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Old 24th January 2013, 03:47 PM   #2961
tsig
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Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
Glad to see some more humorous posts here. A good laugh never hurt anyone, I say typing with one hand while grasping my chest and hoping my daughter can sue A+ for their comic drama triggering my heart attack.

Seriously though, just wanted to tell both Ronja and appalling I owe you a long reply and apologies, in case they log in before bedtime. You can read them tomorrow morning. I was wrong about quite a few things that haunted me dozing off. I sometimes wonder if I post solely to attain validation for my belief I don't really have low self esteem but am simply a jerk.
Maybe to help your low esteem problem I'll put up a poll question "Is RP a jerk?".

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Old 24th January 2013, 04:00 PM   #2962
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
You don't get to decide or question who is sincere about their triggers and disabilities. Doing that would get you kicked out of the Atheism+ forums rather quickly. Have you ever actually posted there, or read their "101" materials?
Yes, I am Amadan over there, as I said before.

Quote:
Yeah, I could believe that. Except that I wasn't born yesterday.
I'm not sure what you mean. You think I don't have few complaints about the mods?

Quote:
If by "the damn elevator thing" you mean the demonstrable fact that Watson and her friends publicly and falsely accused people of misogyny and promotion of rape simply for disagreeing with her about how men and women should interact socially, and called for and carried out campaigns of ostracizing and shunning those people, and never recanted or apologized for doing so, then yes, that will be a difficult fact for the atheism plus movement to put behind them.
That's an interesting reading of the situation, but even if I agreed with you (which I don't), I don't think A+ = Rebecca Watson.
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Old 24th January 2013, 04:57 PM   #2963
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As a fellow pathetic would-be-opressor male, I often want to learn how to make money by excusing trendy male magicians who pretend to skid their cars during heavy rain.

I would like to go to Atheism+ to do this.
But I know I'd be punished for feigning aquaplaning David Blaine splaining gaining training.
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Old 24th January 2013, 04:58 PM   #2964
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Originally Posted by Amadanb View Post
That's an interesting reading of the situation, but even if I agreed with you (which I don't), I don't think A+ = Rebecca Watson.
Which part of Myriad's description do you disagree with?
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Old 24th January 2013, 05:03 PM   #2965
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Originally Posted by Amadanb View Post
Originally Posted by Myriad
If by "the damn elevator thing" you mean the demonstrable fact that Watson and her friends publicly and falsely accused people of misogyny and promotion of rape simply for disagreeing with her about how men and women should interact socially, and called for and carried out campaigns of ostracizing and shunning those people, and never recanted or apologized for doing so, then yes, that will be a difficult fact for the atheism plus movement to put behind them.
That's an interesting reading of the situation, but even if I agreed with you (which I don't), I don't think A+ = Rebecca Watson.
I want to make clear that I very much agree with Myriad. I don't know how fair it is to saddle A+ with that. But as to what Watson did, that's documented.
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Old 24th January 2013, 06:33 PM   #2966
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
The crux of the situation is simple:

A man has the right to hit on a woman whenever he wants, wherever he wants and in any way he wants, anything less will lead to the extermination human race because they'll be no sex.

If a woman disagrees with this it's OK to harass her with threats of violence, insults and taunts.
Here's something I really wanted to address: This notion of "threats".

Almost all of the "threats" reported by people like RW (apparently if you say her full name three times she appears) don't in fact resemble threats at all. Her oft quoted "Hundreds of atheists have informed me that either they wanted to rape me, someone should rape me so that I will loosen up or that no one would ever rape me because I am so ugly" doesn't in fact contain any threats. It's unpleasant, sophomoric and ridiculous, sure. It's unacceptable too. But it isn't a threat.

If it was a threat then as Thunderf00t said, she should go to the police and report the individual making the threat.

