"Everything else" the same as before? I don't recall there ever being an Arab double hijacking, much less a quadruple one.
first time for everything.
first time that two tallest steel framed skyscrapers fell to the ground
first time that two landmarks were purposely targeted by hijackers who used airplanes as missiles.
ever thought that those "previous" hijackings were just enough to see if it were possible to coordinate a 4 plane hijacking on 9/11?
Anyway, we are drifting away from the original argument and into territory already well covered. I came to JREF to try to persuade you that the "Official Conspiracy Theory," is a fraudulent one
To persuade, you must provide evidence. Evidence and testimony by qualified and respected experts. to date, you have provided no evidence and provided no experts.
and that the real truth may lie somewhere between the "Official Story" and the Official Conspiracy Theory as disseminated by the likes of Alex Jones, Jim Fetzer and Loose Change.
nothing that jones, fetzer and loose change is even remotely plausible. remember , you must have EVIDENCE to bacl up your claims, and the evidence doesn't support anything (well actually everything) that jones, fetzer and LC claim.
The evidence does back up and support what the official reports have stated.
My original point on this thread was that neither al-Qaeda nor any other Arab group had the means to pull of 9/11.
despite evidence that they were?
I maintain that the 9/11 hijackings were far more complex to be compared to any Arab hijacking in the past.
And you think they couldn't? Why? you think that they are uneducated? please. They dont exactly live in caves or haven't gone to school ? You do know that many of the hijackers were college educated? IF you bothered to research you'd have known that it was quite possible and not complex for them to pull of the hijackings.
There was nothing complex about 9/11 . To think there was, shows your ignorance about how security was before 9/11, and how easy it was for immigrants to be granted entrance into our country.
YOu do know they spent nearly a year studying, researching, attending schools here and of course, doing "test" runs of their plans prior to 9/11.
All this planning, and you believe that it was "too complex"?
With regards to the complexity of the 9/11 hijackings, we must contend with the fact that there were undoubtedly guns on board.
Sorry, no proof of guns. All we know is through various taped converations taken on the planes that day, that there could have been guns. All a terrorist had to do was yell "I hAVE A GUN" and not even show it.
Even bank robbers will yell that they have a gun and NEVER show it' but people and the tellers do as they are told.
They also claimed to have bombs as well. But no one claimed to have seen a gun or even a bomb.
This is of huge importance. Guns in the possession of the hijackers is indicated in the phone calls made from UAL93 by Tom Burnett to his wife.
You misinterpreted his call. He claimed that they had guns. But he didn't state that he saw the guns. The rest of the conversation is his wife's interpretation; and sorry, that doesn't prove that there were indeed guns
Now I'm glad I'm on this forum, because if I was on a Truther forum, everyone would start screaming that all the phone calls are fake, because Loose Change has them brainwashed as such. But we know the calls are not fake; they are real. This is compelling evidence of guns in the possession of the hijackers. It is something that defenders of the official story must think long and hard about. It ought to bother you if you believe the official story of knife wielding Arabs. But there is more.
Again, anyone can shout (pre-9/11) that they had guns, but didn't have to show that they did.
Betty Ong called from AAL11 and reported one of the hijackers came from seat 9B, and an injured passenger in seat 10B. Based on that phone call, the FAA filed a report on the day of 9/11 stating that one of the hijackers (Suqami) sitting in seat 10B had shot passenger Daniel Lewin in seat 9B. (I can't post the link but it is on worldnetdaily website.) How they came to that conclusion is a mystery since the evidence clearly indicates the opposite happened-- but we'll discuss that another day. The report was filed on the day of the event, but was withdrawn later under suspicious circumstances. The story was changed to that Lewin was stabbed. Obviously the FAA learned what the official story was supposed to be, so they changed their original report that reflected Ong's report of guns.
Worldnetdaily isn't exactly credible so their initial report is something to be taken with a grain of salt.
So we have two credible witnesses on the planes reporting guns.
No we have two eyewitnesses whose statements have been misinterpreted by other people. We cannot conclude from their statements that there were indeed guns; just that they believed that there were guns and the terrorists aboard had them. The only documented call was Burnetts, but the 'allusion' that there were guns was done by his wife. NOT by Burnett.
We also have the circumstance that eight pilots on four flights were taken out without being able to send any kind of distress signal.
There really isn't a button one presses to send out a distress signal. And all the terrorists had to do was take a stewardess under their control and make her open the cabin door. under the guise that she was goin to get them water or had to speak to the captain. in an instant, the terrorists only had to push her aside, push the door open and kill the pilots before they even knew what was going on. The cabin doors weren't exactly bullet proof or even reinforced. They were flimsy "wooden" doors that closed and open easily.
We have the government and media seeming to suppress the credible accounts of guns on board from Deena Burnett and the FAA report.
Deena Burnett is only concluding what her husband meant. She however, wasn't aboard those planes to give a definite account, and sadly her husband is the only one who could have been able to clarify; did he see the guns? or didn't he? or he just believed they had guns (and a bomb) or didn't he. We will never know.
Getting knives on board is no easy feat.
Actually it was quite easy prior to 9/11. I actually brought on a japanese sword onto the plane because it was an heirloom from my relatives in Japan. However, it had to be peace bonded and put into their coat/jacket rack. I've also taken Three shurikens, a pair of scissors, razors, and a box cutter (since i had to send through a wrapped box on one flight and needed to open it as soon as I got to my desitnation). All ignored by those who checked the baggage for carryons and the xray.
And they were not legal-- nor were boxcutters-- despite what you may have heard.
they may or may not have been legal, but the "checkers" didn't really pay that much attention prior to 9/11. One time I walked through with
And there were many conflicting reports at each airport (prior to 9/11) on what could and could not be brought on a plane. There wasn't exactly an across the board "do not bring this on a plane" list.
Getting guns on a plane is obviously a hundred times more difficult than that, and is probably impossible without inside connections in the airport security apparatus.
Oh that's been proven false loads of times prior to 9/11
Did you know that airport security at all three airports-- BOS, EWR, and IAD-- was contracted out to the same foreign-owned firm?
so what?
Why did the hijackers bother with knives when they had guns?
Because they didn't have guns? because knives were a lot easier to sneak through (prior to 9/11) than guns would have been. They could have used SCISSORS prior to 9/11.
Why is the media and government suppressing information about the guns?
Becuase there were none? You might want ot review those tapes without other people;s interpetations and see if anyone on those planese stated they saw a gun.
Were the knives part of a stage-show on the planes, to impress on the passengers that they were being attacked by a bunch of fanatical, savage Arabs
Knives are DANGEROUS NO matter how much you are downplaying their lethality right now. Ever had the pleasure of being stabbed by one? I was when I was 13 (stabbed in the leg). And when i was taken to the hospital with my knife wound, I happened to be next to a guy who had a steak knife through his freaking heart.
In close quarters as on a plane, they can be frightening.
so that they would pass that along in their phone calls and in that way frame the Arabs in the minds of Americans?
as reported many times,. the hijackers were up front in the cabing, and probably woorrying about flying the planes. the passengers were in the back; since the hijakcers were on a one way mission of no return, i dont think they cared what these americans on these planes were doing.
