Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

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For those who don't want to download the paper, but are interested in the real conclusions of the paper (instead of Sol's childish tantrum):

The high resolution observations of dust jets arising from the nu-
cleus of comet 67P from August 2014 to May 2015 led us to pro-
pose a new scenario explaining both the formation of cometary
jets and the presence of erosional features seen on many comets.
Our findings can be summarized as follows:
–
Seasonal and diurnal variations of activity in the Northern
hemisphere of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko are well
correlated with solar illumination, hence linked to volatile
sources within the diurnal thermal skin depth of the surface.
–
We have presented observational evidence that Northern jets
arise in majority from rough terrains rather than smooth ar-
eas, more specifically from fractured walls.
–
We interpret this activity as a combination of meter scale jets
accelerated in fractures, and decameter scale flows arising
from the mast wasted brighter debris at the cliff foot.
–
Our findings imply that erosion of the comet surface takes
place preferentially along these active cliffs, and therefore
they should be showing the most significant changes, some
of them already observed.
–
Activity driven erosion of clifs occurs in many places on
67P, and may have been observed on 9P and 81P. we propose
that this is a general process taking place on all comets.
Click to expand...
 
Sol88 said:
Just for a laugh

Are fractured cliffs the source of cometary dust jets ?
insights from OSIRIS/Rosetta at 67P



and guess where the main activity is Reality check... :)
Click to expand...

So where is it coming from, Sol? Please point us to the Official EU Electric Comet Theory (it seems to change regularly; always the sign of a robust hypothesis). List its conclusions. Then present the evidence for them.
In the meantime I'll dig out my list of evidence that shows it to be utter b*llocks, dreamed up by a mythologist and a retired engineer, with later contributions by some bloke who does whatever it is Anariba does.

By the way: Jean-Baptiste Vincent: [email protected]. Why not e-mail him, and tell him what he's got wrong? It's what I did to your Anariba eejit. He had no comeback. I suspect J-B V might. You just wouldn't understand it.
 
Sol88 said:
Just for a laugh

Are fractured cliffs the source of cometary dust jets ?
insights from OSIRIS/Rosetta at 67P

and guess where the main activity is Reality check... :)
Click to expand...

Perhaps you'd like to also list what you think is actually missing from 'the standard theory'?
Subsurface ice? Found it. Years ago. Keep finding it.
Surface ice? Wouldn't expect much; tends to sublimate, but also present.
Dirt, i.e. dust? Check.
Low density indicative of ice/dust with high porosity? Check.
Sublimation in action? Check.

So what is missing, Sol? Apart from any electric woo, of course.
Please explain.
 
Sol88 said:
Are fractured cliffs the source of cometary dust jets ?
insights from OSIRIS/Rosetta at 67P

and guess where the main activity is Reality check... :)
Click to expand...
Guess how ignorant that makes you about what you cite and the contents of this thread, Sol88 - not surprising for a follower of the Thunderbolts cult :jaw-dropp!
Reality Check said:
N.B. The fractured cliffs are cliffs within rough terrain on 67P. e.g. pits, craters and scarps.
Click to expand...

Another lie from Sol88 about the real world where that quote does not appear in the paper as tusenfem points out.
For those who don't want to download the paper, but are interested in the real conclusions of the paper (instead of Sol's childish tantrum)

This paper is not about Sol88 delusions that comets are rocks, etc. It is the tracing of jets to places that the electric comet delusion says that they cannot come form, e.g. the sides of pits, as I listed from the main body of the paper :eek:. From the paper:
Fig. 10. Summary of the direct inversion technique. Left panel: jets are identified in two different images, only one is shown here, see Figure 11 for the full sequence. Middle panel: triangulation, for each image we know the precise position and attitude of the spacecraft. From this we define the planes of jets (spacecraft, line of sight, observed jet direction). The intersection between these planes defines the jet in three dimensions, and we calculate their intersection with the surface. Right panel: Knowing sources and directions, plus some assumptions on grains velocity, we can reconstruct the jets trajectories (yellow lines)
Click to expand...
The jets are traced to the side of the neck of 67P.
Fig. 11. 10 WAC images from a sequence acquired on 10 September 2014, from a distance of 29 km and a sub-spacecraft latitude of +48 ◦ . The sequence shows the diurnal variation of activity over 9 hours (72%) of nucleus rotation. Every view is separated from the previous one by about 1h (30 ◦ of nucleus rotation). Sun and comet North pole are pointing up in these images. Brightness levels are stretched linearly to emphasize the 5% least bright pixel values.
Click to expand...
Mostly jets from inside the neck of 67P!
Fig. 12. 25 WAC images from a sequence acquired on 22 November 2015, from a distance of 29 km and a sub-spacecraft latitude of -57 ◦ . The sequence shows the diurnal variation of activity over 10.8 hours of rotation (88% of the total period). Every view is separated from the previous one by about 20 minutes (10 ◦ of nucleus rotation). There is a gap of 2 hours between the fourth and last rows and after the last image due to spacecraft navigation slots. Sun and comet North pole are pointing up in these images. Brightness levels are stretched linearly to emphasize the 5% least bright pixel values.
Click to expand...
Some of the jets are from inside the neck of 67P!
Fig. 13. 25 NAC images from a sequence acquired on 12 April 2015, from a distance of 149 km and a sub-spacecraft latitude of -48 ◦ . The sequence shows the diurnal variation of activity over a full period. Every view is separated from the previous one by about 30 minutes (15 ◦ of nucleus rotation). There is a four hours gap between the last two observations. Sun and comet North pole are pointing up in these images. Brightness levels are stretched linearly to emphasize the 5% least bright pixel values.
Click to expand...
Several jets from inside the neck of 67P!