There was a recent incident when some youtuber commented to Ophelia Benson that she would look better if someone threw acid on her. Again this was held up as an example of a threat. And yet again it is not a threat. It's an attempted insult made in poor taste. And if Benson considered this to be a serious threat and felt that it was a threat that the youtuber had both the capacity and the will to carry out then the best place to report it would be the police, not Twitter.

This is only peripherally related to A-Plus but it's something I see as a recurring phenomenon.

Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Really? then when would be an inappropriate place and time to hit on a woman?
Church confessional?

Originally Posted by appalling View Post
Okay, here's another one. If you go to a job interview and they say they aren't interested in hiring you, you probably shouldn't demand that they then tell you how to succeed at future job interviews.
You could ask for feedback on your application. Most companies would be happy to provide you with that.

Originally Posted by chillzero View Post
If I had a disability triggered by something visible, and I wanted to use the internet and still function at the end of the day, I expect I would take some responsibility and use a monochrome monitor setup, turn down the one colour that's an issue, or disable images as much as possible .... rather than ... you know ... expect every site I use to manage this on my behalf.

I have some disabilities / issues triggered by avoidable things, and I tend to think it is better for me to take what steps I can to avoid the problem, than to expect the world to conform to my needs (where it is unreasonable, and often in conflict with other people's needs).

I also have issues where I need to ensure others are aware of them (I don't want paramedics killing me with certain medication if I collapse, for example) - that awareness is my responsibility, and I don't expect that medication to be witheld from everyone else - just in case someone like me is treated.
If you posted this on the A-Plus site you would be banned for victim-blaming.
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:47 PM   #2967
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So just out of curiosity, I went and looked up the list of banned posters over at A+.

I don't know if they listed all of the bans, but there are some interesting reasons, as well as some that seem legit.

But their policy seems to come down to 'don't annoy the mods,' who are easily annoyed.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:04 PM   #2968
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
So just out of curiosity, I went and looked up the list of banned posters over at A+.

I don't know if they listed all of the bans, but there are some interesting reasons, as well as some that seem legit.

But their policy seems to come down to 'don't annoy the mods,' who are easily annoyed.
While there is a list of reasons, you are quite right on their policy. They seems to ban mostly for disagreeing with them.

Jen first postulated the idea of A+, but I see little of it in the forum. Sometimes, it looks like Anarchist +, other times it is Absolute-Power +.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:17 PM   #2969
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Originally Posted by WillyWonka View Post
While there is a list of reasons, you are quite right on their policy. They seems to ban mostly for disagreeing with them.

Jen first postulated the idea of A+, but I see little of it in the forum. Sometimes, it looks like Anarchist +, other times it is Absolute-Power +.
Although I can't argue with this one:

CFLarsen: Persistently annoying
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:38 PM   #2970
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Although I can't argue with this one:

CFLarsen: Persistently annoying
That's his role. He's a gadfly. I find CF interesting. Bet you didn't like Unca Yimmy either, which I didn't also at first. But I was stunned to see CF was the first one on that A+ ban list, which btw I doubt even contains half those banned there.

I think finally they became embarrassed about it and started suspending for a month as they did me and a long list of others who dared question their methodology in dealing with any dissent. Willy nailed it with Absolute Power+. But the serfs are getting restless, and the disciples are circling the wagons.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:44 PM   #2971
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Here's something I really wanted to address: This notion of "threats".

Almost all of the "threats" reported by people like RW (apparently if you say her full name three times she appears) don't in fact resemble threats at all. Her oft quoted "Hundreds of atheists have informed me that either they wanted to rape me, someone should rape me so that I will loosen up or that no one would ever rape me because I am so ugly" doesn't in fact contain any threats. It's unpleasant, sophomoric and ridiculous, sure. It's unacceptable too. But it isn't a threat.

If it was a threat then as Thunderf00t said, she should go to the police and report the individual making the threat.

.
OK now, that sounded kind of fishy so I went agooglin, and following a link through, yikes!!...Conservapedia, I was linked to the thunderfoot video where RW actually says those things. I didn't watch past that ( damn third world intenet connection ) but if thunderfoot did say that RW should go to the police then I have to agree with him.

