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Old 9th February 2024, 11:25 AM   #41
Sherkeu
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WH Counsel joining a delayed KJP briefing today.... should start in 5 minutes.. 1:30p ET

eta: Im watching it here:
https://thehill.com/homenews/4458155...ry-watch-live/


"BREAKING: In a last minute change to the White House daily schedule, Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre will now be joined by Spokesman for the White House Counsel’s Office, Ian Sams, at the 1:30pm ET press briefing."

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Old 9th February 2024, 11:33 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Apparently left-wingers aren't either.
As we like to say in my bowling league: “Spare me!”
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:34 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Pretty much all of this is actually true but I'm still going to vote for him.

In his press conference on this report he appeared to confuse who was president of Mexico vs Egypt. He has recently claimed to have talked to Francsois Mitterrand and Helmut Kohl, the report seems to say that he at one point forgot that he was VP.

I'm still going to vote for him, but I'm not going to pretend he's large and incharge.
I am a huge history buff. I am particularly interested in the Presidency. Who they were and what they did in office. I've come to the conclusion that there are lots of intangibles that contribute to who they are and what they accomplished. It isn't so much who the president was but what they're presidency or administration was. And it also very much matters whether they had a cooperative Congress that worked with them.

Seriously, what does it matter what a President is like? What is actually important is what a President and his administration do and stand for.

Trump's administration was about Trump and little else. It was based on lies, corruption and grift. Trump appointed corrupt judges to do his bidding. Justices that lied to Congress and then overturned Roe v Wade. A President who said he would replace the Affordable Care Act and never came close to creating something better. A President who said he would build a wall on the Southern border and make Mexico pay for it. Then did neither. Then told the Mexican President that Mexico wouldn't actually have to pay for it just that the Mexican President should say they.
A President who said he would be the Infrastructure President and wasn't.
A President who used the IRS to attack his opponents.
A President who withheld aid to Ukraine and demanded that the Ukraine investigate his political rival or at least announce they were.
A President who totally mishandled COVID.
A President who said before the election that he wouldn't accept the results of the election if they showed that his opponent won. And then didn’t.
Then he launched a violent attack to overthrow democracy.

Those are just the highlights. The list goes on and on.

In comparison, Biden's administration has actually worked to solve actual problems. Including actually doing something about infrastructure.
It didn’t capitulate and appease Putin.
It actually worked to solve the problems on the Southern border.

Trump as President was a wrecking ball. He never built a damn thing.

Even if Biden is getting older, he still has made a pretty good President. I see no reason to think that will change.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:37 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
******* hell. Am I the only who thinks that "Biden willfully retained classified information" and "nothing proved a willful intent by Biden to illegally hold onto classified information" are two statements that make no sense being used together here?
It means, 'I've got nothing but want to use my position to damage Biden more than the basic facts do.'

That's not to excuse Biden completely, but it's speaking beyond the investigation based on things other than evidence. Not the best look for a special prosecutor.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:38 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This thread isn't about Trump, it's about Biden. Start your own Trump thread if you want to talk about Trump's mental state, or use one of the existing ones.
It's tough to ignore Trumps mental issues though. If we prevent Biden from becoming President again, then we get Trump. Focusing on one of two candidates mental decline when the other candidate is having the exact same issues does not really track either way.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:47 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
It's tough to ignore Trumps mental issues though.
I'm not asking you to ignore them. I'm asking you to discuss them in the appropriate thread. This isn't the appropriate thread.

Quote:
If we prevent Biden from becoming President again, then we get Trump.
The Democratic primaries aren't over yet. Nor is this thread about the election.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:49 AM   #47
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Hey! Remember when George Bush said he and Reagan had sex?
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He's forgetful about some pretty important things on a regular basis.


I don't need a "relevant authority" to know that when Biden mixes up Egypt and Mexico, that's not a good sign. And it's not a one-off. He does this on the regular. This isn't some esoteric subject requiring arcane knowledge and data analysis to figure out.

