The Truth Movement: Finally, Lost in Space

R.Mackey

Philosopher
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
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For some time now, I've had a mind to start this thread, which has to do with quantifying the depths of obscurity to which the 9/11 Truth Movement has sunk. However, with the recent discovery and killing of Usama bin Laden and the resulting final closure of the event that gave the Truth Movement life, now is perhaps the right time.

As we saw only a few nights ago, thousands turned out, spontaneously, in the dead of night, to Ground Zero to celebrate the news. A similar rally appeared at the White House. The sentiment was obvious at sporting events and in practically every urban center. These ad hoc gatherings eclipse the best turnout the Truth Movement ever achieved nationally after almost ten years of attempted rallies, no matter how long they planned, how nice the weather was, or what pseudo-celebrity appearances or other events they promised. In the face of this observation, there can be no argument that the Truthers are a tiny, literally negligible minority. In an unrelated irony, it also bears mention that Dr. Steven Jones, perhaps the closest the Truth Movement ever had to a legitimate scientist, continues to embarrass himself with reckless abandon at almost the same moment. These are blows from which the Truth Movement, if ever it was in fact a movement at all, cannot recover.

But is the Truth Movement really dead? :hug8

What do we mean by "dead," exactly? By the standard definition of life, I argued that it had expired over four years ago, and certainly it has produced nothing of note since that time. Similarly, long ago I tried to find the best figures among the Truth Movement, those most worthy of our attention, and found there were none. More recently -- three years ago -- I asked if anything new was taking place in the Truth Movement, and the answer was almost zero, certainly zero in the years since then.

On the other hand, do conspiracy theories actually die? One may argue that they do not -- the JFK and Moon Landing conspiracy believers, for instance, have accomplished nothing at all, yet there remain ineducable, insular communities of die-hard believers in these causes. Belief in all manner of Pearl Harbor conspiracies remains, and it goes without saying that Holocaust denial and even the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion still have many stubborn exponents. If one tried, one could probably find conspiracy theorists still grousing over the USS Maine, the Second Bank of the United States, or even the "real" killers of Julius Caesar. I won't even bring up biblical conspiracy theories.

By this standard, it is safe to assume that the Truth Movement, or Truthers at least, will never actually cease to exist. Achieving this goal is functionally similar to and no easier than completely stamping out illiteracy. One may as well throw in the towel, if this is where one draws the finish line.

A more prudent goal, I suggest, is this: To simply declare the Truth Movement "dead," or more accurately, negligible, when it can quantitatively and definitively be shown to be completely impotent. At this point, the more rational among us can safely disregard the Truth Movement, as the likelihood of it ever evolving, gaining influence, or producing anything worthy of scrutiny would be statistically unlikely. What we need, then, is a way to calculate this possibility.

---

Which brings me to the title: Lost in Space. One possible analogy to communication between Truthers and the rest of us is found in space exploration. Consider, for a moment, the Truth Movement as a deep space probe -- a little entity all to its own, far removed from the normal world, with remarkable instruments in its possession yet limited in processor power, capable of making discoveries and sending messages back home.

Sometimes, these craft fail to respond.

In spacecraft design we utilize a trick called the Command Loss Timer. This is a counter on board the spacecraft that can only be reset from the ground. Its purpose is as follows: The spacecraft is programmed to expect communications on a semi-regular basis. If no communication occurs over a long period of time, such that the Command Loss Timer ticks down to zero, then the spacecraft changes its behavior under the assumption that something must have failed -- either its antenna pointing is wrong, its steering has gone bad, its radio has failed, or what have you. When the Timer expires, the spacecraft automatically goes into a "Safe Mode" where it makes itself as easy to talk to as possible (pointing wide-angle Low Gain Antennae towards Earth, warming up all receivers, resetting computers and conserving power, etc.), and simply waits.

What I envision is something similar for the Truth Movement. Let's say we give it, oh, sixty days from right now to say something insightful. It could be anything. It could be a new result or uncovering new evidence. It could be a well-formed hypothesis. It could be acknowledgement of some established but long-resisted fact, demonstrating that the Truth Movement still has some capability to learn or reason. It could even be "Just Asking a Question," provided the question is well-considered and sparks some thought to answer. Any one of these, I'll give it my personal thumbs-up and reset the timer.

What I expect to find, however, is that there is truly nothing going on in the Truth Movement, it's all been said before, they're happy in their squalid little trench, and that the sixty days will expire without a single iota of progress. If this is the case, I trust you will agree that it's as dead as any "movement" could possibly be.

