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Old 9th February 2024, 08:36 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
...Can you seriously not recognize the difference?
I thought I made it clear that I was disappointed with how these politicians are getting what is likely better treatment than I would get for doing the same thing. I know what Trump did was far worse than what Biden did.
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Old 9th February 2024, 09:43 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I thought I made it clear that I was disappointed with how these politicians are getting what is likely better treatment than I would get for doing the same thing. I know what Trump did was far worse than what Biden did.
So are you annoyed the boss can do stuff you would not be legally allowed to do?

I'm trying to put your complaint into perspective.
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Old 9th February 2024, 10:13 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Refugees are not illegal immigrants. They are here and need employment like anyone else. It would be just as wrong to discriminate against them as it would be to discriminate against anyone else.
Except spacex cannot hire noncitizens, legal or not, because their work has applicability to nuclear weapons and is therefore tightly restricted.
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Old 9th February 2024, 10:52 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So are you annoyed the boss can do stuff you would not be legally allowed to do?

I'm trying to put your complaint into perspective.
Trump, Pence and Biden were not my bosses when they were mishandling classified documents. Trump and Pence were found with the documents after they left office. Biden was retaining them after he was no longer VP.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:25 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Trump, Pence and Biden were not my bosses when they were mishandling classified documents. Trump and Pence were found with the documents after they left office. Biden was retaining them after he was no longer VP.
You left the piece out of where you fit in.
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Old 10th February 2024, 12:15 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I thought I made it clear that I was disappointed with how these politicians are getting what is likely better treatment than I would get for doing the same thing. I know what Trump did was far worse than what Biden did.
I checked the Trump Document indictment thread. Zero posts from you expressing this deeply held conviction. But for some mysterious reason when it’s about Biden, the urge strikes you to start a thread about it. But hey, at least you paid lip service to criticizing Trump so no one will think you have an agenda.
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Old 10th February 2024, 01:05 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Except spacex cannot hire noncitizens, legal or not, because their work has applicability to nuclear weapons and is therefore tightly restricted.
Is that in the law? And what does that mean? Applicable to nuclear weapons? That is incredibly vague. Anything having to to with anything might be applicable to nuclear weapons.

I'm not sure exactly what the law says but I know of lots of non-US citizens that work on rockets and the U.S. space program. In fact a friend of mine who is a French national worked here in Seattle on the JWST for more than a decade. He is not a US citizen.
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Old 10th February 2024, 05:11 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is that in the law? And what does that mean? Applicable to nuclear weapons? That is incredibly vague. Anything having to to with anything might be applicable to nuclear weapons.
Yes, it's the law. And I would have thought the applicability was obvious: if you can launch something into orbit, you can launch an ICBM.

Quote:
In fact a friend of mine who is a French national worked here in Seattle on the JWST for more than a decade. He is not a US citizen.
Most of the JWST work has nothing to do with rockets.
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Old 10th February 2024, 05:43 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Cry me a river.

You still think you would get this kind of preferential treatment if you mishandled classified documents by bringing them to your unsecured home?
This sounds like those righties who scream that if they or anyone else had issues with their taxes like Hunter Biden they would be tossed into prison forever.

Which simply isn't true.
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Old 10th February 2024, 05:51 AM   #130
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I doubt every job at SpaceX involves working with rocketry.
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Old 10th February 2024, 07:22 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yes, it's the law. And I would have thought the applicability was obvious: if you can launch something into orbit, you can launch an ICBM.
.
The law prohibits non citizens from holding security clearances. It doesn’t prevent their being hired.
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Old 10th February 2024, 07:28 AM   #132
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The main takeaway from the Hur report were the distinctions between Trump’s and Biden’s cases. Trump lied about taking documents and tried destroying evidence. Biden did not. It also noted that Biden is 81 which is not news.
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Old 10th February 2024, 07:59 AM   #133
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Attorney investigating Biden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_K._Hur

is left over from Trump era. He wrote a document saying Biden is feeble minded. Therefore any Biden VP documents he kept are...not his fault. And he would be unable to testify anything more to a jury.

Discussion
https://www.threads.net/@weissmann11...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
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Old 10th February 2024, 08:14 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Attorney investigating Biden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_K._Hur

is left over from Trump era. He wrote a document saying Biden is feeble minded. Therefore any Biden VP documents he kept are...not his fault. And he would be unable to testify anything more to a jury.

