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Old 8th October 2023, 02:37 AM   #1
Shadowdweller
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How is Israel Going to Retaliate Against Hamas?

Just curious what you all think? Beyond the air/rocket strikes, unless you think that's all? I suspect it's going to be brutal. And indiscriminate.
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Old 8th October 2023, 03:04 AM   #2
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How? Brutally.
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Old 8th October 2023, 03:23 AM   #3
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Well, we're in agreement on that score Not to mention that Netanyahu has already promised as much. But what specifically do you think they're going to do? Invade Gaza? Or...? And...?
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Last edited by Shadowdweller; 8th October 2023 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Just curious what you all think? Beyond the air/rocket strikes, unless you think that's all? I suspect it's going to be brutal. And indiscriminate.
As the Hamas terror attack was, and continues to be, exceedingly brutal (what with the targeted attacks, abuse and killing of civilians), I agree we can expect Israel's response to be very violent, too.

But NOT indiscriminate.

Rather, it will be very discriminate.

Israel will target Hamas militants, Hamas leadership, those who make weapons for Hamas, those who shelter Hamas leadership.

Israel will NOT target civilians
Israel will NOT kidnap cilvilians
Israel will NOT torture or rape civilians
Israel will NOT rob civilians
Israel will NOT murder captured civilians nor dance on their mutilated bodies.

Since that behaviour on Hamas' part is aptly called "brutal", I think it is fair to predict that Israel's response, while violent, will not be brutal.
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:20 AM   #5
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Gaza is one of the more densely populated areas on earth. ANY military action taken there is going to result in mass civilian casualties regardless of whether one believes it to be justified or not; or what it's in response to. Nature of the beast. Hundreds are ALREADY reported dead from Israeli retaliatory strikes to the best of my personal knowledge. And I don't think they've even really gotten started. No, this doesn't make Hamas nice people by comparison; nor does it excuse or justify the kidnappings and attacks against Israel. I'm not personally interested in debating or comparing the morality of this, just curious about what people think is going to happen. Feel free to do so, of course, if that's YOUR thing.
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Last edited by Shadowdweller; 8th October 2023 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:35 AM   #6
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Who is or isn't a "civilian" will be entirely up to Israel's discretion .
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
As the Hamas terror attack was, and continues to be, exceedingly brutal (what with the targeted attacks, abuse and killing of civilians), I agree we can expect Israel's response to be very violent, too.

But NOT indiscriminate.

Rather, it will be very discriminate.

Israel will target Hamas militants, Hamas leadership, those who make weapons for Hamas, those who shelter Hamas leadership.

Israel will NOT target civilians
Israel will NOT kidnap cilvilians
Israel will NOT torture or rape civilians
Israel will NOT rob civilians
Israel will NOT murder captured civilians nor dance on their mutilated bodies.

Since that behaviour on Hamas' part is aptly called "brutal", I think it is fair to predict that Israel's response, while violent, will not be brutal.
They did request that Gazans who would rather not be a part of this conflict flee their homes and find someplace to hide away for awhile (at their many locations on the strip where Hamas is not around.) Kind of a giveaway about what's going to happen. Just go to your dad's house on the coast, right?

Not seeing a good outcome out of this.
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Gaza is one of the more densely populated areas on earth. ANY military action taken there is going to result in mass civilian casualties regardless of whether one believes it to be justified or not; or what it's in response to. Nature of the beast. Hundreds are ALREADY reported dead from Israeli retaliatory strikes to the best of my personal knowledge.
Last I read was Hamas sources claiming 313. A curiously precise number.
Is that the extent of your "personal knowledge"?
Do you know who or what those 313 are?
Hamas already admitted that one of their military leaders is among them.
Several more undreds Palestinians are probably dead by now because they attacked Israel with weapon in and were killed by defense forces.

Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
And I don't think they've even really gotten started. No, this doesn't make Hamas nice people by comparison; nor does it excuse or justify the kidnappings and attacks against Israel. I'm not personally interested in debating or comparing the morality of this, just curious about what people think is going to happen.
As Hamas is an organized armed force that illegally attacked another country, the attacked country is entirely in their right to go after said armed force with a view to beating that armed force (killing its armed fighers and its leadership).
If the leaders of the illegal attackers illegally hide their command posts in civilian buildings and among civilian neighborhoods, the fault if civilians get killed by striked against them is entirely on them, those cowardly bastards.
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by PitPat View Post
They did request that Gazans who would rather not be a part of this conflict flee their homes and find someplace to hide away for awhile (at their many locations on the strip where Hamas is not around.) Kind of a giveaway about what's going to happen. Just go to your dad's house on the coast, right?
Israel routinely employs a practice called "knocking on the roof", whereby they warn people inside a target (say, a highrise building) via radio, leaflets, even drone-assisted PA, telling them to flee; then drop a couple of grenades on the roof to signal even to those who didn't get the warning that this is no longer a safe space; and only then, when enough time has passed for evacuation, will they finally deliver the strike that destroys the target.
This works for buildings that contain a target that's a thing. A communiations installation; an ammo storage; a weapons factory; a signal intelligence facility.
Probably not employed when the target is Hamas officers.

Yes, this is all rather cynical in a place as cramped and overpopulated as the Gaza. Where anyone following Israel's advice could become a target of Hamas wrath.

Originally Posted by PitPat View Post
Not seeing a good outcome out of this.
Neither do I.
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Old 8th October 2023, 05:09 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Israel routinely employs a practice called "knocking on the roof", whereby they warn people inside a target (say, a highrise building) via radio, leaflets, even drone-assisted PA, telling them to flee; then drop a couple of grenades on the roof to signal even to those who didn't get the warning that this is no longer a safe space; and only then, when enough time has passed for evacuation, will they finally deliver the strike that destroys the target.
This works for buildings that contain a target that's a thing. A communiations installation; an ammo storage; a weapons factory; a signal intelligence facility.
Probably not employed when the target is Hamas officers.

Yes, this is all rather cynical in a place as cramped and overpopulated as the Gaza. Where anyone following Israel's advice could become a target of Hamas wrath.


Neither do I.
Don't disagree, I don't think Israel is targeting innocent Palestinians. So far they're resisting the call to arms, and are probably pissed off about it (which Fox news seems to be conflating with Hamas).

There was the IDF spokesperson who said something like "There may be some difficult things to see in the coming days, but just remember how this started." Pretty sure it wasn't about 1948.
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Old 8th October 2023, 05:19 AM   #11
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Well, the IDF has killed a journalist with no mitigating circumstances whatsoever.
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Old 8th October 2023, 05:52 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Well, the IDF has killed a journalist with no mitigating circumstances whatsoever.
Claimed with no supporting context or sources whatsoever.
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Old 8th October 2023, 06:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Claimed with no supporting context or sources whatsoever.
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/11/11754...led-a-year-ago

I thought this was common knowledge
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Old 8th October 2023, 06:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Just curious what you all think? Beyond the air/rocket strikes, unless you think that's all? I suspect it's going to be brutal. And indiscriminate.
Given the hostage situation they are going to send in ground troops, which unfortunately is probably exactly what Hamas is expecting. Remember Hamas doesn't give a damn about how many Palestinian civilians die and when this does end, they will simply retreat into the shadows and plan for the next round.
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Old 8th October 2023, 07:04 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Given the hostage situation they are going to send in ground troops, which unfortunately is probably exactly what Hamas is expecting. Remember Hamas doesn't give a damn about how many Palestinian civilians die and when this does end, they will simply retreat into the shadows and plan for the next round.
So do you think the IDF sends ground forces in, tries to free hostages, kills or captures a bunch of Hamas militants and/or destroys affiliated infrastructure and then... pulls out of Gaza again? Or...?
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Old 8th October 2023, 07:09 AM   #16
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As for Mr. I Be Not A Yahoo, he's just demonstrating what happens when a right wing jerk stays in power too long.