Shall we try it? If anyone, Truther or not, thinks she's spotted a sign of life, please post it up here -- a link, an original post, whatever. I am genuinely curious. And please, no bashing of anyone. This is an attempt to find the best of their thinking, not the worst. There are other avenues for that.

The clock has started. :hourglass
 
Good post. To me they are just a handful of internet nobodies who will either go completely crazy and let the conspiracy fantasies be a big part of their life, or they will just find interest in them for a brief embarrassing period during their life, then forget about them once they grow up.
 
My 2 cents or dollars.

I think the 60 days already went years ago. There has been nothing sensible or notable in years, as far as the TM is considered, so why give them 60 days in 2011 to produce something...

I agree, that these theories never die, they will always exist and some people will always believe in them. Other people should accept that. Some people are never rational and are easily lured by the theories. They can't take any opposing views, and only feed from opposition. In their minds it only strengthens their belief. Take a look at Richard Gage. Lost his house, job, wife. Yet he thinks he's in a mission of his life. He is where he wants to be. He's happy. In his own words: "I’ve never been happier. I feel blessed, in fact. This is my destiny, my mission. I’ve lost my career. I’ve lost my marriage. I’ve lost my house. But I’m working with patriots, spreading the truth about what’s happened to their country. What more could I ask?"

There will always be people who we think are irrational, stupid, cannot think or reason at all, have no logic, and can't produce anything to support their beliefs. 60 days or 60 years doesn't change that.
 
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I think the 60 days already went years ago. There has been nothing sensible or notable in years, as far as the TM is considered, so why give them 60 days in 2011 to produce something...

Yeah, I think so too, but just to be sporting I'll give them one last opportunity to demonstrate any kind of relevance. After this, you can't say we didn't listen.
 
SLC saw a strong uptick in visitors since Sunday night, from an average of roughly 750 uniques per day to about 2500 uniques. Looking at the keywords used in searches, it appears that "Loose Change Debunked" is the leader. So somebody's pimping Dylan's magnum opus out there.

I don't expect the Truthers to come up with any new evidence and really there's no need to when they can recycle the same old horse manure. David Ray Griffin (apparently recovered from his stroke last summer) was on with Kevin Barrett the other day, and it was voice-morphed phone calls and the like.

I don't see Jones embarrassing himself; he's just embarrassing those who took him seriously as bringing some intellectual heft to the movement. Remember, this is the same Steven Jones who bought into the Burrows Cave hoax.
 
I did hear a new one recently. I can't really say it is the "best" Truther thinking I've heard but it was progress of a kind. This guy said that the collapse of the Twin Towers were mostly gravity-driven collapses, so far so good, but it was triggered by some sort of event other than the airplane impacts.

I didn't hear why it had to be some event other than the aircraft impacts but I could tell it just had to be in order for there to be a conspiracy. I think having a conspiracy is an emotional need so we'll perhaps only see Truthers growing out of their Trutherism if they become content in other areas of their lives. Maybe there'll just notice that they no longer need the self-imposed exile from normal society.
 
I did hear a new one recently. I can't really say it is the "best" Truther thinking I've heard but it was progress of a kind. This guy said that the collapse of the Twin Towers were mostly gravity-driven collapses, so far so good, but it was triggered by some sort of event other than the airplane impacts.

I don't think there's anything new there; Gregory Urich has been saying much the same thing for years in pointing out that the collapse times of the towers convey no significant information as to the mechanism of collapse initiation. In any case, I would argue that it falls a long way short of the threshold of significance required to reset the timer.

Dave
 
Ryan, do you require some input from the TM that is original and novel as of the beginning of today?

What if someone declared that enough evidence was already onn the table, or new evidence unlikely without a new investigation with subpoena power?

Gage recently declared that CIT's NoC theory is balloney. Would that sort of statement count as "thinking has moved"? Or would only a retraction or qualification of one's own claims count?

Would publishing old arguments and hypothesises in a truly respectable journal count?
 
How about if the special forces guys look at Osama bin Laden's laptop and discover photos of him waterskiing in Barbados at the time the attacks happened?

Or even if pictures of him meeting Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld to plan the attacks...

Whatever's on that laptop is the key to 9/11!!!!!
 
Ah, the daily death of the truth movement, this time proven with rocket science. Impressive. The major flaw here is of course that Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore and the participation of "truthers" in it is some kind of indication for anything. I for one think twice about sharing any news here these days. Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.
 
Ah, the daily death of the truth movement, this time proven with rocket science. Impressive. The major flaw here is of course that Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore and the participation of "truthers" in it is some kind of indication for anything. I for one think twice about sharing any news here these days. Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.

In other words, no, nothing new from you either.

