Haig and his Sun caused earthquakes

Haig said:
Most of us are taxpayers and most science is paid out of tax, so they have a duty to make it understandable to the paying public.
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No. First, this places the whole burdon on the scientists--the public, under this model, gets to dictate the terms of the conversation to scientists, based on the fact that they are the ones who are ignorant of what's being discussed! Secondly, this argument is nothing more than the typical university student scream of "You can't fail me; I'm paying your sallary!" It mistakes the dynamic here. We don't pay scientists to baby us; we pay scientists to provide information about the universe around us. If you're too lazy to educate yourself, you don't get to participate in the discussion. I'm okay with you not wanting to pay for it (I'm in the private sector; doesn't affect me at all), but you dont' get to tell us how to do it when you've opted out yourself.
 
For the Sun to trigger earthquakes, volcanoes and major weather events on Earth some coupling mechanism is needed.

NASA have shown the way forward in this ...

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun
A magnetic portal will open, linking Earth to the sun 93 million miles away. Tons of high-energy particles may flow through the opening before it closes again, around the time you reach the end of the page.
"It's called a flux transfer event or 'FTE,'" says space physicist David Sibeck of the Goddard Space Flight Center. "Ten years ago I was pretty sure they didn't exist, but now the evidence is incontrovertible."
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"I think there are two varieties of FTEs: active and passive." Active FTEs are magnetic cylinders that allow particles to flow through rather easily; they are important conduits of energy for Earth's magnetosphere. Passive FTEs are magnetic cylinders that offer more resistance; their internal structure does not admit such an easy flow of particles and fields. (For experts: Active FTEs form at equatorial latitudes when the IMF tips south; passive FTEs form at higher latitudes when the IMF tips north.)
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Spacequakes Rumble Near Earth
A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself.
"Magnetic reverberations have been detected at ground stations all around the globe, much like seismic detectors measure a large earthquake," says THEMIS principal investigator Vassilis Angelopoulos of UCLA.
It's an apt analogy because "the total energy in a spacequake can rival that of a magnitude 5 or 6 earthquake," according to Evgeny Panov of the Space Research Institute in Austria
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"We've long suspected that something like this was happening," says Sibeck. "By observing the process in situ, however, THEMIS has discovered something new and surprising."
The surprise is plasma vortices, huge whirls of magnetized gas as wide as Earth itself, spinning on the verge of the quaking magnetic field.
Spacequakes (vortices, 200px)
A THEMIS map of plasma flows during a spacequake. The axes are labeled in Earth radii, so each swirl is about the size of Earth. [larger image]
"When plasma jets hit the inner magnetosphere, vortices with opposite sense of rotation appear and reappear on either side of the plasma jet," explains Rumi Nakamura of the Space Research Institute in Austria, a co-author of the study. "We believe the vortices can generate substantial electrical currents in the near-Earth environment."
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An excellent paper discusses energy transfer from the solar wind, its distribution within the magnetosphere, and finally dissipation to the ionosphere.

Spatial variation of energy conversion at the Earth's magnetopause: Statistics from Cluster observations
We compare these statistics with Grand Unified Magnetosphere Ionosphere Coupling Simulation version 4 (GUMICS 4) global magnetohydrodynamic simulation results and find that there is a reasonable agreement, although disagreements are also found especially during lobe reconnection. We also investigate the influence of IMF magnitude on the load and generator locations and suggest that the spatial mixing of load and generators is due to rapid movement of the magnetopause surface which in turn moves the locations where load and generator processes appear. The solar wind dynamic pressure controls the magnitude of energy conversion across the magnetopause such that higher dynamic pressures lead to more energy conversion. A similar dependence is observed for IMF magnitude as well.
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Something else to think about ...

