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Old 18th February 2010, 08:06 AM   #1
Colin Ross
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Dr. Colin Ross's challenge

Mod Warning I have begun this thread in the Million Dollar Challenge forum in response to Dr. Ross's statement that he only wants to talk about his challenge. It was split from this thread in the science forum if you wish to see the source of these comments. Please restrict your discussion here to the challenge itself.
Posted By:Tricky

I encourage JREF form members to view these allegations against me with the same skepticism they would bring to a claim that the reality of the paranormal was being hidden by a conspiracy involving the JREF, the government and several other official bodies. What would be the standard of evidence required for such an allegation to be taken seriously? Clearly, affidavits by psychics would not constitute evidence. Just to correct a few inaccuracies in prior posts: dissociative identity disorder is still in the DSM and will be retained in DSM-V. I never worked for the VA. I never met George Bergen or any of his relatives and none of them were ever treated at the hospital I worked at. His relative committed suicide in 1986, a year after I completed my psychiatry residency - I left Canada in 1991 and first wrote in public about Satanic Ritual Abuse in my 1995 book of that name published by the University of Toronto Press. There is no mention of ritual abuse, cults or the CIA in any of my books or papers prior to 1995. I have 140 peer-reviewed papers and have published books with the University of Toronto Press, John Wiley & Sons and Haworth Press, all mainstream academic publishers. The picture painted of me is inaccurate in numerous details.
My updated JREF challenge protocol was submitted a year ago and I am still waiting for a response - it is available on my web page. Researchers at the University of Surrey have published a series of papers in which they take an EKG with a high-impedance electrode that is three feet away from the person - my challenge is based on the same scientific principle, except that the emission is brainwaves emitted through the eye. The challenge was accepted by the JREF because any form of extramission (energy emerging from the eyes) is disallowed by western science and is therefore "paranormal" - the intellectual point of my challenge is to demonstrate that, in this instance, the doctrine of western science is mistaken.

Last edited by Tricky; 18th February 2010 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 18th February 2010, 04:52 PM   #2
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I am not willing to discuss anything further in a JREF forum other than my challenge. The protocol and the rationale for it are on my web page. The basic idea is that the human body emits an electromagnetic field which is measured in an EKG or EEG. Researchers at the University of Surrey have published a series of papers in which they take an EKG with a high-impedance electrode that is three feet away from the person. Since brainwaves are emitted through the skull, they must also be emitted through the eye socket and be detectable with high-impedance electrodes that make no physical contact with the body. This is my scientifically testable hypothesis for which I have preliminary data in press. Since extramission (emission of any kind of energy through the eyes) is disallowed by western science, my JREF challenge was accepted as a claim of the "paranormal" - my hypothesis is that this doctrine is scientifically mistaken. The JREF rules state that once a challenge has been accepted, a subsequent demonstration of the scientific mechanisms by which it works does not invalidate the challenge. Once high-impedance non-contact electrodes are available, the electromagnetic signal emitted through the eye can be captured and used to trigger a tone with standard neurofeedback hardware and software. This is no more mystical than making squiggles appear on a computer screen by "shooting" an energy beam out from your heart - which is how an EKG works. I would be happy to discuss both the hypothesis and the details of the revised protocol, which I submitted to the JREF a year ago.
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Old 19th February 2010, 12:16 AM   #3
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Just from reading what is written here in this thread, I'd have to ask why is your challenge restricted to emitting through the eyes?
Surely if that's what you're claiming, then whatever signal you claim to be emitting will not be able to be detected except when in line of sight to the eyes and further more would stop if the eyes were closed. Which if I'm understanding your science, wouldn't happen. If the signal being emitted is being emitted through the whole body, then by the definition you quoted:

"Since extramission (emission of any kind of energy through the eyes) is disallowed by western science, my JREF challenge was accepted as a claim of the "paranormal"

it is not paranormal.

