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Old 14th April 2010, 08:56 AM   #1
tj15
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Truth hypothesis

Do any truthers here have a plausible hypothesis for what they think happened on 9/11?

Sorry if this has been asked multiple times before.

Truthers: Why haven't you guys attempted to form an agreed upon hypothesis among the Truth Movement? I mean, 9/11 happened only one way... So why are there so many different theories?
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Old 14th April 2010, 09:00 AM   #2
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they actually think the plethora of competing theories is a good thing. they think it shows their open mindedness at not discounting any possibility (except of course 19 terrorists)
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Old 14th April 2010, 09:00 AM   #3
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So each truther can feel very special about him self for knowing and understanding a huge government secret that nobody else in the entire world knows of.
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Old 14th April 2010, 11:44 AM   #4
T.A.M.
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Here is the closest I can come to summarizing what they feel is what "really" happened on 9/11.

A group of Arab men boarded planes. They knew they were on there way to performing some form of mission in the name of Al-Qaeda. In reality they were just patsies for the NWO...fall guys. These planes took off, but were quickly diverted to undisclosed locations. Simultaneously, 4 remote controlled planes were lifted into the same airspace, and were then remotely piloted into their targets. Shanksville was the target for flight 93, which was purposely destroyed after a "mock battle" between "passengers" and "hijackers" so as to provide "heroes" for the NWO narrative.

TAM
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Old 14th April 2010, 11:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
they actually think the plethora of competing theories is a good thing. they think it shows their open mindedness at not discounting any possibility (except of course 19 terrorists)
.........and "no-plane space beamers". They're "dis-info" or nuts.
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Old 15th April 2010, 08:17 AM   #6
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Truthers' strategy of trying to poke holes in the "official story" is getting boring. I would like to hear their hypothesis (detailed).

Would a truther here like to give their hypothesis?
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Old 15th April 2010, 08:24 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
Truthers' strategy of trying to poke holes in the "official story" is getting boring.
It's easier, though, and that's the point. If they give their side then they know it becomes possible to compare the two versions, decide which makes more sense, has the most supporting evidence. And they really, really, really don't want people to be able to do that.
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Old 15th April 2010, 08:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Here is the closest I can come to summarizing what they feel is what "really" happened on 9/11.

A group of Arab men boarded planes. They knew they were on there way to performing some form of mission in the name of Al-Qaeda. In reality they were just patsies for the NWO...fall guys. These planes took off, but were quickly diverted to undisclosed locations. Simultaneously, 4 remote controlled planes were lifted into the same airspace, and were then remotely piloted into their targets. Shanksville was the target for flight 93, which was purposely destroyed after a "mock battle" between "passengers" and "hijackers" so as to provide "heroes" for the NWO narrative.

TAM
You are not saying anything about the failure mode of WTC 1, 2 and 7. Remember: a significant portion of the Twoof-Moofment considers the surprising fall of WTC7 the single most important indication for an inside job.
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Old 15th April 2010, 08:43 AM   #9
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On RationalSkepticism we have a 9/11 thread were we've demanded just this sort of thing over and over again. Our truthers are bending over backwards to avoid fulfilling this request, and it's kind of obvious why.
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Old 15th April 2010, 08:53 AM   #10
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I remember a 9/11 history in this forum done in the style of Dr. Seuss. I think it was written by Dr. Adequate. Anyone remember this?
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Old 15th April 2010, 10:35 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
I remember a 9/11 history in this forum done in the style of Dr. Seuss. I think it was written by Dr. Adequate. Anyone remember this?