Magnetic Reconnection vs Double Layers
Magnetic reconnection is something that has supposedly been "tested" and proven in the lab yet for some reason the lab results keep coming out "wrong." Currently when scientists create a "reconnection" event in the lab between two electrically charged plasma sheets the "reconnection" event takes place at twice the speed MHD theory predicts. So far no one has been able to rectify this problem, nor have they been able to produce a "reconnecting" magnetic field without first applying current to the plasma sheets they are observing. The reason being obvious of course, in order to create a magnetic field, one must first induce an electrical current. So far, this is the only known way of producing a magnetic field in a plasma that can be tested. As soon as the current shuts off, so too does the magnetic field. Magnetic reconnection is proposed to account for the sudden bursts of observed kinetic energies that power the aurora's substorms and light up the polar skies. It’s also proposed to account for about a billion other phenomena that I will not get into here.
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Another known property of charged plasma that can explain the sudden and dramatic bursts of kinetic energy we see in the aurora substorms is something called an “exploding double layer.” Given that we have parallel currents and double layers in the surrounding regions of earths magnetosphere; a simple explanation arises for the sudden substorms:
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Hannes Alfvén, a Nobel Laureate, being the founding father of MHD theory that magnetic reconnection is predicated on. This leaves us with two competing models to describe the function of the Aurora and other astrophysical plasmas, one being based on a theory that violates known laws of physics, the other being based on known properties of conducting plasmas.
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Hannes Alfvén, a Nobel Laureate, being the founding father of MHD theory that magnetic reconnection is predicated on.
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Well if someone wants to "debunk" magentic reconnection, then they should at least get their knowledge of mainstream plasma physics correct.

Any real plasma physicist knows that MHD as Hannes Alfvén wrote it up, and deservedly obtained the Nobel prize for its development, cannot show magnetic reconnection. So any claim, as above, that "MHD theory that magnetic reconnection is predicated on" is utter nonsense.

Futher developments like resistive Hall-MHD, i.e. gradually moving from ideal Alfven MHD towards actual plasma physics again. Reconnection takes place at scales that are NOT included in ideal MHD theory, for example the ion decouple from the magnetic field and you are going to look at scales below the ion gyro radius, which breaks the assumptions of Alfven's MHD.

But hey, it was Suede writing that up in 2009, who can also only quote mine and misinterprete papers because of a lack of knowledge of physics.
 
Haig said:
Carp? Is that you on a fishing trip then? :D
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Evasion noted. You spew pseudoscience and anti-science right and left but when asked to explain it, you hide behind "I'm just the messenger", just like the no-claimers in the conspiracy forum.
 
Haig said:
For the Sun to trigger earthquakes, volcanoes and major weather events on Earth some coupling mechanism is needed.

NASA have shown the way forward in this ...

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun




Spacequakes Rumble Near Earth




An excellent paper discusses energy transfer from the solar wind, its distribution within the magnetosphere, and finally dissipation to the ionosphere.

Spatial variation of energy conversion at the Earth's magnetopause: Statistics from Cluster observations



Something else to think about ...

Magnetic Reconnection vs Double Layers
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So, when you said this, not long ago: "You seem ignorant to the OP where I was invited to support the hypothesis [The title is wrong. Davidson, U-Yen, & Hollmann proposes earthquakes to be triggered by solar activity]", you were lying?

As the Davidson+ document/"hypothesis" contains nothing about "volcanoes and major weather events on Earth", and certainly nothing about "Magnetic Portals", "Spacequakes", "energy transfer from the solar wind", or "Magnetic Reconnection vs Double Layers", it is now crystal clear that what you are doing is presenting your own ideas. But in order to avoid addressing questions on it and challenges to it, you call it Davidson+'s hypothesis. That is, obviously, a lie.
 
Haig said:
For the Sun to trigger earthquakes, volcanoes and major weather events on Earth some coupling mechanism is needed.

NASA have shown the way forward in this ...

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun




Spacequakes Rumble Near Earth




An excellent paper discusses energy transfer from the solar wind, its distribution within the magnetosphere, and finally dissipation to the ionosphere.

Spatial variation of energy conversion at the Earth's magnetopause: Statistics from Cluster observations
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None of which describes the mechanical coupling that would have to occur for a so-called "spacequake" to trigger seismic activity.
 
