ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags cia , William Colby

Reply
Old 13th September 2009, 01:39 AM   #1
zaphod2016
Graduate Poster
 
zaphod2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,039
The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.

Please help confirm/debunk this quote:

Quote:
The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.
It is attributed to William Colby.

Specifically, this quote has been sourced to this book:

Derailing Democracy: The America the Media Don't Want You to See by David McGowan.

If you use the "Look Inside" link (top left from Amazon) you can see the index (pp 226). I see no mention of Colby, not by himself, nor under Central Intelligence Agency.

Can anyone help me confirm or debunk this quote?

Assuming this book contains this quote, how reliable is the author, David McGowan?


Last edited by zaphod2016; 13th September 2009 at 01:44 AM.
zaphod2016 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 02:13 AM   #2
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
geni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,286
70s? In so far as at that point the CIA was technicaly the world's largest media organisation (there were more CIA employees feeding stories to the media than any one organisation had correspondents) it has a degree of truth.

Obvious problems would be that historicaly at least the CIA has accepted that the british media was MI6 turf and in more recent years has very firmly accepted that it isn't legaly allowed to touch US based media.
geni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 08:39 AM   #3
Eyeron
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,774
I thought it was the Jews. No joke intended.
Eyeron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 10:05 AM   #4
tuc0
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 513
It seems McGowan's book is the only source for this quote, which means it has zero credibility.
tuc0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 02:03 PM   #5
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,057
Here's McGowan's website, where you can learn that rock music of the 1960s was a CIA plot.

Quote:
Another of those icons, and one of Laurel Canyon’s most flamboyant residents, is a young man by the name of David Crosby, founding member of the seminal Laurel Canyon band the Byrds, as well as, of course, Crosby, Stills & Nash. Crosby is, not surprisingly, the son of an Annapolis graduate and WWII military intelligence officer, Major Floyd Delafield Crosby. Like others in this story, Floyd Crosby spent much of his post-service time traveling the world. Those travels landed him in places like Haiti, where he paid a visit in 1927, when the country just happened to be, coincidentally of course, under military occupation by the U.S. Marines.

If there is, as many believe, a network of elite families that has shaped national and world events for a very long time, then it is probably safe to say that David Crosby is a bloodline member of that clan .... If America had royalty, then David Crosby would probably be a Duke, or a Prince, or something similar (I’m not really sure how that **** works). But other than that, he is just a normal, run-of-the-mill kind of guy who just happened to shine as one of Laurel Canyon’s brightest stars. And who, I guess I should add, has a real fondness for guns, especially handguns, which he has maintained a sizable collection of for his entire life. According to those closest to him, it is a rare occasion when Mr. Crosby is not packing heat (John Phillips also owned and sometimes carried handguns). And according to Crosby himself, he has, on at least one occasion, discharged a firearm in anger at another human being. All of which made him, of course, an obvious choice for the Flower Children to rally around. PART 1

Another shining star on the Laurel Canyon scene, just a few years later, will be singer-songwriter Jackson Browne, who is – are you getting as bored with this as I am? – the product of a career military family. Browne’s father was assigned to post-war ‘reconstruction’ work in Germany, which very likely means that he was in the employ of the OSS, precursor to the CIA. As readers of my “Understanding the F-Word” may recall, U.S. involvement in post-war reconstruction in Germany largely consisted of maintaining as much of the Nazi infrastructure as possible while shielding war criminals from capture and prosecution. Against that backdrop, Jackson Browne was born in a military hospital in Heidelberg, Germany.
So yeah, I'd say McGowan's about as credible a source as Christopher Bollyn.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 02:28 PM   #6
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
The link you've posted is outdated, this seems to be his working website. After asking Google to find "Colby" on that site, a reading list turned up with two source descriptions containing the term:

Burton Hersch The Old Boys, Charles Scribner's Son's, 1992
With heavy doses of disinformation, this book traces the origins of the OSS and the Central Intelligence Agency, providing details about the Dulles brothers, Richard Helms, William Donovan, William Bullit, Frank Wisner, William Casey, William Colby, and the rest of the old boy network.

Gordon Thomas Journey Into Madness, Bantam, 1989
Yet another hard-to-find book that is essential reading both for information on MK-ULTRA as well as for background information on Dulles, Helms, Colby, Casey, Gottlieb, Buckley, and various other key players in the CIA.
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 13th September 2009 at 02:29 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 03:33 PM   #7
gtc
Philosopher
 
gtc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,114
Tina Weymouth is the daughter of a Vice Admiral of the US navy and her brother married the daughter of Katherine Graham, the publisher of the Washington Post.

