• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

So: Many experts now agree ... some birds use fire as a weapon.

Ron Swanson

Illuminator
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
4,113
Location
Canada
Australian birds weaponize fire.

Some experts now agree, with old tales aboriginal people have told for centuries, ... that certain birds of prey actually USE fire as a weapon, to frighten up food to prey upon.

Raptors, including the whistling kite, are said to have been seen ... intentionally spreading grass fires in northern Australia, by caring burning sticks to new areas of dry grass and dropping them.

The reason: To flush out prey and feast!

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/australian-birds-have-weaponized-fire
 
Australian birds weaponize fire.

Some experts now agree, with old tales aboriginal people have told for centuries, ... that certain birds of prey actually USE fire as a weapon, to frighten up food to prey upon.

Raptors, including the whistling kite, are said to have been seen ... intentionally spreading grass fires in northern Australia, by caring burning sticks to new areas of dry grass and dropping them.

The reason: To flush out prey and feast!

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/australian-birds-have-weaponized-fire
So, will the police start arresting them for arson????? And (more seriously) could that be related to grass fires in the past that were thought to be arson/human cause??
 
So, will the police start arresting them for arson????? And (more seriously) could that be related to grass fires in the past that were thought to be arson/human cause??

I'm guessing no.

BUT YES to the second one ... that seems very likely!
 
Australian birds weaponize fire.

Some experts now agree, with old tales aboriginal people have told for centuries, ... that certain birds of prey actually USE fire as a weapon, to frighten up food to prey upon.

Raptors, including the whistling kite, are said to have been seen ... intentionally spreading grass fires in northern Australia, by caring burning sticks to new areas of dry grass and dropping them.

The reason: To flush out prey and feast!

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/australian-birds-have-weaponized-fire
Or, it could be that these raptors, when pouncing on a charred and shocked goanna behind the fire line, also picks up some burning twigs with it. While flying away with dinner, it adjusts its grip so the goanna isn’t dropped, but the burning twig giving it discomfort is.

Of course if you are an eye witness to behaviour that appears to support your religious beliefs or merely your knowledge of this belief, you might not pay that much attention to the details. Typical of confirmation bias.

And that is all they have at the moment. Religious belief and hearsay evidence from believers and those that know of the belief.

I’m not dismissing it out of hand, but even the researcher has skin in the game to “prove” a religious belief is factual, so I remain fairly sceptical of this “truth”.
 
I heard this reported. Birds can do fantastic things, like detect breast cancers from X-rays far better than humans, but I will need to see more and better evidence than this.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it to be true, just to add to our collection of sharks, crocodiles, spiders, snakes and drop bears. Tourism deterrence is a national priority. ;)
 
I heard this reported. Birds can do fantastic things, like detect breast cancers from X-rays far better than humans, but I will need to see more and better evidence than this.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it to be true, just to add to our collection of sharks, crocodiles, spiders, snakes and drop bears. Tourism deterrence is a national priority. ;)

:D:D:D:D:D:D:thumbsup:
 
I heard this reported. Birds can do fantastic things, like detect breast cancers from X-rays far better than humans, but I will need to see more and better evidence than this.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it to be true, just to add to our collection of sharks, crocodiles, spiders, snakes and drop bears. Tourism deterrence is a national priority. ;)

Hey dont be speciest!

You forgot the jellyfish. octopuses (octopi??), dingoes, mosquitoes, then there are the many plants that are out to get you too.
Thats assuming the land itself doesnt get you with sandtraps, mud, dust that swallows trucks, and sandy beaches that try to kill you in the middle of the night in your sleep

SINKHOLECARAVAN

major-sinkhole-swallows-vehicles-on-qld-coast
(this link shows the sheer size of the final hole)

If you find a copy of an Ozzie TV show called Towies, they actually had two of their employees camping there, and were called in to try and retrieve some of the 4x4,s and caravans that got swallowed, they had part of a show covering their attempts, also had footage from the camp at the time it happened


So be warned tourists, EVERYTHING in Oz is out to get ya!!!!
 
And you left out the terrestrial leeches that carry the parasite for River Blindness.
 
Cool, birds are smart.
Unlikely but not impossible, wonder if it's real.

So be warned tourists, EVERYTHING in Oz is out to get ya!!!!

Really?

Thought it was a well known fact that Australia only actively tries to kill Ausies.
 
Observation:

Bob White, a firefighter in the Northern Territory saw a small group of raptors, likely black kites, “pick up numerous smouldering sticks and transport them ahead of a fire front, successfully helping the blaze spread up a small valley.”


Conclusion:

Nathan Ferguson claims to have observed fire spreading about a dozen times in the Northern Territory since 2001. The long-time firefighter is adamant that the birds he’s observed — picking up twigs and starting new fires — were doing so on purpose.


Let's consider other possible explanations:
The article mentions that birds of prey - unlike most other animals that try to try go get away from fires - seem to be attracted to (outskirts of) fires because they can catch prey fleeing. That sounds very likely, and it's probably true. Birds of prey usually have very good long-distance eye sight, so it may simply be a question of noticing the fleeing prey rather than the fire.
What do birds also do? They pick up sticks, straws and feathers and sometimes even barbed wire. Why? Because they use this stuff for building nests. Where would they fly with these things? Into the fires or away from them? What happens when they notice that the sticks that they picked up are burning at one end? Yes, exactly: They drop them!

Over the years I've had a couple of agapornis personata parrots ('love birds'). I would let them out of their cage in the kitchen. (And, yes, I had to buy an awful lot of paper towels to clean up the mess.) Even if you don't give them boxes for the purpose, they try to build nests on top of cupboards instead. If they see a piece of paper, they will use their beaks to make long strips suited for the purpose of nest building. (We learned not to leave books or magazines on the kitchen counter! In nature, they probably do the same thing with leaves.) They may also use drinking straws left in glasses in the kitchen sink.


We were cooking with gas, and a couple of times the parrots managed to put either the strips of paper or the drinking straws on fire. However, they seemed to be blissfully unaware of this, at first, but when they noticed, they would drop them.

Or - if I were as anthropomorphizing as the firefighter Nathan Ferguson - I might jump to the conclusion that they were actually trying to burn down the house! :)
 
Last edited:
Some experts now agree, with old tales aboriginal people have told for centuries, ... that certain birds of prey actually USE fire as a weapon, to frighten up food to prey upon.

It's funny, previously it would have been, "Meh, these people have only lived here for 40,000 years, what do they know?" Now it's, "Whoa, a white bloke has seen it happen therefore it's true!"
 
The article mentions that birds of prey - unlike most other animals that try to try go get away from fires - seem to be attracted to (outskirts of) fires because they can catch prey fleeing. That sounds very likely, and it's probably true. Birds of prey usually have very good long-distance eye sight, so it may simply be a question of noticing the fleeing prey rather than the fire.
What do birds also do? They pick up sticks, straws and feathers and sometimes even barbed wire. Why? Because they use this stuff for building nests. Where would they fly with these things? Into the fires or away from them? What happens when they notice that the sticks that they picked up are burning at one end? Yes, exactly: They drop them!mp to the conclusion that they were actually trying to burn down the house! :)

1. Birds build nests in the spring. In Australia, that is August - October. The bushfire season in Australia runs December - March, sometimes April. By that time, the nest is empty, the chicks have grown up and left.

2. In any case, why would a bird fly into burning a grass area to pick up sticks and take them to the non-burning grass area to build a nest, when there is ample supply of nesting materials in the non-burning grass area?

3. I have observed herring gulls and blackback seagulls in my local area picking up shellfish, usually pipis or sea-oysters, on the beach and flying a short distance to the sealed parking areas and dropping them. They aren't doing this for fun, they're trying to break the shellfish open so they can eat it. Birds picking up burning sticks to start fires is not much of a stretch from what I have observed with gulls and shellfish.
 
Last edited:
Australian birds weaponize fire.

Some experts now agree, with old tales aboriginal people have told for centuries, ... that certain birds of prey actually USE fire as a weapon, to frighten up food to prey upon.

Raptors, including the whistling kite, are said to have been seen ... intentionally spreading grass fires in northern Australia, by caring burning sticks to new areas of dry grass and dropping them.

The reason: To flush out prey and feast!

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/australian-birds-have-weaponized-fire
Maybe that's whats happening in California?
 
1. Birds build nests in the spring. In Australia, that is August - October. The bushfire season in Australia runs December - March, sometimes April. By that time, the nest is empty, the chicks have grown up and left.


