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Tags alex jones , osama bin laden , Steve Pieczenik

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Old 9th May 2011, 06:04 AM   #1
CompusMentus
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"Dr" Steve Pieczenik

I don't post many new threads myself but I found this subject interesting enough to want to dig a little deeper. I also felt I didn't want to derail Mr Mackeys thread HERE any further that I already have with it. Please forgive the rather bulky nature of this post.

Anyway, here goes.....

Read HERE, a transcript of Steve Pieczenik being interviewed by Alex Jones way back in April 2002. In that interview Pieczenik claims that Osama Bin Laden died the year previously (2001) This interview was dredged up the other day on Infowars following the recent events in Pakistan.

Now certain posters have cited Pieczenik claims about OBL as new information to counter Ryan Mackeys reveille call in the thread linked above. That is not what I want to discuss here. What I am interested in is some of the other (seemingly fantastical) claims made by Pieczenik in this interview. Here's a little summary of just some of that:-

(From the transcript) he (claims he) is an infowarrior who coined the phrase "crisis manager", a Havard graduate with a Phd from MIT, a doctor of medicine, a colonel at the age of 32 (was offered 07 promotion later but wanted to go maverick) was sent down to Panama to inform Noriega that the game was up, taught psychological operations at Carlyle War College, mediated between parties during terrorist hostage situations, set up negotiations between Gorbachev and Reagan, worked for (and against) Arafat, Saddam Hussien and Bin Laden, travelled to Cambodia to stop Pol Pot, is on the killing list of the Red Brigade and a lot of other terrorist groups all over the world.....

Let's put it this way, it seems he is no shrinking violet.

All I am asking here is for verification of the claims that Pieczenik makes above. That is, verification from primary, independent sources (discounting conspiracy-related websites or Pieczenik's own output) I have spent a while searching for same and failed. I can only come to the same conclusion as this writer HERE

(my bolds)


Quote:
There are zero search-returns for "Pieczenik" in the National Archives or National Security Archives. I have increasing reason to disbelieve he was a "Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and/or Senior Policy Planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker" over the course of three presidential administrations, and have added an [non-primary source needed] to the Wiki entry after that specific claim. Most 1st-page Google returns for the specific employment phraseology (""Deputy Assistant Secretary of State") are in fact Pieczenik references on conspiracy blogs which reference the Wikipedia article as proof of his bona-fides

I'm calling BS on this one.

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Old 9th May 2011, 07:48 AM   #2
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And he wrote some horrid novels with Tom. I got one as a present. It stole my will to live. No way he made O-6 at 32. Impossible.
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Old 9th May 2011, 07:53 AM   #3
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You were told in the other thread that it's not about the interview from 2002. Just that Mackey claims it doesn't make it true. He was on Alex Jones' show for two long interviews last week and on other shows, too. Here's the first interview with Jones:

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Old 9th May 2011, 08:01 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You were told in the other thread that it's not about the interview from 2002. Just that Mackey claims it doesn't make it true. He was on Alex Jones' show for two long interviews last week and on other shows, too. Here's the first interview with Jones:
You didn't address the OP.
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Old 9th May 2011, 08:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You were told in the other thread that it's not about the interview from 2002. Just that Mackey claims it doesn't make it true. He was on Alex Jones' show for two long interviews last week and on other shows, too. Here's the first interview with Jones:

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Need some help with the OP?
Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
...
Now certain posters have cited Pieczenik claims about OBL as new information to counter Ryan Mackeys reveille call in the thread linked above. That is not what I want to discuss here. What I am interested in is some of the other (seemingly fantastical) claims made by Pieczenik in this interview. ...
If you don't understand the highlighted sentence, feel free to ask me for help. I could explain it auf deutsch, wenn's sein muss
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Old 9th May 2011, 08:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
And he wrote some horrid novels with Tom. I got one as a present. It stole my will to live. No way he made O-6 at 32. Impossible.
But... but... Medal of Honor recipient Joshua Chamberlain made Lt. Col. at the age of 33!


... Ok, fine, that was the Civil war... but still!
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Old 9th May 2011, 08:13 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You were told in the other thread that it's not about the interview from 2002. Just that Mackey claims it doesn't make it true. He was on Alex Jones' show for two long interviews last week and on other shows, too. Here's the first interview with Jones:

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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
You didn't address the OP.
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Need some help with the OP?