Just a thought... Perhaps I should go read the other thread.
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Old 19th February 2010, 04:10 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
it is not paranormal.
Indeed. However, while it's clear that Colin Ross is merely trying to con the JREF into giving him money by trying to word a claim in such a way that it appears paranormal. Unfortunately, it appears so far that he has succeeded. See Swift articles here and here.

The JREF appears to have accepted his claim at face value. While there have been perfectly valid objections to his attempts so far, these all focus on the fact that he's detecting something else, rather than addressing that the claim is simply not paranormal to start with. If the JREF isn't careful, they could easily fall victim to an extremely obvious con game.
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Old 19th February 2010, 04:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross
... This is my scientifically testable hypothesis for which I have preliminary data in press. Since extramission (emission of any kind of energy through the
eyes) is disallowed by western science, my JREF challenge was accepted as a claim of the "paranormal" - my hypothesis is that this doctrine is scientifically
mistaken. The JREF rules state that once a challenge has been accepted, a subsequent demonstration of the scientific mechanisms by which it works does
not invalidate the challenge. Once high-impedance non-contact electrodes are available, the electromagnetic signal emitted through the eye can be captured
and used to trigger a tone with standard neurofeedback hardware and software. This is no more mystical than making squiggles appear on a computer screen
by "shooting" an energy beam out from your heart - which is how an EKG works. ...
So basically what you're saying now is that you were out to trick the JREF into giving you the million? Or out to prove they and others classify some things as paranormal when there are normal scientific explanations for them?
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Old 19th February 2010, 08:54 AM   #6
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Response To Questions

The JREF rules and web page state that the JREF does not want to hear theories as to how the proposed paranormal demonstration works - the JREF only wants to discuss an actual demonstration and protocol. Early in my challenge process (2008) I sent the JREF papers by Winer, and quotations from Schrodinger and Toulmin stating that any form of extramission is disallowed by western science. According to the doctrine of intromission, as endorsed by Winer, no energy emission of any kind from the eyes is allowed. I submitted a challenge according to the rules and procedures of the JREF and it was accepted. The JREF was, as I see it, agreeing with and endorsing the opinion that my claim was an example of "the paranormal" because this is the position of western science on the matter. Intellectually, that is the whole point (of course I would also like to receive the $1 million). Western science and the JREF have defined extramission as paranormal - it follows from this viewpoint that the sense of being stared at cannot have any basis in physiological reality, which is also the position of orthodox western science. My effort is to demonstrate that at least one phenomenon classified as "paranormal" in fact can be reclassified as objective, real, demonstrable and scientific, namely extramission. The theory of intromission has been set up as the complete explanation of ocular physiology in an all-or-nothing fashion, with extramission completely disallowed.
Anyone is free to regard this as a trick or con if they wish. As I understand it, the JREF welcomes paranormal challenges and is willing to award the $1million if a challenge is successful. Why should I be faulted for submitting a challenge according to JREF rules and procedures? If, as I predict will happen, extramission becomes an accepted physiological reality after sufficient replication and peer review, this would seem a worthwhile scientific endeavor to me.
Extramission is one element of a general theory of human energy fields that I have developed - all based on electromagnetic emissions and interactions between organisms in the biosphere. For the JREF challenge I had to boil this down to a specific, detailed protocol, which I have done.
The reaction that my challenge is not really an example of "the paranormal" is exactly what I seek from the scientific community, namely that extramission should not be disallowed. That will hopefully become clear to everyone once the logic, arguments and data are marshalled, but it was not obvious prior to that effort. In fact extramission was actively disallowed as a matter of doctrine.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:15 AM   #7
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Of course radiation is "emitted" by the eyes. It's called heat. The whole body radiates similar "energy". Any body above the temperature of Absolute Zero will radiate energy into the surrounding space that is at a lower temperature.

An I missing something?
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:35 AM   #8
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Then your main obstacle as far as I understand it will be conclusively showing that the 'extramission' is being specifically restricted to being emitted from the eyes (as I mentioned earlier). Because if it was my money that was up for the taking, I would ensure that the claim being made (ie: that you can make and detect energy emitting from your eyes) is just that, and that the test protocol was designed in such a way as to prove that the emission was restricted only to the area you are claiming it is emitted from. Otherwise I could similarly claim that the sun shines out of my ass and prove it by showing an increase in temperature in between my butt cheeks.