Well, there's my version, which is not based on Seuss but rather on a classic folk rhyme with the same opening line, and which lacks Adequate's perfection of meter:
One bright day, in the middle of the night,
Trustworthy traitors with explosive thermite
Put bombs in the basement for top-down collapse,
Then told thousands of Jews, "keep this plan under wraps."
They publicly flaunted their secretive ways
With a twelve-hour power-down that lasted two days.
Then innocent terrorists hijacked planes (four times),
Showing us how the U.S. is guilty of war crimes.
Then bomb-laden holograms flew in their place
(By the FBI, to throw themselves off the case)
Toward four helpless targets that planes couldn't harm.
NORAD defenders stood down in alarm
Then shot down one plane and to Cleveland flew it
To fool all the networks, who already knew it.
The fire chief said "pull it" and pushed the towers down,
Into their own footprints, for blocks all around.
These pre-taped events were all shown on TV live
(Just like when O'Brien told Winston to see five!)
As part of an idiot's ingenious plan
To fight the Iraqis in Afghanistan.
But because I know nothing, they couldn't deceive me.
I only tell lies to prove you should believe me.
It might need a bit of updating, since it doesn't mention invisible DEW, the seven-story high flat debris piles or the trucks laden with huge heavy columns of dustified steel (heading directly to China of course).

But, what's the point? For the past few weeks every time I read a 9/11 CT thread all I can think of is Anthony Perkins saying, "Mother, have you been posting again? What have you done this time? Mother! Oh God, Mother! Blood! Blood!"

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Old 15th April 2010, 10:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
One bright day, in the middle of the night,
Trustworthy traitors with explosive thermite
Put bombs in the basement for top-down collapse,
Then told thousands of Jews, "keep this plan under wraps."
They publicly flaunted their secretive ways
With a twelve-hour power-down that lasted two days.
Then innocent terrorists hijacked planes (four times),
Showing us how the U.S. is guilty of war crimes.
Then bomb-laden holograms flew in their place
(By the FBI, to throw themselves off the case)
Toward four helpless targets that planes couldn't harm.
NORAD defenders stood down in alarm
Then shot down one plane and to Cleveland flew it
To fool all the networks, who already knew it.
The fire chief said "pull it" and pushed the towers down,
Into their own footprints, for blocks all around.
These pre-taped events were all shown on TV live
(Just like when O'Brien told Winston to see five!)
As part of an idiot's ingenious plan
To fight the Iraqis in Afghanistan.
But because I know nothing, they couldn't deceive me.
I only tell lies to prove you should believe me.
This might be the most awesome thing I've read.

I hereby request permission to repost this on other forums (with your name attached as the poet, of course).
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Old 15th April 2010, 11:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
Do any truthers here have a plausible hypothesis for what they think happened on 9/11?

Sorry if this has been asked multiple times before.

Truthers: Why haven't you guys attempted to form an agreed upon hypothesis among the Truth Movement? I mean, 9/11 happened only one way... So why are there so many different theories?
The only plausible ones I've read, but seen no truther espouse are the MIHOP
(Made it happen on purpose) where the terrorists think they are working for Osama and Islamic fundamentalists but are if fact working for the NWO/CIA/The Wombles whomever, so carry out the attacks as we know them to have occurred.

The alternative is the LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) where bush/cheney/the NWO or Wombles found out about the attack but did nothing to foil those plans because they needed a reason to start a war.

Both would require much less people to be in on them, no miracle weapons but for some reason they are less popular with truthers. It could be that there is something in the endless detail involved in the other theories that is attractive in some mental illnesses. the details give a sense of order to their thoughts that the simple more plausible versions can not.
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Old 15th April 2010, 12:18 PM   #14
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Funny one, Myriad

Also, I'm trying to locate Dr. Adequate's post. It had a very good and detailed narrative about the meeting when 9/11 was planned by Cheney et al.
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Old 15th April 2010, 12:21 PM   #15
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Are there any truthers that come to this forum daily that have plausible theories?
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Old 15th April 2010, 12:23 PM   #16
Bell
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LIHOP would be the most plausible theory, followed by MIHOP. Don't know who supports those on here (maybe Babs, I heard, but she is not a member )
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Old 15th April 2010, 12:32 PM   #17
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How 9/11 Was REALLY Done

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
The Conspirators

Three men can keep a secret, if two of them are dead. --- Benjamin Franklin

The Republicans came, and the Democrats too,
'cos they're all the same party (I guess that you knew)
and Jew after Jew after Jew after Jew,
and some guys in black suits (CIA).
There were people from Bilderberg, FEMA and NIST,
there were people so secret they barely exist;
the Masons had gatecrashed, they weren't on the list,
but Cheney allowed them to stay.