Her band, the Talking Heads, performed a song called 'Don't Worry about the Government'.

Coincidence? I think not.
__________________
gtc is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 03:45 PM   #8
sleahead
Critical Thinker
 
sleahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 406
I was curious about where this quote came from and found that the only source quoted online is McGowans book. So I e-mailed McGowan and asked him where he had got it from. He did not reply.
sleahead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 03:46 PM   #9
zaphod2016
Graduate Poster
 
zaphod2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,039
Originally Posted by tuc0 View Post
It seems McGowan's book is the only source for this quote, which means it has zero credibility.
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Here's McGowan's website, where you can learn that rock music of the 1960s was a CIA plot.
Ok, McGowan is out. That was easy enough.

Has Colby ever said anything remotely similar?

Has a similar been quote been attributed to someone other than Colby?

Do we have a hybrid of multiple quotes here, or total fabrication?

Originally Posted by geni View Post
70s? In so far as at that point the CIA was technicaly the world's largest media organisation (there were more CIA employees feeding stories to the media than any one organisation had correspondents) it has a degree of truth.
[citation needed]

Possibly related:

Operation Mockingbird


From the Wiki:

Quote:
This article may contain original research or unverified claims. Please improve the article by adding references.
This looks like a gateway to wooville. Is there anything to this? Any confirmed, relevant connections between the CIA and major media?

Last edited by zaphod2016; 13th September 2009 at 03:50 PM.
zaphod2016 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 04:11 PM   #10
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by sleahead View Post
I was curious about where this quote came from and found that the only source quoted online is McGowans book. So I e-mailed McGowan and asked him where he had got it from. He did not reply.
When?
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 04:22 PM   #11
sleahead
Critical Thinker
 
sleahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 406
Months ago, CE.
sleahead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2009, 04:35 PM   #12
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
k, thanks.
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2009, 11:53 AM   #13
dropzone
Graduate Poster
 
dropzone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,733
Originally Posted by zaphod2016 View Post
Has Colby ever said anything remotely similar?
I'm not sure Bill Colby ever said anything about anything that included any actual information, at least that could be traced back to him. Closed-mouthed old SOB, he was.
dropzone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2009, 12:03 PM   #14
Myron Proudfoot
Graduate Poster
 
Myron Proudfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,407
plus

Plus, he was DCI 30+ years ago. Even if he said it (which I doubt) he was talking about the 1970s and before... The media landscape was far, far different then...
__________________
InfoWars. Punching logic in the face on a daily basis. (from Facebook)
Myron Proudfoot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2009, 12:19 PM   #15
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Far less concentrated back then, indeed.
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2009, 01:25 PM   #16
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
geni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,286
Originally Posted by zaphod2016 View Post
[citation needed]
<ref>{{cite book |title=Flat Earth news: an award-winning reporter exposes falsehood, distortion and propaganda in the global media |last=Nick |first= Davies |year= 2008 |publisher= Chatto & Windus |isbn=0701181451}}</ref>
geni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2009, 11:21 PM   #17
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,633
I can't find any non-McGowan source for this either.

Colby did die in a rather Tom Clancy novel sort of way, though.

Not saying there's anything suspicious about it - 10 minutes in the frigid tidal basin waters of the Northeast US watershed will end just about anyone.
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 01:53 AM   #18
Klimax
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
 
Klimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 9,091
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Far less concentrated back then, indeed.
And even if that,then what? It would go against quote,which would eliminate another part of CT quoitemine.

And what does concentration have to do with owning? For some types of information you cannot get many sources,so it wouldn't matter...
__________________
ModBorg

Engine: Ibalgin 400
Klimax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 03:30 AM   #19
zaphod2016
Graduate Poster
 
zaphod2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,039
I've been toying with an idea of a book or documentary focusing on (flash) THE MEDIA (thunderclap), but I'm having a hell of a time separating fact from fiction.

The consolidation of media by conglomerates like News Corp is a fact, easily proven due to the disclosure rules surrounding public companies. The "media-opoly" meme is well known in CT circles, and checks out.

On the other hand, we have MORE sources of indy media today then ever before. The only problem is, most indy news is just as biased and unreliable as the "corporate media". Also, many "indy" news sources are owned by conglomerates of their own; digg and reddit to name just two.

However, when it comes to the CIA, or other "propaganda opps", it is extremely hard to prove anything. The government almost always denies everything, which would make sense if it were true OR false (it doesn't really tell you anything). Most "testimony" is gathered from extremely sketchy sources, however, that doesn't automatically discredit it because most self-described "revolutionaries" are a tad sketchy.