Furthermore: I dont think that Western science would necessarily agree that just because it "disallowed" extramission, that Western science would say it was paranormal, nor that just because something was considered paranormal, that they would disallow it.
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Old 19th February 2010, 02:11 PM   #9
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Stray Cat - My claim didn't state that the energy was emitted exclusively from my eyes. It only stated that, "I claim I can send a beam of energy out of my eyes, capture it in a special set of goggles I have built, and then use the energy to make a tone play out of a speaker." This was accepted as a claim of the paranormal by the JREF, so it is paranormal by the JREF's definition. The protocol is designed so that the electrode is immediately in front of my eye in an electromagnetically insulated environment.
Gord - I'm talking about electromagnetic radiation in the 0-40Hz/1-50 microvolt range, not heat energy. The JREF rules did not require me to specify the type of energy and I was not asked to do so. In fact I was instructed not to submit any theories about how my challenge would work.
These are the JREF rules and definitions, not something I devised. My challenge has been accepted - there is no going back at this point, we can only go forward.
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Old 19th February 2010, 02:19 PM   #10
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Last Communication From the JREF To Colin Ross

I submitted a revised protocol to the JREF on February 13, 2009 - this protocol is posted on my web page. On Febraury 13, 2009 Alison Smith replied by e-mail:
"Thank you for your continued interest in the James Randi Educational Foundation's Million Dollar Challenge.
Since you withdrew your claim from the Challenge, you have now been moved to the end of the list - as the Challenge operates on a first-come, first-serve basis.
You will be contacted when we are ready to restart negotiation of your claim."

I disagreed that I had withdrawn my Challenge, as opposed to keeping it active but modifying the protocol, but in any case, I await a response from the JREF as to the details of my proposed protocol.
In the meantime I welcome any other questions about the protocol or the Challenge.
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Old 19th February 2010, 02:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
Stray Cat - My claim didn't state that the energy was emitted exclusively from my eyes. It only stated that, "I claim I can send a beam of energy out of my eyes, capture it in a special set of goggles I have built, and then use the energy to make a tone play out of a speaker." This was accepted as a claim of the paranormal by the JREF, so it is paranormal by the JREF's definition. The protocol is designed so that the electrode is immediately in front of my eye in an electromagnetically insulated environment.
Cool, then as I already said, you only have to prove that the energy is not being emitted from anywhere except your eyes (otherwise your claim is invalid). That should be easy enough for you.
You do realise that the test protocols are developed to exclude cheating as a possible explanation. If it were found that the energy you were emitting was coming from your ears, I would consider that as cheating as it didn't constitute a part of your claim.
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Old 19th February 2010, 04:44 PM   #12
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Do the goggles work only for you? What happens if another person uses them?
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Old 19th February 2010, 04:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Pantaz View Post
Do the goggles work only for you? What happens if another person uses them?
The goggles, they do nothing.....
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Old 19th February 2010, 04:57 PM   #14
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Hi - I did not claim that the energy comes from only my eyes and I did not say anything about whether anyone else could do anything - I only said that I could do so. The JREF did not ask me any questions about the energy coming only from my eyes or about whether anyone else could do the same thing.
Asking what the goggles would do if someone else wore them is like asking what would happen if someone else was hooked up to the EKG machine.
I realize you are trying to devise arguments as to why my Challenge is invalid, and that's fine, but the JREF rules mean your arguments don't apply (as I see it).
Electromagnetic energy is emitted from (or associated with) every atom in the universe, so there is no reason it should be emitted only through the eyes - it comes out through the skull and therefore would not be blocked by the eyelids if eyes were closed - in fact, the amplitude of the apha waves goes up with eyes closed - this is called alpha blocking in the literature, and is evidence that the signal is physiologically active.
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Old 19th February 2010, 05:31 PM   #15
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So, if you had lead coins over your eyes, the goggles would still work?