If you don't understand the highlighted sentence, feel free to ask me for help. I could explain it auf deutsch, wenn's sein muss
Furthermore, the point in Ryan's thread is regarding forward momentum. Reiterating a claim in 2011 that was first made in 2002 is not forward momentum; on the contrary, it's a perfect example of the ossification he was talking about.

------

ETA: Whoops. I shouldn't have made this post, given the request in the OP. My mistake. If it needs deletion or transfer to the other thread, I certainly won't object.
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Old 9th May 2011, 08:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
You didn't address the OP.

Neighter did you. I corrected misinformation he got from Mackey so we know what we'e talking about. Pieczenik didn't just "repeat" himself, you know.

So, stop whining and help the OP in his inquiry if you care.
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Old 9th May 2011, 08:20 AM   #9
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Anyway, to rerail this (sorry, CM!):

If he claims military service, then tips I've read from the Stolen Valor project run by BG Burkett can come into play. For example, his DD-241 discharge form should reveal what his actual ranks were, plus his military specialties. Providing that Pieczenik's willing to show it, of course.
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Old 9th May 2011, 09:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
He was on Alex Jones' show for two long interviews last week and on other shows, too.
And what did he say about 9/11 on that show that we haven't heard many times over?

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Old 9th May 2011, 09:28 AM   #11
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One Steve R. Pieczenik is listed on the membership list for the CFR:

http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/....html?letter=P

I can't comment about any other claims made at http://www.stevepieczenik.com/bio.htm.
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Old 9th May 2011, 09:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Grassy Knowlington View Post
One Steve R. Pieczenik is listed on the membership list for the CFR:

http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/....html?letter=P

I can't comment about any other claims made at http://www.stevepieczenik.com/bio.htm.
His bio says:
Quote:
He is currently an advisor to the Department of Defense.
I don't see how this could be true and he's spouting to nothing but CT handjobbers.

I call horsepoop.
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Old 9th May 2011, 09:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
And he wrote some horrid novels with Tom.
There is little evidence Clancy wrote anything of those novels. At best, Clancy's parents wrote the first two words of each of the titles.

I come from a family of Clancy fans, the "buy everything with his name on it" routine didn't survive the first op center book and we never even touched net force.
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Old 9th May 2011, 09:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I corrected misinformation he got from Mackey so we know what we'e talking about.

I need no prompting from you, I know exactly what my goal is here (as stated)

All that matters, in this thread, is that I read a link that originated elsewhere that made some claims. This leads us here and I would like to verify those claims if possible.

You seem to set some store against this guy. Would you like to try and verify any of his claims? For instance, pick just one of the following:-

A Havard graduate.....

Phd from MIT.....

Doctor of medicine.....

Or a colonel at the age of 32.....


Go on have a go I dares ya.


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Old 9th May 2011, 09:55 AM   #15
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BTW No problems about the the slight thread derails guys. As long as it doesn't get dragged off into the endless Building 7 or jammonius territories I'm nae bothered.

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Old 9th May 2011, 09:56 AM   #16
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The Washington Post, Feb 27, 1995
Quote:
He's Been There, Done That; Steve Pieczenik, Tom Clancy's Man on the Inside
[FINAL Edition]
Publication : The Washington Post (pre-1997 Fulltext)- Washington, D.C.
Author : Stephanie Mansfield
Date : Feb 27, 1995
Abstract (Document Summary)


But like Clancy's scholarly analyst Jack Ryan, the Chevy Chase psychiatrist and author has worked as an investment banker and been an adviser to several presidents. He is an expert on national security, international crisis management and hostage negotiation, and is the brains behind "Tom Clancy's `Op Center,' " the best-selling paperback (which neither man actually wrote) and much-hyped NBC miniseries, the second part of which airs tonight. There are plans for several more episodes, depending on the ratings, and more paperbacks.