Rape threats are unacceptable and should be dealt with using the full force of the law.

Aside...note to Aplussers..if you have technological limitations to watching videos there are Firefox extensions that allow you to download it no matter how slow your internet connection is.

Anyways...

I'm caught wondering how many statements, RW's for instance, or claims that receiving unwanted PMs can trigger shutdowns that last for days are, in fact, real or simply a case of acting for the cameras.

I dunno, my brain seems to function alright, maybe that's why I have a hard time fathoming why an outfit like A+ would feel the need to go on and on about how damaging an unsolicited PM could be when. as stated before, the simple solution is to turn them off.

OK..maybe I can relate a little.Whenever I get a PM i"m 99% sure it's my ole buddy "auto mod action" telling me that yet another of my posts has been sent to hell.

Sometimes these Aplussers tell such tales of woe that I'm curious as to why they haven't drank themselves to death by the time they're 25.

Playing the part ? Maybe I'm to cynical but sometimes I read these stories on A+ and come away with the feeling that I'm being conned.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:49 PM   #2972
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
Although I can't argue with this one:

CFLarsen: Persistently annoying
You can't argue with it, but the fact that he was that pain-in-the-butt and racked up a brazillion posts here without getting banned is an indication of the difference in the approaches to moderation of the two forums. Claus had far more annoying and rancorous discussions here and was rarely admonished much less banned. He's still a member; just chooses not to post.

And let's not forget all the work he's done for the Forums at various TAMs.

His banning there was because he wanted to open a dialogue and a search for the actual facts of Elevatorgate. Crossed the line, did he? Don't try to discuss things on which we've already made up your mind for you.
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:52 PM   #2973
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Maybe to help your low esteem problem I'll put up a poll question "Is RP a jerk?".

I told you already it's NOT low self esteem, tsig. It's my reality. If you can post that poll in Forum Management I'm sure the modettes will validate it for me.

ETA-I'm only back because humber is on another long hiatus. Lordy but I miss the car circus when he does his disappearing act. He still had em going at 5 pages of replies daily until last November. Did you catch spork's upwind record?
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:19 PM   #2974
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You can't argue with it, but the fact that he was that pain-in-the-butt and racked up a brazillion posts here without getting banned is an indication of the difference in the approaches to moderation of the two forums. Claus had far more annoying and rancorous discussions here and was rarely admonished much less banned. He's still a member; just chooses not to post.

And let's not forget all the work he's done for the Forums at various TAMs.

His banning there was because he wanted to open a dialogue and a search for the actual facts of Elevatorgate. Crossed the line, did he? Don't try to discuss things on which we've already made up your mind for you.
I agree. Claus can be annoying, but if I ran a forum, there's no way I would ban him for it.

Then we go to the second on the list: banned for whining about being oppressed by Fascist moderator. So complaints about the mods are enough for bannination.

I feel dirty, and not in a good way, for going back there.
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Old 24th January 2013, 10:03 PM   #2975
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Originally Posted by Ronja View Post
Err... you are not presenting the argument "If we are going to avoid colors on one site why not the entire net?" - ?? Then who is and/or why did you bring that argument up just a few posts earlier in this thread?
In retrospect I apologize. Guilty as charged. Rereading my words that is indeed what I implied. Nothing wrong with creating a safe place for specific groups, like atheists, and structuring the site accordingly. Not at all sure that's whats happening at A+, but your point is valid.

Quote:
Thank you for naming Supernaut, that made googling really easy, and I found this post on the page to which the first Google hit pointed: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewto...art=550#p42682. I trust this is the post in question, as it resembles your description, except for one rather crucial detail.

