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Old 4th February 2024, 09:50 PM   #1
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Australian Politics II



I’ve been watching the Ben Roberts-Smith Federal Court appeal. No bombshells from his lawyer (which I think are required for Judge Besanko’s ruling to be overturned. All he seems to have is that witnesses lied. A long time was spent trying to show anomalies in the when and where witnesses were when the non-combatants were executed, which seems to be straw clutching. The lawyer, for some reason, was banging on about there being only one or two witnesses to the murders.

But many rulings in Australia have been inexplicably overturned due to arcane interpretations of the law so I’m not going to make a call.
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Old 4th February 2024, 09:51 PM   #2
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Old 5th February 2024, 05:04 PM   #3
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In case you've missed all of the schadenfreudeliciousness of the show Nemesis, here's a pretty good summary:

Morrison manoeuvres, Abbott aggro, Trump tantrum: Turnbull’s time in office laid bare in ABC show

Quote:
Then-treasurer could say ‘utterly untrue’ things, ousted predecessor promised to be ‘very difficult’, and a bruising call with ‘bullying’ US president
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Old 6th February 2024, 02:12 PM   #4
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Back to the Robert-Smith case. His lawyer told the court that even if BRS planted a radio on an Afghani after he shot and killed him, as was witnessed, it was still a lawful killing as the Afghani was a potential risk.

These judges will not buy such poor logic.
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Old 9th February 2024, 04:03 AM   #5
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Barnaby Joyce pissed, lying on the ground in Canberra.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...09-p5f3r0.html

Quote:
Former Former deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce says he was talking to his wife Vikki Campion before he fell off a planter box, and was swearing because he hurt himself, after he was caught on video lying on his back on a footpath late at night mumbling obscenities on his phone.
He continues to disgrace himself, his office and his party, but nobody in the Coalition will talk to him about parliamentary standards or even just decent behaviour. He is untouchable and he knows it, but he is a pimple on the arse of the Coalition and will continue to behave as the yoick he is.

He almost makes Dutton look dignified and reasonable.
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Old 9th February 2024, 04:05 AM   #6
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Dupe. Bloody slow forum.
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Old 9th February 2024, 02:19 PM   #7
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Just saying, when Hawkie won a world record for downing a yard, everybody cheered.

Drinking to excess is only cool when it's someone we like.
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Old 9th February 2024, 06:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just saying, when Hawkie won a world record for downing a yard, everybody cheered.

Drinking to excess is only cool when it's someone we like.
That was before he became PM. Or even MP. I cannot recall seeing any TV showing him drunk. Did he even drink as PM?
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just saying, when Hawkie won a world record for downing a yard, everybody cheered.

Drinking to excess is only cool when it's someone we like.
Um, I don’t think RJH passed out drunk on the street. And he also completed a Rhodes Scholarship while downing that yard, where Joyce wouldn’t have completed primary school without calling in favours. Plus Hawke’s achievements are monumental, whereas Joyce is lucky if he can find his way home.

Apart from that the comparison between Hawke and Joyce is spot on.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:40 PM   #10
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What has happened to smilies? I meant to post one at the end of my last post.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:45 PM   #11
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Also, of course, Hawke swore off drinking for his entire parliamentary term. He was a student when he drank that yard.

Look, I get your point wolli, but referencing Joyce in the same sentance as Hawke is way beyond the pale.
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Old 9th February 2024, 11:46 PM   #12
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Old 10th February 2024, 12:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
That was before he became PM. Or even MP. I cannot recall seeing any TV showing him drunk. Did he even drink as PM?
I dunno, it's possible that he might not have been drinking at the America's Cup victory, but it sure didn't look like it.
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Old 10th February 2024, 12:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What has happened to smilies? I meant to post one at the end of my last post.
I can see them.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Also, of course, Hawke swore off drinking for his entire parliamentary term. He was a student when he drank that yard.

Look, I get your point wolli, but referencing Joyce in the same sentance as Hawke is way beyond the pale.
I agree, it's not even really in the same category.