A classical pianist who speaks five languages -- including Russian -- he wrote a full-length musical at the age of 8, and got his PhD in international relations from MIT during his spare time while studying at Harvard Medical School. [Steve] Pieczenik met Clancy years ago, and the two struck up a friendship. What the psychiatrist offers Clancy is invaluable inside knowledge and a sense of authenticity.
(My underlines to highlight his bio/qualifications)

The full article would cost US$ 3.95. Does anyone have a subscription?
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Old 9th May 2011, 09:57 AM   #17
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Don't know if this is anything significant, but I see that Ericsnowman has been editing the crap out of the wiki article:

Quote:
(cur | prev) 23:28, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (7,244 bytes) (Hostage negotations) (Tag: possibly non-minor edit)
(cur | prev) 23:08, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,659 bytes) (Added from professional life)
(cur | prev) 23:08, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,375 bytes) (Switched to writing ventures) (Tag: references removed)
(cur | prev) 23:07, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,660 bytes) (Switched to writing ventures) (Tag: possibly non-minor edit)
(cur | prev) 23:05, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (7,195 bytes) (Writing venture addition)
(cur | prev) 22:59, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,885 bytes) (moved to writing section)
(cur | prev) 22:58, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (7,132 bytes) (Added a book he cowrote)
(cur | prev) 22:49, 5 May 2011 Hsviking (talk | contribs) (6,936 bytes) (→Professional life: added citation)
(cur | prev) 22:41, 5 May 2011 Kgorman-ucb (talk | contribs) (6,787 bytes) (→Education: the timescale as it was listed didn't add up, so I've removed a specific time scale for his schooling for now)
(cur | prev) 22:40, 5 May 2011 Hsviking (talk | contribs) (6,789 bytes) (→Professional life: add published textbook and article in recognized medicine journal)
(cur | prev) 22:29, 5 May 2011 Kgorman-ucb (talk | contribs) m (6,156 bytes) (link indicates he's a current member)
(cur | prev) 22:27, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,163 bytes) (unnecessary space)
(cur | prev) 22:26, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,164 bytes) (Better CFR link)
(cur | prev) 22:18, 5 May 2011 Kgorman-ucb (talk | contribs) (6,145 bytes) (it is apparently peer reviewed, so I'm going to leave mention of it in, but I'm just putting it under the professional section as it is not academic journalism)
(cur | prev) 22:11, 5 May 2011 Kgorman-ucb (talk | contribs) (6,296 bytes) (under carter would've been under secretary vance, so I'm grouping the aldo stuff with the previous mention of his time under vance.)
(cur | prev) 22:06, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,303 bytes) (typo) (Tag: references removed)
(cur | prev) 22:05, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,438 bytes) (typo)
(cur | prev) 22:05, 5 May 2011 Ericsnowman (talk | contribs) m (6,436 bytes) (Ref name needed to be changed)
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
And he wrote some horrid novels with Tom. I got one as a present. It stole my will to live. No way he made O-6 at 32. Impossible.

I know next to nowt about millitary rankings/systems. Would a rank of Colonel at 32 years old be a first? Anyone have a link where I can check this out?



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Old 9th May 2011, 10:02 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Grassy Knowlington View Post
One Steve R. Pieczenik is listed on the membership list for the CFR:

http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/....html?letter=P

I can't comment about any other claims made at http://www.stevepieczenik.com/bio.htm.
Here some brief information about the number and structure of CFR members:
Quote:
Membership

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is first and foremost a membership organization. With more than 4,300 members, CFR's ranks include top government officials, renowned scholars, business leaders, acclaimed journalists, prominent attorneys, and a host of distinguished nonprofit professionals. ...
From http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/
This page also details the process of how one becomes a member. Basically you need to get recommended by several people (preferably members), and a panel decides on the recommendations.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:03 AM   #20
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Looks like we're not the only ones questioning how legit this guy is:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...enik-comments&
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The Washington Post, Feb 27, 1995

(My underlines to highlight his bio/qualifications)

The full article would cost US$ 3.95. Does anyone have a subscription?
Thanks O.

I would love to know the sources there of Stephanie Mansfield.


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Old 9th May 2011, 10:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
His bio says:

Quote:
He is currently an advisor to the Department of Defense.
I don't see how this could be true and he's spouting to nothing but CT handjobbers.

I call horsepoop.

In my experience being an advisor to a defence department can just mean 'they asked me about something and I got paid'.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
I need no prompting from you, I know exactly what my goal is here (as stated)

Your goal is to cast doubt on something you can't wrap your head around.

So far:

CFR member - check
PhD from MIT - check
Studied at Harvard - check
Worked with Clancy - check

And now? Enough? Will you switch to simply declaring him a kook™ next? Ah no, I see your last post. You cast doubt on the sources of the WP. They made it up because it can't be.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:15 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Your goal is to cast doubt on something you can't wrap your head around.