Ward
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Old 19th February 2010, 06:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
I realize you are trying to devise arguments as to why my Challenge is invalid, and that's fine, but the JREF rules mean your arguments don't apply (as I see it).
You seem to be under the impression that it's all cut and dried though, when it isn't.
The JREF may have accepted your challenge, and you my have written up a protocol, but I'm guessing the JREF hasn't agreed to the protocol and in order for them to do so, they will need to make sure you are only showing what your are claiming and that no other influence can effect the outcome (because that would be considered cheating).
So, if your claim specifies the eyes (because that's what Western science disallows) and it is found that you are unfluencing the result of the test by emitting from your ears as well as your eyes, then your claim is not valid.
You need to alter your claim to be more specific in that you can emit from your whole body. In which case western science recognises the emmision and it ceases to be paranormal (even by your dishonest definition) and therefore not acceptable for inclusion in the challenge.
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Old 19th February 2010, 07:31 PM   #17
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Colin Ross's challenge announcement:

Originally Posted by RemieV
Colin Ross has applied with the claim that he can cause a tone to sound by shooting energy out of his eyeballs.

He has provided both academic affidavits and media presence.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=142754


Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
Hi - I did not claim that the energy comes from only my eyes and I did not say anything about whether anyone else could do anything - I only said that I could do so.
Do you claim to have control over this energy? What I mean is, does this energy always emit from your eyes, or do you have to tell it/force it to shoot out?
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Old 19th February 2010, 07:35 PM   #18
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Colin Ross's challenge application & protocol on his website:

http://www.rossinst.com/paranormal_challenge.html
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Old 19th February 2010, 08:19 PM   #19
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Further Discussion of Colin Ross Challenge

I agree that my proposed protocol is subject to discussion and possible modification. In fact I initiated a modification of it. The protocol specifies that delta waves (1-4 Hz) will be measured - there is little or no muscle artifact in the delta range - muscle artifact is in higher frequency ranges. The electrode does not make physical contact with my body and there is no eye opening or closing, so muscle artifact seems to be ruled out at this point. My argument for the energy coming out of my eyes is the position of the electrode and the EM insulation of the right side of the goggles, plus the fact that the signal is physiologically active. Any energy emitted from my ears would have to pass through my skull to get to the electrode and the signal would be lost in the general brain field, I imagine.
I disagree that I have to prove the energy is emitted only through my eyes - I never made that claim. The type of energy is irrelevant to the Challenge by JREF rules in any case - I am discussing it post-acceptance of my Challenge.
Yes, if sufficient electromagnetic insulation was placed between my eye and the electrode, the signal woud be blocked.
I never said that I could control the energy or turn it on and off only that I could use it to make a tone sound out of a speaker. Obviously, no one can turn their brainwaves on and off by will, however, equally obviously one can change one's EEG with meditation, by going to sleep, by ingesting drugs etc. The vocabulary affects the perception of the claim - if I am described as claiming to "shoot out" energy through my eyes, this sounds more far-fetched and like I am claiming control - if the energy is "emitted" that sounds more scientific and is neutral concerning control. I never said I could "shoot out" anything.
The definition of the paranormal for the purpose of the Challenge is not made by me, so I should not be faulted for a dishonest definition - for the purpose of the Challenge, a claim is a claim of the paranormal if it is accepted as such by the JREF. These are the JREF rules and definitions, not mine.
Thanks for putting up the link.
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Old 19th February 2010, 08:47 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
Researchers at the University of Surrey have published a series of papers in which they take an EKG with a high-impedance electrode that is three feet away from the person.
Hey look woo that my background in electrical engineering can rip apart!!!!!! I'll be tactful first and ask that you show me the papers.
Quote:
Indeed. However, while it's clear that Colin Ross is merely trying to con the JREF into giving him money by trying to word a claim in such a way that it appears paranormal. Unfortunately, it appears so far that he has succeeded. See Swift articles here and here.

