IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags biden , classified documents

Reply
Old 8th February 2024, 06:29 PM   #1
Ranb
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 10,854
Biden not likely to be charged for mishanding classified documents.

Takeaways from special counsel’s report into Biden’s handling of classified documents.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/polit...ort/index.html
Quote:
The special counsel report found that Biden willfully retained classified information, including top secret documents, and knew he was in possession of some documents as far back as 2017. He also shared some of that information with the ghostwriter of his 2017 memoir.

The special counsel decided not to charge the president in the case – primarily because he found that nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information and his cooperation with the investgation.

Yet, in a politically damaging line of reasoning, Hur wrote that one reason Biden wasn’t going to be prosecuted was because he would present to a jury as an elderly man “with a poor memory.” Biden’s lawyers objected to the description – calling it “investigative excess” and accusing Hur of flouting Justice Department rules and norms.
It's the "elderly poor old man" defense? And still fit to be nominated for president?

******* hell. Am I the only who thinks that "Biden willfully retained classified information" and "nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information" are two statements that make no sense being used together here?

I'm fairly certain I would be in jail awaiting trial if I had that stuff in my house.

The report; https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/polit...ead/index.html

Ranb

ETA; He also blames his staff. https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...-24/index.html

Last edited by Ranb; 8th February 2024 at 06:47 PM.
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 08:17 PM   #2
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,849
Without reading the 288 pages, can someone tell me if he lied about having them?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 08:26 PM   #3
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,595
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Without reading the 288 pages, can someone tell me if he lied about having them?
And hid them from the DoJ when they came asking for them back?

And then lied that they had all been returned?

And then had to be raided by the authorities to recover a big stash of stuff that he had hidden in his crappy toilet room?

And then erased the security footage of him hiding stuff before the raid?

And STILL has a possible stash hidden somewhere in his garage?

And has probably shown/given the documents to foreign nationals, some of whom work for adversaries of the USA?

And has claimed vehemently throughout that "unlimited presidential privilege" permits him to do all this?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 08:59 PM   #4
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,518
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Takeaways from special counselís report into Bidenís handling of classified documents.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/polit...ort/index.html


It's the "elderly poor old man" defense? And still fit to be nominated for president?

******* hell. Am I the only who thinks that "Biden willfully retained classified information" and "nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information" are two statements that make no sense being used together here?

I'm fairly certain I would be in jail awaiting trial if I had that stuff in my house.

The report; https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/polit...ead/index.html

Ranb

ETA; He also blames his staff. https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...-24/index.html
I think you're believing what you want to believe and disregarding the facts in the report.

Unlike Trump, Biden selected a Republican as special prosecutor to investigate him. The Republcan special prosecutor coul find no justification to prosecute Biden. But felt the need to include commentary and innuendo why Biden (who willingly allowed himself to be deposed) couldn't recall certain events and the order they happened. Keep in mind he was being asked questions on events that happened years before.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 09:25 PM   #5
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Keep in mind he was being asked questions on events that happened years before.
He didnít know when he was vice president. How long are you going to keep pretending that heís not in cognitive decline? How many imaginary encounters with dead people is it going to take before you face facts?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 09:29 PM   #6
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 35,824
So, Biden did a press conference where many of the reporters latched onto the description about a "well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory" description.

Biden said he was well-meaning and elderly but said that his memory was fine, and instead blamed his staff for not depositing the documents in the archives. He also claims that one item that he said was classified was actually "private", therefore not a breach.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


That said, I do find that when I'm listening to Biden speak that I have to extend some charity to understand what he's saying. He does seem to me to get a bit lost.

In particular, he is about to leave then someone asks him about the Gaza-Isreal war and the hostages.

I'm sorry, but his rambling talk was pretty hard to follow, with him, at one point referring to the president of "Mexico" Sisi. He then said something about how "you'll recall" there were other negotiations like the ones I had just after...er... before the Hamas attack when he talked with the Saudis and the Qataris about them recognizing Israel's right to exist and that it was based on 2 things that I am not going to go into right now but one of them was about the arch-enemy in the north west, I mean the north east....

Huh?!

ETA: But not to pick on Biden alone, here is Trump saying "Viktor Orban, has anyone ever heard of him... he's the leader of Turkey."

Jesus F Christ!
__________________
Слава Україні! **** Putin!

Last edited by angrysoba; 8th February 2024 at 09:42 PM.
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 09:51 PM   #7
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,518
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He didnít know when he was vice president. How long are you going to keep pretending that heís not in cognitive decline? How many imaginary encounters with dead people is it going to take before you face facts?
Nonsense. Hell, we're all suffering from Cognitive Decline after say the age of 6. I scored a combine 1450 SAT score out of high school and I know for a fact I'm nowhere near as quick as I was then. I have a lot more knowledge today though.

Maybe Biden isn't as sharp as he was ten or twenty years ago. He still makes Trump sound like a babbling feeble moron.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 10:09 PM   #8
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nonsense. Hell, we're all suffering from Cognitive Decline after say the age of 6. I scored a combine 1450 SAT score out of high school and I know for a fact I'm nowhere near as quick as I was then. I have a lot more knowledge today though.

Maybe Biden isn't as sharp as he was ten or twenty years ago. He still makes Trump sound like a babbling feeble moron.
Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 10:16 PM   #9
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,518
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
Nonsense.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 10:20 PM   #10
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nonsense.
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 10:45 PM   #11
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
This is all BS, distorting the facts to fit a desired narrative. Nothing suggests he losing it, especially a report that picks mistakes out of context.

Trump OTOH screws up over and over on camera, not as in the case of Biden during one or however many of interviews.
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 10:51 PM   #12
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
Some of the things you referred to have already been debunked like mixing up the name of the French Minister.

I'll wait for the dust to shake out before buying into this 'believe an assertion, not your own eyes'.
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2024, 10:58 PM   #13
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,518
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
I've been reading you peddling this pablum for a couple of years. I've listened to him speak many many times. IMV, he sounds articulate, thoughtful, kind and intelligent. His voice in particular sounds worse than it used to though.

He is not as sharp as he used to be. I give you that. Still, he comes across more intelligent than 90 percent of the population.

And he definitely sounds more intelligent than the whining Dunning Kruger orange moron.
Seriously, have you EVER EVER heard that idiot speak honestly or intelligently about foreign policy or economics?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 12:44 AM   #14
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 11,634
You couldn't ask for a better demonstration of the fact that even his "defenders" know how far gone he is than the fact that they keep falling back to "but Trump".
Delvo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 01:06 AM   #15
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,707
I know, isn't it just so strange that when someone is compared to the accepted greatest rival, they keep getting compared to that rival?
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 08:06 AM   #16
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 33,518
Trump appears to be who he is running against. That doesn't make either of them the GOAT. But this isn't an athletic event. I don't need the President to be great. I need him to be wise, have good people around him. Care about others. Biden actually is working on our behalf. Even those who voted for Trump

Trump is a criminal. A straight up con man. A lying, stealing selfish, self centered moron who has damaged this country far worse than I thought a President could. He leads a cult of stupid deluded jerks to what end? To help Trump.

I could compare Biden to the Florida or Texas dictators. But they're not running.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 08:14 AM   #17
ahhell
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,535
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Without reading the 288 pages, can someone tell me if he lied about having them?
The answer seems to be yes but only in public, not under oath or anything.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/09/p...ion/index.html
Mostly easily explained by actually forgetting, which is quite reasonable even if he wasn't in clear cognitive decline.


It seems as though the real legal question is whether he did it on purpose and the report seems to say, "we think so but we can't prove so no charges."

There also seems to be a lot of prejudicial language regarding Biden's memory which seems unnecessary and makes think they team was a tad bit biased.

"But trump" is unfortunately a totally valid defense of Biden. Trum did the same thing but in spades and clearly on purpose and refused to cooperate with the feds. Biden, may have done it on purpose but totally cooperated with handing them over.