There were people who said they were friends of Karl Rove's,
and the bankers turned up in their limos and droves,
quite enough for a dozen Bohemian Groves,
'til the meeting was packed wall to wall.
There were people whose badges just said "FBI";
there were folks representing the FDNY,
and the Federal Reserve (though I still don't know why)
and old Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

***

Then Cheney addressed them, and said, with a sneer:
"I assume you all know why I've gathered you here.
We're agreed on mass-murder", he said (to a cheer)
"but there's something we haven't resolved.
Although I'm an evil despicable man
--- no, hold your applause --- I can't think of a plan
to destroy the Twin Towers, be darned if I can ...
so we got all you people involved."

Some cried: "Use a missile disguised as a plane!"
some spoke up for lasers, while others again
opined it was clear to a man with a brain
that holograms ought to be used.
Then FEMA declared they could do it themselves
with some classified hardware they kept on the shelves;
but: "You'll need our assistance!" cried all Keebler's Elves ---
and the meeting grew slightly confused.

The people from NIST said: "To make people die, on
the whole, it's explosives you ought to rely on"
--- some clapped, but the senior Elder of Zion
said: "Really? Explosives? ... perhaps ...
but it sounds rather iffy ... if I may advance
an idea that's a cert and leaves nothing to chance
then we Jews have a plan that's quite foolproof --- let's dance!
and the buildings are sure to collapse."

Some argued for "pods", whereas others expressed
the opinion that "squibs" give atrocities zest.
Some said: "If they're silent, then nukes would be best",
but others denounced this as bull.
They said: "We reject and rebut your position:
let's not mess about with your fusion or fission;
conventional missiles will do for this mission";
and Larry said: "What if we pull?"

The debate grew quite heated and dragged on for hours
as they looked for a way to demolish the Towers:
some argued for death rays with magical powers,
and others said thermite was nice.
When the argument's heat gave no promise of dropping,
they bickered and wrangled all night without stopping,
and sent out for pizzas with twelve kinds of topping,
and fought for the very last slice.

Then the man they called "Dubya" got up from his seat;
he banged with his gavel, he rose to his feet,
and he said: "Here's a plan that I think can't be beat:
let's do the caboodle --- the lot!
Use holograms, thermite, and lasers and things,
and explosives and missiles and pigs that have wings ---
'cos we all know that added complexity brings
more chance of success to a plot."

***

Then some guy started laughing and punching the air,
and the plotters observed, as they turned round to stare,
on the delegate's badge that they gave him to wear:
"Dylan Avery, Second Class Shill";
and he sat and he scribbled his notes all the while,
and was heard to remark with a curious smile:
"If this won't make people go into denial
I don't think that anything will."
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Old 15th April 2010, 12:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Well, there's my version, which is not based on Seuss but rather on a classic folk rhyme with the same opening line, and which lacks Adequate's perfection of meter:
One bright day, in the middle of the night,
Trustworthy traitors with explosive thermite
Put bombs in the basement for top-down collapse,
Then told thousands of Jews, "keep this plan under wraps."
[...]
It might need a bit of updating, since it doesn't mention invisible DEW, the seven-story high flat debris piles or the trucks laden with huge heavy columns of dustified steel (heading directly to China of course).

But, what's the point? For the past few weeks every time I read a 9/11 CT thread all I can think of is Anthony Perkins saying, "Mother, have you been posting again? What have you done this time? Mother! Oh God, Mother! Blood! Blood!"

Respectfully,
Myriad
Splendid!!

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This might be the most awesome thing I've read.

I hereby request permission to repost this on other forums (with your name attached as the poet, of course).
Me too! Me too!
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Old 15th April 2010, 01:26 PM   #19
uke2se
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
How 9/11 Was REALLY Done
This, too, needs reposting. Can I, pls, can I?

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Old 15th April 2010, 01:35 PM   #20
Bell
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This, too, needs reposting. Can I, pls, can I?