Incidentally, some wag drew a chalk outline... though I think they may also have been drunk.
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Old 10th February 2024, 03:46 PM   #15
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I love Canberra.

They gave him a plaque!

It probably won't last for long.
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Old 10th February 2024, 03:47 PM   #16
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Old 10th February 2024, 04:13 PM   #17
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I'm not impressed with those who are saying:

"They should have gone to his aid, not filmed him! What has the world come to?"

Given his reputation for aggression and violence, am not in the slightest bit surprised that no one went to his aid. No sensible person goes to the aid of an angry drunk that is swearing and cursing while lying on the ground.
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Old 10th February 2024, 09:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I'm not impressed with those who are saying:

"They should have gone to his aid, not filmed him! What has the world come to?"

Given his reputation for aggression and violence, am not in the slightest bit surprised that no one went to his aid. No sensible person goes to the aid of an angry drunk that is swearing and cursing while lying on the ground.
There have other cases in Australia when a bystander has gone to someone’s aid, inadvertently made things worse and then been sued for large amounts of money. Unless you are medically qualified, do not get involved.
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Old 10th February 2024, 10:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
There have other cases in Australia when a bystander has gone to someone’s aid, inadvertently made things worse and then been sued for large amounts of money. Unless you are medically qualified, do not get involved.
You are highly unlikely to be successfully sued if you are a good Samaritan.

Ref: https://lawpartners.com.au/blog/pers...good-samaritan

Quote:
Under the Good Samaritan laws, a person who is acting in good faith in providing assistance to someone in need is protected from any personal liability in an emergency situation.
But a person swearing to someone on the phone is highly unlikely to want help. Joyce did not need any help as he got up and walked home afterwards. So the criticism aimed at the person who videoed him is not justified.
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Old 11th February 2024, 02:59 PM   #20
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Why people still vote for this bloke is a mystery to me. He is such a train wreck of a human being.

Barnaby Joyce says late night lie down 'a big mistake', blames mixing medication with alcohol

Quote:
Barnaby Joyce says he "made a big mistake", blaming medication for his behaviour, after being filmed swearing into his phone while lying on his back on a Canberra street late last Wednesday night.

Footage published on Friday by the Daily Mail shows the federal MP on the ground with the phone after he said he fell off a planter box on Lonsdale Street, a busy entertainment strip in the nation's capital.

"I'm on a prescription drug and they say certain things may happen to you if you drink and they were absolutely 100 per cent right," he told Seven's Sunrise...
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Old 11th February 2024, 03:12 PM   #21
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Certain things also happen to you if you drink *a lot* of alcohol.
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Old 11th February 2024, 03:15 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Certain things also happen to you if you drink *a lot* of alcohol.
I did a quick search to find out what kinds of medications would react badly with alcohol, and, well, there's rather a lot of them. I think it would be perfectly reasonable for someone of Barnaby's age and situation to be taking meds for anxiety or high blood pressure, for example.

But yeah, you've got to pay attention to the interactions.
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Old 11th February 2024, 10:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I did a quick search to find out what kinds of medications would react badly with alcohol, and, well, there's rather a lot of them. I think it would be perfectly reasonable for someone of Barnaby's age and situation to be taking meds for anxiety or high blood pressure, for example.

But yeah, you've got to pay attention to the interactions.
What a stupid idiot. If you are on prescription medications you should not be taking alcohol. The only exception would be if you are told that it is safe.

I would have thought that mixing alcohol and antibiotics would be safe. Wrong!
Ref: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...side%20effects.

If he suffers from anxiety then again he should not be taking alcohol as that would make the anxiety worse and that is not even looking at the drugs a person might be taking for anxiety.
Ref: https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/h...ddenly%20drops.

Edit: Ditto to high blood pressure. Ref: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...n%20moderation.
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Old 11th February 2024, 10:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
What a stupid idiot. If you are on prescription medications you should not be taking alcohol. The only exception would be if you are told that it is safe.

I would have thought that mixing alcohol and antibiotics would be safe. Wrong!
Ref: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...side%20effects.

