What happened after prayer removed from schools

Ameer

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I met David Barton in about 1995, and was amazed at his statistical charts.
(And he gave me permission to copy them for a tract that I had in mind.)

All of his charts showed government statistics from 1962 up to when I met him.


This is another read 'em and weep deal ... enjoy!

Figure 1: The SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) is an academic test that measures the developed verbal and math reasoning of a student exiting from high school or some similar type of learning facility. The results of these tests are commonly used by colleges and universities to indicate the strength of a student’s academic preparation and his potential for success on the college level.

Figure 1 shows how drastically the actual knowledge of high school students began to drop at an accelerating rate after 1962. Barton notes in his report that the upturn in SAT scores since 1981 is due to the increase in private Christian educational facilities which began to flourish at that time. Statistics have proven that students from private Christian schools showed higher academic achievement and higher test scores.

Figure 2: This graph shows the increase in sexual activity in unmarried teen-age girls after the 1962 Supreme Court decision. It is evident from the figures provided that in the years previous to the removal of prayer the rates remained stable and relatively unchanged. In the post- prayer years the numbers immediately began to soar. The sudden increase on the graph appears as if a great restraining force had suddenly been removed.

Figure 3: Unwed women 15-19 years of age showed a phenomenal increase in the rate of pregnancies after the School Prayer decision. Note that the figure jumps drastically after the Supreme Court’s Roe vs. Wade decision which made abortion legal in the U.S. The United States now has the highest incidence of teen-age motherhood in any Western country.

Figure 4: For the 15-19 and 20-24 age group, the rates of youth suicide remained relatively unchanged during the years from 1946 to the School Prayer decision in 1962. But in the years since, suicides among the same group have increased 253 percent, or an average of 10.5 percent per year.

Figure 5: Stability in the family has also been affected since the 1962 decision. Divorce, single parent families, couples living together but not married, and adultery are areas of family breakdown which have experienced radical growth in recent years. In the graph above, the increase in single parent families (households with only a mother and children) are detailed. Note the dotted line at the bottom, which shows the rate of growth prior to the 1962 decision.

Figure 6: Crime, productivity, and national morality had been on a fairly stable level prior to the 1962 decision, but that is no longer the case. It is obvious that such a quantity of students praying for their nation had a very positive effect on the course that this nation had taken. The rate of violent crime, as shown above, has risen over 330 percent.

http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0124_When_America_stopped.html
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Of course, you must understand that the prayers of our school children
during the period up to 1962 had nothing to do with any God.
These prayers went up and around and through our atmosphere,
affecting the psyches, consciences, etc. of society in a positive manner.
After these prayers stopped, the above stated parts of us
were no longer positively affected, and, ergo, well, bummer city!
Just thought I should explain it to you.
Have a nice day!

P.S. I apologize, if some of you are upset with the colors.
If enough of you complain loudly enough,
I promise to stick to drab black, which is more in line with your spiritual conditions.
 
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I take it you've never actually looked at figs. 1-6, which aren't on the website you linked, or investigated the validity of the data that went into them?

Dave
 
Prayer was not removed from school. Teacher and staff-led group prayer was removed, and basically because the parents couldn't agree on what brand of Christianity to push at other people's kids. Students could, and can still, pray all they want.
 
1962 was the year the pope excommunicated Fidel Castro. Clearly that's the cause of all problems since.
 
I take it the OP is not familiar with standard logical fallacies either.
 
Of course, nothing else was going on at the time that could have affected any rates of anything. In the '62 to '95 time range we were remarkably free of anything like the Vietnam War or the crack epidemic or anything else that might skew the figures. And there have been no additional changes to the statistics since 1995 that would be counter to this like the end of the crack epidemic and huge drops in violent crime. And none of this could possibly be errors of surveying people who might have been more reluctant to speak about sexual activity in the '40s and '50s, but become more willing to do so in the '60s and on. And nothing else changed in the nation before the 1946 start date for these stats like the end of prohibition or a major war that might in some way skew the data and make the '46 to '62 period look the way it did.
I mean, before dumping this on our forum you did check all these things to make sure you could establish correlation, right?
And I just missed the part where you provided the actual statistics and links to verify them, right? I mean that part must have been an oversight on my part because your post would be useless without them.
 