Seeing that post by Supernaut prompts me to ask: are you actually equating this smiley: with the smiley, which Supernaut imported from another site to A+ as an image and which was subsequently hidden by a mod there? For easy comparison, I have quoted Supernaut's smiley from the link above under the spoiler below; it's an animated smiley with a fairly large jumping/flashing red text, and one may need to wait for about a second to see the part that could be a photosensitive epilepsy and/or a migraine trigger:
Confession time after a bad night. I remembered that smiley well, and thought it was extreme enough that I could see how it might trigger epileptics. Yet I cherry picked around that as it weakened my defense of my earlier joke. Do others here do that, or is it just me?

I still though it was rather over the top like so much of A+ policy, but note I didn't argue it in any way. And I was told later that even red smileys like the one I used here were problematic. If you go back a bit in my posts, (I don't have that many but don't have search access now) you'll see when I twice posted a moving smiley with just a little red I hid it with a trigger alert. So yes, it would be a problem if I posted this there, especially if it moved which I'm told is still another issue. Yet if Setar did it; no problem.

Quote:
This does not make any sense. What, according to you, do "social justice" and "promoting social justice" mean? And how would it be in conflict with the goal of promoting social justice to enable people with disabilities to better participate in Internet discussions about the society? (and please do not counter with any version of "if A+ does not or cannot enable every possible person with every possible disability, they should not try to enable anyone")
Originally Posted by chillzero View Post
If I had a disability triggered by something visible, and I wanted to use the internet and still function at the end of the day, I expect I would take some responsibility and use a monochrome monitor setup, turn down the one colour that's an issue, or disable images as much as possible .... rather than ... you know ... expect every site I use to manage this on my behalf.

I have some disabilities / issues triggered by avoidable things, and I tend to think it is better for me to take what steps I can to avoid the problem, than to expect the world to conform to my needs (where it is unreasonable, and often in conflict with other people's needs).
This ^. Chill always was better than I at cutting to the chase. (Hi Chill. Been a while. Glad we're on the same page here. )

Have you read all their pontifications about things such as 'big tent' thinking, Ronja? If your stated goal is to advance awareness of social justice issues, is it really sound strategy to abuse all new members if they accidentally trigger some reaction in a small number of folks there with special problems? Remember one of their mantras is that intent doesn't matter. It would make some sense on a site for say epileptics. But is a pup-tent of in your face, our way or the highway zealots going to help the cause of social justice for all in any way? Look forward to reading your response. [Motion/flower allergy trigger alert!]
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Old 25th January 2013, 12:56 AM   #2976
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I urge all the people who whinge in Forum Management about how oppressive JREF's moderation is to hop on over to A+ to see real forum fascism in action.
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Old 25th January 2013, 03:02 AM   #2977
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
If you posted this on the A-Plus site you would be banned for victim-blaming.
Well, I am under no illusions that A+ is a remotely safe place for me to be. I say that as a non-heterosexual, disabled, phobic survivor of domestic abuse.

I'll stay here - where the forum community has actively supported me personally: emotionally and financially, as well as providing thousands of dollars to funding requests for other forum members in need, thank you.


Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
Hi Chill. Been a while. Glad we're on the same page here.
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Old 25th January 2013, 05:53 AM   #2978
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You have to hand it to A+, morning, noon, or night they never fail to deliver,

On their Are the Mods....thread we have a poster posting specific examples of long term Aplussers acting like total douchebags and delivering full on adhoms and what does the A+ elite do ? Why of course they instantly derail it into a swearing issue and claim the objection is to the dropping of f-bombs.

It takes a special type of person to become a SJ warrior.

I wouldn't want to buy a used car of of any of them.
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Old 25th January 2013, 06:20 AM   #2979
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
OK now, that sounded kind of fishy so I went agooglin, and following a link through, yikes!!...Conservapedia, I was linked to the thunderfoot video where RW actually says those things. I didn't watch past that ( damn third world intenet connection ) but if thunderfoot did say that RW should go to the police then I have to agree with him.