ETA: Biden supporters are clearly in denial of his clear decline on the other hand, still better than Trump, less clear decline but coming from a much worse place to start.

Last edited by ahhell; 9th February 2024 at 08:20 AM.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 08:17 AM   #18
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 16,261
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's nonsense? Are you unaware that those things happened? Or are you seriously claiming they don't mean anything? I can help you correct the former, I can do nothing for you if you suffer the latter.
Iím not too worried about an 81 year-old man being forgetful on occasion. Youíll need to do a lot more heavy lifting than your usual bare assertions to turn that into cognitive decline.

Iíll be over here holding my breath for your detailed analysis complete with cites from relevant authorities.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 08:40 AM   #19
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Iím not too worried about an 81 year-old man being forgetful on occasion.
He's forgetful about some pretty important things on a regular basis.

Quote:
Iíll be over here holding my breath for your detailed analysis complete with cites from relevant authorities.
I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.

The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 08:41 AM   #20
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The old Same place
Posts: 11,098
Originally Posted by Ziggaraut
I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.

The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
At least he isnít a thin-skinned narcissist like Obama, amirite?
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

Last edited by Regnad Kcin; 9th February 2024 at 08:44 AM.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 09:47 AM   #21
ahhell
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,535
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Dude. He imagines meeting people who are dead. He confused Mexico and Egypt. He isn't just slower, he's losing it. The signs are obvious.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He didnít know when he was vice president. How long are you going to keep pretending that heís not in cognitive decline? How many imaginary encounters with dead people is it going to take before you face facts?
Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.

In his press conference on this report he appeared to confuse who was president of Mexico vs Egypt. He has recently claimed to have talked to Francsois Mitterrand and Helmut Kohl, the report seems to say that he at one point forgot that he was VP.

I'm still going to vote for him, but I'm not going to pretend he's large and incharge.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 09:49 AM   #22
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 8,812
Eight years of Eisenhower, during which I grew from a boy to a young man, left a lot of Americans pretty damn blasť about brain-challenged politicians.

Me? I wouldn't trade one dribbling Biden for ten garbling Ikes.

#Zig! Goddammit, be honest and open about your ambitions! Let 'em surge! Announce your candidacy for US Prexy! Vote for the Black Sun Party, everybody! You'll be fairly glad you did!
__________________
When I spoke out against the bullies, they called me woke.

When I lashed them with a length of chain, they called me sir.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 09:51 AM   #23
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 68,577
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.

In his press conference on this report he appeared to confuse who was president of Mexico vs Egypt. He has recently claimed to have talked to Francsois Mitterrand and Helmut Kohl, the report seems to say that he at one point forgot that he was VP.

I'm still going to vote for him, but I'm not going to pretend he's large and incharge.
Ditto.

We didn't get dealt a great hand but a nine is still better than a two so we're going to have to play it.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 09:53 AM   #24
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,445
There is an important and nuanced discussion to be had regarding Biden's age and physical fitness. Right-wingers aren't part of it.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:16 AM   #25
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
There is an important and nuanced discussion to be had regarding Biden's age and physical fitness. Right-wingers aren't part of it.
Apparently left-wingers aren't either.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:22 AM   #26
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.
Would you vote for him against another democrat primary candidate?

I can't help but wonder if having Biden do that disastrous press conference last night was a way to try to push him out the door now, before it's too late.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:39 AM   #27
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
You couldn't ask for a better demonstration of the fact that even his "defenders" know how far gone he is than the fact that they keep falling back to "but Trump".
Am I one of the "defenders" you speak of? I've not fallen back on "but Trump".


I'm saying I've seen a lot of Biden in the last few months. He's not the elderly forgetful man described by the Trump supporting hack.


Listen to Biden's response. It was a 5 hour interview with the special council covering stuff from 30 years ago while Biden took time out from handling the acute crisis in Israel.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 9th February 2024 at 10:43 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:41 AM   #28
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Am I one of the "defenders" you speak of? I've not fallen back on "but Trump".