So far:

CFR member - check
PhD from MIT - check
Studied at Harvard - check
Worked with Clancy - check

And now? Enough? Will you switch to simply declaring him a kook™ next? Ah no, I see your last post. You cast doubt on the sources of the WP. They made it up because it can't be.
Where did you verify the PhD from MIT and studies at Harvard?
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
Looks like we're not the only ones questioning how legit this guy is:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...enik-comments&


WOW :-]

Seems he might also have claimed to have been offered a rear-admiralcy and also perhaps single-handedly ended the cold-war (or something like that)

This guy seems a bit of a polymath to say the least. We can now add linguist, classical pianist and child prodigy. The list goes on.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Where did you verify the PhD from MIT and studies at Harvard?
No doubt from the entertainment article from the Washington Post.

CE's not very big on original sources or raw video.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Where did you verify the PhD from MIT and studies at Harvard?

Oystein's WP article. He underlined it for us (thanks). That's good enough for me. I didn't listen to the Alex Jones interview but to another one. The man obviously knows what he's talking about. You know, it's an open secret for many years that Bin Laden was dead since late 2001. That's why they fail to deliver evidence in this bizarre way, not because he's still alive. I know it's hard to accept but this is the amount of lies we're told these days. You better start to come to grips with this, for the sake of your own sanity.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:26 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
Thanks O.

I would love to know the sources there of Stephanie Mansfield.


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I bought the article. Mansfield did an interview with him. Some excerps:
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
roly-poly, gold-braceleted and mustachioed Steve Pieczenik looks more like a ladies' shoe salesman than a Tom Clancy super-hero.
-> She apparently met him in person

Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
"I've done the op center," says Pie\czenik, referring to his days in the State Department's
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
...in 1979, he resigned as a deputy assistant secretary of state over the handling of the Iranian hostage crisis.
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
In 1992, Pieczenik told Newsday that in his professional opinion, President Bush was "clinically depressed." "Boy, did I get flak for that." He was brought up on an ethics charge before the American Psychiatric Association and reprimanded. "It was a kangaroo court," he says. "It's unconstitutional. I can say whatever I want." He subsequently quit the APA.
(Remember Pieczenik is a psychiatrist)

Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Dealing with Idi Amin and Manuel Noriega was one thing. The tyrants of Hollywood are a different story.
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
His father, a doctor, fled Poland before World War II. His mother, a Russian Jew, fled Europe after many of her family members were killed. They met in Cuba, where Pieczenik was born -- out of wedlock, he specifies -- in 1943. Seven years later, after living for a time in a France still ravaged by the war, the family was allowed to immigrate to America.
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
The family settled in Manhattan, and the young boy experienced a rich cultural life.
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
He is asked if the accomplishments -- the scholarships to college and med school; the graduate degrees; the high-profile government service; the dabbling in real estate and banking -- are all some form of overcompensation.

"Yes, in some ways, perhaps."
That's pretty much all the bio info here, except for the parts that dealt with Clancy and the book and film industries. No sources stated.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:28 AM   #29
CompusMentus
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Your goal is to cast doubt on something you can't wrap your head around.

So far:

CFR member - check
PhD from MIT - check
Studied at Harvard - check
Worked with Clancy - check

And now? Enough? Will you switch to simply declaring him a kook™ next? Ah no, I see your last post. You cast doubt on the sources of the WP. They made it up because it can't be.

I'll give you the CFR membership and the Clancy work but please supply primary, independent sources for the Havard and Phd claims.

TIA


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Old 9th May 2011, 10:33 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Oystein's WP article. He underlined it for us (thanks). That's good enough for me. I didn't listen to the Alex Jones interview but to another one. The man obviously knows what he's talking about. You know, it's an open secret for many years that Bin Laden was dead since late 2001. That's why they fail to deliver evidence in this bizarre way, not because he's still alive. I know it's hard to accept but this is the amount of lies we're told these days. You better start to come to grips with this, for the sake of your own sanity.


Bin Laden dead/not dead threads

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Old 9th May 2011, 10:34 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Oystein's WP article. He underlined it for us (thanks). That's good enough for me. .

If you don't mind I'll wait for a primary source.

I called a friend at the Boston Globe. He's going to check the alumni info for me (might take a couple days).
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by CompusMentus View Post
I'll give you the CFR membership and the Clancy work but please supply primary, independent sources for the Havard and Phd claims.