Discussion
https://www.threads.net/@weissmann11...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Yeah, he was appointed by the Biden DOJ so there would be no sense of impropriety. But there was no way he could make a case out of this. So he took some petty shots when leaving. He is his Master's Dog.
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Old 10th February 2024, 09:01 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
The law prohibits non citizens from holding security clearances. It doesnít prevent their being hired.
They can't do the work without security clearances. You expect SpaceX to hire people to twiddle their thumbs doing nothing?
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Old 10th February 2024, 09:02 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
I doubt every job at SpaceX involves working with rocketry.
Most of it probably does. A lot of the non-rocket work probably gets done by contractors, not employees.
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Old 10th February 2024, 10:31 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yes, it's the law. And I would have thought the applicability was obvious: if you can launch something into orbit, you can launch an ICBM.

Most of the JWST work has nothing to do with rockets.
One could easily argue it could be applicable to nuclear weapons. But let's set that aside.

I'm sure that not every job at Space X requires a security clearance. I'd even bet you that most do not.

So I guess the pertinent question is do you understand the specifics of the case?

While of course I might be wrong, I doubt the US government would tell Space-X that it had to consider non-citizens for jobs that require security clearances. Or maybe Space-X overused the need for possible security clearances?

But this gets off the point. Refugees are not illegal immigrants. They are here by permission. They need to work. We want them to work. You want them to work.
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Old 10th February 2024, 10:34 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I checked the Trump Document indictment thread. Zero posts from you expressing this deeply held conviction. But for some mysterious reason when it’s about Biden, the urge strikes you to start a thread about it. But hey, at least you paid lip service to criticizing Trump so no one will think you have an agenda.
Trump is generally held in such contempt by this forum, what else could I add that someone else has not yet said about that disgusting lump of lard? Is preaching the the choir that important here?

As far as I can recall, I've never had a kind word for Trump here. Are you suggesting that I should be supporting that lying, rapey, gun grabbing SOB?

ETA; I did a search on Trump associated with my posts. 275 results were returned, none of them complementary, some are derogatory. I normally enjoy taking any chance to express my displeasure towards Trump.

Last edited by Ranb; 10th February 2024 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 10th February 2024, 10:50 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Most of it probably does. A lot of the non-rocket work probably gets done by contractors, not employees.
Most of it does? How did you determine that? Do you know the percentage of Space-X employees that have security clearances?

It costs between $5,410 and $15,000 for a Tier 5 (Top Secret) clearance investigation. It costs $420 for a Tier 3 investigation(Secret). My understanding is that investigations are required every 5 to 7 years.

If the entire work force is required to obtain security clearances it would cost Space-X between five million and a one hundred and ninety five million dollars.
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Old 10th February 2024, 04:59 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Trump is generally held in such contempt by this forum, what else could I add that someone else has not yet said about that disgusting lump of lard? Is preaching the the choir that important here?
The point isn't to preach to the choir. The point is to prove tribal allegiance. Criticizing Biden puts that allegiance in doubt.
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Old 10th February 2024, 07:43 PM   #141
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I have no allegiance to any politician. I think it is foolhardy.
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Old 11th February 2024, 04:55 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The point isn't to preach to the choir. The point is to prove tribal allegiance. Criticizing Biden puts that allegiance in doubt.
Dude, we are Democrats. Criticizing and complaining about our leaders is our signature move. You need to look to the right for all that mindless loyalty stuff.
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Old 11th February 2024, 09:33 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Trump is generally held in such contempt by this forum, what else could I add that someone else has not yet said about that disgusting lump of lard? Is preaching the the choir that important here?

As far as I can recall, I've never had a kind word for Trump here. Are you suggesting that I should be supporting that lying, rapey, gun grabbing SOB?

ETA; I did a search on Trump associated with my posts. 275 results were returned, none of them complementary, some are derogatory. I normally enjoy taking any chance to express my displeasure towards Trump.
Either you feel strongly about politicians getting special treatment or you donít. And if you are selectively expressing this feeling about one politicianís behavior but not anotherís far worse behavior (for whatever reason), then it becomes clear that itís not about principle but rather bashing a specific politician.

I donít know what your political affiliations are and I donít care if you criticize Biden. But you should at least attempt do so fairly and honestly if you expect it to be perceived as in good faith.
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Old 11th February 2024, 09:39 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The point isn't to preach to the choir. The point is to prove tribal allegiance. Criticizing Biden puts that allegiance in doubt.
I donít care if you criticize Biden. But when you focus all your attention on a small grease fire and ignore the raging forest fire behind you, you canít claim that fire safety is your primary concern.
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Old 11th February 2024, 11:01 AM   #145
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Yeah...well ..I'm go with the malignant narcissist who promised to be a dictator from day one. Here's my bank account numbers.
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Old 11th February 2024, 01:32 PM   #146
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So something to me is not clear.