Noam Chomsky and "Manufacturing Consent" already laid a lot of ground work here, but I'd like to bring my own research to the table also.
zaphod2016 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 09:51 AM   #20
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
geni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,286
Originally Posted by zaphod2016 View Post
I've been toying with an idea of a book or documentary focusing on (flash) THE MEDIA (thunderclap), but I'm having a hell of a time separating fact from fiction.

The consolidation of media by conglomerates like News Corp is a fact, easily proven due to the disclosure rules surrounding public companies. The "media-opoly" meme is well known in CT circles, and checks out.

On the other hand, we have MORE sources of indy media today then ever before. The only problem is, most indy news is just as biased and unreliable as the "corporate media". Also, many "indy" news sources are owned by conglomerates of their own; digg and reddit to name just two.
Neither of those are really media. They are more media aggregators. "indy" news sources would be well indymedia.

Quote:
However, when it comes to the CIA, or other "propaganda opps", it is extremely hard to prove anything. The government almost always denies everything, which would make sense if it were true OR false (it doesn't really tell you anything). Most "testimony" is gathered from extremely sketchy sources, however, that doesn't automatically discredit it because most self-described "revolutionaries" are a tad sketchy.
The CIA isn't allowed to and as far as is known doesn't touch the US media these days. In any case the classic get an inside man in a media organisation aproach isn't that widely used. Feeding stories to front line journalists is a more popular aproach but western goverments tactics are much the same as those used by private companies.

Quote:
Noam Chomsky and "Manufacturing Consent" already laid a lot of ground work here, but I'd like to bring my own research to the table also.
Flat Earth News is mostly UK based but it's worth a read even if it suffers from an annoying habit of going off on a tangent.
geni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 10:08 AM   #21
zaphod2016
Graduate Poster
 
zaphod2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,039
Originally Posted by geni View Post
<ref>{{cite book |title=Flat Earth news: an award-winning reporter exposes falsehood, distortion and propaganda in the global media |last=Nick |first= Davies |year= 2008 |publisher= Chatto & Windus |isbn=0701181451}}</ref>
Flat Earth News by Nick Davies.

He writes for the Guardian.

Thanks for the heads up; this is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.

If anyone here has any reason why Nick Davies is not a credible source, let them speak now, or whenever they get the chance.

Originally Posted by geni View Post
[re: digg, reddit] Neither of those are really media.
Semantics. I'd argue that determining headlines people see is even more relevant than the content of their articles.

Last edited by zaphod2016; 15th September 2009 at 10:10 AM.
zaphod2016 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 11:56 AM   #22
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
 
geni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 28,286
Originally Posted by zaphod2016 View Post
Semantics. I'd argue that determining headlines people see is even more relevant than the content of their articles.
But by the time it gets there the decision has already been made. Georgia's well developed PR engine means that the headline is "poor little Georgia attacked by russia" rather than "Georgia provokes war with russia then screams like a little girl" or "totaly awesome war breaks out in georgia sit back and watch all that soviet heavy kit you never though would get used going head to head".
geni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 12:38 PM   #23
Praktik
Illuminator
 
Praktik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,422
Originally Posted by geni View Post
But by the time it gets there the decision has already been made. Georgia's well developed PR engine means that the headline is "poor little Georgia attacked by russia" rather than "Georgia provokes war with russia then screams like a little girl" or "totaly awesome war breaks out in georgia sit back and watch all that soviet heavy kit you never though would get used going head to head".
Well here's how the Georgia thing worked and I'm not sure you could say it was CIA but it was lobbying firms. Georgia had some good lobbying going on in America and there were influential politicians who were involved in either abetting that lobbying or were targetted by the lobbying and rendered sympathetic. So when they were asked for their comments by a media that needs something to be said by a politician first before they'll report it it was likely the stories being run would be sympathetic and partial to Georgia and that's what happened.

I mean, maybe the CIA had a hand in some of this lobbying at some point in the chain but you could also see it almost as a foreign nation spending large sums of money on getting people on side and doing so successfully.
__________________
“ it has become my conviction that things mean pretty much what we want them to mean. We’ll pluck significance from the least consequential happenstance if it suits us and happily ignore the most flagrantly obvious symmetry between separate aspects of our lives if it threatens some cherished prejudice or cosily comforting belief"
-Iain Banks
Praktik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 01:27 PM   #24
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Georgia has no money to pay these lobbyists/PR companies. It were eighter private donors or US "foreign aid" that sponsored it.

I agreee on the CIA btw, today the journalists are "owned" by the mother cooperations, that's more than "good" enough.

