculum here.
Maori have employed the thin edge of the wedge for half a century. They've already successfully had traditional Maori medicine removed from the need to have evidential backing, and what you see in that science curriculum is just the start.
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Old 30th May 2023, 03:20 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Just a small aside: if you refer to pre-European Maori as neolithic - a perfectly accurate term - it's a hanging offence.
While this punishment is not literally true, what are the sanctions against making a perfectly reasonable comment like this?
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Old 30th May 2023, 11:13 AM   #261
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Being permanently labelled a racist is top of the list.
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Old 30th May 2023, 11:13 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
The mauri and mana concepts in the textbook on p. 124 look to be not scientific, so to that extent it's objectionable to have that in a science textbook.

This video dates from about a year ago and the caption is quite revealing, pay close attention to the speaker bio and the various slides.



Quote:
In our first Climate Conversation, Akuhata Bailey-Winiata (University of Waikato) will speak specifically about his work on the relevance and application of mātauranga and te ao Māori in climate change. The session will be facilitated by Glen Cornelius (Chief Executive, Harrison Grierson and Deputy President, Te Ao Rangahau).



About Akuhata Bailey-Winiata Akuhata is an Indigenous Māori scientist from Aotearoa New Zealand, with tribal connections to Te Arawa, Tūhoe and Tūwharetoa. He has a BSc in Earth Science with a minor in Geography at the University of Waikato. As well as a MSc at the University of Waikato which investigated the potential exposure of coastal marae (ancestral Māori meeting house) and urupā (Māori cemeteries) to the impacts of sea level rise around Aotearoa New Zealand. He has embarked on a PhD at the University of Waikato, funded through the Resilience to Nature’s Challenges – National Science Challenge, with supervisors from the University of Auckland, which is to co-develop with coastal Māori communities a decolonised managed retreat process for Māori in response to sea level rise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3MF0PoPkCM
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Old 30th May 2023, 11:57 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
This video dates from about a year ago and the caption is quite revealing, pay close attention to the speaker bio and the various slides.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3MF0PoPkCM
Can you quote or time-stamp the best or most relevant section in your opinion (it's 45 minutes as is), because Jerry Coyne has already criticized that presentation as not having actual substance on the question:

Quote:
Since this is a half-hour lecture by a credentialed Māori climate-change scientist, I take it to be the best case that can be made for infusing MM into modern science, at least in terms of climate change. And the case is not only weak, but nonexistent. There is no “there” there.
Source
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Old 30th May 2023, 02:27 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Here's the thing, I have no idea what traditional Maori views are of mankind's relationship with nature. It is possible that there is a genuine oral tradition that has been passed down, and it is also possible that this is a modern reinvention.

But, it is almost certainly true that there was a tradition in the West for seeing humanity as above nature. The idea is religious, that God gave Man dominion over the animals etc... Modern science has, over time, challenged that view which is one of the reasons why Darwinian evolution was considered so controversial, and of course later with things like the Big Bang, etc..

I have no problem with a textbook looking at ways different societies have conceptualized the place of mankind in nature, if it is accurate, of course.

My first thought about Maori Creationism in schools was "No thanks!" but in this case I don't see that being used here. In fact, it seems only to be a minor foray into the history and philosophy of science which I find a perfectly normal thing for a textbook to include.

Is there anything in this textbook that is particularly objectionable?
I think a rational, atheistic case can be made for seeing humanity as above nature. Humanity's tool use rises to the level of doing an absolute end-run around random mutation and natural selection, for one thing.

The question then becomes, if man is the measure of all things, what kind of world do we want to measure out for ourselves? Do we want to subordinate ourselves to the natural order of the wilderness? Or do we want to bring it to heel, in the service of whatever goals we choose to set? And how do we go about resolving land use disputes between the naturalists and the artificialists? Hopefully not by appeal to superstition, but that seems to be where we're at.

"But we're supposed to do a rain dance, just like our ancestors did" strikes me as being on the same spectrum as deaf people who want deaf children, just so they can perpetuate deaf culture.
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Old 30th May 2023, 06:18 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Maori have employed the thin edge of the wedge for half a century. They've already successfully had traditional Maori medicine removed from the need to have evidential backing, and what you see in that science curriculum is just the start.
If you say so. What I've seen so far is one page out of 60 books. That's pretty thin, in my opinion. At best, it is an interesting aside.
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Old 31st May 2023, 02:52 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If you say so. What I've seen so far is one page out of 60 books. That's pretty thin, in my opinion. At best, it is an interesting aside.
These are the same people who demand control over all water in the country. They're not going to stop at one page.
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Old 31st May 2023, 03:35 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
These are the same people who demand control over all water in the country. They're not going to stop at one page.
How long before the paheka are required to pay a yearly sum to breathe the air?