Feel free to do so (I guess) but please credit Dr. Adequate with this work.

Eta:

Orignal thread where the text appeared in:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=133130

Dr. Adequate was a member here, but got banned:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=173082

Last edited by Bell; 15th April 2010 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 15th April 2010, 03:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
How 9/11 Was REALLY Done
This was always one of my faves!
Quote:
Just imagine how this planning session between Bush, Rummy and Cheney must have gone:

BUSH: So, what's the plan again?

CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.

RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.

CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't.

RUMSFELD: We won't?

CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.

RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack?

CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.

BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!

CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of *********** nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.

RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of *********** nowhere.

CHENEY: And the Pentagon crash -- we'll have to do it in broad daylight and say it was a plane, even though it'll really be a cruise missile.

BUSH: Wait, why do we have to use a missile?

CHENEY: Because it's much easier to shoot a missile and say it was a plane. It's not easy to steer a real passenger plane into the Pentagon. Planes are hard to come by.

BUSH: But aren't we using two planes for the Twin Towers?

CHENEY: Mr. President, you're missing the point. With the Pentagon, we use a missile, and say it was a plane.

BUSH: Right, but I'm saying, why don't we just use a plane and say it was a plane? We'll be doing that with the Twin Towers, right?

CHENEY: Right, but in this case, we use a missile. (Throws hands up in frustration) Don, can you help me out here?

RUMSFELD: Mr. President, in Washington, we use a missile because it's sneakier that way. Using an actual plane would be too obvious, even though we'll be doing just that in New York.

BUSH: Oh, OK.

RUMSFELD: The other good thing about saying that it was a passenger jet is that that way, we have to invent a few hundred fictional victims and account for a nonexistent missing crew and plane. It's always better when you leave more cover story to invent, more legwork to do and more possible holes to investigate. Doubt, legwork and possible exposure -- you can't pull off any good conspiracy without them.

BUSH: You guys are brilliant! Because if there's one thing about Americans -- they won't let a president go to war without a damn good reason. How could we ever get the media, the corporate world and our military to endorse an invasion of a secular Iraqi state unless we faked an attack against New York at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals? Why, they'd never buy it. Look at how hard it was to get us into Vietnam, Iraq the last time, Kosovo?

CHENEY: Like pulling teeth!

RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose!

BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? ****, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"!

ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah!
Think Matt nailed it?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...1_conspiracies
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Old 15th April 2010, 07:04 PM   #22
Myriad
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This might be the most awesome thing I've read.

... At least until you read Dr. Adequate's version...

Quote:
I hereby request permission to repost this on other forums (with your name attached as the poet, of course).
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Me too! Me too!
Sure. Go wild! Make me viral!

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Old 15th April 2010, 07:56 PM   #23
uke2se
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
... At least until you read Dr. Adequate's version...





Sure. Go wild! Make me viral!

Respectfully,
Myriad
Viral it is!

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Old 15th April 2010, 08:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Make me viral!
.
Doctor! Help me! I've got a bad case of Myriad! Choo!
.
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Old 16th April 2010, 08:42 AM   #25
tj15
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This is a little off topic, but I have a question. I saw a video where Steven Jones (I think it was him that said it) said that there was an experiment done where the steel only sagged about 3 inches. I think he thinks that this experiment shows that the bowing of the outer walls could not have been caused by the fires.

Was the experiment flawed? How so?
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Old 16th April 2010, 02:25 PM   #26
T.A.M.
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too vague tj. You're gonna have to get a reference for that one.

TAM
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Old 16th April 2010, 02:34 PM   #27
tj15
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
too vague tj. You're gonna have to get a reference for that one.

TAM
In the thread "This has probably been debunked already, but...", this video was posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfDVm...watch_response

At the 6:25 mark, Steven Jones is talking about the experiment.

I'm just wondering if anyone has more information on that experiment and what it entailed.

