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Old 21st May 2023, 01:54 AM   #1
a_unique_person
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Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

Mod InfoContinuation thread, original thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=359078
Posted By:Darat
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sues-rcna84884

Teen shoots and kills three elderly women,

His mother knew he had just bought a gun but didn't think anything of it.
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Last edited by Darat; 30th May 2023 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 21st May 2023, 02:42 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
No, it's an all-too-common desperation to cram the facts into preferred villain/victim narratives, rather than than dispassionately examining the facts.

It's merely the mirror image of the far right casting the Jews or progressives as the villains in every narrative and no more admirable. As sceptics, we should be above that.
big difference is the jews or progressives aren't the villians. this guy was a nazi, covered in nazi tattoos, spending his free time talking about nazi stuff online. not a narrative, just who he was and what he did.
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Old 21st May 2023, 02:44 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by sinnikal View Post
Ah yes, I forgot the Proud Boys are simply 'Western Chauvinists'. No dog-whistling going on there, no sirree.
well he's never even heard of them before and just googled it
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Old 21st May 2023, 06:37 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sues-rcna84884

Teen shoots and kills three elderly women,

His mother knew he had just bought a gun but didn't think anything of it.
But Charlie Kirk says it's a small price to pay for our freedumbs:

Quote:
"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe."
source
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Last edited by shemp; 21st May 2023 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 21st May 2023, 07:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
But Charlie Kirk says it's a small price to pay for our freedumbs:



source
Quote:
"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some 20,958* gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights."
Fixed it for him.

* 2021 total. Does not include 26,328 firearm suicides.
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Old 21st May 2023, 07:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Fixed it for him.

* 2021 total. Does not include 26,328 firearm suicides.
In a sick way, I'd rather that guys like Kirk come right out and say it, as he did. Cards on the table and all that, no wink and nod bull ****. Just a simple "I don't mind your kids being killed in school as long as I can jerk off with my AR and fantasize about killing people and feel powerful".

But the flip side is normalizing that kind of thinking, and it becoming acceptable to say out loud. I don't want any kids, for instance, thinking that such thinking has any seat at the table in a civilized society.
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Old 21st May 2023, 07:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
No, it's an all-too-common desperation to cram the facts into preferred villain/victim narratives, rather than than dispassionately examining the facts.
The only person who tried to do that was Bogative with his "I bet the media is hiding his identity because his motivation was to 'kill as many whiteys as I sees' ". It wasn't until it was revealed that he was deep into neo-Nazi, white supremacist culture that anyone addressed that.

Quote:
It's merely the mirror image of the far right casting the Jews or progressives as the villains in every narrative and no more admirable. As sceptics, we should be above that.
How morally upstanding of you to defend neo-Nazis, white supremacists and misogynists from being unjustly cast as villains.
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Old 21st May 2023, 08:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
In a sick way, I'd rather that guys like Kirk come right out and say it, as he did. Cards on the table and all that, no wink and nod bull ****. Just a simple "I don't mind your kids being killed in school as long as I can jerk off with my AR and fantasize about killing people and feel powerful".

But the flip side is normalizing that kind of thinking, and it becoming acceptable to say out loud. I don't want any kids, for instance, thinking that such thinking has any seat at the table in a civilized society.
I cheered when John Stewart told Nathan Dahm "you don't give a **** about dead children", and he just sat there and squirmed. Maybe a better strategy is to reduce their arguments to their essence like that, then watch them squirm as they visibly fail to admit that they don't give a **** about your kids being murdered, like the cowards they are.
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Old 21st May 2023, 07:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
But Charlie Kirk says it's a small price to pay for our freedumbs:



source
It would be churlish to ignore a God given right.
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Old 21st May 2023, 07:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
It would be churlish to ignore a God given right.
And Charlie Kirk is as churlish as they come.
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Old 21st May 2023, 10:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
His mother knew he had just bought a gun but didn't think anything of it.
Why would she? Buying a gun is totally normal in modern America.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 01:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Why would she? Buying a gun is totally normal in modern America.
Especially an AR-15. Very popular.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 03:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
I cheered when John Stewart told Nathan Dahm "you don't give a **** about dead children", and he just sat there and squirmed. Maybe a better strategy is to reduce their arguments to their essence like that, then watch them squirm as they visibly fail to admit that they don't give a **** about your kids being murdered, like the cowards they are.
I do wonder if they could be shocked out of their attitude - normally I would say "shamed" but we know they have no shame.