A very short time is too damn long.
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Old 8th October 2023, 07:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Just curious what you all think? Beyond the air/rocket strikes, unless you think that's all? I suspect it's going to be brutal. And indiscriminate.
I expect an Israeli response as brutal and indiscriminate as the Hamas provocation. The difference being the IDF will be wearing uniforms to differentiate them from unarmed civilians, and it won't be a sneak attack.
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Old 8th October 2023, 08:21 AM   #18
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You can't avoid civilian victims in Gaza. They will be warned, and they won't be the primary target. But this time, that's it.
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Old 8th October 2023, 09:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
You can't avoid civilian victims in Gaza. They will be warned, and they won't be the primary target. But this time, that's it.
Hamas wants civilian casualties, on their side. They think it makes good pro-Pal optics. They hope it will lead to a general massive Palestinian uprising, which will cause Israel to use a heavy hand, and the Arab nations will invade and destroy Israel aka "Liberate Palestine".

It won't happen. Hamas is driven by irrational and illogical reasoning, with an insane religious basis.
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Old 8th October 2023, 09:30 AM   #20
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The hostages are such a complicating factor. Last report I saw on CNN's webpage suggested that Hamas has at least 166 hostages. Some are military service members (both men and women), but they also have kids, old people, even some entire families.

And some are foreign citizens, although I don't know if that means they are exclusively foreign or dual citizen. At least one German national, for example.

And they'll distribute them all around Gaza in singles and pairs. Not keep them all lumped together where Israel can rescue them all in a single raid. And move them around often such that by the time Israel learns of some of the locations, the hostages will already have been moved to new locations.

Israel is very, very angry. This is being compared to a 9-11 level event for them. And Israel has a very effective military. Israel doesn't target Palestinian civilians and goes to some lengths to prevent that, but does accept that a fair bit of collateral damage among Palestinian civilians happens anyway due to dense living conditions and a wide grey line between combatant and non-combatant Palestinian people.

But Israel also has a history of going to great lengths to prevent harm to its own people. In 2006 Hamas captured one single Israeli soldier (Gilad Shalit). Israel raided Hamas to get him back but didn't succeed. They then spend five years negotiating with Hamas and eventually exchanged Shalit for 1000 Palestinians in Israeli custody.

So Israel is not going to go in so kinetic that they start accidentally killing hostages. And with those hostages distributed throughout the strip and being moved around, that will be a pretty severe limitation on the use of Israeli military force.


ETA To add to this: Israeli settlers in the West Bank are probably just itching to use this as an excuse to start something there. Not that the settlers ever need much motivation to be ******** in every way possible to the Palestinians around them. That could be enough motivation to draw in Hezbollah, a much more dangerous enemy than Hamas could ever be.

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Old 8th October 2023, 09:30 AM   #21
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Alas, I suspect Israel will raze Gaza almost to the ground, then occupy it permanently. Then build new Israeli settlements by the sea.
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Old 8th October 2023, 09:56 AM   #22
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Only if they want recruit 5x more of their enemies they already have. Not a friendly neighborhood.
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Old 8th October 2023, 10:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I also want to point out the cowardice of comments of political leaders about this conflict, these unrightous are of no interest for the future of your country.
You say "political" and then try to hang religious attributes on them. Perhaps you are confusing them with Hamas leaders?
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Old 8th October 2023, 10:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Muhammad Al-Deif, the Hamas military commander, called for a general uprising against Israel in a recorded message on Saturday.

“If you have a gun, get it out. This is the time to use it – get out with trucks, cars, axes. Today the best and most honorable history starts.”
Would'nt it be the time now for the regular Gaza residents to take matters in their own hands, get guns and axes and chase those Hamas ******* into the see, once and for all?!

They all know pretty well, that this barbaric attack in Israel will only lead to massive pain for everyone in Gaza.

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Old 8th October 2023, 10:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
As the Hamas terror attack was, and continues to be, exceedingly brutal (what with the targeted attacks, abuse and killing of civilians), I agree we can expect Israel's response to be very violent, too.

But NOT indiscriminate.

Rather, it will be very discriminate.

Israel will target Hamas militants, Hamas leadership, those who make weapons for Hamas, those who shelter Hamas leadership.

Israel will NOT target civilians
Israel will NOT kidnap cilvilians
Israel will NOT torture or rape civilians
Israel will NOT rob civilians
Israel will NOT murder captured civilians nor dance on their mutilated bodies
.