In case you've never heard it before, post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html

Post Hoc fallacies are typically committed because people are simply not careful enough when they reason. Leaping to a causal conclusion is always easier and faster than actually investigating the phenomenon. However, such leaps tend to land far from the truth of the matter. Because Post Hoc fallacies are committed by drawing an unjustified causal conclusion, the key to avoiding them is careful investigation. While it is true that causes precede effects (outside of Star Trek, anyways), it is not true that precedence makes something a cause of something else. Because of this, a causal investigation should begin with finding what occurs before the effect in question, but it should not end there.
 
P.S. I apologize, if some of you are upset with the colors.
If enough of you complain loudly enough,
I promise to stick to drab black, which is more in line with your spiritual conditions.[/COLOR]

Have you asked Jesus to forgive you for your arrogant self-assurance of your own superiority?
 
You mean David Barton the extreme right-wing theocratic historical revisionist from Texas? Is that the guy from which you got these facts?
 
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Of course, you must understand that the prayers of our school children
during the period up to 1962 had nothing to do with any God.
These prayers went up and around and through our atmosphere,
affecting the psyches, consciences, etc. of society in a positive manner.
After these prayers stopped, the above stated parts of us
were no longer positively affected, and, ergo, well, bummer city!
Just thought I should explain it to you.
Have a nice day!

Does it matter which god they pray to ? Ganesha ? Zeus ? Odin ?
 
I promise to stick to drab black, which is more in line with your spiritual conditions.
Why do you paint people with your brush? You believe in spritual stuff but that doesn't mean others necessarily do so to claim their condition is black is the hight of arrogance. I would put you on ignore but I predict an eventual ban for spamming the forums.
 
What happened after prayer removed from schools New York City introduces a subway train that operates without a crew on board

There. FIFY.

What? Not good enough? There's a whole list of things that happened in 1962:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962

Pick whichever one you like. It all involves energies that mingle with air and minds, etc, whatever...
 
Figure 2: This graph shows the increase in sexual activity in unmarried teen-age girls after the 1962 Supreme Court decision. It is evident from the figures provided that in the years previous to the removal of prayer the rates remained stable and relatively unchanged. In the post- prayer years the numbers immediately began to soar. The sudden increase on the graph appears as if a great restraining force had suddenly been removed.

I'm confused. You seem to be implying this is a bad thing.

Edit: Incidentally
P.S. I apologize, if some of you are upset with the colors.
If enough of you complain loudly enough,
I promise to stick to drab black, which is more in line with your spiritual conditions.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199482
6. You will not spam, flood or otherwise post in a manner that disrupts the functioning of the Forum, this includes using disruptive formatting in your posts.
It also covers such things as posting extremely large pictures that cause the page to display in an unusual manner and using excessive amounts of formatting such as large fonts, colour, and smilies that can make a thread difficult to read or even inaccessible.
Bolding mine.
 
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...
I promise to stick to drab black, which is more in line with your spiritual conditions.
.
You got -something- right.
Black is the color of my true love's hair.
And I get all spiritual making the two-backed beast with her.
 
My husband was born in 1962. It is all his fault!
.
1962....
I was gonna do whup-ass on Fidel right then.
Sadly, my heart condition which was going to kill me without the operation kept me out of the service.
 
What happened after GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED prayer removed from schools

Please try to be accurate with your premise. No one removed prayer from schools or anywhere else. Anyone can pray any time or any place they wish, just don't try to force me or my kids to go along with it.
 
Went to Catholic school. Prayed every day. Became an atheist. Prayer apparently sucks.
 
Did you know that the rate of atheists in the world has increased since 1987? Well, I was born in 87, so that must mean I am the atheist messiah sent to deliver the world from religion.

Isn't this fun?
 