(And just in case you really didn't notice or comprehend it, he didn't ask Truthers to post something new here. He only asked that if someone spots something novel -- anything -- they'd mention it here.)
 
Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like.


Little anecdote. About a good year ago, I put a link to a radio show into my sig. It's done by a young couple from NYC and is about progressive politics and comedy. They are on the line of Amy Goodman etc. Nothing to do with 9/11 truth, occasional side hits on "conspiracy theories". They are five days a week and quite successful now, but back then they were once or twice a week, rather obscure and I had listened to most of the earlier shows. The very next show after I put it into my sig started with them reporting about floods of eMails calling them truthers and/or asking them to position themselves clearly against it. Which they did, although taking the high road (avoiding juvenile mockery) and pointing out the psychotic and hostile nature of a lot of those mails. Made me think.
 
You have no idea who I am R.Mackey, but I've been lurking for a long while now and I really enjoy your threads. Who am I kidding I have a board-crush on this place, but still this was a great read and something that I think most skeptics on this board feel. I almost want something relevant to come out again from the TM so it would give some good topics to discuss here. The whole building 7 / demolition of the towers threads are starting to really fizzle out.
 
Yeah, I think so too, but just to be sporting I'll give them one last opportunity to demonstrate any kind of relevance. After this, you can't say we didn't listen.

Didn't you already try this with the irreducible delusion bit?
 
...Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore ...
Little anecdote. About a good year ago, I put a link to a radio show into my sig. ... The very next show after I put it into my sig started with them reporting about floods of eMails calling them truthers and/or asking them to position themselves clearly against it...

Spot the cognitive dissonance!
 
Ah, the daily death of the truth movement, this time proven with rocket science. Impressive. The major flaw here is of course that Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore and the participation of "truthers" in it is some kind of indication for anything. I for one think twice about sharing any news here these days. Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.

Are you saying this happened?
 
I just want to say hello and be a part of the thread. Lord knows I'll never see anything new from the twoof movement to post here....
 
Ah, the daily death of the truth movement, this time proven with rocket science. Impressive. The major flaw here is of course that Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore and the participation of "truthers" in it is some kind of indication for anything. I for one think twice about sharing any news here these days. Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.

No, no, NO! Something new.

Hans
 
I'd just like to point out that spacecraft are largely designed by rational people. 9/11 TM? Not so much.
 
I think the last new thing was nano thermite.
 
Ah, the daily death of the truth movement, this time proven with rocket science. Impressive. The major flaw here is of course that Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore and the participation of "truthers" in it is some kind of indication for anything. I for one think twice about sharing any news here these days. Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.

Would you be referring to a former member of this forum?
 
Ah, the daily death of the truth movement, this time proven with rocket science. Impressive. The major flaw here is of course that Mackey pretends that this little circle jerk of a subforum has any relevance anymore and the participation of "truthers" in it is some kind of indication for anything. I for one think twice about sharing any news here these days. Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.

Why not? According to AE911T, Gage has people calling employers and references to confirm the signatures.

Besides, if truthers really had any evidence of a conspiracy at any level, why would they need a job? The tabloids and various publishers would be banging down your door to hand you money.

Hell, look at Gage. He's making $70k+ a year to promote bullcrap.

Paranoid much?
 
Ryan, do you require some input from the TM that is original and novel as of the beginning of today?

That's the basic idea, yes.

What if someone declared that enough evidence was already onn the table, or new evidence unlikely without a new investigation with subpoena power?

Gage recently declared that CIT's NoC theory is balloney. Would that sort of statement count as "thinking has moved"? Or would only a retraction or qualification of one's own claims count?

Would publishing old arguments and hypothesises in a truly respectable journal count?

No to the first, since I've seen that for years, but I would accept the latter two. I'm being generous, I know.

And it goes without saying that paranoid excuses for why there's nothing new certainly do not count.

Tick tick tick tick tick... ;)
 
From ConspiracyCon 2011

Dr Steven Jones
'As the planet is experiencing more and more large-scale "tectonic" events, especially of late with devastation to both Haiti and Japan, he will also ask the audience to consider clear evidence for the existence and testing of earthquake-inducing devices. Finally, he will present his latest research into clean, "free" energy, which would permit formation of energy-independent homes and communities. '

Facepalm..

Wow, Jones' orbit is aligning with Judy Woods and her muse John Hutchison.

I guess with his new 'free energy' focus we can safely assume there will not be a follow-up paper to the 2009 'Active Thermitic Material' effort. I've suspected for some time that Dr Jones did further chip testing and discovered that it was not nanothermite, after all, so has decided to quietly move on.
What other reason could there be?
 