The JREF appears to have accepted his claim at face value. While there have been perfectly valid objections to his attempts so far, these all focus on the fact that he's detecting something else, rather than addressing that the claim is simply not paranormal to start with. If the JREF isn't careful, they could easily fall victim to an extremely obvious con game.
Actually it is a paranormal claim. Being able to transmit Alpha,Beta,Gamma, or Trixie dixy doo waves from beyond your skin is woo. We have a hard enough time detecting the waves from electrodes. Its a claim that is extraordinary and one that JREF clearly has no expertise in with. You need a PHD biomedical engineer that deals with this stuff on a daily basis.
Quote:
I agree that my proposed protocol is subject to discussion and possible modification. In fact I initiated a modification of it. The protocol specifies that delta waves (1-4 Hz) will be measured - there is little or no muscle artifact in the delta range - muscle artifact is in higher frequency ranges.
You have no clue how an EEG machine works do you?
EDIT:
God dam it. I'm right. Guess what frequency range the electrooculogram measures according to my textbook? 1-10 Hz.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:05 PM   #21
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In what sense is this an "energy beam"? I get the energy part, but I don't understand the beam part. If your brain is emitting electromagnetic waves in all directions, and those waves are partially attenuated by the skull, it makes sense to speculate that they are more easily detected through a hole in the skull. But this does not a "beam" make. If the electrode is suspended a millimeter above the brow ridge, it would probably work there, too. There's no beam coming from your eye socket, let alone from your eye itself.

Your challenge seems quite clearly designed to take advantage of the wording, rather than the intent, of the rules. I can't imagine why your initial application was accepted, other than by your misleading use of the phrasing "energy beam" and "eye" to make JREF think you were talking about a comic book super power.

In no sense is your challenge paranormal, nor, from your own statements, did you ever think it was. At the best, this is unethical charlatanism; at the worst, it's deliberate misrepresentation in order to claim the prize without meeting the purpose, intent, or design of the contest.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
In what sense is this an "energy beam"? I get the energy part, but I don't understand the beam part. If your brain is emitting electromagnetic waves in all directions, and those waves are partially attenuated by the skull, it makes sense to speculate that they are more easily detected through a hole in the skull.
Not the eyes though. They use something called subdural electrodes which basically are electrodes bored through the head. Remember your eyes is made up of the same soft squishy fluids that the rest of your head is made up of which means its going to be no better than a regular EEG electrode on the skin.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
I never said that I could control the energy or turn it on and off only that I could use it to make a tone sound out of a speaker.
Hmmm, I checked, and your claim isn't as clear on that:

http://www.rossinst.com/paranormal_challenge.html
Quote:
I claim that I can send a beam of energy out of my eyes, capture it in a special set of goggles I have built, and then use the energy to make a tone play out of a speaker. I can do this using the equipment I will bring to the challenge and I can do so at any time, in any office or hotel room that is convenient. I can make the tone sound at will and can signal that I will do so with a finger signal or in response to a verbal command from another person, such as "now" or "go." The tone will play briefly when I decide to make it do so using my eyes and will not play at any other time.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:31 PM   #24
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Huh?????? This is really strange. I'm beginning to wonder if Dr. Colin Ross actually developed an electrooculargram.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:45 PM   #25
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So, Colin Ross, the JREF Challenge staff may not be interested in how the thing is supposed to work, but I am. How does it work? How do the goggles sense the energy beam coming from your eyes or anywhere else? Is this an optical, electromagnetic, electrostatic, infrared, or other phenomenon?
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:51 PM   #26
MattusMaximus
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
Gord - I'm talking about electromagnetic radiation in the 0-40Hz/1-50 microvolt range, not heat energy. The JREF rules did not require me to specify the type of energy and I was not asked to do so. In fact I was instructed not to submit any theories about how my challenge would work.
These are the JREF rules and definitions, not something I devised. My challenge has been accepted - there is no going back at this point, we can only go forward.
Microvolts? I'm a physicist and I've never heard of this unit ever used regarding any kind of electromagnetic radiation. Volts are a measure of electrical potential, not EM-radiation; that and EM-radiation is often measured in a) units of energy (Joules or electron-volts), b) frequency (Hz), or c) wavelength (distance units - meters, feet, etc). You got the frequency thing right, except for the fact that a frequency of 0 Hz is a non-existent EM-wave, but this microvolts thing is weird.