Since that behaviour on Hamas' part is aptly called "brutal", I think it is fair to predict that Israel's response, while violent, will not be brutal.
Given that this is contrary to Israeli tactics since 1948, I very much doubt we're going to see them be discriminate at any point in the future.
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Old 8th October 2023, 11:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You say "political" and then try to hang religious attributes on them. Perhaps you are confusing them with Hamas leaders?
I support the Palestinians because they are treated unfairly, if the Israelis were in the same situation as the Palestinians I would support the Israelis
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Old 8th October 2023, 11:27 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You say "political" and then try to hang religious attributes on them. Perhaps you are confusing them with Hamas leaders?
Are you unfamiliar with the role of religious parties in Israeli government?
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Old 8th October 2023, 12:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Are you unfamiliar with the role of religious parties in Israeli government?
I commented on Gaetan's post which made no mention of the government of Israel. If Gaetan wishes to clarify which political leaders he was referring to I may modify my comments. Until such time it is my understanding that he is referring to political leaders he has previously named - Netanyahu, Biden, Macron and Trudeau - as collectively being "unrighteous".
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Old 8th October 2023, 12:12 PM   #29
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Sorry to get all biblical, but:

For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind..

Gaza will be largely destroyed.
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Old 8th October 2023, 12:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I commented on Gaetan's post which made no mention of the government of Israel. If Gaetan wishes to clarify which political leaders he was referring to I may modify my comments. Until such time it is my understanding that he is referring to political leaders he has previously named - Netanyahu, Biden, Macron and Trudeau - as collectively being "unrighteous".
Like and many others
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Old 8th October 2023, 12:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Like and many others
No
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Old 8th October 2023, 12:40 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
We know that you are a lier working for Joe Biden and making comments on any posts.
Who's "we"?
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Old 8th October 2023, 01:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Who's "we"?
Him, and his 72 poop fairies
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Old 8th October 2023, 03:02 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/11/11754...led-a-year-ago

I thought this was common knowledge
The article does not support your claim of "no mitigating circumstances whatsoever".
I thought you were talking about a current event.
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Old 8th October 2023, 03:15 PM   #35
angrysoba
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Presumably Israel will seek revenge, deterrence and a return of their citizens taken hostage.

So, I imagine they will invade Gaza.
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Old 8th October 2023, 03:43 PM   #36
Dr.Sid
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Presumably Israel will seek revenge, deterrence and a return of their citizens taken hostage.

So, I imagine they will invade Gaza.
I also expect some moves against Iran and Lebanon. With US support, even participation. With Russia supporting Iran it already has ties to Ukraine war.
It has a potential to be big.
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Old 8th October 2023, 04:51 PM   #37
pzkpfw
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I also expect some moves against Iran and Lebanon. With US support, even participation. With Russia supporting Iran it already has ties to Ukraine war.
It has a potential to be big.
I've seen a fairly well regarded commentator on X claiming it "must have been" Russia that taught * Hamas to use the drones the way they do. And some of the jamming that was done must have used some good tech that came from somewhere.

If any link to Russia does come up, yes, it'll get messy.

Which makes me think of the right-wing-religious types in the U.S. who support Israel because they think the end times and second coming starts there. And I'm sure I've read that Russia is tied up in some of those fantasies, so they must be "happy" ...



(* personally I'm not sure anyone needed more than to watch footage from Ukraine.)
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Old 8th October 2023, 05:07 PM   #38
dudalb
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Presumably Israel will seek revenge, deterrence and a return of their citizens taken hostage.

So, I imagine they will invade Gaza.
The troops are masisng now.
Just saw footage of the hostages being parading though GAZA.
Disgusting.
What this had done is kill a lot the mianstream suppport the Palestinains were getting.
Imn the US, the divist movment is dead.
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Old 8th October 2023, 05:09 PM   #39
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I also expect some moves against Iran and Lebanon. With US support, even participation. With Russia supporting Iran it already has ties to Ukraine war.
It has a potential to be big.
If the reports that US Citiznes have been taken hostage, look to the US to get directly involved.
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Old 8th October 2023, 05:09 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Him, and his 72 poop fairies
And his brilliant idea for getting rid of money....
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