|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
9th May 2011, 06:04 AM | #1 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
"Dr" Steve Pieczenik
I don't post many new threads myself but I found this subject interesting enough to want to dig a little deeper. I also felt I didn't want to derail Mr Mackeys thread HERE any further that I already have with it. Please forgive the rather bulky nature of this post.
Anyway, here goes..... Read HERE, a transcript of Steve Pieczenik being interviewed by Alex Jones way back in April 2002. In that interview Pieczenik claims that Osama Bin Laden died the year previously (2001) This interview was dredged up the other day on Infowars following the recent events in Pakistan. Now certain posters have cited Pieczenik claims about OBL as new information to counter Ryan Mackeys reveille call in the thread linked above. That is not what I want to discuss here. What I am interested in is some of the other (seemingly fantastical) claims made by Pieczenik in this interview. Here's a little summary of just some of that:- (From the transcript) he (claims he) is an infowarrior who coined the phrase "crisis manager", a Havard graduate with a Phd from MIT, a doctor of medicine, a colonel at the age of 32 (was offered 07 promotion later but wanted to go maverick) was sent down to Panama to inform Noriega that the game was up, taught psychological operations at Carlyle War College, mediated between parties during terrorist hostage situations, set up negotiations between Gorbachev and Reagan, worked for (and against) Arafat, Saddam Hussien and Bin Laden, travelled to Cambodia to stop Pol Pot, is on the killing list of the Red Brigade and a lot of other terrorist groups all over the world..... Let's put it this way, it seems he is no shrinking violet. All I am asking here is for verification of the claims that Pieczenik makes above. That is, verification from primary, independent sources (discounting conspiracy-related websites or Pieczenik's own output) I have spent a while searching for same and failed. I can only come to the same conclusion as this writer HERE (my bolds)
Quote:
I'm calling BS on this one. Compus |
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 07:48 AM | #2 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,152
|
And he wrote some horrid novels with Tom. I got one as a present. It stole my will to live. No way he made O-6 at 32. Impossible.
|
__________________
I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago. -David Ray Griffin- |
|
9th May 2011, 07:53 AM | #3 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
You were told in the other thread that it's not about the interview from 2002. Just that Mackey claims it doesn't make it true. He was on Alex Jones' show for two long interviews last week and on other shows, too. Here's the first interview with Jones:
|
|||
9th May 2011, 08:01 AM | #4 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
|
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
9th May 2011, 08:04 AM | #5 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
|
|
9th May 2011, 08:11 AM | #6 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
|
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
9th May 2011, 08:13 AM | #7 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Furthermore, the point in Ryan's thread is regarding forward momentum. Reiterating a claim in 2011 that was first made in 2002 is not forward momentum; on the contrary, it's a perfect example of the ossification he was talking about.
------ ETA: Whoops. I shouldn't have made this post, given the request in the OP. My mistake. If it needs deletion or transfer to the other thread, I certainly won't object. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
9th May 2011, 08:19 AM | #8 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
|
9th May 2011, 08:20 AM | #9 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
Anyway, to rerail this (sorry, CM!):
If he claims military service, then tips I've read from the Stolen Valor project run by BG Burkett can come into play. For example, his DD-241 discharge form should reveal what his actual ranks were, plus his military specialties. Providing that Pieczenik's willing to show it, of course. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
9th May 2011, 09:28 AM | #10 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
|
|
__________________
There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
|
9th May 2011, 09:28 AM | #11 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 527
|
One Steve R. Pieczenik is listed on the membership list for the CFR:
http://www.cfr.org/about/membership/....html?letter=P I can't comment about any other claims made at http://www.stevepieczenik.com/bio.htm. |
9th May 2011, 09:43 AM | #12 |
No Ordinary Rabbit
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
|
|
__________________
-------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit! |
|
9th May 2011, 09:43 AM | #13 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,494
|
There is little evidence Clancy wrote anything of those novels. At best, Clancy's parents wrote the first two words of each of the titles.
I come from a family of Clancy fans, the "buy everything with his name on it" routine didn't survive the first op center book and we never even touched net force. |
9th May 2011, 09:49 AM | #14 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
I need no prompting from you, I know exactly what my goal is here (as stated) All that matters, in this thread, is that I read a link that originated elsewhere that made some claims. This leads us here and I would like to verify those claims if possible. You seem to set some store against this guy. Would you like to try and verify any of his claims? For instance, pick just one of the following:- A Havard graduate..... Phd from MIT..... Doctor of medicine..... Or a colonel at the age of 32..... Go on have a go I dares ya. Compus |
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 09:55 AM | #15 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
BTW No problems about the the slight thread derails guys. As long as it doesn't get dragged off into the endless Building 7 or jammonius territories I'm nae bothered.