A relevant documentary is "Orwell rolls in his Grave" from 2004. It's Bush aera stuff but witnessing the completely crazy talking heads FOX puts up these days and manages to confuse the viewers so much that "tens of thousands" (*cough*) are protesting imaginary problems in DC, it isn't outdated at all. Interview with the author.

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 15th September 2009 at 01:31 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 02:10 PM   #25
zaphod2016
Graduate Poster
 
zaphod2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,039
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A relevant documentary is "Orwell rolls in his Grave" from 2004. It's Bush aera stuff but witnessing the completely crazy talking heads FOX puts up these days and manages to confuse the viewers so much that "tens of thousands" (*cough*) are protesting imaginary problems in DC, it isn't outdated at all. Interview with the author.

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Thank you for sharing that; more good stuff.

re: Georgia, I understand how PR shaped the story put out to the world. However, unless reddit put it right under my nose, I'd likely have never seen it. I argue that computerized aggregation sites, like Google News and Digg are among the most powerful of the "new media". YouTube is another good example of what I mean. Most of the stuff on YouTube is either a) crap or b) pulled directly from TV, and all the same spin doctors we love to hate. YouTube's value-add is getting that content in front of my face, despite my ongoing efforts to avoid cable news.

Shaping the story, deciding which stories to cover; these issues have affected media for a long time. The new media, and especially its socially-driven aspects, present new challenges and opportunities. It is easier than ever for the "little guy" to be heard; on the other hand, just because a link is popular, doesn't make it true.

Last edited by zaphod2016; 15th September 2009 at 02:17 PM.
zaphod2016 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 02:51 PM   #26
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by zaphod2016 View Post
Thank you for sharing that; more good stuff.

You're very welcome. Allow me to use the opportunity to plug my personal favorite media critic - Michael Parenti. That guy ROCKS!

Lecture "Lies, War and Empire" Part I (2007)
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 03:14 PM   #27
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,633
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I agreee on the CIA btw, today the journalists are "owned" by the mother cooperations, that's more than "good" enough.
That's an "interesting" theory.

Is there anything concrete to suggest that either General Electric, News Corporation, Disney, or Viacom are controlled or influenced by the Central Intelligence Agency?
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 03:52 PM   #28
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
I don't think so. What i was trying to say is that it is not necessary these days for intelligence agencies to directly pressure journalists on a large scale, because the self-censoring mechanisms that are in place and the simple threat of losing your job, or don't getting the job in the first place, are powerful enough to maintain orthodoxy in corporate media.

Parenti has a little bonmot that goes something like this (paraphrasing): "I tell journalists who complain about my analysis and say that their bosses never prevented them from saying what they believe, that they are only in the position they're in because their bosses like what they believe".
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 15th September 2009 at 04:01 PM. Reason: style
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 04:03 PM   #29
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,122
Yeah, Parenti, a apologist for Milosvic and somebody who feels that the crimes of Joseph Stalin have been greatly "exaggerated" is a real reliable source.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 04:17 PM   #30
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Hey dudalb! Long time no see, i felt kind of neglected by you. He explains his stance on those issues and the direction those "critiques" are usually coming from quite well in the video i've posted.
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 05:43 PM   #31
zaphod2016
Graduate Poster
 
zaphod2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,039
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I don't think so. What i was trying to say is that it is not necessary these days for intelligence agencies to directly pressure journalists on a large scale, because the self-censoring mechanisms that are in place and the simple threat of losing your job, or don't getting the job in the first place, are powerful enough to maintain orthodoxy in corporate media.
If I may butt-in, the issue is access.

If I give a hardball interview, the crooks and liars will flee to other shows, with easier questions and more sympathetic hosts. I.e. Bush and Cheney were on FOX News all the time, but avoided the "liberal" media like a plague.

Jon Stewart is one of the few who seem immune from the access issue, and even then, I doubt we'll ever see Bush on his show. I doubt Cramer will be back.
zaphod2016 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 06:03 PM   #32
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by zaphod2016 View Post
Jon Stewart is one of the few who seem immune from the access issue, and even then, I doubt we'll ever see Bush on his show. I doubt Cramer will be back.

I'm always suspicious of people who seem to be immune from the acccess issue, but i'm looking forward to the new show of Harald Schmidt, who introduced/copied the US "late night" format for german television and stuck to it for quite some time, delving into the art of celebrity non-talk during the last years - he will be back on thursday and has the opportunity to shake the republic - but i doubt he will really take it on. Otherwise, even he, a fullblown "star" and as sharp as humans get, will get burned after the first show.
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 15th September 2009 at 06:06 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 06:35 PM   #33
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,057
Rather than search for an answer to whether Colby actually made the quote, it might be more useful to accept it and see where it leads you. We'll assume that Colby was talking about the period of time when he was in the CIA, which ends in early 1976. So who were people of any significance in the major media back then?