In this report, he addressed Biden having classified documents (no charges), Trump having classified documents (a very different situation), but dud he talk about Pence?

Pence's situation is more like Biden. If there are no charges against Pence, is it because he would be perceived as an old guy with bad memory, too?

Of course not. So what's the difference between Pence and Biden? This is why it's being described as a political hit piece.
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Old 11th February 2024, 02:05 PM   #147
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Wait, the special counsel is named Robert Hur? Robert Hur?! As in HUR DUR?!

Whoever is writing this Trump-era scriptÖ
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Old 11th February 2024, 02:05 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
So what's the difference between Pence and Biden? This is why it's being described as a political hit piece.
Pence was cleared- no wrongdoing.

Biden was found to have willfully retained the documents- but recommendation is not to prosecute. - then you get the controversial reasons for that.
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Old 11th February 2024, 02:20 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Pence was cleared- no wrongdoing.

Biden was found to have willfully retained the documents- but recommendation is not to prosecute. - then you get the controversial reasons for that.
To be clear, Pence was summarily cleared by the DOJ and spared a special counsel investigation conducted by a former member of a rival and hostile administration.
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Old 11th February 2024, 08:59 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Either you feel strongly about politicians getting special treatment or you donít. And if you are selectively expressing this feeling about one politicianís behavior but not anotherís far worse behavior (for whatever reason), then it becomes clear that itís not about principle but rather bashing a specific politician.

I donít know what your political affiliations are and I donít care if you criticize Biden. But you should at least attempt do so fairly and honestly if you expect it to be perceived as in good faith.
I criticize them both. I do not care to keep track of how often I criticize each one as I don't care. Criticizing any politician for their mistakes is proper.

I don't care if you choose to remain ignorant of how I criticize any politician as it does not change the way I feel about them.

In my opinion, Biden and Trump are both getting special treatment, that the little people would not get.
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Old 12th February 2024, 12:03 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I criticize them both. I do not care to keep track of how often I criticize each one as I don't care. Criticizing any politician for their mistakes is proper.

I don't care if you choose to remain ignorant of how I criticize any politician as it does not change the way I feel about them.

In my opinion, Biden and Trump are both getting special treatment, that the little people would not get.
You keep referring to the little people and you resent Pence and Biden for not being held to the same standard.

What do you think Pence and Biden did exactly? I assume you also think Clinton did something similar re classified material and also got special treatment.

Do you know if any generals or other top brass did anything similar? Do you know if any of these classified papers were benign like calendars noting meetings that only mattered for security reasons?

I don't get it why you are fixated on this 'special treatment' that the rank and file don't get. I am trying to put your complaint into perspective. I don't resent that the POTUS and VP have more privileges than the rank and file. Can you explain the core issue you have? It looks like OCD or something.
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Old 12th February 2024, 12:27 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I criticize them both. I do not care to keep track of how often I criticize each one as I don't care. Criticizing any politician for their mistakes is proper.

I don't care if you choose to remain ignorant of how I criticize any politician as it does not change the way I feel about them.

In my opinion, Biden and Trump are both getting special treatment, that the little people would not get.
Weíre not talking about criticism in general, but criticism on this specific issue and how itís being applied. You gave Trump a pass and then came out guns blazing for Biden, and now want to claim that itís about the principle. Add in the dishonest conflation of Biden and Trumpís behavior, and itís pretty obvious that the goal here is just to dunk on Biden.

Which is fine. Have at it. But you should at least try to be honest about it.
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Old 12th February 2024, 02:14 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
We’re not talking about criticism in general, but criticism on this specific issue and how it’s being applied. You gave Trump a pass and then came out guns blazing for Biden, and now want to claim that it’s about the principle. Add in the dishonest conflation of Biden and Trump’s behavior, and it’s pretty obvious that the goal here is just to dunk on Biden.

Which is fine. Have at it. But you should at least try to be honest about it.
When have I ever given Trump a pass? I try to make it my business to criticize Trump whenever I can.

How about you link to the thread where I gave Trump a pass.