The parroting of the Thunderbolt cult ignorance, delusions and lies in this thread alone (continuation of a thread that is now 6 years of delusions from Sol88 and Haig!).
10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc. mostly cited by Haig.
202 days and counting of fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.
 
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Let's be honest, chaps. They've given up. This Anariba nonsense has been on Dunderblogs for over a week, and none of the scientifically challenged creatures who inhabit that place have bothered to comment upon it. We all know why. It's dead.
We even have people questioning whether dunderdolts should take any more notice of the cretin Thornhill. That they won't ever be taken serious (that much is true) as long as they are associated with the eejit. Perhaps they're not all as retarded as I gave them credit for.
Well done chaps, try to find someone who actually understands astrophysics. Otherwise, ST*U. Not to put too fine a point on it.
 
jonesdave116 said:
Let's be honest, chaps. They've given up. This Anariba nonsense has been on Dunderblogs for over a week, and none of the scientifically challenged creatures who inhabit that place have bothered to comment upon it. We all know why. It's dead.
We even have people questioning whether dunderdolts should take any more notice of the cretin Thornhill. That they won't ever be taken serious (that much is true) as long as they are associated with the eejit. Perhaps they're not all as retarded as I gave them credit for.
Well done chaps, try to find someone who actually understands astrophysics. Otherwise, ST*U. Not to put too fine a point on it.
Click to expand...

Given up???? NO just watching the mainstream :dig: and having a little laugh as well.

Fig. 4.
Scenario of surface evolution describing how the regressive ero-
sion of cliffs can expose volatiles and lead to localized activity So the cliff walls are a mixture of an unkown ratio of dust and ice (and ROCK)...I like that one be cause we observed the "ICY CLIFFS" recede some 50m on Tempel , So cliffs are composed of ICE righto, go it.

but what keeps them collimated, I hear you ask?

easy...

gas pressure!!!
The gas flows arising from
all these features will compete against each other and the topography, leading to a focused je
Click to expand...
 
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The main constraint on our problem is that gas flows in the
jets must be able to lift the dust grains other instruments have
collected around the comet. These grains are quite large for
comet standards.
Click to expand...

So sublimating "ice" has the power to dislodge and entrain large grains of dust... righto got it!
 
jonesdave116 said:
Perhaps you'd like to also list what you think is actually missing from 'the standard theory'?
Subsurface ice? Found it. Years ago. Keep finding it.
Surface ice? Wouldn't expect much; tends to sublimate, but also present.
Dirt, i.e. dust? Check.
Low density indicative of ice/dust with high porosity? Check.
Sublimation in action? Check.

So what is missing, Sol? Apart from any electric woo, of course.
Please explain.
Click to expand...

Lets throw
ESA’s Rosetta spacecraft has made the first in situ detection of oxygen molecules outgassing from a comet
Click to expand...

and

Cometary Hydrogen Cloud

into the mix :)

So, must be a lot of very well hidden subsurface water ice! :D

And the gravity is so strong I can jump off a comet and acheive escape velocity but it has enough oomph to hold an extensive hydrogen envelope (for example, the hydrogen envelope surrounding comet Hale Bopp was 100 million km wide!)

WoW fluffysnowydirtyiceyballs are truley amazing!
 
Sol88 said:
Lets throw ...
Click to expand...
more delusions into the mix, Sol88 :eek:!
ESA’s Rosetta spacecraft has made the first in situ detection of oxygen molecules outgassing from a comet is mainstream science not Thunderbolts cult dogma about comets being rock.

And total ignorance from you, Sol88 - what a surprise! The faint sodium tail of Comet Hale-Bopp was measured to be 50 million km long. The coma would be much smaller (they are thousands to about a million kilometers wide). The Thunderbolts cult does not seem to have the delusion of a 100 million kilometer wide coma!

The parroting of the Thunderbolt cult ignorance, delusions and lies in this thread alone (continuation of a thread that is now 6 years of delusions from Sol88 and Haig!).
10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc. mostly cited by Haig.
202 days and counting of fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.
 
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Sol88 said:
So sublimating "ice" has the power to dislodge and entrain large grains of dust... righto got it!
Click to expand...
Obviously not since there is no "ice" on comets, Sol88. There is actual physical ices on comets. The gases from the sublimating ices has the power to dislodge and entrain grains of dust.
 