I guess with his new 'free energy' focus we can safely assume there will not be a follow-up paper to the 2009 'Active Thermitic Material' effort. I've suspected for some time that Dr Jones did further chip testing and discovered that it was not nanothermite, after all, so has decided to quietly move on.
What other reason could there be?

It does make you wonder.

After all, if "Free Energy" is a reality, then you could exert limitless power with an arbitrarily small device. Perfect for destroying the World Trade Center. Much more plausible than those pesky, difficult-to-use thermites. :boggled:

Note, I said "if". ;)

ETA: Interestingly, this is the tack now being taken by Judy Wood... Maybe a "Scholars" reunion is in the making? (And no, that's not "new" either, that's sheer comedy.)
 
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... this little circle jerk of a subforum ... Don't want the little inquisitors start calling employers of new voices and the like. So sorry, no input from me. Enjoy the funeral.
... it's something to avoid.
Nothing from the high road of 911 truth. nothing going on,
... taking the high road (avoiding juvenile mockery) ...
and,
... this little circle jerk of a subforum ... ...
nothing going on,
... taking the high road (avoiding juvenile mockery) ...
Good.
Didn't you already try this with the irreducible delusion bit?
nothing going on,
A bunch of fanatic Inquisitors is hardly relevant. It's something to avoid.
nothing going on,

... it's something to avoid.
Enjoy the funeral, mkay? ;)
nothing going on,

Checked with 911 truth; nothing going on
 
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SLC saw a strong uptick in visitors since Sunday night, from an average of roughly 750 uniques per day to about 2500 uniques. Looking at the keywords used in searches, it appears that "Loose Change Debunked" is the leader. So somebody's pimping Dylan's magnum opus out there.

I don't expect the Truthers to come up with any new evidence and really there's no need to when they can recycle the same old horse manure. David Ray Griffin (apparently recovered from his stroke last summer) was on with Kevin Barrett the other day, and it was voice-morphed phone calls and the like.

I don't see Jones embarrassing himself; he's just embarrassing those who took him seriously as bringing some intellectual heft to the movement. Remember, this is the same Steven Jones who bought into the Burrows Cave hoax.

I have to agree with Brainster on this one. I think the clock ran out on them years ago; I'd say about 60 days after Sunstealer's dismantling of the Harrit/Jones paper, which is probably the last significant, "new evidence" to come out of the truth movement. With no follow up to this paper (going on 3 years now!) and no independent verification of the samples, we can declare that ruse well and truly done, with the TM following suit.

However, I disagree with any assessment that 9/11, like Kennedy and Mooners, would be limited to "ineducable, insular communities of die-hard believers". I would argue that Kennedy does not fall under that category. Through the 80's and into the 90's there were several documentaries, legitimate or otherwise, (not to mention Oliver Stone's JFK) that has left much of the American populace with the belief a conspiracy theory is an absolute given when it comes to The Kennedy Assassination. We have seen that Gage, Griffin, Jones and the like are quite adept at putting together slide shows and youtube videos which, to people who have not really looked at the facts, can be quite compelling. This is my fear; that there will be wide spread acceptance of a 9/11 Conspiracy Theory 15 to 20 years from now, when a new generation of people will not have the knowledge or the perspective to fight against a slickly edited show put on the television (or whatever medium people from the future will be using!). Nothing proven. But a wide spread perception it is, and, at least in this age, perception is reality.

So when asked "why am I on here", this is the reason I give; it's not to convince anyone I am arguing with. They are un-convinceable! It's to not let a small minority have the opportunity to re-write history.
 
From ConspiracyCon 2011

Dr Steven Jones
'As the planet is experiencing more and more large-scale "tectonic" events, especially of late with devastation to both Haiti and Japan, he will also ask the audience to consider clear evidence for the existence and testing of earthquake-inducing devices. Finally, he will present his latest research into clean, "free" energy, which would permit formation of energy-independent homes and communities. '

Facepalm..

Wow, Jones' orbit is aligning with Judy Woods and her muse John Hutchison.

I guess with his new 'free energy' focus we can safely assume there will not be a follow-up paper to the 2009 'Active Thermitic Material' effort. I've suspected for some time that Dr Jones did further chip testing and discovered that it was not nanothermite, after all, so has decided to quietly move on.
What other reason could there be?

I would say it's more diversification!

I don't say that facetiously (well, ok, maybe a little!). I would say Jones is seeing the the Gravy Train of past years drying up as the truth movement becomes more and more only unemployed 20 somethings. For God's sakes, even Charlie Sheen has abandoned them!

So Jones has to expand his [cess] pool of whack jobs in order to pay the bills! You know; as a business decision, I can respect him for that!

And that alone!
 

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