1. Walter Cronkite, CBS News
2. David Brinkley, NBC News
3. Howard K. Smith and Harry Reasoner, ABC News
4. Arthur Sulzberger, the New York Times
5. Kate Graham, the Washington Post

Is anybody starting to see the problem here? Let's indulge the conspiracy theorists here again; in 1963 the CIA killed Kennedy because he was about to get us out of Vietnam. But in 1968, the CIA, which owned Walter Cronkite, couldn't get him not to report that the Vietnam War was mired in stalemate? They couldn't get Kate Graham in 1972 to assign those two young reporters to cover high school football games?

BTW, not often mentioned is the fact that Colby himself was a liberal politically; he joined the nuclear freeze movement after leaving the CIA.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 06:55 PM   #34
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
Libbroools! Thazzed problem!

edit: that's the guy who delivers 9/11 "information" to you.
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 15th September 2009 at 07:00 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 07:44 PM   #35
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,633
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I don't think so. What i was trying to say is that it is not necessary these days for intelligence agencies to directly pressure journalists on a large scale, because the self-censoring mechanisms that are in place and the simple threat of losing your job, or don't getting the job in the first place, are powerful enough to maintain orthodoxy in corporate media.
I don't see the connection between intelligence agencies and these "self censoring mechanisms" you describe. The simple threat of losing your job? Concerns over getting a position in the first place? That's a concern where I work. (I do work for the media, BTW.) It's also a concern at Home Depot and McDonald's.

Can you give an example of a journalist who was threatened by the CIA with losing their job, or not getting a good job later on?

All of this stuff just reads like a bunch of theory in the complete abscence of evidence. My ears are open if you have anything that can be sourced.
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 07:57 PM   #36
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
I second zaphod's recommendation of Chomsky/Herman "Manufacturing Consent" for a start, Joey. We all agreed in this thread that the notion of the CIA singlehandedly controlling the media is, today, a myth. May have been true in the past, i don't know. The documentary "Orwell rolls in his Grave" is also serious business and not "CT stuff", regardless of its title (i watched it years ago, maybe there's some crap in it but guys like Charles Lewis and Robert McChesney are a bank).
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 15th September 2009 at 07:59 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 08:17 PM   #37
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,633
It's just that I would have attributed something of this type to the Hoover-era Federal Bureau of Investigation. Those skeletons are out in the open, as are many of the CIA's.
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 08:20 PM   #38
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 10,067
If you doubt that the mainstream media lies ON A GRAND SCALE all the time - systematically, reread the thread on the Georgia/Russia incident last year. More obvious it doesn't get. I think the title of that thread was "Russia invades Georgia" or something like that.

edit: Russia invades Georgia
__________________
We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do. - Karl Rove

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 15th September 2009 at 08:24 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 08:30 PM   #39
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In my pants
Posts: 47,570
Hmm. The CIA owns people now? I didn't realise they still practiced slavery.
__________________
Some men just want to watch the world burn - and I think we're dealing with one of them here this evening.
- Senator Christine Milne, 30 October 2014
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2009, 08:33 PM   #40
JoeyDonuts
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
 
JoeyDonuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10,633
I don't think they lie ON A GRAND SCALE all the time. I think they get things wrong an awful lot.

Also, in the case of the U.S. Media, there aren't many news bureaus in that part of the world. There are less and less of them, as even the large media corporations are feeling the global economic crunch. They might dispatch a reporter to a certain area who will get there after hostilities have ensued. The other thing you have to consider is where the news organizations get their information from. They might be relaying what was told to them by a military staff officer or a warlord, each of whom represent an organization that would no doubt want to be perceived a certain way. Then there's the reporter's bias, and the news organization's bias. All news organizations have them, although some work harder than others at being objective.

I don't recall major Western sources devoting many resources to the conflict anyway. That's a trend that's going to continue as they literally cannot afford to maintain field offices in every far corner of the world where things may or may not happen. They'll get there after the opening salvo and the military in the respective conflict may be attempting to control as much of the information flow in and out of the combat zone as possible. This isn't as feasible anymore with an increasingly connected public even in places that would be normally thought of as "backward," but it is still an essential part of warfare.

Unless, of course, you are alleging that the mainstream media (which organization, exactly?) fabricated their coverage for some sort of political end. And I'm sorry but I can't buy that on face value.
__________________
EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!

Last edited by JoeyDonuts; 15th September 2009 at 08:34 PM.
JoeyDonuts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:05 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.