I'm saying I've seen a lot of Biden in the last few months. He's not the elderly forgetful man described by the Trump supporting hack.
Are you saying that he's not an elderly forgetful man at all?

Because that's the only justification given for not pressing charges.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:47 AM   #29
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
... ETA: Biden supporters are clearly in denial of his clear decline on the other hand, still better than Trump, less clear decline but coming from a much worse place to start.
Other than this biased report with gratuitous BS about Biden's supposed significant mental decline do you have any corroborating evidence supporting these few lines of criticism?
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:51 AM   #30
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Other than this biased report with gratuitous BS about Biden's supposed significant mental decline do you have any corroborating evidence supporting these few lines of criticism?
You mean aside from all the video examples of him screwing things up? Including in a press conference intended to address the fact that he screws things up?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:53 AM   #31
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He's forgetful about some pretty important things on a regular basis.
Example preferably with a citation?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.
Other than your absurd claim this happens on a regular basis, got a citation?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
Avoid the obvious you cannot corroborate?
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 10:57 AM   #32
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Would you vote for him against another democrat primary candidate?
Absolutely. I haven't seen any better candidate so far.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I can't help but wonder if having Biden do that disastrous press conference last night was a way to try to push him out the door now, before it's too late.


How was it disastrous? Did you watch a different one than I did?
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:01 AM   #33
zorro99
Graduate Poster
 
zorro99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,336
If Biden were running against anybody else, I probably wouldn’t for him. But he’s running against Trump. It’s an easy choice for me.
__________________
There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact.
zorro99 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:03 AM   #34
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 20,519
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
There is an important and nuanced discussion to be had regarding Biden's age and physical fitness. Right-wingers aren't part of it.
It's a little late for nuance; a contingent of Democratic leaders needs to let him know that it's time for the pasture.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:03 AM   #35
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You mean aside from all the video examples of him screwing things up? Including in a press conference intended to address the fact that he screws things up?
No specifics, no citations? This is all you have?

This is not a memory issue it's an insignificant gaffe:
Quote:
The US president referenced the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, saying: “The president of Mexico did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him... I talked to Bibi [Benjamin Netanyahu] to open the gate on the Israeli side."
It's clear he meant Israel given he mentioned Bibi in the next sentence. It's especially clear by the fact there are current ongoing issues with illegal immigration coming from Mexico. It's easy to mix the countries up in a friggin sentence.

Compare that to Trump mixing up Haley with Pelosi over and over and over. And thinking the picture of Carroll was that of Maples? He affirmed it was Maples when asked again.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 9th February 2024 at 11:07 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:09 AM   #36
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,248
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It's a little late for nuance; a contingent of Democratic leaders needs to let him know that it's time for the pasture.
Because you buy the false narrative or because you don't want to see a viable Democratic candidate?
Skeptic Ginger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:12 AM   #37
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Example preferably with a citation?
The special counsel report, for one. But here's a couple recent examples.

Binden mixed up Mexico with Egypt.

Biden thinks he met a dead person.

There are plenty more. Hell, even ignoring the words, just listen to his cadence. It's stumbling, it's uncertain, he mumbles all the time, he has to pause to come up with the right words. This is a dramatic decline from how he used to speak.

And everyone can see it, even if not everyone can acknowledge it.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:16 AM   #38
Donal
Philosopher
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,445
Like I said, right-wingers aren't part of it.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:17 AM   #39
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's clear he meant Israel given he mentioned Bibi in the next sentence.
No. He meant Egypt. Watch the clip I posted above.

Quote:
It's especially clear by the fact there are current ongoing issues with illegal immigration coming from Mexico. It's easy to mix the countries up in a friggin sentence.
It's easy to confuse Mexico with Egypt? When talking about the situation in Gaza?

Quote:
Compare that to Trump
This thread isn't about Trump, it's about Biden. Start your own Trump thread if you want to talk about Trump's mental state, or use one of the existing ones.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th February 2024, 11:18 AM   #40
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,167
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Like I said, right-wingers aren't part of it.
You say there's a serious conversation to be had, but you aren't having it. Who is?
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:44 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.