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Haig said:
It's an electromagnetic coupling that's being proposed as explained here ...
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<snipped HaigspamTM>

Haig, quit misrepresenting the content of your links. There's nothing in any of those links about a coupling mechanism. Hint: bare assertions that such exists is not a mechanism. The last two are laughable pseudoscience; evidently we're supposed to express wonderment at the fact tropical storms and earthquakes sometimes occur in the same timeframe!
 
ferd burfle said:
<snipped HaigspamTM>

Haig, quit misrepresenting the content of your links. There's nothing in any of those links about a coupling mechanism. Hint: bare assertions that such exists is not a mechanism. The last two are laughable pseudoscience; evidently we're supposed to express wonderment at the fact tropical storms and earthquakes sometimes occur in the same timeframe!
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Sure there is ferd you just don't get it's all part of the Sun - Earth connection.

Next you'll be saying you don't believe the Sun can control lightning here on Earth, right?

Evidence for solar wind modulation of lightning

or that lightning and storms aren't linked, right?

Lightning activity and severe storm structure

Mmmm can you see a pattern here ;)
 
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Haig said:
Most of us are taxpayers and most science is paid out of tax, so they have a duty to make it understandable to the paying public.
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Making science understandable to a lay audience is a different skill than actually doing science. If you think there's a problem in science being understood, the solution would be to earmark a certain percentage of scientific funding for science communication.
 
Nothing over the last few days but the obsession with the crank videos from Ben Davidson and spamming the thread with irrelevant links that are not about the Sun and earthquakes.

Haig: 14 delusions about the Sun and earthquakes since 4 May 2015
26 August 2015 Haig: What's the "relative strength" of a solar flare that would suddenly change the rotation of the Earth?
27 August 2015 Haig: Can you understand that an EU conference speaker (Ben Davidson) is deluded?
27 August 2015 Haig: Can you understand that an EU conference speaker (Dr. Kongpop U-yen) is deluded?
27 August 2015 Haig: You cannot support an idea with an unpublished 2010 pre-print on arXiv.org that does not cite the authors of that idea.

27 August 2015 Haig: It is a lie that a NASA article that does not mention that space weather can shake the Earth is "NASA are suggesting the space weather from the Sun can shake the Earth" :eye-poppi!
28 August 2015 Haig: Why did you waste our time with the "theory" of an uneducated in solar or climate science, not published crank?
28 August 2015 Haig: The fantasy of a paper about space weather affecting power grids is about the Sun triggering earthquakes, etc.
This is a candidate for a new delusion if there is no answer, e.g. the paper is irrelevant.

28 August 2015 Haig: Please cite your evidence that the LIA was caused only by the Maunder Minimum.

28 August 2015 Haig: Please cite your evidence that the LIA conditions occur around every 400 years (so we are due for one now).
This is a candidate for a new delusion if there is no answer, e.g. there is no such cycle.

28 August 2015 Haig: Are you wasting our time by linking to every web page mentioning the Sun and earthquakes, etc.? The evidence is yes - even a crank's ignorance about magnetic reconnection stated on a forum raises its ugly head - But hey, it was Suede writing that up in 2009, who can also only quote mine and misinterprete papers because of a lack of knowledge of physics. :p!
 
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Matthew Cline said:
Making science understandable to a lay audience is a different skill than actually doing science. If you think there's a problem in science being understood, the solution would be to earmark a certain percentage of scientific funding for science communication.
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There's an entire industry related to this: science reporting. ScienceDaily, Discover Magazine, National Geographic, and a few other websites, TV channels, magazines, etc. are devoted, more or less, to that. The issue is, it SUCKS. To be honest, half of it doesn't rise to the level of Haig's rantings.
 
Dinwar said:
The issue is, it SUCKS. To be honest, half of it doesn't rise to the level of Haig's rantings.
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Ouch, Dinwar, that's mighty harsh don't you think? :D:D. Actually, I love a good popularization but there aren't very many IMO. I can't be bothered with ones from cable or broadcast TV, and even BBC and Nova are hit or miss.
 
