Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

Gord_in_Toronto

Penultimate Amazing
Gord_in_Toronto
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
26,113
Nearly 200 names linked to Jeffrey Epstein expected to be made public

Nearly 200 names connected to the Jeffrey Epstein-Ghislaine Maxwell sex trafficking conspiracy could be released by a New York judge as soon as Tuesday, exposing or confirming the identities of dozens of associates of the disgraced financier that until now have only been known as John and Jane Does in court papers.
Click to expand...

This should be interesting . . . very interesting. :eek:

merged a lot of these posts from the Maxwell thread to this dedicated thread started afterwards
Posted By: jimbob
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Nearly 200 names linked to Jeffrey Epstein expected to be made public



This should be interesting . . . very interesting. :eek:
Click to expand...

Interesting alright, but we need to keep in mind this is a list of people whose names are contained in court documents related to the case... it is NOT the contents of Ghislaine Maxwell's "Little Black Book". That has not been released, and it is never likely to be. The only possibility I see for that to ever be released is at some time during her appeal. If she looks like losing it, she may leverage the book against a sentence reduction. I rate this "possible, but unlikely".

We should also keep these three facts in mind...

1. It will be a list of names with little or no context.
We might find the name of a well known Senator on the list, but the mere fact of being on the list will not tell us why he/she is on it, and will not tell us anything about how close they were to Epstein or Maxwell. For example, if they were a guest at a resort, was it just once at one resort or many times at various resorts? The list will not answer that question.

2. Most of the people on that list will be unknown to the general public.
This is because they are service people or employees at his resorts such as building managers and staff, chefs & waiters doormen etc, as well as pilots and other flight crew, drivers and people who were guests at one of his resorts and/or hotels. In other words, people who knew, worked for, or were in some other way associated with Epstein, but were not necessarily involved in any of Epstein's or Maxwell's crimes. Some of the names could even be other victims.

3. The list will not be complete
Everyone on that list was given the opportunity to have their names suppressed before release, and those who did were mostly successful in doing so. Therefore, most, if not all of the names on the list that will be released are likely to be those with nothing to hide... and the names of those who do have something to hide will not be on the list when it is released.
 
Last edited:
If I were an unwitting employee at one of Epstein's resorts, named in court, I would absolutely want my name suppressed before the release of this list.

I can't imagine anyone on that list having "nothing to hide". Even if they did nothing wrong, they can't possibly think it's a good idea to put their name and their association with Epstein in front of the court of public opinion. That's just a good way to get a lynch mob on their front porch.
 
Last edited:
smartcooky said:
Interesting alright, but we need to keep in mind this is a list of people whose names are contained in court documents related to the case... it is NOT the contents of Ghislaine Maxwell's "Little Black Book". That has not been released, and it is never likely to be. The only possibility I see for that to ever be released is at some time during her appeal. If she looks like losing it, she may leverage the book against a sentence reduction. I rate this "possible, but unlikely".

We should also keep these three facts in mind...

1. It will be a list of names with little or no context.
We might find the name of a well known Senator on the list, but the mere fact of being on the list will not tell us why he/she is on it, and will not tell us anything about how close they were to Epstein or Maxwell. For example, if they were a guest at a resort, was it just once at one resort or many times at various resorts? The list will not answer that question.

2. Most of the people on that list will be unknown to the general public.
This is because they are service people or employees at his resorts such as building managers and staff, chefs & waiters doormen etc, as well as pilots and other flight crew, drivers and people who were guests at one of his resorts and/or hotels. In other words, people who knew, worked for, or were in some other way associated with Epstein, but were not necessarily involved in any of Epstein's or Maxwell's crimes. Some of the names could even be other victims.

3. The list will not be complete
Everyone on that list was given the opportunity to have their names suppressed before release, and those who did were mostly successful in doing so. Therefore, most, if not all of the names on the list that will be released are likely to be those with nothing to hide... and the names of those who do have something to hide will not be on the list when it is released.
Click to expand...

Donald Trump and Bill Clinton will be on the list, and MAGAts will tell us how this is bad for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.
 
pgwenthold said:
Donald Trump and Bill Clinton will be on the list, and MAGAts will tell us how this is bad for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.
Click to expand...

But not Jimmy Kimmel.

Jimmy Kimmel Threatens to Sue Aaron Rodgers for Suggesting He Was a Jeffrey Epstein Associate

Dear *******: for the record, I’ve not met, flown with, visited, or had any contact whatsoever with Epstein, nor will you find my name on any “list” other than the clearly-phony nonsense that soft-brained wackos like yourself can’t seem to distinguish from reality. Your reckless words put my family in danger. Keep it up and we will debate the facts further in court.
Click to expand...

Apparently.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove rule 10 breach in quote
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well the list is out.