If he suffers from anxiety then again he should not be taking alcohol as that would make the anxiety worse and that is not even looking at the drugs a person might be taking for anxiety.
Ref: https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/h...ddenly%20drops.

Edit: Ditto to high blood pressure. Ref: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...n%20moderation.
Nah, he’s a pisspot.
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Old 12th February 2024, 12:14 AM   #25
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I'm not a mental health professional, but if he can't prevent himself from drinking, he may need assistance with that.
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Old 14th February 2024, 04:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
What a stupid idiot. If you are on prescription medications you should not be taking alcohol. The only exception would be if you are told that it is safe.

I would have thought that mixing alcohol and antibiotics would be safe. Wrong!
Ref: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...side%20effects.

If he suffers from anxiety then again he should not be taking alcohol as that would make the anxiety worse and that is not even looking at the drugs a person might be taking for anxiety.
Ref: https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/h...ddenly%20drops.

Edit: Ditto to high blood pressure. Ref: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...n%20moderation.
I'd say he drank no more than usual. It's time he faced up to reality. He has a young child and needs to think about someone other than himself for a change.
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Old 14th February 2024, 04:15 AM   #27
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Loy Yang A goes completely off line due to a massive power surge and is still not back online. When green energy did this there was uproar.
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Old 14th February 2024, 02:14 PM   #28
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Back to the Robert’s-Smith appeal (which is highly political as it centres on Australia’s controversial involvement in Afghanistan), one judge is showing signs of not paying attention at all. She is (unlike the other two) continually asking Nine’s barrister where they are in the trial transcript and repeated asking for the meaning of acronyms like EKIA (which I worked out means Enemy Killed in Action without help).

But the forehead slapping moment came yesterday with testimony about an Australian soldier having to tell headquarters that there would be one fewer PUCs (Person under Control) needing to be helicoptered out. The judge asked “why is there one fewer PUC?”.

You could almost hear the sigh of exasperation by the barrister. “Because he had been murdered by a soldier”. The judge responded with “Sorry, I’m such an idiot”. Indeed you are. The whole thing is about killing of Afghani non combatants.
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Old 18th February 2024, 02:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...da5262e754df0e


Diabetes’ drain on private health funds revealed. Diabetes’ drain on private health funds revealed
Diabetes’ drain on private health funds revealed. Private insurers have outlined the staggering cost of diabetes to health funds, and called for radical change to fight the disease.

Thanks John Howard for a health system that is totally dysfunctional. The "Privatisation" of health has produced an expensive two tier system that selects the profitable and sends the rest to the public to subsidise. Private hosipitals have been shutting down maternity wards and they certainly don't want to have emergency departments. I pay private for what? I pay for top tier and when I last went to the hospital I had to pay cash on the spot to enter the ward. WTF?
That's because the hospital was owned by BUPA that is also a health fund and engages in anti-competitive behaviour by charging small non-BUPA health fund members extra to encourage them to move to BUPA. Why the small ones? Because they will be less able to take on a massively expensive court case. What about the ACCC?

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Old 18th February 2024, 02:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Thanks John Howard for a health system that is totally dysfunctional. The "Privatisation" of health has produced an expensive two tier system that selects the profitable and sends the rest to the public to subsidise. Private hosipitals have been shutting down maternity wards and they certainly don't want to have emergency departments. I pay private for what? I pay for top tier and when I last went to the hospital I had to pay cash on the spot to enter the ward. WTF?
That's because the hospital was owned by BUPA that is also a health fund and engages in anti-competitive behaviour by charging small non-BUPA health fund members extra to encourage them to move to BUPA. Why the small ones? Because they will be less able to take on a massively expensive court case. What about the ACCC?

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Maybe my memory is failing me, but I believe that ever since Medibank (now Medicare) was established there was always private health insurance offering ancillary medical care and the option of private health care. Something I’ve always taken up, like you.

I’m a Bupa member and expect a better deal if I go to a Bupa hospital. But I find that the deal is not often better. I’ve been a Bupa Optical user and I found I would get a better a deal if I use Specsaver. I get the Bupa rebate if I use them.