Compus |
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 09:56 AM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
|
The Washington Post, Feb 27, 1995
Quote:
The full article would cost US$ 3.95. Does anyone have a subscription? |
9th May 2011, 09:57 AM | #17 |
No Ordinary Rabbit
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
|
Don't know if this is anything significant, but I see that Ericsnowman has been editing the crap out of the wiki article:
Quote:
|
__________________
-------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit! |
|
9th May 2011, 10:00 AM | #18 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:02 AM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
|
Here some brief information about the number and structure of CFR members:
Quote:
This page also details the process of how one becomes a member. Basically you need to get recommended by several people (preferably members), and a panel decides on the recommendations. |
9th May 2011, 10:03 AM | #20 |
No Ordinary Rabbit
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
|
Looks like we're not the only ones questioning how legit this guy is:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...enik-comments& |
__________________
-------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit! |
|
9th May 2011, 10:06 AM | #21 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:07 AM | #22 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 527
|
|
9th May 2011, 10:10 AM | #23 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
Your goal is to cast doubt on something you can't wrap your head around. So far: CFR member - check PhD from MIT - check Studied at Harvard - check Worked with Clancy - check And now? Enough? Will you switch to simply declaring him a kook™ next? Ah no, I see your last post. You cast doubt on the sources of the WP. They made it up because it can't be. |
9th May 2011, 10:15 AM | #24 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
|
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
9th May 2011, 10:19 AM | #25 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
WOW :-] Seems he might also have claimed to have been offered a rear-admiralcy and also perhaps single-handedly ended the cold-war (or something like that) This guy seems a bit of a polymath to say the least. We can now add linguist, classical pianist and child prodigy. The list goes on. |
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:24 AM | #26 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
|
|
9th May 2011, 10:25 AM | #27 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,632
|
Oystein's WP article. He underlined it for us (thanks). That's good enough for me. I didn't listen to the Alex Jones interview but to another one. The man obviously knows what he's talking about. You know, it's an open secret for many years that Bin Laden was dead since late 2001. That's why they fail to deliver evidence in this bizarre way, not because he's still alive. I know it's hard to accept but this is the amount of lies we're told these days. You better start to come to grips with this, for the sake of your own sanity. |
9th May 2011, 10:26 AM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
|
I bought the article. Mansfield did an interview with him. Some excerps:
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
Originally Posted by Stephanie Mansfield
|
9th May 2011, 10:28 AM | #29 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:33 AM | #30 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:34 AM | #31 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
|
|
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
|
9th May 2011, 10:34 AM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
|
|
9th May 2011, 10:37 AM | #33 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:44 AM | #34 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
9th May 2011, 10:57 AM | #36 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
|
9th May 2011, 11:11 AM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,667
|
It's interesting that us "debunkers" are coming up with the research results, not "truthers".
This may be indicative of two things: 1. We debunkers know how to research things 2. We debunkers are not afraid of evidence in our disfavour |
9th May 2011, 11:11 AM | #38 |
No Ordinary Rabbit
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
|
The transcript in the OP has Alex mention "they had 58 minutes to shoot down the second plane (UA175)"...and then Steve lays down that he basically agrees with this atrocity:
Quote:
ATC didn't even notice a problem with UA175 until 08:47. That gives a whopping 16 minutes to react, scramble, intercept, decide, execute. Hell, UA175 didn't even depart until 08:14. Even if ATC knew immediately after departure, that's 49 minutes. Where these jackrabbits got "58 minutes to shootdown" is lost on me. That whole transcript is just baseless garbage. Not a single fact discussed from what I can see. |
__________________
-------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit! |
|
9th May 2011, 11:15 AM | #39 |
0.25 short of being half-witted
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
|
And even though this is a slight digression from the OP (sorry again, CM!), that's part of why it's best to argue claims directly above discussion of who said them. I'm no longer so hardcore about saying that discussion of the claimant is out-of-bounds, but ultimately, what matters is the claim, not the claimant.
What if it turns out that the guy really does have a PhD and did achieve rank really, really fast in the military? I doubt the latter and simply cannot speak towards the former, but like I've said before, I don't care if Einstein and Hawking says that the sun rises in the west; the claim's own merits are what's at question. |
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once." |
|
9th May 2011, 11:18 AM | #40 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,494
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|