As I predicted, a few famous names, most of whom we already knew and a couple of mild surprises. Also some victims and those who treated and advocated for them. The rest are a bunch of Neville and Nellie Nobodies.

The List
- Andrew Albert Christian Edwards, Prince Andrew
-James Michael Austrich
Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP> for rule 4.
The list is available in many places online.



The biggest nothingburger so far this decade!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
smartcooky said:
Well the list is out.

As I predicted, a few famous names, most of whom we already knew and a couple of mild surprises. Also some victims and those who treated and advocated for them. The rest are a bunch of Neville and Nellie Nobodies.

The List
- Andrew Albert Christian Edwards, Prince Andrew
-James Michael Austrich
-Eva Andersson
-
Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP> for rule 4.
The list is available in many places online.



The biggest nothingburger so far this decade!
Click to expand...

I don't know, I imagine there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth over the very idea Trump's name is included on the pervert list.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's just a list of people Epstein knew.
He was an influential millionaire who knew a lot of influential people.
Because someone knew him doesn't mean anything.
Lots of jumping to conclusions.
 
No doubt Jeffrey Epstein was a sleazebag of major proportions. And so were some of his associates. But just because some powerful people were his associates does not mean they took advantage of young women/girls. It doesn't mean they didn't either.

But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.

This is the political equivalent of a Rorschach test. People will see what they want to see.

I have moved this to Social Issues as one name at least is not American

And the topic seems sufficiently different from the Ghislaine Maxwell thread

Posted By: jimbob
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think it says more about our society and government in general than about any specific individual. The fact that Epstein was able to do this and either involve so many famous and powerful people, or at least conceal it from them while they rode around with him is disturbing.
 
Andy_Ross said:
It's just a list of people Epstein knew.
He was an influential millionaire who knew a lot of influential people.
Because someone knew him doesn't mean anything.
Lots of jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...


Good point, and it raises a question: Who is more likely to have known what Epstein was doing with young girls?
-Juan and Maria Alessi, husband and wife working at Epstain’s home in Florida​
or
-Bill Clinton​
?
 
I recently read a novel, Everybody Knows, by Jordan Harper. He's a Hollywood TV writer and producer when he's not writing modern noir stories. The thesis of this novel, expressed in the title, is that everyone knows that the people in power in Hollywood are perpetrating heinous abuses on the people not in power (including, centrally in this novel, the recruiting, grooming, and brokering of young girls for sex). Everybody in the industry knows it's happening, even the ones who aren't involved or implicated. Everybody knows, nobody talks.

But it's fiction, so no matter how true it rings, we probably shouldn't suspect anything similar of the rich and powerful cabals that govern our world - even though many of them not only knew but were themselves involved. Right? Right? /s

ETA: I don't suspect Trump, for the simple reason that if Trump knew he would have blabbed in a White House press conference. Also, prior to his 2016 win, he probably didn't rate as eligible for Epstein's circle, and after the election was too much of a buffoon to be invited to join.
 
Last edited:
If anyone on the list was guilty of anything, there would be a lot more fire than smoke and hot air on the internet.
 
theprestige said:
I recently read a novel, Everybody Knows, by Jordan Harper. He's a Hollywood TV writer and producer when he's not writing modern noir stories. The thesis of this novel, expressed in the title, is that everyone knows that the people in power in Hollywood are perpetrating heinous abuses on the people not in power (including, centrally in this novel, the recruiting, grooming, and brokering of young girls for sex). Everybody in the industry knows it's happening, even the ones who aren't involved or implicated. Everybody knows, nobody talks.

But it's fiction, so no matter how true it rings, we probably shouldn't suspect anything similar of the rich and powerful cabals that govern our world - even though many of them not only knew but were themselves involved. Right? Right? /s

ETA: I don't suspect Trump, for the simple reason that if Trump knew he would have blabbed in a White House press conference. Also, prior to his 2016 win, he probably didn't rate as eligible for Epstein's circle, and after the election was too much of a buffoon to be invited to join.
Click to expand...

Pizzagate is now a book? God I hate fiction that steals from conspiracy theories.

You give that credence? There have been a few examples among people in local or federal politics, but you think it's possible ALL politicians except Trump are pedophiles? That's crazy talk.
 
acbytesla said:
No doubt Jeffrey Epstein was a sleazebag of major proportions. And so were some of his associates. But just because some of these powerful people were his associates does not mean they took advantage of young women/girls. It doesn't mean they didn't either.

But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.
Click to expand...
True, it is quite likely that at least some of the people associated with Epstein were oblivious to his sleazebagary, and/or did not partake in any of his offered "activities", and that we should be skeptical until we see more evidence.