But in any case, I’m of the firm belief that Australia has the best health system in the world. The NHS is collapsing because the cost of the health service they provide is becoming unviable. Here we have good basic government funded care. If you want better, as we do, pay more, as we do.
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Old 18th February 2024, 03:21 AM   #31
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That's the problem BUPA discriminates against non-BUPA. That's anti-competitive. It's not free market it's market manipulation that is trying to create a monopoly.


The free market gets massive tax subsidies for the private health system but systematically tries to shift costs to the public system.
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Old 18th February 2024, 03:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That's the problem BUPA discriminates against non-BUPA. That's anti-competitive. It's not free market it's market manipulation that is trying to create a monopoly.


The free market gets massive tax subsidies for the private health system but systematically tries to shift costs to the public system.
It is always true that hospitals make deals with private health funds and don't necessarily have the same prices for (or even an agreement with) every fund.

As a consumer, the way forward for you, is to pick a private insurer that has agreements with the medical facilities you want to use.

This is the reason why I'm a member of BUPA (formerly Mutual Community) and not Health Partners.
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Old 21st February 2024, 07:13 PM   #33
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What are the predictions for the important Dunkley by election this weekend?

Important because, while the result in Dunkley will not change the lower house, it will give Dutton great momentum if he wins.

Dunkley was held by the LNP for the three out of four terms before Labor’s Peta Murphy won it n 2019 and increased the margin to 6.3% in 2022. Dunkley is interesting as it included down at heel areas like Frankston and the Pines, cheap new (and horrible) houses in Casey and the absolute elite in Sorrento, Portsea, Mt Eliza and so on.

So Labor should win with that margin, and the bookies (seldom wrong) think so.

But I’m not so certain.

Another interesting fact is that a win by Albo will do nothing for him, but a swing against Labor, even if they win, will be a victory for Dutton.

I predict a small ALP win with Green preferences getting them over the line.
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Old 21st February 2024, 08:59 PM   #34
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I don't expect an upset in the by-election but I don't know if it's fair to say that a swing against Labor will be a win for Dutton.
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Old 21st February 2024, 10:49 PM   #35
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I may be misreading this, but I think it's a comment about how the media are always talking up the conservatives here.

i.e.

If the Coalition loses by a landslide, but still gains 20% of the vote, that's a 'win' for the Coalition.
If the Coalition loses by 20 % of the vote, that's a 'win' for the Coalition.
If the Coalition loses by 5 % of the vote, that's a 'win' for the Coalition.
If the Coalition scrapes in, despite suffering a 10% swing against them, that's a win for the Coalition.
No matter how well Labor does, that's a 'loss' for Labor, which indicates that the current Prime Minister must resign now.

I'm reminded of the Murdoch headlines "Labor must go." but can't remember which election it was...

... no wait, was it all of them?
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Old 21st February 2024, 11:05 PM   #36
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And yet, time and time again, by election results mark the beginning of the end of PMs
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Old 22nd February 2024, 12:53 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What are the predictions for the important Dunkley by election this weekend?
- The ALP will win the seat with a reduced majority
- The conservative press will hail the result as a "shocking indictment" against the Labor government.
- The left leaning media will describe the result as better than expected.
- MPs will dust off their by election result speeches.

This by election is not really all that significant unless one of two things happens: The ALP loses the seat or the ALP wins the seat with an increased majority.

In spite of his "voice" blunder, Albo hasn't really done anything that could generate a groundswell of any significance.
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Old 22nd February 2024, 01:05 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post

In spite of his "voice" blunder, Albo hasn't really done anything that could generate a groundswell of any significance.
I suspect you are right. I’m really interested in the booths in Sorrento, Portsea etc. I think there will be a swing against Labor around Frankston, where the “No” vote was particularly strong, but I don’t think the deep blue conservatives in the south will warm to him at all. The problem is that there is no Teal candidate, and these voters will not vote Green.

So I swing against Labor. The magnitude will be very interesting.
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Old 22nd February 2024, 03:20 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So I swing against Labor.
Informal vote?
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Old 22nd February 2024, 03:24 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Informal vote?
Sorry. Meant to be a swing.
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