TIA


Compus
And for all his alleged high positions and ranks at State Department, crisis teams, Navy.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I bought the article. Mansfield did an interview with him. Some excerps:

That's pretty much all the bio info here, except for the parts that dealt with Clancy and the book and film industries. No sources stated.


Thanks Mr Oy! You're a star!

S'funny, but "ladies shoe salesman" is just how I imagined him :=]



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Old 9th May 2011, 10:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
If you don't mind I'll wait for a primary source.

I called a friend at the Boston Globe. He's going to check the alumni info for me (might take a couple days).

Excellent stuff DGM. Top hole old chap.


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Old 9th May 2011, 10:45 AM   #35
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Here is a Google search I did that got several hits from a Dr Steve R Pieczenik PhD '82 as having donated to MIT.
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Old 9th May 2011, 10:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
Don't know if this is anything significant, but I see that Ericsnowman has been editing the crap out of the wiki article:
ericsnow is a member here who often posts Alex Jones stuff in the conspiracy theories forum. He tends not to stick around for the discussion. I think he might be part of the show, or just a superfan of Alex Jones. I PM'd him this topic; perhaps he has the info.
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Old 9th May 2011, 11:11 AM   #37
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It's interesting that us "debunkers" are coming up with the research results, not "truthers".
This may be indicative of two things:
1. We debunkers know how to research things
2. We debunkers are not afraid of evidence in our disfavour
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Old 9th May 2011, 11:11 AM   #38
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The transcript in the OP has Alex mention "they had 58 minutes to shoot down the second plane (UA175)"...and then Steve lays down that he basically agrees with this atrocity:

Quote:
AJ: Then their names are kept out of the Customs computers. Then the watch list doesn?t get to the airlines. Fifty-eight minutes they had to shoot down the second plane that hit the World Trade Center and, as you said, seventy plus minutes to get that other plane. So, example after example, and then somebody with an incredible track record and serious resume like yourself comes out with an analysis that I don?t even come out with on the air, even though that?s what I suspected ? most Americans can?t grasp sleeper agents. If you start talking about this, because of the military precision of the Pentagon attack or even what we saw with the twin towers. I mean, again, elaborate on this for us. This is earth shattering.

SP: Well, it?s earth shattering for me, too. It was the kind of thing that I wouldn?t want to believe. I mean, you know it?s not like I just came out of the closet and I was a whistle blower. I want the audience to understand. I?m a patriot and I?ve always felt strongly that the reason that I served my country is because it?s an honor to serve, to serve the people. I don?t serve a institution or a government that got out of control. And by the way, I wrote a book about this years ago, called ?State of Emergency? where I said that we are going to have fights about the devolution of federal power, but basically it was over water rights in the Colorado River and occurred over Nevada and Arizona and that?s what?s happening ? it?s States vs. federal rights.
So this guy, who claims to have gobs of military and high-levels of understanding, can't even grasp basic data.

ATC didn't even notice a problem with UA175 until 08:47. That gives a whopping 16 minutes to react, scramble, intercept, decide, execute.

Hell, UA175 didn't even depart until 08:14. Even if ATC knew immediately after departure, that's 49 minutes. Where these jackrabbits got "58 minutes to shootdown" is lost on me.

That whole transcript is just baseless garbage. Not a single fact discussed from what I can see.
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Old 9th May 2011, 11:15 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
It's interesting that us "debunkers" are coming up with the research results, not "truthers".
This may be indicative of two things:
1. We debunkers know how to research things
2. We debunkers are not afraid of evidence in our disfavour
And even though this is a slight digression from the OP (sorry again, CM!), that's part of why it's best to argue claims directly above discussion of who said them. I'm no longer so hardcore about saying that discussion of the claimant is out-of-bounds, but ultimately, what matters is the claim, not the claimant.

What if it turns out that the guy really does have a PhD and did achieve rank really, really fast in the military? I doubt the latter and simply cannot speak towards the former, but like I've said before, I don't care if Einstein and Hawking says that the sun rises in the west; the claim's own merits are what's at question.
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Old 9th May 2011, 11:18 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
ericsnow is a member here who often posts Alex Jones stuff in the conspiracy theories politics and social issues & current events forum.
Eric Snow believes his BS is actually real. Even more so than other twoofers (whom by complying with the topical restrictions on JREF subforums implicitly concede their beliefs are garbage). Most of Eric Snows threads in CT/911CT arrive by the scenic route.
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