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Old 12th February 2024, 02:15 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You keep referring to the little people and you resent Pence and Biden for not being held to the same standard.

What do you think Pence and Biden did exactly? I assume you also think Clinton did something similar re classified material and also got special treatment.

Do you know if any generals or other top brass did anything similar? Do you know if any of these classified papers were benign like calendars noting meetings that only mattered for security reasons?

I don't get it why you are fixated on this 'special treatment' that the rank and file don't get. I am trying to put your complaint into perspective. I don't resent that the POTUS and VP have more privileges than the rank and file. Can you explain the core issue you have? It looks like OCD or something.
They mishandled classified documents and are not being held accountable in my opinion.
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Old 12th February 2024, 05:14 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
They mishandled classified documents and are not being held accountable in my opinion.
Are they allowed to do things with classified documents like taking them home or having them on a Blackberry for a needed reference while lower ranking persons are not?

The POTUS doesn't need a security clearance, for one example.
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Old 12th February 2024, 05:41 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
They mishandled classified documents and are not being held accountable in my opinion.
You can, fairly easily, argue that there should be more accountability for the misuse of classified documents, but there is not. More to your objection, while elected politicians are held to a lower standard than military personal or hired civil servants, it doesn't appear Biden or Pence are being given special leave beyond that.

The report said they lacked evidence to show the required elements of the crime. It even said it lacked any way to disprove innocent explanations. Beyond that editorializing and statements flatly contradicted by the report itself, the report shows they had nothing to charge. The report even says it is natural to assume Biden was guilty and still couldn't get close to showing the crime.

The report is freaking wild man.
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Old 12th February 2024, 06:21 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
When have I ever given Trump a pass? I try to make it my business to criticize Trump whenever I can.

How about you link to the thread where I gave Trump a pass.
You did not participate in a thread about the investigation into Trump for stealing classified documents.

You did, however, start a thread about the investigation into Biden for mishandling classified documents.

If your motivation was, as you claim, to express displeasure about the special treatment you perceive politicians receive in these investigations, then your objections would have started with Trump instead of being an afterthought in the thread about Biden.

This does not necessarily mean that you support or defend Trump, but it certainly suggests that your motivation was actually just to bash Biden, especially considering the dishonesty you employed in doing so.

Again, bash Biden all you want. But at least be honest about it.

Last edited by johnny karate; 12th February 2024 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 12th February 2024, 06:29 PM   #158
Ranb
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Are they allowed to do things with classified documents like taking them home or having them on a Blackberry for a needed reference while lower ranking persons are not?

The POTUS doesn't need a security clearance, for one example.
They probably are. But I'm not talking about the president or VP mishandling classified materials, I talking about former VP's and presidents keeping classified material in an unsecured location.

The former POTUS does not have a security clearance as far as I know.
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Old 12th February 2024, 06:29 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I criticize them both. I do not care to keep track of how often I criticize each one as I don't care. Criticizing any politician for their mistakes is proper.

I don't care if you choose to remain ignorant of how I criticize any politician as it does not change the way I feel about them.

In my opinion, Biden and Trump are both getting special treatment, that the little people would not get.
Nonsense. POTUS and VPOTUS are not like you're average Joe. They have staffs that do a lot of their grunt work. They don't personally pack up their offices etc. That classified documents were put into storage doesn't mean they were responsible for it.

There is a huge difference between what Trump did and what Pence and Biden did. There is no evidence that either Biden or Pence had the necessary mens rea that would be required to make possession of the documents a crime.

Neither followed up their mishandling of documents with deliberate and premeditated obstruction. Which Donald Trump clearly did.

That a political hack decided to editorialize Biden and the DOJ didn't with Pence says more about the people performing the inquiries than it does their subjects.
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Old 12th February 2024, 06:33 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You did not participate in a thread about the investigation into Trump for stealing classified documents.
Prove it, show me a link to the tread.

Quote:
If your motivation was, as you claim, to express displeasure about the special treatment you perceive politicians receive in these investigations, then your objections would have started with Trump instead of being an afterthought in the thread about Biden.
I express my displeasure with Trump so often on this forum I sound like a broken record. There is nothing wrong with addressing a single person in a thread. You might have noticed that I did not claim Biden was the only one being caught with classified material in an unsecured location at their home.

Quote:
This does not necessarily mean that you support or defend Trump, but it certainly suggests that your motivation was actually just to bash Biden, especially considering the dishonesty you employed in doing so.
It means I also bash Biden, like I bash other politicians
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