If a parent of a murdered child was debating with him, would anything change if the parent held up a photo of their dead child showing the damage of the weapons he thinks are worth the death of that child?
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Old 22nd May 2023, 03:47 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I do wonder if they could be shocked out of their attitude - normally I would say "shamed" but we know they have no shame.

If a parent of a murdered child was debating with him, would anything change if the parent held up a photo of their dead child showing the damage of the weapons he thinks are worth the death of that child?

Probably not.

More liable to say, "If only the child had been armed."
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Old 22nd May 2023, 06:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I do wonder if they could be shocked out of their attitude - normally I would say "shamed" but we know they have no shame.

If a parent of a murdered child was debating with him, would anything change if the parent held up a photo of their dead child showing the damage of the weapons he thinks are worth the death of that child?
I think the only way the US is getting sane gun laws for the foreseeable future is if a white supremacist guns down one of the six far-rightists on the bench of the supreme court.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 07:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
I think the only way the US is getting sane gun laws for the foreseeable future is if a white supremacist guns down one all of the six far-rightists on the bench of the supreme court.
Why stop at one?
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Old 22nd May 2023, 07:11 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
I think the only way the US is getting sane gun laws for the foreseeable future is if a white supremacist guns down one of the six far-rightists on the bench of the supreme court.
As a skeptic, I must point out that this is speculation, but it's very much a testable hypothesis.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 07:14 AM   #18
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Please. A clone of Hitler himself could murder every Conservative Judge on the bench while Trump rides on his back MasterBlaster style and the Right's response would be to shoot an unarmed black person in the back 37 times and require you to carry an AR-15 to vote.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 07:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Please. A clone of Hitler himself could murder every Conservative Judge on the bench while Trump rides on his back MasterBlaster style and the Right's response would be to shoot an unarmed black person in the back 37 times and require you to carry an AR-15 to vote.
I tend to agree. None of these freaks wavered even a little when some guy with a rifle sprayed the Republican softball game.

Scalise was shot and will probably have permanent quality of life loss as a result and it didn't shake his faith. Commendable, in a very sick sort of way.

Quote:
Scalise has been an opponent of gun control and was given an "A+ rating" from the National Rifle Association.[72][73] After being shot, and in the wake of the 2017 Las Vegas shooting, Scalise said on Meet the Press that he is still a gun rights supporter: "Don't try to put new laws in place that don't fix these problems. They only make it harder for law-abiding citizens to own a gun." Scalise has described the Second Amendment as "unlimited".[74]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Scalise
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Old 22nd May 2023, 07:32 AM   #20
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Old 22nd May 2023, 08:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost View Post
I tend to agree. None of these freaks wavered even a little when some guy with a rifle sprayed the Republican softball game.

Scalise was shot and will probably have permanent quality of life loss as a result and it didn't shake his faith. Commendable, in a very sick sort of way.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Scalise
If the Second Amendment is "unlimited" then I suppose prisoners should be permitted to own and carry guns. I don't see the Founding Fathers saying they couldn't.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 09:10 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If the Second Amendment is "unlimited" then I suppose prisoners should be permitted to own and carry guns. I don't see the Founding Fathers saying they couldn't.
Along with felons and anyone who appears before Congress or The Supreme Court. Also curious how many of these politicians hold events that don't permit firearms.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 09:14 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Along with felons and anyone who appears before Congress or The Supreme Court. Also curious how many of these politicians hold events that don't permit firearms.
Gun free zones don't work? Ok, then lets get rid of ALL gun free zones.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 11:18 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Why stop at one?
So you do support gun violence if it meets your political ends.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 06:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I do wonder if they could be shocked out of their attitude - normally I would say "shamed" but we know they have no shame.

If a parent of a murdered child was debating with him, would anything change if the parent held up a photo of their dead child showing the damage of the weapons he thinks are worth the death of that child?
I've said it might be time to make Republican legislators pose in front of crime scene photos of children killed with high power rifles whenever they want to talk about their interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. But there was a time when I'd have thought that simply knowing that such things were happening with alarming regularity would have been enough to make a demand for change virtually unanimous. I'm so sick at heart of this ******* ******** that I honestly fear that it would just be the first step to normalizing such horrific images.
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Old 23rd May 2023, 05:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
So you do support gun violence if it meets your political ends.
Ever heard of the American Revolution?
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Old 23rd May 2023, 05:33 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Ever heard of the American Revolution?
Well of course.What is your point though and how is germane to my observation?
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Old 23rd May 2023, 05:43 AM   #28
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Back to our regularly scheduled mass shootings.