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Old 31st May 2023, 03:43 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
How long before the paheka are required to pay a yearly sum to breathe the air?

Luckily, Te Tiriti doesn't mention air, or we would be.
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Old 31st May 2023, 03:51 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
...Te Tiriti...
We were discussing this the other day, and Maori have more than a dollar each way on it. It's heads I win and tails you lose.

The English version is quite clear, but in terms of the Tribunal, is utterly meaningless, because the Maori version means something else, apparently and must take precedence.

Given that the Maori language in 2023 bears almost no relationship to that of 1840, Maori have the luxury of deciding what the 1840 document means and nobody can gainsay them.

The whole Maori/Pakeha situation becomes absurd to Monty Python extremes when you look at Corrections advertising. This campaign was labelled racist, while at the same time, Maori demand a more Maori-centric approach.

To me, it smacks of growing attempts to have a separate justice system for Maori.

Won't that be fun.
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Old 31st May 2023, 07:09 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It is, in fact, one page in a series of 60 science textbooks.

I'm not seeing the destruction of NZ's science curriculum here.
Destruction or not, can we agree that those concepts on that page have no business in a science textbook? And can we agree that we wouldn't want to see that type of thing become a trend?
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Old 31st May 2023, 07:22 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Destruction or not, can we agree that those concepts on that page have no business in a science textbook? And can we agree that we wouldn't want to see that type of thing become a trend?
Well I can
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Old 31st May 2023, 09:06 AM   #272
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It's almost enough to wonder what would happen to New Zealand, if the Kiwis rolled themselves up in their generational colonizer guilt, decamped to Australia, and let the Maori have the run of the place. Perhaps they'd create a Wakanda of the South Pacific, founded on Maori principles of epistemology and ethics.
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Old 31st May 2023, 12:02 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's almost enough to wonder what would happen to New Zealand, if the Kiwis rolled themselves up in their generational colonizer guilt, decamped to Australia, and let the Maori have the run of the place. Perhaps they'd create a Wakanda of the South Pacific, founded on Maori principles of epistemology and ethics.


That's pure gold.

According to Maori, they were non-violent until whitey showed them how to do it properly.

They didn't commit genocide on the Moriori, eat their enemies, or rape and enslave conquered tribes' women, either.

If we ****** off they'd be dead in weeks.
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Old 31st May 2023, 01:22 PM   #274
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See, they did eat their enemies, but this is a matter that can only be properly discussed and examined by indigenous authorities, in the context of indigenous religious practices. Only Maori can understand why this was the right thing to do, and they can only explain it to other Maori. /s
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Old 31st May 2023, 03:32 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's pure gold.

According to Maori... They didn't commit genocide on the Moriori, eat their enemies, or rape and enslave conquered tribes' women, either.

If we ****** off they'd be dead in weeks.
Thanks for getting that out in the open - it's all about 'us' vs 'them'. Nothing to do with racism mind you - oh no.

Europe’s Hypocritical History of Cannibalism
Quote:
Even if Europe’s Homo sapiens didn’t consume each other in prehistory, they certainly did in more modern times. References to acts of cannibalism are sprinkled throughout many religious and historical documents, such as the reports that cooked human flesh was being sold in 11th-century English markets during times of famine, says Jay Rubenstein, a historian at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville.

However, the world’s first cannibal incident reported by multiple, independent, first-hand accounts took place during the Crusades by European soldiers, Rubenstein says.

These first-hand stories agree that in 1098, after a successful siege and capture of the Syrian city Ma’arra, Christian soldiers ate the flesh of local Muslims. Thereafter the facts get murky, Rubenstein says. Some chroniclers report that the bodies were secretly consumed in “wicked banquets” borne out of famine and without the authorization of military leaders, Rubenstein says. Other reports suggest the cannibalism was done with tacit approval of military superiors who wished to use stories of the barbaric act as a psychological fear tactic in future Crusade battles...

By the 16th century, cannibalism was not just part of the mental furniture of Europeans; it was a common part of everyday medicine from Spain to England.

Initially, little bits of pulverized mummies imported from Egypt were used in prescriptions against disease, but the practice soon expanded to include the flesh, skin, bone, blood, fat and urine of local cadavers, such as recently executed criminals and bodies dug up illegally from graveyards, says University of Durham’s Richard Sugg, who published a book in 2011 called Mummies, Cannibals and Vampires: The History of Corpse Medicine from the Renaissance to the Victorians.

While Europeans ate “mummy” to cure their physical ailments, the same culture sent missionaries and colonists to the New World to cure New World indigenous people of their purported barbaric cannibalism, some of which was entirely fabricated as a rationale for conquest, Bowdler says. “It’s certainly possible that Europeans were consuming more human flesh at the time than people in the New World,” Sugg says.