The excuses being thrown around here to avoid the obvious are really something.
I’m not offering excuses. I’m refuting bad faith assertions from someone who doesn’t express similar reservations about Trump and has floated election denial conspiracy theories. Nothing you opine about Biden or politics in general can be taken seriously.
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Old 9th February 2024, 12:34 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm not asking you to ignore them. I'm asking you to discuss them in the appropriate thread. This isn't the appropriate thread.
If I ask you, "Given his cognitive decline in recent years, should Joe Biden serve another term as President?", your answer would probably be "No". But there are some pretty obvious follow up questions that come after that answer. You should not be surprised if someone asks them. You are not a Republican House member trying to select the next Speaker of the House after all.
Quote:
The Democratic primaries aren't over yet. Nor is this thread about the election.
Ah, another vote for Johnny Unbeatable...
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Old 9th February 2024, 12:39 PM   #50
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The problem you are having Zig (besides what was already mentioned) is these were gaffes in a speech, not true senile confusion.

In Trump's case, who knows. He never admits even an obvious mistake and in the case of mixing up Haley with Pelosi, it was part of a lie about offering 10K soldiers to help with the Jan 6 invasion of the capitol. He often plugs Obama into his fantasies and we all know that's because he wants revenge because Obama made a joke about Trump.

Trump is obsessed with imagining he has won an election against Obama. He's obsessed with the 2020 election being stolen because if it wasn't then Trump lost and he can't stand that. He's obsessed with blaming someone else for his trying to stay in power in 2020 with the component he has adoring masses fighting for his innocence. He often repeats "I did nothing wrong".

The point being it's hard to tease out what is Trump showing signs of senility and what is Trump expressing symptoms of his malignant narcissism.

Does Biden believe the gaffes he made or were they simply gaffes?
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Old 9th February 2024, 01:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think you're believing what you want to believe and disregarding the facts in the report.

Unlike Trump, Biden selected a Republican as special prosecutor to investigate him. The Republcan special prosecutor coul find no justification to prosecute Biden. But felt the need to include commentary and innuendo why Biden (who willingly allowed himself to be deposed) couldn't recall certain events and the order they happened. Keep in mind he was being asked questions on events that happened years before.
It seems that Biden is going to get away with it by using the "elderly" defense. Pence used the "opps" defense. Trump is using the especially insane "those are mine" defense. All are allowed to wait outside of jail for the authorities to decide what to do.

I doubt I would get the same kind of treatment had I done what they did while I was in the US Navy.
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Old 9th February 2024, 01:02 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It means, 'I've got nothing but want to use my position to damage Biden more than the basic facts do.'

That's not to excuse Biden completely, but it's speaking beyond the investigation based on things other than evidence. Not the best look for a special prosecutor.
The spec pros is just another graduate of GQP Sniper School. Those boys are the only sharpshooter in history to use blunderbusses.
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Old 9th February 2024, 01:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Because you buy the false narrative or because you don't want to see a viable Democratic candidate?
I want to see a candidate who can beat Trump like a drum, and I am concerned that Biden is not that guy. Plus I think a lot of the problems that Biden is facing (even beyond the memory problems) are particular to him--Israel, the border, inflation, etc.
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Old 9th February 2024, 01:28 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It seems that Biden is going to get away with it by using the "elderly" defense. Pence used the "opps" defense. Trump is using the especially insane "those are mine" defense. All are allowed to wait outside of jail for the authorities to decide what to do.

I doubt I would get the same kind of treatment had I done what they did while I was in the US Navy.
Nonsense.

That the very political special counsel or you might describe the "I don't recall" answer as an "elderly defense" doesn't make it so. Saying "I don't recall," when you do is perjury, But saying "I don't recall" when one doesn't remember or is even mildly unsure is the appropriate answer. It would be the appropriate answer whether you were eighteen or eighty. And that is what your attorney would tell you.

I personally don't trust memories whether they are my own or others. They are too easily corrupted by later events. And this has little or nothing to do with age.
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Old 9th February 2024, 01:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I want to see a candidate who can beat Trump like a drum, and I am concerned that Biden is not that guy. Plus I think a lot of the problems that Biden is facing (even beyond the memory problems) are particular to him--Israel, the border, inflation, etc.
I would like a candidate who can easily beat Trump too. But I don't think one is necessarily out there. Frankly, I think Biden can beat Trump like a drum. If you think Biden's age is a concern, choosing another elderly man isn't the answer.