Rape threats are unacceptable and should be dealt with using the full force of the law.
The legal test is do you believe that the person making the threat has the capacity and the will to carry it out. So when my mother says "I'll bloody kill you!" it's not a criminal threat while when a man I saw breaking into the neighbour's car says "If you call the police I'll stab you to death" then it is.

In this circumstance saying "you should get raped then maybe you'll loosen up a bit" wouldn't constitute a criminal threat in the same way that "I am going to find you and rape you" would. Still if you are feeling threatened by comments made online then you can and should report them. All of them.
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Old 25th January 2013, 06:53 AM   #2980
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Originally Posted by Amadanb View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. You think I don't have few complaints about the mods?

What I mean is, your contention that the problems at A+ are caused by people who want "a safe space only for themselves" but not by the culture of unchecked in-crowd and mod bullying, is utter hogwash. Not only does it come across as willfully oblivious to the obvious, it also makes no internal sense. What does that accusation of safety-greed even mean?

Are we to understand that safety of a space is a limited quantity that can only be gained for some at the expense of others?

Well, maybe so. The behavior and the results so far at the A+ forum do seem to support that notion. But if it's so, the movement is self-extinguishing.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Old 25th January 2013, 08:30 AM   #2981
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Originally Posted by Doctor Plop View Post
As a fellow pathetic would-be-opressor male, I often want to learn how to make money by excusing trendy male magicians who pretend to skid their cars during heavy rain.

I would like to go to Atheism+ to do this.
But I know I'd be punished for feigning aquaplaning David Blaine splaining gaining training.
If there is any post on this forum that is ban-worthy....
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Old 25th January 2013, 08:36 AM   #2982
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I'm caught wondering how many statements, RW's for instance, or claims that receiving unwanted PMs can trigger shutdowns that last for days are, in fact, real or simply a case of acting for the cameras.
Most of it seems that way. A painfully unpleasant game of one-up-man-ship grossly exaggerated by GIFT and favourable in-group feedback. It's like the worst sort of high-school clique with any and all filters removed.
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Old 25th January 2013, 08:54 AM   #2983
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@recursive prophet, apology acknowledged, accepted and appreciated.

Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
...when I twice posted a moving smiley with just a little red I hid it with a trigger alert.
So you played by their rules, as is appropriate on their site. That seems right and proper to me.

Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
So yes, it would be a problem if I posted this there, especially if it moved which I'm told is still another issue. Yet if Setar did it; no problem.
*cough* You do realize that you are presenting a hypothesis there, which AFAICS cannot realistically be tested...

Originally Posted by chillzero View Post
If I had a disability triggered by something visible, and I wanted to use the internet and still function at the end of the day, I expect I would take some responsibility and use a monochrome monitor setup, turn down the one colour that's an issue, or disable images as much as possible .... rather than ... you know ... expect every site I use to manage this on my behalf.

I have some disabilities / issues triggered by avoidable things, and I tend to think it is better for me to take what steps I can to avoid the problem, than to expect the world to conform to my needs (where it is unreasonable, and often in conflict with other people's needs).
Originally Posted by recursive prophet View Post
This ^. Chill always was better than I at cutting to the chase.
Chill's comment is certainly good general advice, but how is it specifically relevant to the A+ forum? I cannot see any conflict between on the one hand an e.g. epileptic Internet user taking various general precautions and on the other hand a specific web site offering e.g. epileptics a chance to relax with their precautions and experience that forum's communication more fully. That forum is thus, AFAICS, simply taking some extra steps to welcome e.g. epileptics in particular. If the people who own/run the forum want to do that and the membership in general does not mind, what's the harm?

I have not read anything about "big tent", so I'll try to make the time to search for that (thank the FSM for Google!) before I express opinions about whatever "big tent" is.
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Old 25th January 2013, 03:40 PM   #2984
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Ronja: Thanks for another thoughtful reply. I was nearly finished a long, detailed reply when I accidentally lost it. I'll never learn to always write replies in word then paste them in. Getting old so sucks. Now i'm out of time. So in summary:

I cited my hiding smileys like this to show it was required, which you questioned earlier. We can't test directly whether Setar wouldn't have been criticized for posting one, but there is ample evidence just itt the 'less privileged than thou' crowd are treated very differently than others.

A+ is billed as part of the social justice movement. That is a much bigger tent than epilepsy. By their erratic focusing on the protection of a very select few, who as Chill pointed out can easily protect themselves, the many become marginalized and are attacked. If they attempt to rebut being dismissed as a troll, they are soon banned or suspended for a month. There are many examples if you just go through that mod thread in forum matters.

Their list of those banned has 66 names, and is far from complete. On average there are about 12 users logged in and perhaps another dozen guests. Less than half the number they acknowledge were banned and not including those given long suspensions. Frequently the insults continue even after the users are booted off and unable to defend themselves.

Here's a link to their 'big tent' concept: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewto...&t=1973#p30501 See if you agree with Setar. And consider this: are they not marginalizing far more within their small tent than in any way enlightening? That's what the numbers clearly suggest. I would also point out that there is quite a consensus among those like myself who have spent a lot of time reading at A+ that they thrive on net drama and belittling any who dare question their philosophy or actions. I suspect the more time you spend reading there the more you will agree.
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Old 25th January 2013, 03:55 PM   #2985
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http://attentionmeter.com/?d1=atheis...2=&d3=&d4=&d5=

Went from zero hits per day in July (founding) to almost 5,000 in October. Then people figured out how stupid it is, and the count plummets to 1,000 a day by December. It will likely approach zero within another month or two, as even the dead-enders get bored.
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Last edited by The Central Scrutinizer; 25th January 2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 25th January 2013, 04:26 PM   #2986
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Thanks for that link TCS. Never heard of Compete before, and all the others don't track smaller sites.
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:01 PM   #2987
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Kay, so another person tried to honestly approach the "vegan challenge" and was kicked out and in the locked thread with their posts all the posts are hidden with the text being the Mod's witty summary of their posts.

Some things can't be made up.

Also a person as a "witty joke" posted one of their versions of my argument with a </Tsukasa Buddha> tag for their mocking post in the thread I've been kicked out of. And a mod didn't seem to care.
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:05 PM   #2988
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Kay, so another person tried to honestly approach the "vegan challenge" and was kicked out and in the locked thread with their posts all the posts are hidden with the text being the Mod's witty summary of their posts.

Some things can't be made up.

Also a person as a "witty joke" posted one of their versions of my argument with a </Tsukasa Buddha> tag for their mocking post in the thread I've been kicked out of. And a mod didn't seem to care.
What's funny to me is that these people live in such a sheltered little echo chamber that they don't realize they're being laughed at. And it's hard to advance your cause when people are not ignoring or disagreeing with you, but literally laughing at you.
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:13 PM   #2989
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Every time I visit there I'm reminded of PG Wodehouse's brilliant summation of communism: You work for the equal distribution of property and start by collaring all you can and sitting on it.

Plussers work for SJ and start by screaming "Check your privilege" at one another and arguing over which of them is the biggest victim. It's comedy gold.
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:21 PM   #2990
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Kay, so another person tried to honestly approach the "vegan challenge" and was kicked out and in the locked thread with their posts all the posts are hidden with the text being the Mod's witty summary of their posts.

Some things can't be made up.
I'd have thought there was a lot of overlap between vegan and SJ. Certainly that's been the case with the vegans I've known. So I'm absolutely boggled that A+ considers vegans to be outgroup.
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:23 PM   #2991
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Originally Posted by Empress View Post
Plussers work for SJ and start by screaming "Check your privilege" at one another and arguing over which of them is the biggest victim. It's comedy gold.
Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I'd have thought there was a lot of overlap between vegan and SJ. Certainly that's been the case with the vegans I've known. So I'm absolutely boggled that A+ considers vegans to be outgroup.
Can one of you cisgendered gender traitors mansplain to me what "SJ" is?
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:26 PM   #2992
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I'd have thought there was a lot of overlap between vegan and SJ. Certainly that's been the case with the vegans I've known. So I'm absolutely boggled that A+ considers vegans to be outgroup.
I know. Veganism and Animal Rights fit right in with the Social Justice continuum, and many arguments almost mirror ones from other "causes".