Last edited by tj15; 16th April 2010 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 16th April 2010, 07:54 PM   #28
T.A.M.
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2 minutes on google....

http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm

TAM
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Old 16th April 2010, 10:57 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
Do any truthers here have a plausible hypothesis for what they think happened on 9/11?...
I don't think anyone has answered the OP directly.

Here goes! NO!

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
On RationalSkepticism we have a 9/11 thread were we've demanded just this sort of thing over and over again. Our truthers are bending over backwards to avoid fulfilling this request, and it's kind of obvious why.
..there is a second possibility that some of them are not capable of making any decision so they cannot "converge" their thinking to say "No Demolition" OR "Of course it was that plane" OR "If it didn't crash there waht made that hole."

But maybe I'm being too generous to them.
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Old 17th April 2010, 01:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
Are there any truthers that come to this forum daily that have plausible theories?
The short answer is "no!".

The longer answer is that they all believe wildly different things and explaining Their Version Of 9/11 will be immediately countered (if not attacked as the posting of a NWO shill) by other fantasists posting Their Only True Version, not to mention by other posters firmly rooted in reality. Truthers only try to poke holes in the history of what happened because that way they don't have to post their own (laughable!) version of things.

You'll notice that this thread's been up for three days now and not a single Truther has posted, which is a telling sign.
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Old 17th April 2010, 09:26 AM   #31
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no no no.

How many times do I have to tell you all this?

Mothra dun it.
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Old 17th April 2010, 03:38 PM   #32
tj15
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
2 minutes on google....

http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm

TAM
I'm not seeing where the link discusses the experiment done, I THINK by Underwriters Laboratory in 2004, that caused only 3 inches of sagging. I'm just looking for details on the experiment like how they accounted for the weight of the floors, what temperatures they used, ect.
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Old 17th April 2010, 05:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
I'm not seeing where the link discusses the experiment done, I THINK by Underwriters Laboratory in 2004, that caused only 3 inches of sagging. I'm just looking for details on the experiment like how they accounted for the weight of the floors, what temperatures they used, ect.
Actually it does.

Note: ASTM E119

http://www.astm.org/Standards/E119.htm

You have to remember the NIST reports were directed to professionals not to convince the layman.
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Old 17th April 2010, 11:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
Do any truthers here have a plausible hypothesis for what they think happened on 9/11?

Sorry if this has been asked multiple times before.

Truthers: Why haven't you guys attempted to form an agreed upon hypothesis among the Truth Movement? I mean, 9/11 happened only one way... So why are there so many different theories?
Are there any Truthers left here on JREF??
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Old 18th April 2010, 02:58 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by dc1971 View Post
Are there any Truthers left here on JREF??
Yes,but never never respond to threads like like this,they have jelly fish instead of a spine.
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Old 18th April 2010, 04:58 AM   #36
T.A.M.
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
I'm not seeing where the link discusses the experiment done, I THINK by Underwriters Laboratory in 2004, that caused only 3 inches of sagging. I'm just looking for details on the experiment like how they accounted for the weight of the floors, what temperatures they used, ect.
I think it can be found in the meat of one of the NIST reports...not sure where, but I am pretty sure it is in there.

TAM
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Old 18th April 2010, 09:15 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
I'm not seeing where the link discusses the experiment done, I THINK by Underwriters Laboratory in 2004, that caused only 3 inches of sagging. I'm just looking for details on the experiment like how they accounted for the weight of the floors, what temperatures they used, ect.

This link might have what you're looking for, tj15 (NIST factsheet with links to pdf files).
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Old 18th April 2010, 10:55 AM   #38
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So the UL test included fireproofing?... But in reality, the fireproofing was blown off during the impacts?

Sorry... I know this is all old stuff. I just never really looked into the stuff about these experiments with how much the floors sagged.
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Old 18th April 2010, 11:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Yes,but never never respond to threads like like this,they have jelly fish instead of a spine.
It's amazing how difficult it is for truthers to answer the question about what their hypothesis for 9/11 is.
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Old 18th April 2010, 11:40 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by tj15 View Post
It's amazing how difficult it is for truthers to answer the question about what their hypothesis for 9/11 is.
No no no! That's what a new investigation is for!
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