I'm more worried that he might not be able to beat Haley if the GOP switches.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I am a huge history buff. I am particularly interested in the Presidency. Who they were and what they did in office. I've come to the conclusion that there are lots of intangibles that contribute to who they are and what they accomplished. It isn't so much who the president was but what they're presidency or administration was. And it also very much matters whether they had a cooperative Congress that worked with them.

Seriously, what does it matter what a President is like? What is actually important is what a President and his administration do and stand for.

Trump's administration was about Trump and little else. It was based on lies, corruption and grift. Trump appointed corrupt judges to do his bidding. Justices that lied to Congress and then overturned Roe v Wade. A President who said he would replace the Affordable Care Act and never came close to creating something better. A President who said he would build a wall on the Southern border and make Mexico pay for it. Then did neither. Then told the Mexican President that Mexico wouldn't actually have to pay for it just that the Mexican President should say they.
A President who said he would be the Infrastructure President and wasn't.
A President who used the IRS to attack his opponents.
A President who withheld aid to Ukraine and demanded that the Ukraine investigate his political rival or at least announce they were.
A President who totally mishandled COVID.
A President who said before the election that he wouldn't accept the results of the election if they showed that his opponent won. And then didn’t.
Then he launched a violent attack to overthrow democracy.

Those are just the highlights. The list goes on and on.

In comparison, Biden's administration has actually worked to solve actual problems. Including actually doing something about infrastructure.
It didn’t capitulate and appease Putin.
It actually worked to solve the problems on the Southern border.

Trump as President was a wrecking ball. He never built a damn thing.

Even if Biden is getting older, he still has made a pretty good President. I see no reason to think that will change.
You are absolutely correct about Trump, except his judges being corrupt, they've mostly ruled against him, which is an odd sort of corruption.

You are also wrong and naive about Biden.

Especially on the border, the administration has spent three years ignoring the border. That's as much a fantasy as the notion that he isn't senile. I'm still voting for biden though.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:02 PM   #57
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WTF? from the briefing on the document report:

WH Counsel Spokesperson Ian Sams stressed that Biden was asked to recollect events during an extremely stressful time in the 2 days after the Oct 7 attacks. I totally agree with that. Huge world changing fuse-lighting event, right?

Biden voluntarily spent over 5 hours over those 2 days answering questions about old files- away from the WH.

Today, WH Counsel tried to spin this compliance as a good thing for cooperating as scheduled.
I think it is a terrible decision for the supposed leader of the free world.

Another WTF?:
This Ian guy they sent out from the WH Counsel office to talk about this legal case is NOT a lawyer. DC is crawling with lawyers and they send out someone who isnt? Is this to message 'not a big deal to have a real lawyer' speak to this legal issue, or are they just stupid?

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Old 9th February 2024, 02:05 PM   #58
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the gop isn't switching anymore than the dems are
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:07 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Especially on the border, the administration has spent three years ignoring the border. That's as much a fantasy as the notion that he isn't senile. I'm still voting for biden though.
i guess that was before the gop shot themselves in the foot on one of their few legitimate talking points and tanked the border deal on trump's order.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:08 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
You are absolutely correct about Trump, except his judges being corrupt, they've mostly ruled against him, which is an odd sort of corruption.
Aileen Cannon doesn't exist in your world?
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:26 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It seems that Biden is going to get away with it by using the "elderly" defense. Pence used the "opps" defense. Trump is using the especially insane "those are mine" defense. All are allowed to wait outside of jail for the authorities to decide what to do.

I doubt I would get the same kind of treatment had I done what they did while I was in the US Navy.
I’m not aware that Biden used the “elderly defense”. Can you please cite either him or someone representing making that claim?
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:38 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
WTF? from the briefing on the document report:

WH Counsel Spokesperson Ian Sams stressed that Biden was asked to recollect events during an extremely stressful time in the 2 days after the Oct 7 attacks. I totally agree with that. Huge world changing fuse-lighting event, right?

Biden voluntarily spent over 5 hours over those 2 days answering questions about old files- away from the WH.