I think Trump is a little different than most people however, based on his public statements about how "Epstein liked them young" implies a familiarity with what was happening.
 
theprestige said:
I recently read a novel, Everybody Knows, by Jordan Harper. He's a Hollywood TV writer and producer when he's not writing modern noir stories. The thesis of this novel, expressed in the title, is that everyone knows that the people in power in Hollywood are perpetrating heinous abuses on the people not in power (including, centrally in this novel, the recruiting, grooming, and brokering of young girls for sex). Everybody in the industry knows it's happening, even the ones who aren't involved or implicated. Everybody knows, nobody talks.

But it's fiction, so no matter how true it rings, we probably shouldn't suspect anything similar of the rich and powerful cabals that govern our world - even though many of them not only knew but were themselves involved. Right? Right? /s
Click to expand...

None of us really knows what the people around us do outside of our presence.



theprestige said:
ETA: I don't suspect Trump, for the simple reason that if Trump knew he would have blabbed in a White House press conference. Also, prior to his 2016 win, he probably didn't rate as eligible for Epstein's circle, and after the election was too much of a buffoon to be invited to join.
Click to expand...

I disagree about Trump. This guy use to walk into underage beauty pageants dressing rooms while the girls were dressing. This guy was a regular at Studio 54. He has been accused of sexual assault by two dozen women. But none of that tells us he necessarily was involved in Epstein's escapades.

We just don't know.
 
acbytesla said:
But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.
Click to expand...

Well the Dershowitz allegations are far more serious than that. But yeah, the "evidence" against Clinton is someone saying Epstein told them (about Clinton) "he likes them young" and the fact Clinton used the plane for humanitarian work in Africa. Entirely apart from the hearsay nature of the alleged statement- from a known liar and namedropper - yes, we know, Lewinsky was 22, nearly 30 years younger then him.

Trump so far seems clean, at least with regard to Epstein.
 
Orphia Nay said:
you think it's possible ALL politicians except Trump are pedophiles? That's crazy talk.
Click to expand...
Thank god that's not what I said.

What I said was this, now in plain language since you're prone to misunderstanding allusion and implication: It's plausible that even if Bill Clinton were not involved in Epstein's shenanigans, he knew that such shenanigans were going on.

You really think that serial adulterer and garden-variety corrupt politician Bill Clinton never got an invite, and never heard anything from or about anyone who did? Never got offered any kind of quid pro quo at all, from Epstein or his associates?
 
Donny knew, and wanted in. There is video of him "window shopping" with Epstein and a bunch of young ladies. Don't tell me serial adulterer and sex pest Trump did not partake at least once. Knowing what a mother funking sleaze Epstein was, there will be photos too...
 
theprestige said:
ETA: I don't suspect Trump, for the simple reason that if Trump knew he would have blabbed in a White House press conference. Also, prior to his 2016 win, he probably didn't rate as eligible for Epstein's circle, and after the election was too much of a buffoon to be invited to join.
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight: You think Trump, who was on the Forbes Richest Billionaires List and whom the world believed was an extremely successful billionaire, a man whose sexual exploits and adultery were tabloid fodder didn't "rate" an invite from Epstein??

theprestige said:
Thank god that's not what I said.

What I said was this, now in plain language since you're prone to misunderstanding allusion and implication: It's plausible that even if Bill Clinton were not involved in Epstein's shenanigans, he knew that such shenanigans were going on.
Click to expand...

It's plausible. It's also equally plausible he didn't.

theprestige said:
You really think that serial adulterer and garden-variety corrupt politician Bill Clinton Donald Trump never got an invite, and never heard anything from or about anyone who did? Never got offered any kind of quid pro quo at all, from Epstein or his associates?
Click to expand...

I fixed that so you could see how that works.
 
Stacyhs said:
Let me get this straight: You think Trump, who was on the Forbes Richest Billionaires List and whom the world believed was an extremely successful billionaire, a man whose sexual exploits and adultery were tabloid fodder didn't "rate" an invite from Epstein??
Click to expand...

I assume that someone clever enough to keep their operation secret for so many years was probably clever enough to know the Forbes rating and other laurels laid on Trump's head were nonsense.

Epstein was a power broker. You think he needed to read Forbes, to find out who wielded real power? He could just ask his clients.
 
theprestige said:
I assume that someone clever enough to keep their operation secret for so many years was probably clever enough to know the Forbes rating and other laurels laid on Trump's head were nonsense.

Epstein was a power broker. You think he needed to read Forbes, to find out who wielded real power? He could just ask his clients.
Click to expand...

I'm seeing several "I assume"/assumptions/"probably" and "it's plausible" in your posts. We don't know who knew what or when from this release. Speculations built on assumptions and 'possibles' are a waste of time and energy from both sides.