No problem, birds not only build nests but also maintain them all summer long, and sometimes they have to rebuild them when they are destroyed.

2. In any case, why would a bird fly into burning a grass area to pick up sticks and take them to the non-burning grass area to build a nest, when there is ample supply of nesting materials in the non-burning grass area?


The article told you why, and I repeated its explanation: Birds of prey are attracted to fires because of their prey fleeing from them. That they pick up a stick to bring back is not what they came for, but if they see something that seems useful they may pick it up and bring it back - and drop it again if they decide otherwise.

3. I have observed herring gulls and blackback seagulls in my local area picking up shellfish, usually pipis or sea-oysters, on the beach and flying a short distance to the sealed parking areas and dropping them. They aren't doing this for fun, they're trying to break the shellfish open so they can eat it. Birds picking up burning sticks to start fires is not much of a stretch from what I have observed with gulls and shellfish.


Yes, it's quite a stretch from what you've observed. One thing is knowing that things crack when dropped on a hard surface. It's something that a bird could discover by accident: dropping an oyster either by accident or because it proved too hard to open with the beak and discovering that now its juicy meat is suddenly accessible. A behaviorist would love to point out the very simple stimulus-response pattern. Instant reward.
Another thing is the experience that fires are accompagnied by fleeing animals so the next time there's smoke: expect food!

But the stretch comes when the bird is supposed to know not only that
1) Fire --> food,
but also:
2) Burning stick dropped in dry grass causes fire.
3) Must see to it that this fire spreads so I can dine on roasted mice tonight.

I'll go with Occam in this case, and I do so mainly because I've observed my love birds putting straws on fire when they accidentally got too close to the gas flames of the stove, taking off with them and dropping them when they noticed. Luckily they never managed to set fire to anything else, but if they had, it wouldn't have been deliberate. They didn't know what they were doing.
I see no reason to think that the Australian birds set fire to dry grass any more intentionally than careless teenagers who cause fires by dropping cigarette butts out of car windows when driving through dry areas. (But unlike the birds, the teenagers are actually able to do deliberately and sometimes do. Teenagers know what fire is, how it's made and how it spreads.)

And bonobos ...


PS You might also claim that squirrels deliberately plant trees!
 
Last edited:
Bottom line: The study was a collection of 21 (I believe that was the number) retrospective anecdotes. There are no videos of the behavior so we can't easily evaluate alternative hypotheses.

Further research is necessary, and given the destructive wildfires in both Australia and the US, it's worth investing the resources to do the research.
 
No problem, birds not only build nests but also maintain them all summer long, and sometimes they have to rebuild them when they are destroyed.

This is rubbish.

While Whistling Kites use the same nest year after year, they do NOT maintain them all year. They add material annually at the beginning of the nesting season (this can result in the nest becoming very large). Kites, especially those found in northern Australia are nomadic, wandering thousands of kilometres from their nesting sites. They will not be maintaining a nest when they are nowhere near it, and in the dry season, not the nesting season (unless you are suggesting they fly thousands of kilometres throughout the year to take a few sticks to their nest?)

Yes, it's quite a stretch from what you've observed. One thing is knowing that things crack when dropped on a hard surface. It's something that a bird could discover by accident: dropping an oyster either by accident or because it proved too hard to open with the beak and discovering that now its juicy meat is suddenly accessible. A behaviorist would love to point out the very simple stimulus-response pattern. Instant reward.

Interesting point of view

Pick up shellfish > fly to hard ground > drop shellfish > shellfish breaks > fly down to get food
Pick up burning twig > fly to grassy area> drop stick > fire starts > fly down to get prey

Not seeing much of a stretch there.


Because bonobos have wings?

PS You might also claim that squirrels deliberately plant trees!

A man of straw, and a clumsy one at that!


I'm not saying this is what is really happening, but I'm not dismissing out of hand like you are.
 
Last edited:
Further research is necessary, and given the destructive wildfires in both Australia and the US, it's worth investing the resources to do the research.
:eye-poppi Really? To what end if it turns out correct? We start a bird re-education program?

Birds singing in chorus :flamed::
We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Hey! Peoples! Leave us birds alone!
 

Back
Top Bottom