Haig said:
Next you'll be saying you don't believe the Sun can control lightning here on Earth, right?

Evidence for solar wind modulation of lightning
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Oh dear, did you actually read this?

Clearly the existence of suitable weather conditions allowing thunderstorms to form is a pre-requisite for modulation of lightning. The approximately 8 d periodicity seen in peak lightning rates after t = 0 is more comparable with the timescales of weather systems than individual storms though the cause of such a period in our observations remains unexplained. The data presented above does provide evidence that, if weather conditions are suitable to generate active convection and electrified storms, lightning rates appear to be modulated by the SEPs associated with high-speed solar wind streams. Since these high-speed streams co-rotate with the 27 d solar rotation, their arrival at Earth is predictable in advance. This, coupled with an increasing understanding of energetic particle effects on the atmosphere, makes it worthwhile pointing out the potential benefits to forecasting hazardous weather.
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In other words, this is a preliminary assay of a small sample of the evidence, undertaken with the hope that something might come of it. It is not some sort of foregone conclusion that solar flares directly influence lightning.
 
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leonAzul said:
Oh dear, did you actually read this?



In other words, this is a preliminary assay of a small sample of the evidence, undertaken with the hope that something might come of it. It is not some sort of foregone conclusion that solar flares directly influence lightning.
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Oh dear, did you actually read this?

Discussion
Having determined that the arrival of fast solar wind streams at Earth is associated with a subsequent increase in lightning rates, some possible mechanisms can be considered. Figures 4 and 5 present evidence that lightning and thunder rates are enhanced following the passage of an interaction region over similar timescales to the observed depression in GCR fluxes reaching Earth.
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Oh dear, did you actually read this? HERE

Oh dear, did you actually read this? HERE


leonAzul taking ALL the above it's hard not to see the "connection" between our variable Sun and the triggering of earthquakes, volcanoes and major weather events here on Earth as the hypothesis is suggesting, imho :thumbsup:
 
tusenfem said:
Well if someone wants to "debunk" magentic reconnection, then they should at least get their knowledge of mainstream plasma physics correct.

Any real plasma physicist knows that MHD as Hannes Alfvén wrote it up, and deservedly obtained the Nobel prize for its development, cannot show magnetic reconnection. So any claim, as above, that "MHD theory that magnetic reconnection is predicated on" is utter nonsense.

Futher developments like resistive Hall-MHD, i.e. gradually moving from ideal Alfven MHD towards actual plasma physics again. Reconnection takes place at scales that are NOT included in ideal MHD theory, for example the ion decouple from the magnetic field and you are going to look at scales below the ion gyro radius, which breaks the assumptions of Alfven's MHD.

But hey, it was Suede writing that up in 2009, who can also only quote mine and misinterprete papers because of a lack of knowledge of physics.
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Hey tusenfem, maybe you should think again about this "magnetic reconnection" model :D

The serious problem with "reconnection" theory and the sun.
In 2012 however, we discovered that the mainstream solar flare model which requires and predicts "jet speed" convection was actually falsified by two whole orders of magnitude!

http://phys.org/news/2012-07-unexpectedly-motions-sun-surface.html

I even discussed that minor little problem with the mainstream solar flare model with Tom Bridgman of EU/PC hater fame back then too. The silence from the mainstream has been deafening since 2012. They basically lost their entire power source with respect to solar flares, or more correctly, they had their power reduced by 99 percent, so any magnetic flux they had to work with from solar convection speeds was also cut by 99 percent. Ooopsy?

If you read a bit in that first link, the author(s) are basically trying to ignore the formation of flux ropes in the atmosphere, and certainly it's an electophobic oriented concept that all begins and ends and hinges upon the convection speed, and the resulting magnetic fields that can then be moved/waved around in the solar convection cells that we observe in the photosphere. Their entire magnetic reconnection model of solar flares was based upon a now falsified premise, namely that the convection speeds would be something on the order of jet speed, thereby generating large scale magnetic fields, whereas the "observed reality" is about 1 percent of that "predicted value" they made, closer to walking speed in fact. Epic fail!
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