 
Sol88 said:
but what keeps them collimated, I hear you ask?
Click to expand...
Certainly not your ignorance abut what you cite, Sol88, or a lie by quote mining. Without your mining the paper introduction refers to previous research:
Several solutions have been proposed, from localized physical mechanisms on the surface/sub-surface (see review in Belton (2010)) to purely dynamical processes involving the focusing of gas flows by the local topography (Keller et al. 1994; Crifo et al. 2002).
Click to expand...
 
Great, as long as we agree that the cliffs of Hathor are indeed "ice" and the boulders are also "ice" that was a some point part of the cliff.

I though this was very telling statement as well...
If fractures act as nozzle for the gas flows, efectively leading to the formation of jets, it means that they also define the smallest possible jets. All missions to comets have resolved jets as small
as the spatial scale of their observations, pushing down the lower
limit but not fixing it.
Click to expand...

So how small do the nozzels have to be???

Ohhh, I forgot, you don't need nozzels
The gas flows arising from
all these features will compete against each other and the topography, leading to a focused je
Click to expand...

Why no mention of the electrical effects on the dust???

2.3. Electrostatic dust levitation and ejection
Click to expand...

Just not important I guess.

Still, if we can get that heat down into the hidden "ice" then the story still has legs, even when out past Jupiter!
 
Great, as long as we agree that the cliffs of Hathor are indeed "ice" and the boulders are also "ice" that was a some point part of the cliff.

I though this was very telling statement as well...
If fractures act as nozzle for the gas flows, efectively leading to the formation of jets, it means that they also define the smallest possible jets. All missions to comets have resolved jets as small
as the spatial scale of their observations, pushing down the lower
limit but not fixing it.
Click to expand...

So how small do the nozzels have to be???

Ohhh, I forgot, you don't need nozzels
The gas flows arising from
all these features will compete against each other and the topography, leading to a focused je
Click to expand...

Why no mention of the electrical effects on the dust???

2.3. Electrostatic dust levitation and ejection
Click to expand...

Just not important I guess.

Still, if we can get that heat down into the hidden "ice" then the story still has legs, even when out past Jupiter!
 
Sol88 said:
Great, as long as we agree that the cliffs of Hathor are indeed "ice" and the boulders are also "ice" that was a some point part of the cliff.
Click to expand...
Rational people do not agree with delusions abut "ice" in quotes when comets are made of ices and dust, Sol88.

We do agree with a complete absence of reading incomprehension from a Thunderbolts cult follower. You quote the paper stating that fractures could act as nozzles to form the collimated jets that the paper is about and then another quote from the introduction about topology (e.g. fractured cliffs) creating jets :jaw-dropp!
You double up on the inability to understand what you read by asking "So how small do the nozzels have to be???".
If fractures act as nozzle for the gas flows, effectively leading to the formation of jets, it means that they also define the smallest possible jets. All missions to comets have resolved jets as small as the spatial scale of their observations, pushing down the lower limit but not fixing it.
Click to expand...
is not about the size of fractures. It is about the size of the resolution of observations. Then the authors suggest that the smallest jets that can be observed are "constrained to the fracture dimensions of a couple of meters wide at most".

Followed by the idiocy of every paper must mention every subject that you think up, Sol88.
Are fractured cliffs the source of cometary dust jets ? insights from OSIRIS/Rosetta at 67P is about sources of cometary dust jets!
Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity is not about cometary dust jets!
:dl:

The parroting of the Thunderbolt cult ignorance, delusions and lies in this thread alone (continuation of a thread that is now 6 years of delusions from Sol88 and Haig!).
10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc. mostly cited by Haig.
203 days and counting of fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.
 
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Exposed water ice on the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko
www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature16190.html (paywalled)

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2016/01/13/exposed-ice-on-rosettas-comet-confirmed-as-water/

"In the latest study, which focuses on scans between September and November 2014, the team confirms that two areas several tens of metres across in the Imhotep region that appear as bright patches in visible light, do indeed include a significant amount of water ice.
The ice is associated with cliff walls and debris falls, and was at an average temperature of about –120ºC at the time.
In those regions, pure water ice was found to occupy around 5% of each pixel sampling area, with the rest made up of the dark, dry material."
 
Sol88 said:
Still, if we can get that heat down into the hidden "ice" then the story still has legs, even when out past Jupiter!
Click to expand...

That just shows yet more ignorance heaped upon ignorance. NOT hidden. FOUND. QED. Game over. Years ago. I'm not posting all the links again. Try reading them. The only thing hidden at this comet is all the electric woo that we were promised by you, Haig and Talbott. Proving to be more hidden than a very hidden thing.
 
Sol88 said:
So sublimating "ice" has the power to dislodge and entrain large grains of dust... righto got it!
Click to expand...

Instead of asking silly questions, why don't you actually do some research for yourself?
Come back to us when you've found the gas velocity for sublimating H2O on a comet.
Tip: it's not the same as on Earth. Take it from there.
 
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