Apparently they think that supporting Animal Rights is to the exclusion of supporting Human Rights.
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Old 25th January 2013, 09:27 PM   #2993
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Can one of you cisgendered gender traitors mansplain to me what "SJ" is?
You have revealed yourself, abbreviation-policer!

(Social Justice)
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Old 25th January 2013, 10:05 PM   #2994
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
You have revealed yourself, abbreviation-policer!
Stop.
Enough with the acronymony.
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Old 25th January 2013, 10:13 PM   #2995
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
You have revealed yourself, abbreviation-policer!

(Social Justice)
Umm...I could be wrong but I thought TCS was asking what social justice was. I see it as a kind of oxymoron based on the societies I'm aware of on this planet.
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Old 26th January 2013, 04:01 AM   #2996
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Here's the end of Limerick-gate.
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:10 AM   #2997
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
The legal test is do you believe that the person making the threat has the capacity and the will to carry it out. So when my mother says "I'll bloody kill you!" it's not a criminal threat while when a man I saw breaking into the neighbour's car says "If you call the police I'll stab you to death" then it is.

In this circumstance saying "you should get raped then maybe you'll loosen up a bit" wouldn't constitute a criminal threat in the same way that "I am going to find you and rape you" would. Still if you are feeling threatened by comments made online then you can and should report them. All of them.
That's an interesting perspective, thanks for the info. I naturally assumed that there's be huge teams of law enforcement working on tracking down the issuers of these threats and interviewing them.

Maybe RW isn't treating them as real either
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:16 AM   #2998
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Most of it seems that way. A painfully unpleasant game of one-up-man-ship grossly exaggerated by GIFT and favourable in-group feedback. It's like the worst sort of high-school clique with any and all filters removed.
Spot on assessment I'd say, and totally counterproductive to any sort of "movement" that's trying to grow itself. It seems to be SOP for most SJ movements with the values of equality and fairness merely being nothing but the writing on the tin.
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Old 26th January 2013, 05:25 AM   #2999
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I'd have thought there was a lot of overlap between vegan and SJ. Certainly that's been the case with the vegans I've known. So I'm absolutely boggled that A+ considers vegans to be outgroup.
Yes one would think the issues would go hand in hand. Most vegans I've known, however, haven't been SJWs , they've simply taken their commitment to not harming animals to the next level. I've never met a vegan who appears malnourished or harmed in any way by their diet also I've never met a vegan evangelist either.

The problem with being vegan and SJ is that vegan is seen as a "luxury" diet so it play to class issues. There's also concern over traditional societies diets incurring the ire of the vegans so we can frame that as being racist as well.

I wonder what would happen if someone started a thread over on A+ about shark finning ?
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Old 26th January 2013, 07:09 AM   #3000
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That's an interesting perspective, thanks for the info. I naturally assumed that there's be huge teams of law enforcement working on tracking down the issuers of these threats and interviewing them.

Maybe RW isn't treating them as real either
The amount of resources devoted by law enforcement to tracking down people who make threats is proportional to the threat they represent. A message from Germany to the US saying that someone deserves a raping is not going to warrant much investigation, whereas a message from an ISP in Las Vegas saying "I am going to rape you at TAM" probably is. A message saying "I am going to bomb TAM" is likely to garner an even greater response.

There's something else: You get a threatening email report it to their ISP. Someone tells you you should be raped on Facebook then report it to Facebook. All it takes is a single click.

Police will get calls for someone sending them harassing messages on Facebook and yet they haven't taken the simple step of clicking Block/Report.

There's a lot you can do to protect yourself.
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