Today, WH Counsel tried to spin this compliance as a good thing for cooperating as scheduled.
I think it is a terrible decision for the supposed leader of the free world.

Another WTF?:
This Ian guy they sent out from the WH Counsel office to talk about this legal case is NOT a lawyer. DC is crawling with lawyers and they send out someone who isnt? Is this to message 'not a big deal to have a real lawyer' speak to this legal issue, or are they just stupid?
These both seem to be weird criticisms. If he complied as scheduled that is actually a good thing. If he had decided to reschedule or not comply in some way then it would of course be used against him. And then the flak is not a lawyer?! Oh the humanity!

Anyway, I’ve already said that Biden is indeed painful to watch when he calls Sisi the president of Mexico (SG, it doesn’t help matters when you come late to the party and still try to spin things the wrong way by claiming he obviously meant Israel, because he didn’t! He meant Egypt!). Trump is far worse in every way, but I would be really surprised if Biden does much campaigning or extended interviews. Although Trump has been skipping the primary debates, I wonder what would happen if he challenged Biden to presidential debates. Trump would be his usually blistering self, I expect, and would probably make a million errors and BS his way through any debates, but in debates that tends to matter far less than the impression you give by your manner of speech. Would anyone be confident of a Biden-Trump debate now?
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
WTF? from the briefing on the document report:

WH Counsel Spokesperson Ian Sams stressed that Biden was asked to recollect events during an extremely stressful time in the 2 days after the Oct 7 attacks. I totally agree with that. Huge world changing fuse-lighting event, right?
Biden voluntarily spent over 5 hours over those 2 days answering questions about old files- away from the WH.
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Today, WH Counsel tried to spin this compliance as a good thing for cooperating as scheduled.
I think it is a terrible decision for the supposed leader of the free world.
It showed that Biden knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Biden cooperating with a Special counsel demonstrates that he has nothing to hide and that he believes in the need for transparency in government. He showed the world how it is supposed to work. That you could even think that this was a terrible decision makes me wonder about your decision process. Not his.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:46 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Biden voluntarily spent over 5 hours over those 2 days answering questions about old files- away from the WH.

Today, WH Counsel tried to spin this compliance as a good thing for cooperating as scheduled.
I think it is a terrible decision for the supposed leader of the free world.
It showed that Biden knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Biden cooperating with a Special counsel demonstrates that he has nothing to hide and that he believes in the need for transparency in government. He showed the world how it is supposed to work. That you could even think that this was a terrible decision makes me wonder about your decision process. Not his.[/quote]

Yes, Sherkeu is barking up the wrong tree by pretending that Biden’s compliance is a bad thing. The complete lack of compliance is what Trump is in trouble for, and rightly so. The problem for Trump’s supporters is that Biden works in good faith while the vile orange toad gets much of his popularity simply by being as despicable as everyone thinks he is. The Trump supporters actually like that.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I’m not aware that Biden used the “elderly defense”. Can you please cite either him or someone representing making that claim?
From the link I posted;
Quote:
Yet, in a politically damaging line of reasoning, Hur wrote that one reason Biden wasn’t going to be prosecuted was because he would present to a jury as an elderly man “with a poor memory.”
While Biden is not using it, it is being used as an excuse for not prosecuting him.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
You are absolutely correct about Trump, except his judges being corrupt, they've mostly ruled against him, which is an odd sort of corruption.

You are also wrong and naive about Biden.

Especially on the border, the administration has spent three years ignoring the border. That's as much a fantasy as the notion that he isn't senile. I'm still voting for biden though.
Totally false. And he's not senile either.

I think it's pretty ignorant suggesting that Biden has ignored the Southern border during those years. And it is highly telling that after 18 months of working on and finally agreeing to bipartisan legislation that would address the problems, it is the Republicans that walked away from it. And why? Because big talk do nothing Trump decided he needed to run on this issue. A problem Trump did nothing about other than pull stupid stunts and make racist xenophobic speeches while he was in office.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:51 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nonsense.

That the very political special counsel or you might describe the "I don't recall" answer as an "elderly defense" doesn't make it so. Saying "I don't recall," when you do is perjury, But saying "I don't recall" when one doesn't remember or is even mildly unsure is the appropriate answer. It would be the appropriate answer whether you were eighteen or eighty. And that is what your attorney would tell you.