"It's plausible that even if Bill Clinton were not involved in Epstein's shenanigans, he knew that such shenanigans were going on," because Epstein was "clever enough to keep their operation secret for so many years,"?
 
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
Click to expand...

We don't know who in this released list engaged in these activities or even knew about them. Let's not jump to assumptions based on our own biases.
 
theprestige said:
Good point, and it raises a question: Who is more likely to have known what Epstein was doing with young girls?
-Juan and Maria Alessi, husband and wife working at Epstain’s home in Florida​
or
-Bill Clinton​
?
Click to expand...

or

- Stephen Hawking

or

-Bruce Willis

or

-Cate Blanchett

or

-Alfredo Rodriquez (his butler at Epstein’s Florida home)

For mine, I would be shocked if his butler didn't know what was going on.
 
acbytesla said:
No doubt Jeffrey Epstein was a sleazebag of major proportions. And so were some of his associates. But just because some powerful people were his associates does not mean they took advantage of young women/girls. It doesn't mean they didn't either.

But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.

This is the political equivalent of a Rorschach test. People will see what they want to see.
Click to expand...

Depends a bit on the timing; anybody hanging out with him after the 2008 conviction has some 'splaining to do.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
Click to expand...

Ever hear of Chappaquiddick? Ted Kennedy and five other married men held a party for six young single women who had worked on his brother's (RFK) campaign, as sort of a reward for that service.
 
I think it tells you a lot when people who have denied ever flying with Epstein are found on the list.
 
acbytesla said:
But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.
Click to expand...
Dershowitz was not mentioned as someone just flying with Epstein. He was named as someone involved with the underage victims.

One even mentions his name on air during Filthy Rich that she had sex with him.








Also from the international aspect -

Our version of MAGA are having a field day after seeing Ehud Barak (Israel's prime minister in 1999) on the list - even though his mentioning in the list is part of an interrogation where the victim says she did not have sex with him.

They are already running it on full blow craziness as some form of attacking the opposition - even though it's 100% false and the man wasn't in any relevant government position since 2012.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Trump or his sycophants.

However, when people talk about Trump being the "anti-elite" it is not because they think he is not rich or doesn't indulge himself. People know he brags about his lifestyle and he constantly talks about his "connections".

The "anti-elite" thing is the fact that he is - as they call it - in your face, tell it like it is, play by his own game, be anti establishment or someone who actually cares about what's real like how he enjoys a meal rather than be worried about stupid customs like which fork to use.

Or as I would put it - being a lying obnoxious narcist with the temper tantrum of a 6 year old. That is his appeal to them.



So yeah, I don't see a contradiction here at all from their perspective and no excuses needed.

I also tend to agree with the above, I don't think Trump is above being involved with Epstein's human trafficking - but I don't see it likely that we haven't heard it from his mouth yet.

The man has spilled so much stuff on tape - most of it intentional by himself - that I find it slightly hard to believe he would actually keep it a secret for so long. Just look at his current legal troubles.

Also agree that Trump at the time was mostly considered a tv personality at best and not even a powerful one.

In other words, yes he would partake in it, yes he probably wanted to be part of it but doubt he was "cool enough" to be invited.
 
Andy_Ross said:
It's just a list of people Epstein knew.
He was an influential millionaire who knew a lot of influential people.
Because someone knew him doesn't mean anything.
Lots of jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...

To be more specific - The list is people whose name was mentioned during interrogations. But of course people jump to stupid conclusion without even seeing why they were mentioned in the first place.

I mentioned this in the other thread, Barak was mentioned there and people are having a field day with it - but when you look at the actual document the question is "did you have sex with him? answer: no"

But it doesn't matter at all, because people won't actually bother reading or care what the real facts are.

People don't want to learn facts, they just want to strengthen their own personal bias.
 
smartcooky said:
or
- Stephen Hawking
Click to expand...

Another great example. From all I can see, the only reason Hawking is even on the list is because of this mention in an Email by Epstein

"You can issue a reward to any of Virginia's friends acquaints family that come forward and help prove her allegations are false. The strongest is the Clinton dinner, and the new version in the Virgin Islands that Steven Hawking participated in an underage orgy," Epstein wrote in the email.
Click to expand...

In other words, Epstein basically says that they can say she is lying because she is accusing Hawking.

It's not the first time they basically throw another name into the mix to claim that is what the victim claim to have something easily to discredit - even though the victim never said it in the first place.
 
Brainster said:
Ever hear of Chappaquiddick? Ted Kennedy and five other married men held a party for six young single women who had worked on his brother's (RFK) campaign, as sort of a reward for that service.
Click to expand...

Yes, and so what? Eleanor Rooseveldt was supposed to be insatiable. Ben Franklin had it off with his black slaves, so the rumour goes. We are discussing Epstein and his flight logs. Was RFK on the list?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom