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Old 26th November 2019, 02:33 AM   #881
Sol88
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
You are mixing papers, and locations of current(sheet)s, but then, hey, who cares about such tiny details.



No, sharp boundary between inside and outside of the diamagnetic cavity.
Learn to READ COMPREHENSIVELY.
Are your onion layers before the diamagnetic cavity boundary?
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:02 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
An exploration of the effectiveness of artificial mini-magnetospheres as a potential solar storm shelter for long term human space missions

More to come on the "diamagnetic" cavity.
More gibberish to come. You can't even explain why they form at comets and not asteroids. You didn't even know they were there, despite a large amount of literature going back to the mid-80s. Your problem remains - no electric woo inside the cavity. No electric woo on the surface even before the cavity has formed. As observed.
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:03 AM   #883
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Are your onion layers before the diamagnetic cavity boundary?
Does the IMF stop before the observed cavity, where there is no magnetic field? What do you think?
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:07 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The electric comet...
That's not an answer to my specific question, and your quote is unsourced.

Quote:
NOT the model mainstream still cling too [sic]
It'll be hard to uncling people from that model when you can't be arsed to present evidence or answer simple questions.
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:23 AM   #885
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Are your onion layers before the diamagnetic cavity boundary?
Still waiting for an answer to this question. "Explain why current scientific knowledge is unacceptable to you?"
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Old 26th November 2019, 06:40 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Are your onion layers before the diamagnetic cavity boundary?
did you actually read my paper? then you would know
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Old 26th November 2019, 06:44 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
did you actually read my paper? then you would know
Reading? Why, he might actually learn something. Can't take the chance.
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Old 26th November 2019, 12:28 PM   #888
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science.
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Old 26th November 2019, 12:32 PM   #889
Reality Check
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science.
Sol88 insanely writes the title of a paper about solar wind "storm shelters". The paper is An exploration of the effectiveness of artificial mini-magnetospheres as a potential Solar Storm shelter for long term human space missions and makes Sol88 citing it absolutely insane. The paper states that their artificial magnetic field needs a magnetic field strength of "the order of 100s nanoTesla" from the spacecraft to create a diamagnetic cavity. Sol88 has the insanity that diamagnetic cavities do not exist - see the scare quotes in his posts! Sol88 has the insanity of comet nuclei having a 100 nanoTesla strong magnetic field when the evidence is an upper limit of 2 nanoTesla and probably zero Tesla. The magnetic field measured in the coma of 67P had a strength less than 50 nanoTesla - Figure 1 in Structure and evolution of the diamagnetic cavity at comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko

The diamagnetic cavity Soll88 is insanely obsessed with is real but we have his insanity of scare quotes ! It is a detected cavity in the induced magnetic field of the comet coma. When Rosetta went through the cavity, the magnetometers measured a sharp drop in the magnetic field strength of the coma down to close to zero.

Last edited by Reality Check; 26th November 2019 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 26th November 2019, 02:09 PM   #890
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
did you actually read my paper? then you would know
Quote:
The different directions of the nested draped magnetic field lead to the creation of current sheets through Ampčre’s law:
True? Currents produce magnetic fields?

So, we have current sheets and for a comet would take the visual form we observe in a comet. These current sheets fold around the head At undisclosed distances from the nucleus.

These are then stretched into tube like field aligned currents that flow up and down the tail.

Quote:
Interestingly, one would expect that when oppositely directed magnetic fields are pressed together in the coma around the nucleus, magnetic reconnection would take place.

Verigin et al. [1987] observed, during a short interval, accelerated ions near comet 1PHalley during the Vega 1 flyby, indicative of magnetic reconnection.
Quote:
In a follow-up paper Kirsch et al. [1990] studied spikes of 5 to 15 min duration in the high energy particle flux, which seemed to be related to regions of oppositely directed magnetic fields, including also strong changes in the pitch angles of the high energy particles, which they considered evidence for field line merging processes.
Or an electric field... magnetic reconnection...

This is what would happen if these nested current sheets, close suddenly.

Quote:
assumes that (part) of this current can suddenly be channeled through the cometary atmosphere, in a similar way to what happens in the Earth’s tail during a substorm [Bostr¨om, 1974]. This field-aligned current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
But back to the diamagnetic cavity...

Quote:
Next to that, the discovery of the diamagnetic cavity around comet 67PChuryumov-Gerasimenko [67PCG, Goetz et al., 2016a] calls for a current sheet on the boundary between the magnetic and non-magnetic regions. Using a statistical study Goetz et al. [2016b] showed that there is a current sheet of up to 1 µAm2 on this boundary.
Ok, so the current stops the magnetic field of the solar wind, not ion/electron- Neutrals collisions.

We good here jonesdave116?

Anywhoo, further to my original vague question, where are is the first layer of current sheet felt by the solar wind?

Oh..

Quote:
Significant deflection of the solarwind and draping is was clearly seen already in the very first observations by Nilsson et al.

So straight up and thru the whole escorts phase.

Quote:
One of the characteristics of the kind of current sheets, discussed in this paper, is that the ion and electron density increases inside the sheet whilst the magnetic field strength decreases
So a decrease in magnetic field strength, interesting.

Quote:
It shows that there are clear boundaries between Sunward and anti-Sunward directed magnetic field intervals, and also here, nested draping is an important factor in the build-up of the comet’s induced magnetosphere. The different regions in Fig. 3 are on the order of 1 hour duration.
Ok, but then...

Quote:
9 Are current sheets boundaries?

The region where Rosetta is making measurements is totally dominated by pick-up ions, and no solar wind ions are measured since the beginning of May 2015 [Behar et al., 2016b].
so the diamagnetic cavity...

Quote:
However, the change in solar wind magnetic field direction will lead to a change in the convective electric field that the freshly created ions will experience.
Quote:
This can cause a difference in the plasma population if the rotation of the magnetic field is significant.
Electrons? Negatively charged dust? Complicates things.

Quote:
Naturally, this can easily be a result of large gyro radii of the freshly picked-up ions.
so the ions are outa there as we see in Deca...

Current sheets in comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko’s coma M. Volwerk

So no real distance info on the first current sheet layer because Rosetta was hugging the comet.
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Last edited by Sol88; 26th November 2019 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 26th November 2019, 02:11 PM   #891
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Quote:
Conclusions. The ambipolar and polarisation electric fields both have a significant influence on the motion of cometary ions. This demonstrates the importance of space charge effects in comet plasma physics.
Ok, so how does this apply to nested current sheets?
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Old 26th November 2019, 02:27 PM   #892
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science.
An insane "currents produce magnetic fields?" question !
Insanity of visible current sheets that we have never observed visually !
Insane delusions about where current sheets go.
Insanity about the textbook physics of magnetic connection (MR does not exist is a part of Sol88's insane religious dogma).
Insane lie of a current sheet stopping the solar wind when there is no such statement in the science he quotes.
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Old 26th November 2019, 02:28 PM   #893
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science.
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Old 26th November 2019, 03:23 PM   #894
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Quote:
Ok, so the current stops the magnetic field of the solar wind, not ion/electron- Neutrals collisions.

We good here jonesdave116?
No, you fool. The current sheet is induced by the piled up field! Why the hell is it piling up? Go back to school, and learn basic comprehension. Just stop talking crap, as you are way out of your depth here. As is obvious to anyone reading. Go play on the duinderdolts forum with the other loons.
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Old 26th November 2019, 03:25 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ok, so how does this apply to nested current sheets?
It is a complete irrelevance to your failed woo. The only reason there is draping is due to outgassing. Which shouldn't be there according to your religion. So, epic fail. See Alfven (1957).
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:49 PM   #896
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
It is a complete irrelevance to your failed woo. The only reason there is draping is due to outgassing. Which shouldn't be there according to your religion. So, epic fail. See Alfven (1957).
Ummmm....

Quote:
When a comet enters the region inside the orbit of Jupiter, the solar irradiation is strong enough to start heating the nucleus and for the volatiles to start sublimating.

In order to model the outgassing of a comet at a rate of Q n [molecules s..1], a spherical expansion is assumed where the gas moves away from the nucleus at a velocity of Ve [m/s].

The neutrals gas, escaping from the comet will get ionized by solar UV radiation and/or collisions with the solar wind and ENHANCED impact ionisation when the current flows increse

Using this, the radial dependence of the neutral gas density Nn can be formulated by the Haser [1957] model :
The neutrals gas, escaping from the comet will get ionized by solar UV radiation and/or collisions with the solar wind at a rate of v[s1]. Currents in Cometary Comae

In order to model? formulated by the Haser [1957] model? Way wrong! keeps giving joensdave116's shed loads of "ice" at Tempel 1!

Makes Martin Pätzold's mass loss absolutely on the money!



Mainstreams "outgassing" had already started way before any of jonesdave116's nonsense!

Quote:
At high heliocentric distances, electron-impact ionisation becomes the dominant ionisation source and is enhanced over the winter hemisphere. As the solar activity has decreased since the beginning of the mission in 2014, the relative importance of photo-ionisation has decreased as well.

However, at low heliocentric distances, photo-ionisation seems to be the most dominant ionising source, in particular through the perihelion period in summer 2015.
Ionising sources in the coma of 67P probed by Rosetta
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Last edited by Sol88; 26th November 2019 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:54 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ummmm....



The neutrals gas, escaping from the comet will get ionized by solar UV radiation and/or collisions with the solar wind at a rate of v[s1]. Currents in Cometary Comae

In order to model? formulated by the Haser [1957] model? Way wrong! keeps giving joensdave116's shed loads of "ice" at Tempel 1!

Makes Martin Pätzold's mass loss absolutely on the money!



Mainstreams "outgassing" had already started way before any of jonesdave116's nonsense!

Ionising sources in the coma of 67P probed by Rosetta
And a bunch more irrelevant gibberish. Draping is due to outgassing. The DC is due to outgassing. You have no explanation for those phenomena. Give up.
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Old 26th November 2019, 05:56 PM   #898
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science, posts and posters.
jonesdave116 wrote:
Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
It is a complete irrelevance to your failed woo. The only reason there is draping is due to outgassing. Which shouldn't be there according to your religion. So, epic fail. See Alfven (1957).

Textbook cometary science: The neutral gas (which cannot not exist in Sol88's insane religious dogma !), escaping from sublimating ices on the comet nucleus will be ionized by solar UV radiation and/or collisions with the solar wind.

Sol88's usual insanity about the Haser model using a spherical expansion assumption for outgassing.
Sol88's usual insane lie of "ices" at Tempel 1 when we detected ices .
Sol88's usual insane lie that the Haser model gives the composition of any comet, including Tempel 1. The outgassing Q from sublimating ices is an input to the model.

Sol88's insanity of citing a mainstream paper - and citing it for once !
The Nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko – Part I: The global view – nucleus mass, mass-loss, porosity, and implications by Martin Pätzold et.al.
Quote:
The radio science experiment RSI on-board Rosetta determined the mass of the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko at the start of the prime mission from 2014 August to November (GM = 666.2 ± 0.2 m3 s−2 or 9982 ± 3 × 1012 kg) and shortly before the end of the mission from 2016 July to September (GM = 665.5 ± 0.1 m3 s−2 or 9971.5 ± 1.5 × 1012 kg). The mass-loss is ΔM = 10.5 ± 3.4·109 kg, about 0.1 per cent of the nucleus mass.
That is a measured mass loss that occurred in the real world that Sol88 is completely denying.

Sol88's insane lie of a "mass loss absolutely on the money" when there is no other mass loss in his post, only that measured mass loss.

Sol88 insane lie that a "Ionising sources in the coma of 67P probed by Rosetta " paper is about the onset of outgassing at 67P.

Last edited by Reality Check; 26th November 2019 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 26th November 2019, 08:15 PM   #899
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To save acres more word salad and gibberish (optimistic!), here is a simple question for EC proponents;

Around a comet, the magnetic field from the Sun (IMF) gets 'hung up', and drapes around the comet. Around an asteroid, this does not occur. Why?

Around a comet, a diamagnetic cavity forms, within which the solar wind and IMF are excluded. This does not happen at asteroids. Why?

When a canister of gas is exploded in the solar wind, with not a comet in sight, a diamagnetic cavity is formed. Why?

So, if it isn't interactions due to the gas, can we please have a rational, scientifically valid explanation for what does cause it (super optimistic!!)?

That is all.
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Old 27th November 2019, 12:46 AM   #900
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Apropos of not much at all, I have just downloaded and watched the BBC's latest 'Sky at Night' episode, which was all about the Rosetta mission. Random screenshot from episode below;


(click for larger image)

If there is anybody outside the UK who is interested in watching it, I've uploaded it here;

https://www.filehosting.org/file/det...nl_original.7z

(~930mb download; 7zip file; no password)
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Old 27th November 2019, 02:40 AM   #901
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Jebus Frakkin Kryst

Can you write any more nonsense? Just because you can quote-mine from various papers does not mean that you can put it together and expect to have a (plasma)physically correct story.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
True? Currents produce magnetic fields?
Well apparently you cannot read, in this case it is the magnetic field that drives the currents.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So, we have current sheets and for a comet would take the visual form we observe in a comet. These current sheets fold around the head At undisclosed distances from the nucleus.
The bolded part makes no sense whatsoever.
There are layers of magnetic field in front of the comet, that get draped around it. These layers STOP at the boundary of the diamagnetic cavity (obviously)
There are FIGURES of this, that you might look at and get some understanding.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
These are then stretched into tube like field aligned currents that flow up and down the tail.
NO they do not, they CANNOT!

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Or an electric field... magnetic reconnection...
Hardly, if it would have been able to be generated by an electric field the authors would have said so.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
This is what would happen if these nested current sheets, close suddenly.
This does not make any sense. I am not even going to try to comment any further.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
But back to the diamagnetic cavity...

Ok, so the current stops the magnetic field of the solar wind, not ion/electron- Neutrals collisions.
NO, whatever gives you that impression. What mechanism is there that an electric current can STOP the solar wind? (let me give you a hint, there is none)

The cavity is created by, depending on the activity of the comet, ion-neutral drag for highly active comets like Halley or the Barium experiment, or for less activy comets as 67P/CG a minor contribution of ion-neutral drag and more interaction of the newly formed electrons with the solar wind.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
We good here jonesdave116?
You are never good.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Anywhoo, further to my original vague question, where are is the first layer of current sheet felt by the solar wind?
Clearly, you still don't understand the creation of current sheets through draping. These are not structures already in place around the comet for the solar wind to "interact with", they are created by the solar wind.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So straight up and thru the whole escorts phase.
n;

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So a decrease in magnetic field strength, interesting.
Of course a decrease, as the field goes from one direction to 180 degrees other direction. This is a normal characteristic of a current sheet.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ok, but then...

so the diamagnetic cavity...

Electrons? Negatively charged dust? Complicates things.

so the ions are outa there as we see in Deca...

Current sheets in comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko’s coma M. Volwerk

So no real distance info on the first current sheet layer because Rosetta was hugging the comet.
And futher blahdiblahdiblah

Let's just finish the discussion here, and no longer post in this thread, so it disappears quietly.
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Old 27th November 2019, 02:57 AM   #902
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ok, so how does this apply to nested current sheets?
Not, which you would understand if you would actually try to learn anything from what you are being told.
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Old 27th November 2019, 08:48 PM   #903
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
To save acres more word salad and gibberish (optimistic!), here is a simple question for EC proponents;

Around a comet, the magnetic field from the Sun (IMF) gets 'hung up', and drapes around the comet. Around an asteroid, this does not occur. Why?

Around a comet, a diamagnetic cavity forms, within which the solar wind and IMF are excluded. This does not happen at asteroids. Why?

When a canister of gas is exploded in the solar wind, with not a comet in sight, a diamagnetic cavity is formed. Why?

So, if it isn't interactions due to the gas, can we please have a rational, scientifically valid explanation for what does cause it (super optimistic!!)?

That is all.
Around a comet, the magnetic field from the Sun (IMF) gets 'hung up', and drapes around the comet. Around an asteroid, this does not occur. Why? The active comets you mean? or the Asteroids like Bennu that we did not know they were active till we got up close and personal. Have we even looked at what charge these objects (comets and asteroids) retain?

So more data to be definitive.

Around a comet, a diamagnetic cavity forms, within which the solar wind and IMF are excluded. This does not happen at asteroids. Why?

The object themselves have a charge, this induces a magnetosphere or a plasma sheath. Nested current sheets also play a dominate roll, as ultimately its the electric currents shielding the solar wind from the comet.

Quote:
Immersed in the plasma of the interplanetary medium, a comet may be associated with:

Electrostatic charging of the comet nucleus,[3] and, charging of the dust,[4] resulting in levitation of dust from the comet surface,[4]

Coagulation of grains with opposite potentials,[5] and the opposite process, disruption (break-up) of grains with high potentials,[4]

Plasma instabilities in the tail,[4]

Folding of the interplanetary magnetic field into the tail of the comet (Alfvén’s “folding umbrella” hydromagnetic model, 1957)[6] [7]

A cometary current system including plasma tail streamers separated by a neutral current sheet, with a total current exceeding 108A,[7]

A shock-ionopause current system, a tail current system, and a field-aligned auroral current system,[2]

The flow of such field-aligned currents leading to the generation of strong localized field-aligned electric fields (double layers),[2] [8]

Acceleration of electrons to keV energies in such double layers would lead to the observed enhanced fluxes of suprathermal electrons.[2]

Production of X-rays (e.g. such as those detected from Comet Hyakutake,[9][10][11] confirming the presence of Birkeland currents (field-align currents),[12]

Jets, such as those produced and modelled by Kristian Birkeland’s theory,[13]

The generation of magnetic fields and electric currents in cometary plasma tails, up to a billion Amps, [14] first proposed by Alfvén in 1957,[6] and “strikingly established during the crossing of the plasma tail of Comet Giacobini—Zinner by the ICE spacecraft on September 11, 1985 (Smith et al., 1986)”[15] [7]

Currents in the cometary atmosphere,[16]

Outbursts from the comet nucleus resulting form macroscopic electric double layers,[17]

The origin of comet striae (banding) in dust tails,[18]

Inner coma cometary plasma formation by the critical ionization velocity mechanism,[19] [20]

Filamentary structure in comet tails interpreted as evidence of field-aligned currents (Birkeland currents),[7]

A “cometary aurora” due to “current discharges into the atmosphere from the tail”[21]

Possible ionization of the inner coma due to cross-tail currents closing through the cometary head.[22]
Comet

Any of the above seen?

Any one of the above would stop the IMF, solar wind, plasma in its tracks. No need at all for "outgassing".


When a canister of gas is exploded in the solar wind, with not a comet in sight, a diamagnetic cavity is formed. Why? Because of the difference in mobility of the ions and electrons, along with charge differential from the neutral gas and the solar plasma. Plasma is liberated from the comet via impact ionisation

So, if it isn't interactions due to the gas, can we please have a rational, scientifically valid explanation for what does cause it (super optimistic!!)? Plasma, dense un-magnetised plasma.
Quote:
Conclusions. The warm (5–10 eV) electron population observed throughout the mission is interpreted as electrons retaining the energy they obtained when released in the ionisation process.

The sometimes observed cold populations with electron temperatures below 0.1 eV verify collisional cooling in the coma. The cold electrons were only observed together with the warm population.

The general appearance of the cold population appears to be consistent with a Haser-like model, implicitly supporting also the coupling of ions to the neutral gas. The expanding cold plasma is unstable, forming filaments that we observe as pulses.
ok but

On the ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae says
Quote:
The presence of a non-negligible ambipolar electric field and limited importance of ion-neutral collisional coupling are further supported by observations in the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko by plasma instruments onboard Rosetta that reveal ion speeds several times higher than the neutral expansion velocity.
So I can see you'd be confused, jonesdave116!

One paper says yes the other says no...
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Old 27th November 2019, 09:17 PM   #904
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Around a comet, the magnetic field from the Sun (IMF) gets 'hung up', and drapes around the comet. Around an asteroid, this does not occur. Why? The active comets you mean? or the Asteroids like Bennu that we did not know they were active till we got up close and personal. Have we even looked at what charge these objects (comets and asteroids) retain?

So more data to be definitive.

Around a comet, a diamagnetic cavity forms, within which the solar wind and IMF are excluded. This does not happen at asteroids. Why?

The object themselves have a charge, this induces a magnetosphere or a plasma sheath. Nested current sheets also play a dominate roll, as ultimately its the electric currents shielding the solar wind from the comet.

Comet

Any of the above seen?

Any one of the above would stop the IMF, solar wind, plasma in its tracks. No need at all for "outgassing".


When a canister of gas is exploded in the solar wind, with not a comet in sight, a diamagnetic cavity is formed. Why? Because of the difference in mobility of the ions and electrons, along with charge differential from the neutral gas and the solar plasma. Plasma is liberated from the comet via impact ionisation

So, if it isn't interactions due to the gas, can we please have a rational, scientifically valid explanation for what does cause it (super optimistic!!)? Plasma, dense un-magnetised plasma. ok but

On the ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae says

So I can see you'd be confused, jonesdave116!

One paper says yes the other says no...
As predicted, no answers, just more word salad and gibberish. If an asteroid is active, then what is it outgassing? Why do we need outgassing to deflect and stop the solar wind? It doesn't exist in your woo, so that is a fail, isn't it? You have no explanation for why the solar wind is deflected.

And electric currents don't just appear out of nowhere, except in the fantasy world you inhabit. And they cannot stop the solar wind. As explained. So, that is another fail. And the objects have no charge worth worrying about, and asteroid surfaces will be more charged than comet surfaces when comets are outgassing. No diamagnetic cavity at asteroids. Fail. And how can a charge induce a plasma sheath? Utter drivel. Do tell us - what caused the diamagnetic cavity and field line draping in the AMPTE experiments? The remainder of the exploded canister? Lol. It was the gas. There was nothing else there. We have known this since 1984!

Quote:
Because of the difference in mobility of the ions and electrons, along with charge differential from the neutral gas and the solar plasma. Plasma is liberated from the comet via impact ionisation
^^^^Yet another example of the utter drivel that exposes you as a poser. That crap makes no sense on any level. It is gibberish. How the hell can plasma be liberated via impact ionisation? Of what? There are no neutrals to impact in your woo, and the solar wind is getting nowhere near the comet at perihelion. However, it is permanently striking the surface of asteroids. No plasma woo happening. A little bit of sputtering, as seen at 67P when the solar wind still had access to the surface. Go learn the subject, instead of making a fool of yourself on here. You haven't got a clue. Which is why you fell for this unscientific excrement in the first place.
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:50 AM   #905
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I can just imagine how Sol88 is impressing his surroundings with his sciency speak laced with words like diamagnetic cavity, Birkeland currents, current sheet layers, and so on.
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Old 28th November 2019, 05:14 AM   #906
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No answer eh, Sol?
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Old 28th November 2019, 01:08 PM   #907
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Exclamation Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu, etc.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science, posts and posters.
This is an insanely lying rant that needs to be recorded for everyone in the world to be applied at forever.
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths.

The question that Sol88 quoted was: Around a comet, the magnetic field from the Sun (IMF) gets 'hung up', and drapes around the comet. Around an asteroid, this does not occur. Why?
Sol88 insanely lies that asteroid Bennu has the solar magnetic field wrapping around it.
Sol88 insanely lies that the question was about any charge on comets or asteroids.
Sol88 insanely cites Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system yet again . This is a paper about the dozen or so asteroids that have some comet-like features.
Sol88 repeats his insane ignorance about plasma sheathes which are the layer of plasma next to the wall of a container. This may be his pathetic attempt to hide his double layer insanity of physically impossible DL's at comets: Double layers are conceptually related to the concept of a 'sheath' (see Debye sheath).

Question: Around a comet, a diamagnetic cavity forms, within which the solar wind and IMF are excluded. This does not happen at asteroids. Why?
Answer: Insane gibberish from Sol88. An insane lie from Sol88 of linking to and quoting a comet article in answer to an asteroid question.

Question: When a canister of gas is exploded in the solar wind, with not a comet in sight, a diamagnetic cavity is formed. Why?
Answer: Sol88 emphasizes his Insane ignorance by asking how a diamagnetic cavity is formed yet again !
Another insane lie from Sol88 by citing and quoting from On the ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae.

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Old 28th November 2019, 02:04 PM   #908
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You need plasma for the diamagnetic cavity NOT gas. The gas (neutrals) was ionised (plasma).

We only need “neutrals”, the charged rock that is the comet nucleus, to be turned into a PLASMA. The whole argument about no mechanism and like you said no neutrals no ELECTRIC COMET.

But we have plenty of neutrals, just not ice. For instance what is actually sputtering jonesdave116?

Quote:
A little bit of sputtering, as seen at 67P
ions, ions, ions... all you ever think about! one track mind.

Any way, a plasma was forming around 67P way out at 3AU.

Quote:
Over the northern, summer hemisphere, the solar EUV radiation is found to drive the electron density – with occasional periods when energetic electrons are also significant.

Over the southern, winter hemisphere, photoionization alone cannot explain the observed electron density, which reaches sometimes higher values than over the summer hemisphere; electron-impact ionization has to be taken into account. The bulk of the electron population is warm with temperature of the order of 7–10 eV. For increased neutral densities, we show evidence of partial energy degradation of the hot electron energy tail and cooling of the full electron population.
So a plasma forming around 67P. Not hot enough yet to get to all that “ice” below the subsurface, just itching to start explosively sublimating.

And there is more than enough evidence that the cometary ions and electrons/dust have no effect on the “neutrals”. They are decoupled and do not move spherically away from the comet.
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Old 28th November 2019, 02:12 PM   #909
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Quote:
NO, whatever gives you that impression. What mechanism is there that an electric current can STOP the solar wind? (let me give you a hint, there is none)

The cavity is created by, depending on the activity of the comet, ion-neutral drag for highly active comets like Halley or the Barium experiment, or for less activy comets as 67P/CG a minor contribution of ion-neutral drag and more interaction of the newly formed electrons with the solar wind.
Really? Latest I’ve read suggest very limited contribution of ion-neutral drag ? Like none!


Seems impact ionisation by energetic electrons plays a more dominant contribution to the plasma.

My question, to a plasma physics chappy, were is all this energy coming from?

Heat of the sun?

The “diamagnetic” cavity seems to be trapping some quite energetic electrons...
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Old 28th November 2019, 02:25 PM   #910
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You need plasma for the diamagnetic cavity NOT gas. The gas (neutrals) was ionised (plasma).

We only need “neutrals”, the charged rock that is the comet nucleus, to be turned into a PLASMA. The whole argument about no mechanism and like you said no neutrals no ELECTRIC COMET.

But we have plenty of neutrals, just not ice. For instance what is actually sputtering jonesdave116?

ions, ions, ions... all you ever think about! one track mind.

Any way, a plasma was forming around 67P way out at 3AU.

So a plasma forming around 67P. Not hot enough yet to get to all that “ice” below the subsurface, just itching to start explosively sublimating.

And there is more than enough evidence that the cometary ions and electrons/dust have no effect on the “neutrals”. They are decoupled and do not move spherically away from the comet.
Utter drivel. Why don't you give up? You really haven't got a clue what you are talking about. There are plenty of neutrals, and you can't explain where they come from. And they far outnumber the ions. And where are those ions coming from? Hint for the hard of thinking - they are mostly water ions. Have to be pretty dumb not to be able to figure that out. Especially when we can see ice, and blasted thousands of tonnes of ice out of a comet.
Give it a rest. You are just trolling, and have no idea about the science. You cannot explain why all of your impossible woo is not happening at asteroids. Which is why you ran and hid from Indagator's questions.
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Old 28th November 2019, 02:26 PM   #911
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Really? Latest I’ve read suggest very limited contribution of ion-neutral drag ? Like none!


Seems impact ionisation by energetic electrons plays a more dominant contribution to the plasma.

My question, to a plasma physics chappy, were is all this energy coming from?

Heat of the sun?

The “diamagnetic” cavity seems to be trapping some quite energetic electrons...
You don't even know what impact ionisation is!!!!
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Old 28th November 2019, 02:33 PM   #912
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Quote:
And there is more than enough evidence that the cometary ions and electrons/dust have no effect on the “neutrals”. They are decoupled and do not move spherically away from the comet.
Wrong. Until they are picked up by the solar wind, they just move away from the comet in the direction they started out on. And the solar wind is getting nowhere near the comet. Remember? And the neutrals massively outnumber ions. By, at an educated guess, ~ 106: 1.
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:01 PM   #913
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Exclamation The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science, posts and posters.
An insane lie that we have said that gas forms a diamagnetic cavity when we have been clear that it is plasma.
Gas from any source such as outgassing from a comet is partially ionized, e.g. by UV radiation and the solar wind, to become a plasma. Plasma + solar wind = diamagnetic cavity.

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Old 28th November 2019, 03:08 PM   #914
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Wrong. Until they are picked up by the solar wind, they just move away from the comet in the direction they started out on. And the solar wind is getting nowhere near the comet. Remember? And the neutrals massively outnumber ions. By, at an educated guess, ~ 106: 1.

You up for a paper duel?

And are we squared away with it’s plasma not gas that makes the electric current (nested currents, like Volwerk et als onion layers) this is the ultimate cause of the exclusion of the solar wind?
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:09 PM   #915
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Seems like my 'educated guess' was pretty accurate;

apj519932f2_lr.jpg

From;

ON THE ELECTRON-TO-NEUTRAL NUMBER DENSITY RATIO IN THE COMA OF COMET 67P/CHURYUMOV–GERASIMENKO: GUIDING EXPRESSION AND SOURCES FOR DEVIATIONS
Vigren, E. et al.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...-637X/812/1/54
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:11 PM   #916
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You up for a paper duel?

And are we squared away with it’s plasma not gas that makes the electric current (nested currents, like Volwerk et als onion layers) this is the ultimate cause of the exclusion of the solar wind?
No, it has nothing to do with the exclusion of the solar wind.
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:11 PM   #917
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What’s picking up the ions when the solar wind doesn’t get within cooee of the nucleus? Majic subsurface ice phase changing wizardry?

Or that the plasma already forming from the dust out eat before sublimation, enhanced these plasma phenomena?
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:13 PM   #918
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
No, it has nothing to do with the exclusion of the solar wind.
What? What magnetic field are taking about now then?
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:15 PM   #919
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Seems like my 'educated guess' was pretty accurate;

Attachment 41156

From;

ON THE ELECTRON-TO-NEUTRAL NUMBER DENSITY RATIO IN THE COMA OF COMET 67P/CHURYUMOV–GERASIMENKO: GUIDING EXPRESSION AND SOURCES FOR DEVIATIONS
Vigren, E. et al.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...-637X/812/1/54
Quote:
The underlying model assumes radial movement of the coma constituents and does not account for chemical loss or the presence of electric fields.
No electric fields???

Go grab a coffee champ.
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Old 28th November 2019, 03:15 PM   #920
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Exclamation The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.
Sol88 gives us an insane video from Donald Scott: Voyager 2 and our Solar System's Birkeland Current
Yet another insane rant from Sol88. Insane lie about asteroid Bennu. Insane ignorance about plasma sheaths. Etc.

Sol88's usual insanity which emphasizes Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity and lies about science, posts and posters.
An insane lie of "very limited contribution of ion-neutral drag" existing and being none.
On the ion-neutral coupling in cometary comae
Quote:
In a cometary coma, the ion-neutral decoupling distance, sometimes referred to as the ion exobase or collisionopause, can be defined as the cometocentric distance, rin, where ions, initially moving with the neutral outgassing speed, have a probability of 1/e of not colliding with neutrals on their subsequent journey radially outwards. We present an analytical model for calculating this decoupling distance in the presence of a static radial electric field. We show that for a logarithmically decaying potential, the value of rin can even decrease to ∼15 per cent of its field-free case value. Moreover, already at this distance, the effective ion speed can be expected to markedly exceed the neutral expansion velocity. These analytical results are in line with previous numerical calculations, adapting similar but not identical field profiles. The presence of a non-negligible ambipolar electric field and limited importance of ion-neutral collisional coupling are further supported by observations in the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko by plasma instruments onboard Rosetta that reveal ion speeds several times higher than the neutral expansion velocity.
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