This claims smells very vague to me, almost overly so in an effort to muddy things. And I get the sense that there is nothing "paranormal" here - it sounds like nothing more than an electronic converter that takes light energy and electronically amplifies the signal to run a speaker. You can pick up these sort of circuit kits at Radio Shack.

I'm also guessing that the way this setup works is that the goggles that "capture the energy from the eyes" are actually emitting the EM-radiation in the first place. I'm willing to guess that the whole setup will work equally well with or without the goggles "catching the eye energy" and that the whole business about "eye energy" is just irrelevant. What would really need to be established here is whether or not Colin Ross is even emitting the radiation he claims from his eyes in the first place (which is why the question of exactly what kind of EM-radiation it is is so important) - that is the only thing which would even come close to qualifying as paranormal. It seems to me that what he wants to do is use his little machine to make the speaker ring, and then claim it was his "eye energy" that did it in the first place, when in actuality it was probably the interaction of the electronics in the goggles & speaker that did it. Then he would claim "success".

Of course, based upon what I've read here, this is just speculation on my part. But that's my $0.02 worth on the matter.

ETA: I'd also be interested in knowing whether or not Colin Ross would be willing to have someone analyze the electronics behind his goggles & speaker equipment.
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Old 19th February 2010, 09:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Microvolts? I'm a physicist and I've never heard of this unit ever used regarding any kind of electromagnetic radiation. Volts are a measure of electrical potential, not energy; that and EM radiation is often measured in a) units of energy (Joules or electron-volts), b) frequency (Hz), or c) wavelength (distance units - meters, feet, etc).

This claims smells very vague to me.
Well I feel really stupid for not noticing that.
EDIT:
Well technically at those frequencies you can use volts. The stuff you plug into the wall is EMF but we still say its 120V. And biopotentials are measured in volts. But on the other hand he is referring to a wave traveling out in space which means that you are correct. Microvolts isn't the right unit. In fact given the right circuit one could amplify the voltage to absurdly stupid values so giving an arbitrary voltage is just wrong.
EDIT:
I just wouldn't be surprised at this point if the guy built an EOG and somehow thinks its special.
Quote:
I'm also guessing that the way this setup works is that the goggles that "capture the energy from the eyes" are actually emitting the EM-radiation in the first place. I'm willing to guess that the whole setup will work equally well with or without the goggles "catching the eye energy" and that the whole business about "eye energy" is just irrelevant. What would really need to be established here is whether or not Colin Ross is even emitting the radiation he claims from his eyes in the first place (which is why the question of exactly what kind of EM-radiation it is is so important) - that is the only thing which would even come close to qualifying as paranormal. It seems to me that what he wants to do is use his little machine to make the speaker ring, and then claim it was his "eye energy" that did it in the first place, when in actuality it was probably the interaction of the electronics in the goggles & speaker that did it. Then he would claim "success".
Its not exactly a paranormal claim to start with.
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by technoextreme View Post
Yo.... Did you not read my post?
No I didn't, sorry. I was just responding to the OP with my own thoughts on the matter. It seems that, pardon the pun, we're on the same wavelength here - do you know if anyone at JREF involved in the challenge has thought of these points?
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:15 PM   #29
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The references to taking an EKG at a distance with a "high-impedance electrode" suggest to me that Dr. Ross is having trouble with the distinction between an electrostatically, i.e., capacitively coupled signal and an electromagnetic field.

That experiment would demonstrate the existence of an e-field, which is not surprising as any difference in electrical potential between two points in space will create an e-field.

If the body is genuinely emitting EM energy, then the magnetic component should be measurable. If you can obtain an EKG using an electrostatically shielded inductive pickup it might demonstrate the emission of an electromagnetic field.