Oh man, they remove prayer from the schools and only a couple of years later segregation is finally demolished and voting rights are finally given to African Americans.

I guess everyone was praying to keep the black man down.
 
In the first prayer wasn't removed from school, organized prayer was. You can pray on your own all you want to. You just can't ask or coerce someone else to pray your specific prayer anymore. Your statistics have nothing to do with ceaseing and desisting from forcing people to pray or putting other students who are of another religion or simply don't want to pray on display.
Jews shouldn't be compelled to say the lords prayer for instance. Jehovah Witnesses are told to walk out of the room when another faith is praying etc.
The only way to avoid this is to allow students to pray on their own or not.
 
In the two-year period from 1962 to 1964, cases of paralytic polio in children in the U.S. decreased by about 87%, and continued to drop after that, remaining extremely low to this day.

Stopping government-sanctioned school prayer in 1962 was therefore clearly responsible for saving thousands of children from life-threatening illness and paralysis. If you favor mandatory school prayer, doesn't that show you want to paralyze children?

Or is there instead something wrong with reasoning that any changes that occur after an event can arbitrarily be deemed to have been caused by that event?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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In the first prayer wasn't removed from school, organized prayer was. You can pray on your own all you want to. You just can't ask or coerce someone else to pray your specific prayer anymore.

Yeah, but that sort of takes the fun out of it.

Without the ability to condescend to others, religion is just a lot of talking to yourself.
 
Oh man, they remove prayer from the schools and only a couple of years later segregation is finally demolished and voting rights are finally given to African Americans.

I guess everyone was praying to keep the black man down.

Now that you mention it, there was the diabolical Equal Pay Act of 1963.

Maybe we should have 'banned prayer' from schools a century earlier while emancipating the slaves in the rebellious US states.
 
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Oh man, they remove prayer from the schools and only a couple of years later segregation is finally demolished and voting rights are finally given to African Americans.

I guess everyone was praying to keep the black man down.
.
Went to high school in Virginia from 1954 to 1956.
You bet they were!
 
I went looking for the figures on the internet. They can be purchased in the form of an $8 book, but the graphs are not readily available otherwise. Some of them can be seen on this video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4315764/the_root_cause_for_the_failure_of_schools_in_america/ which includes such classic lines as "what do you think happens when you start telling students 'you can't see the Ten Commandments in school; you might obey them - things like don't steal and don't kill'? That has to have an effect on behavour. And it did."


ETA: also includes "... Thomas Jefferson who stated that Christianity is the best friend of government."

"The founders believed that the Constitution would only work for people who used the Word of God as their standard."
 
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In the first prayer wasn't removed from school, organized prayer was. You can pray on your own all you want to. You just can't ask or coerce someone else to pray your specific prayer anymore. Your statistics have nothing to do with ceaseing and desisting from forcing people to pray or putting other students who are of another religion or simply don't want to pray on display.
Jews shouldn't be compelled to say the lords prayer for instance. Jehovah Witnesses are told to walk out of the room when another faith is praying etc.
The only way to avoid this is to allow students to pray on their own or not.

You beat me to it. Students can pray on their own and can even organize prayer groups. What can't happen is school staff forcing students to pray. As someone once quipped, 'As long as there are math tests in schools, there will be prayer in schools.' (May not be exactly correct, but it's close enough. Feeling too ill to be bothered looking up the exact quote.)
 
"what do you think happens when you start telling students 'you can't see the Ten Commandments in school; you might obey them - things like don't steal and don't kill'? That has to have an effect on behavour. And it did."

That's almost English.
 
The Beatles recorded their first hit in 1962. They later claimed to be more famous than God. Coincidence?
 
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"what do you think happens when you start telling students 'you can't see the Ten Commandments in school; you might obey them - things like don't steal and don't kill'? That has to have an effect on behavour. And it did."

That's almost English.

Well, to be fair, I may have punctuated it incorrectly. I made my best guess from the way he said it. On the other hand, that is a complete and accurate ordering of all the words he said.
 

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