14 wounded in Clarksdale, Mississippi in a dispute that began at a "concert" and escalated after "two groups" stumbled onto one another on the street a short time later.

Judging by the security camera footage, these 2 groups were not composed of members of White supremacist terrorist groups the the federal government keeps warning us about.

https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/14...cd25155fe.html
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Old 23rd May 2023, 06:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Back to our regularly scheduled mass shootings.

14 wounded in Clarksdale, Mississippi in a dispute that began at a "concert" and escalated after "two groups" stumbled onto one another on the street a short time later.

Judging by the security camera footage, these 2 groups were not composed of members of White supremacist terrorist groups the the federal government keeps warning us about.

https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/14...cd25155fe.html
Another mass shooting in a state with very loose gun laws. Oh well.
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Old 25th May 2023, 03:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If the Second Amendment is "unlimited" then I suppose prisoners should be permitted to own and carry guns. I don't see the Founding Fathers saying they couldn't.
Why stop at guns? If nukes are outlawed, only the outlaws will have nukes. And who's the government to tell me I can't drive down the freeway in an M1 Abrams?
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Old 25th May 2023, 05:20 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If the Second Amendment is "unlimited" then I suppose prisoners should be permitted to own and carry guns. I don't see the Founding Fathers saying they couldn't.
Who has argued that the second amendment is unlimited and immune from any and all regulation?
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Old 25th May 2023, 10:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
Scalise went on to cite the Founding Fathers’ strong belief in the right to bear arms (curiously, though, no mention of the Third Amendment and their related belief that citizens should not have to quarter soldiers), and when asked by host Chuck Todd if the Second Amendment should be seen as “unlimited,” Scalise nodded: “It is.”
https://www.vogue.com/article/steve-...-gun-anti-lgbt
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Old 29th May 2023, 10:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Who has argued that the second amendment is unlimited and immune from any and all regulation?
Can you deny that the "second amendmendists" aren't actually working towards this?
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Old 30th May 2023, 02:00 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Can you deny that the "second amendmendists" aren't actually working towards this?
Can you prove they are?

If so, why even ask the question, just present the evidence. If not, of course he can deny it if there's no evidence for it.
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Old 30th May 2023, 02:56 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
Can you prove they are?

If so, why even ask the question, just present the evidence. If not, of course he can deny it if there's no evidence for it.
Well the fact that most red states seem to be keen on expanding access to guns and diluting restrictions on purchase and carry laws seems to belie your shock/horror at my calling out Hercules56 statement.

Oh yeah...you need to have them actually verbally state it in those exact same words.
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Old 30th May 2023, 03:09 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well the fact that most red states seem to be keen on expanding access to guns and diluting restrictions on purchase and carry laws seems to belie your shock/horror at my calling out Hercules56 statement.

Oh yeah...you need to have them actually verbally state it in those exact same words.
Yep, otherwise it just looks like a leading question asked in bad faith in order to castigate another poster who's views you disagree with.
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Old 30th May 2023, 03:48 AM   #37
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https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...n-lower-courts

In the California case, U.S. District Judge George Wu, who was nominated by President George W. Bush, appeared to take a dig at how other judges are interpreting the Supreme Court’s guidance.
Quote:

The company that brought the challenge — “and apparently certain other courts” — would like to treat the Supreme Court’s decision “as a ‘word salad,’ choosing an ingredient from one side of the ‘plate’ and an entirely-separate ingredient from the other, until there is nothing left whatsoever other than an entirely-bulletproof and unrestrained Second Amendment,” Wu wrote in his ruling.
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Old 30th May 2023, 05:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Can you deny that the "second amendmendists" aren't actually working towards this?
I agree that some extremists do feel this way.
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Old 30th May 2023, 06:15 AM   #39
Susheel
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I agree that some extremists do feel this way.
"Some extremists"....however, they do seem to have a disproportionately huge influence on the conservative zeit geist.
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Old 30th May 2023, 06:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
"Some extremists"....however, they do seem to have a disproportionately huge influence on the conservative zeit geist.
You should talk to people at the Liberal Gun Club. They have views that will interest you.

https://theliberalgunclub.com
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