ETA: the correct units for the E component of an EM field would be volts/meter.
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
No I didn't, sorry. I was just responding to the OP with my own thoughts on the matter. It seems that, pardon the pun, we're on the same wavelength here - do you know if anyone at JREF involved in the challenge has thought of these points?
Yes we are. I doubt anyone at the JREF thought of these points because the only reason why I realized it is through sheer dumb luck. I opened to the right page in my 600 page textbook. I knew enough to pick the biomedical engineering textbook.
Originally Posted by ktesibios View Post
The references to taking an EKG at a distance with a "high-impedance electrode" suggest to me that Dr. Ross is having trouble with the distinction between an electrostatically, i.e., capacitively coupled signal and an electromagnetic field.

That experiment would demonstrate the existence of an e-field, which is not surprising as any difference in electrical potential between two points in space will create an e-field.

If the body is genuinely emitting EM energy, then the magnetic component should be measurable. If you can obtain an EKG using an electrostatically shielded inductive pickup it might demonstrate the emission of an electromagnetic field.

ETA: the correct units for the E component of an EM field would be volts/meter.
Good points.
EDIT:
Engineering practice: Ignore the electric field and measure the magnetic.
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by ktesibios View Post
If the body is genuinely emitting EM energy, then the magnetic component should be measurable. If you can obtain an EKG using an electrostatically shielded inductive pickup it might demonstrate the emission of an electromagnetic field.
Yes, this is an excellent point. And this is something that would definitely have to be measured prior to any kind of test in order to establish whether or not there are any "eye EM-waves" being emitted in the first place within the range specified. If no such EM-waves can be detected, then that settles it right there.
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:22 PM   #32
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I think the crux -- which I don't see making it past protocol request stage -- lies in this quote:

Quote:
when I decide to make it do so using my eyes and will not play at any other time
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by technoextreme View Post
Yes we are. I doubt anyone at the JREF thought of these points because the only reason why I realized it is through sheer dumb luck. I opened to the right page in my 600 page textbook. I knew enough to pick the biomedical engineering textbook.
I'm thinking we should send off a few PMs to alert some folks of these more technical points we've brought up regarding this situation.
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:25 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
I'm thinking we should send off a few PMs to alert some folks of these more technical points we've brought up regarding this situation.
Who do we PM?
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by technoextreme View Post
Who do we PM?
I just sent one to RemieV and JWagg.
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Old 20th February 2010, 03:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Colin Ross View Post
Hi - I did not claim that the energy comes from only my eyes and I did not say anything about whether anyone else could do anything - I only said that I could do so.
Well then, if just anyone can achieve the same results, then you aren't doing anything paranormal -- actually, it would be the very definition of "normal".
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Old 20th February 2010, 12:08 PM   #37
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Colin Ross, if you are asking if you can win the MDC by doing something any other person can do, but relabeling what you do using vague and obscure definitions and terminologies, the answer is no.
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Old 20th February 2010, 01:46 PM   #38
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Sorry. I can't resist posting this.

Babies With Laser Eyes

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/19...-laser-ey.html
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Old 20th February 2010, 02:07 PM   #39
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Given that you claim that prior art shows that it is possible to detect EKG emissions from the body using high impedence electrodes at a distance, then what you're proposing to do sounds a lot like repeating someone else's experiment. Regardless of the source of the signal, it is well known that electrical signals, including EKG, EEG, and EMG can be detected by skin electrodes, and you state that these can also be detected by suitable electrodes at a distance by known methods. Since you're admitting that this already has a scientific explanation, your repeating the experiment does not and can not be considered paranormal. I would strongly urge the JREF to deny your claim, as it is clearly not a claim of the paranormal but a claim that a known aspect of science can, through tortured semantics, be falsely reclassified as paranormal.

A
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Old 20th February 2010, 11:23 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
Colin Ross's challenge announcement:


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=142754
<snip>

I have just added a tag that connects all the threads about Colin Ross. There are 6 threads in total.
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