“It’s a big paradox,” Noble adds. The term cannibal was being used to describe someone inferior while the “civilized in Europe were also eating bits of the human body,”
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Old 31st May 2023, 05:05 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
See, they did eat their enemies, but this is a matter that can only be properly discussed and examined by indigenous authorities, in the context of indigenous religious practices. Only Maori can understand why this was the right thing to do, and they can only explain it to other Maori. /s
That's exactly true.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Thanks for getting that out in the open - it's all about 'us' vs 'them'. Nothing to do with racism mind you - oh no.
What a total crocl. I'm not denying Europeans have been cannibals, or that we had slaves.

It's nothing to do with us vs them, it's about facts vs lies and it's a lie to claim they didn't eat or enslave their own kind - and Europeans. No Pom ever ate a Maori that I'm aware of, but it's 100% factual a number of Poms ended up in Maori bellies.

And we also know with 100% certainty that the one peaceful tribe in NZ was the Moriori, and they were wiped out by Taranaki Maori.

But it's ok - those Taranaki Maori had had their land taken off them by white *****, so at least they can still blame us for it.
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Old 1st June 2023, 12:35 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
What a total crocl. I'm not denying Europeans have been cannibals, or that we had slaves.

It's nothing to do with us vs them,
What a crock. You literally said it, and that if Maori were left to themselves they would be 'dead in weeks'. Granted you didn't actually say they would start eating each other, but...
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Old 1st June 2023, 03:11 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
You literally said it, and that if Maori were left to themselves they would be 'dead in weeks'.
Merely stating a fact.

Maori land is distinguishable from other land everywhere in the country.

Maori form ~15% of the population of NZ, yet...

50% of the prison population is Maori

50% of solo parent support beneficiaries are Maori

Maori are four times as likely to be unemployed, three times more likely to smoke cigarettes, and have less than 1/4 as many doctors as the rest of the population.

Again, it's all white ***** fault so none of it matters.

I always cast my mind back to 1983 when I was acting bank manager in the poorest area of NZ and benefit payments were late one week. A crowd of Maori women stood screaming at me, demanding their "pay". I just shook my head and locked the door. Pay, it is not.

And be aware, none of that bothers me at all - I'm happy for my white guilt to pay billions in benefits because actions by people 180 years ago deprived them of their cannibalism traditional lands. What I object to is them going a step further and demanding their idiotic fairytales be part of school curricula. I don't accept it from christian religions, Hinduism, Pasifika or Chinese culture or Pagans, and I'm not about to accept it from Maori.
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Old 1st June 2023, 12:46 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Merely stating a fact.

Maori land is distinguishable from other land everywhere in the country.

Maori form ~15% of the population of NZ, yet...

50% of the prison population is Maori

50% of solo parent support beneficiaries are Maori

Maori are four times as likely to be unemployed, three times more likely to smoke cigarettes, and have less than 1/4 as many doctors as the rest of the population.

Again, it's all white ***** fault so none of it matters.

I always cast my mind back to 1983 when I was acting bank manager in the poorest area of NZ and benefit payments were late one week. A crowd of Maori women stood screaming at me, demanding their "pay". I just shook my head and locked the door. Pay, it is not.

And be aware, none of that bothers me at all - I'm happy for my white guilt to pay billions in benefits because actions by people 180 years ago deprived them of their cannibalism traditional lands. What I object to is them going a step further and demanding their idiotic fairytales be part of school curricula. I don't accept it from christian religions, Hinduism, Pasifika or Chinese culture or Pagans, and I'm not about to accept it from Maori.
AMEN!
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Old 2nd June 2023, 03:35 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Merely stating a fact.

Maori land is distinguishable from other land everywhere in the country.

Maori form ~15% of the population of NZ, yet...

50% of the prison population is Maori

50% of solo parent support beneficiaries are Maori

Maori are four times as likely to be unemployed, three times more likely to smoke cigarettes, and have less than 1/4 as many doctors as the rest of the population.

Again, it's all white ***** fault so none of it matters.

I always cast my mind back to 1983 when I was acting bank manager in the poorest area of NZ and benefit payments were late one week. A crowd of Maori women stood screaming at me, demanding their "pay". I just shook my head and locked the door. Pay, it is not.

And be aware, none of that bothers me at all - I'm happy for my white guilt to pay billions in benefits because actions by people 180 years ago deprived them of their cannibalism traditional lands. What I object to is them going a step further and demanding their idiotic fairytales be part of school curricula. I don't accept it from christian religions, Hinduism, Pasifika or Chinese culture or Pagans, and I'm not about to accept it from Maori.
You aced it.
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