I personally don't trust memories whether they are my own or others. They are too easily corrupted by later events. And this has little or nothing to do with age.
Do you think they're getting treated like the little people or getting preferential treatment?
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:51 PM   #68
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haha yeah sounds like he did a really super serious investigation
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:51 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think it's pretty ignorant suggesting that Biden has ignored the Southern border during those years.
You're right. Putting Harris in charge of it proved just how important a priority it was.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:52 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
From the link I posted;


While Biden is not using it, it is being used as an excuse for not prosecuting him.
I don’t think so. “Excuse” is not the right word. Clearly Hur was using the terms “well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory” as an insult, not an excuse. Instead, presumably they could not find evidence of intent to mishandle documents. But they were not looking for ways to excuse him.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:55 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think it's pretty ignorant suggesting that Biden has ignored the Southern border during those years.
We all know if Trump was president it wouldn't have happened. Biden - or least his handlers in this sequel to Weekend at Bernie's - made a policy choice for an open boarder. One of his first acts as president was to revoke Trump executive orders on immigration enforcement.
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:00 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I would like a candidate who can easily beat Trump too. But I don't think one is necessarily out there. Frankly, I think Biden can beat Trump like a drum. If you think Biden's age is a concern, choosing another elderly man isn't the answer.

I'm more worried that he might not be able to beat Haley if the GOP switches.
So Trump is not some unique threat to democracy?
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think it's pretty ignorant suggesting that Biden has ignored the Southern border during those years.
True that. He assigned the job to Kamala and she's done nothing about it/
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:15 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
True that. He assigned the job to Kamala and she's done nothing about it/
You mean spending 18 months working with Republicans on legislation is nothing?

Or did you expect Harris and Biden to strap firearms to their sides and go shoot some migrant workers? Or maybe the Trump way and cage their children? Or maybe they should have added a few thousand feet to a useless fence that stopped no one?
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:17 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You mean spending 18 months working with Republicans on legislation is nothing?

Or did you expect Harris and Biden to strap firearms to their sides and go shoot some migrant workers? Or maybe the Trump way and cage their children? Or maybe they should have added a few thousand feet to a useless fence that stopped no one?
Good grief. How about enforce the law and use the authority he already had?
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:20 PM   #76
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
Good grief. How about enforce the law and use the authority he already had?
They did.
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:23 PM   #77
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Why do the Republicans use projection to attack Democrats?

Because they have nothing else to offer.
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:23 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It showed that Biden knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Biden cooperating with a Special counsel demonstrates that he has nothing to hide and that he believes in the need for transparency in government. He showed the world how it is supposed to work. That you could even think that this was a terrible decision makes me wonder about your decision process. Not his.
Quote:
acbytesla: Yes, Sherkeu is barking up the wrong tree by pretending that Biden’s compliance is a bad thing. The complete lack of compliance is what Trump is in trouble for, and rightly so. The problem for Trump’s supporters is that Biden works in good faith while the vile orange toad gets much of his popularity simply by being as despicable as everyone thinks he is. The Trump supporters actually like that.
Oct 7 was a major world event in a precarious area for US trade and security interests. I thought it was a very big deal.

What if it had been "China fires rockets into Taiwan and takes over global shipping lanes!!"

Then should Biden reschedule? or keep his good faith commitments?

What do you think?

ETA:
Inspired by an earthquake I just felt here (always weird)...
What if the San Andreas fault has the "Big One" and Southern California and about 20 million people, including the ports are all in disarray.
Wouldn't it be weird if he chose not to delay the voluntary meetings for that?

Last edited by Sherkeu; 9th February 2024 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:28 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They did.
Dude, really?

Biden Signs Executive Orders Reversing Trump Immigration Policies
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Old 9th February 2024, 03:31 PM   #80
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
So Trump is not some unique threat to democracy?
Yes he is.

But I think that Trump being the Republican standard bearer will result in damaging the nation or doing substantial damage to the Republican party. In fact, I'm convinced that at the leaders of the Democratic party absolutely love the idea of running against Trump and MAGA.
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