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Old 2nd August 2011, 09:56 AM   #1
tpeltonen
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Bemer-therapy

Hello everyone here at JREF. I couldn't find any discussion about this awesome gadget here, and now I'm in need of a little help because I can't seem to find any real information about the product online.

I noticed an ad of this device called BEMER (3000) in the window of a local gift shop. In the ad the device looked like some kind of massaging thing, but somehow it just looked a little suspicious so I decided to ask the shopkeeper about it. I wasn't surprised to learn that the shopkeeper was selling the device, having a whole separate space in her small shop with the device on a chair, some pamphlets and a wall covered with all kinds of things BEMER can heal - written in cat sized letters.

The Bemer is some kind of a mattress attached to an electronic device that looked like a digital alarm clock. It's supposed to heal everything from a headache to your cat's depression (Not kidding) using a weak magnetic field, so it really is just a magnet therapy device. The lady was working alone and didn't have time to demonstrate how the device works, so we only had a brief talk, but she did promise to email me some of the research proving the effectiveness of the device.
She did email me, but only with a "Summary of Publications", list of these supposed studies and and articles about Bemer, with summaries saying that it works for everything. There were no details about the studies, just the names of the researches, the name of the study, where it was published and when, and a short summary. The document was subtitled "Compendium of the important scientific publications above Bemer systems as well as relevant scientific data and books to validate clinical assessment". Nice.
I can't attach the pdf because it exceeds the size limit, but I think the list is basically the same as the one on bemeramerica.com (I'm new on the forum so I can't post links yet, but it's easy to find by just googling "bemer" + "research")

Currently I'm waiting for a reply from Bemer Group. It says in their website that: "On request, we will be happy to send you copies of the studies of the Institute for Microcirculation in Berlin and the Helios Clinic Buch, a teaching hospital of the Charité", so I requested them.

While I'm waiting for a reply, I'd like to know if anyone's ever heard of this device or looked in to it. It's originally from Germany as far as I know but looks like it's now starting to spread here in Finland. The shopkeeper invited me to a two hour closed presentation event of the device but I feel like I'd be walking in to a bear cave as I don't have enough expertice about human biology to properly argue their claims and I don't want to spend two hours shouting "Show me the evidence!".

This is my first post on the forum so any feedback about this post is welcome. And yes, I'm Finnish so my english might need a little improvement but I hope the message came across
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Old 2nd August 2011, 10:12 AM   #2
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Here's what it costs: BEMER Rental Agreement
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Old 2nd August 2011, 10:17 AM   #3
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Here's the list of studies. Someone with good journal access (eta and speaks german) might be kind enough to give you their opinion.

http://www.bemeramerica.com/sysa/results0.html

ETA - the UK page has links to some of the actual "papers":
http://www.bemer3000uk.com/joupapers_generalres.html

EG here's one of them: http://www.bemer3000uk.com/dls/5.pdf which seems to have been published by the "Academy for Bioenergetics" and isn't a research study at all...

Last edited by Professor Yaffle; 2nd August 2011 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 10:20 AM   #4
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Near the bottom of that PDF (ETA: the one GeeMack linked), in point 18 of their disclaimer. Parenthesis mine.
Originally Posted by BEMER USA
There are no health benefit claims being made concerning BUS(BEMER USA) products. Statements made have not been evaluated by the FDA or other governmental agencies and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any medical conditions or diseases.
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Old 2nd August 2011, 03:30 PM   #5
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It sounds like another MLM scam scheme to me.
Trying to get you to a two hour closed presentation sounds like someone would try to sign you up to rob sell/hire them your family and friends.
The T&C's certainly talk a lot about BC's (Business Partners).
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Old 8th August 2011, 10:04 AM   #6
tpeltonen
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Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
It sounds like another MLM scam scheme to me.
Trying to get you to a two hour closed presentation sounds like someone would try to sign you up to rob sell/hire them your family and friends.
The T&C's certainly talk a lot about BC's (Business Partners).


That would be an opportunity to get some real information about their scam business model.

Anyway, I finally received email from one of their representatives concerning my request for studies regarding the health claims they make. They had redirected my request to a Finnish representastive with a cool "Bemer Finland Medical Advisor" title. She didn't send me any of the studies. Instead, she asked me what studies I want, though I had clealry stated that I'm happy with ANY study. So I went ahead and listed all of the medical claims on the Finnish website and asked for a study that prooves even one of the claims.
She too invited me to their event on the 17th this month, also providing me with a number to call to have all my questons answered.
That's the number I'll call after receiving the studies.
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Old 9th August 2011, 05:41 AM   #7
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From the bemeramerica.com site:

Quote:
BEMER 3000 ::World Renowned Electromagnetic field application - scientifically researched and proven a thousand times over

Bio-Electro-Magnetic-Energy-Regulation - BEMER for short - is the leading-edge solution for maintaining good health on the basis of pulsed magnetic fields.

And here's what you see when you click on the disclaimer:

Quote:
Disclaimer

BEMER products are wellness and fitness systems.

All information presented by BEMER is intended to be used for educational and/or informational purposes only. BEMER products are in no way a substitute for professional medical care. There are no health benefit claims being made for BEMER products.

Statements made have not been evaluated by the FDA or other government agencies and are not intended to diagnose, treat cure or prevent any medical conditions or diseases.

The word therapy used herein is not used to refer to any medical therapy but to general non medical therapy, as an example, aroma therapy or exercise therapy.

Do not use the information for diagnosing or treating any health problems or diseases. Please consult with your own physician or healthcare practitioner if you have medical concerns.

So, it's advertised function is to "maintain good health" but "there are no health benefit claims being made".

That sounds like something well worth investing $3,690 on.

I find it hard to reconcile the claims of...
Quote:
BEMER application treats more than simply the symptoms, i.e. "the tip of the iceberg." It tackles the root cause and supports the body's natural self-regulatory mechanisms for maintaining health. By improving the supply of energy to the cells, electromagnetic field application via BEMER 3000 protects against the damaging effects of the environment and at the same time boosts the body's natural defense mechanisms.
With the disclaimer...
Quote:
There are no health benefit claims being made

How on earth is "supports the body's natural self-regulatory mechanisms for maintaining health" not a health benefit claim?

More from the site:
Quote:
Every disease starts with an energy deficiency (ATP) in the cell. We live everyday under the influence of the earths natural electro-magnetic field. This geomagnetic field shields us from dangerous gamma rays from the universe and at the same time forms a vital basis of stimulation for important metabolic processes in every cell in our body.

Our modern social environment and the increase of electro smog weaken the positive influence of the natural electromagnetic field of the earth. Stress and environmental poisons overload the body. Many metabolic and self-regulatory mechanisms become unbalanced. This weakens us and allows us to become more susceptible to illness, as evidenced by the alarming increase in chronic and auto-immune conditions suggests.

Clinical trials in Europe have shown that the application of the BEMER signal supports self-regulatory mechanisms and thereby counteracts the disturbances of everyday modern life. Only the patented BEMER 3000 products guarantee the broadband activation of these systems by energizing every cell in our bodies with the special, patented signals of Prof. Dr. Wolf A. Kafka, and Prof. Dr. R. Klopp.

Reading further, it supposedly works by increasing micro-circulation. But if that's all you want, why not just take Gingko Biloba? It's a hell of a lot cheaper and has been demonstrated to work.

They also state:
Quote:
In particular the results relating to improvement in the body's microcirculation represent a milestone on the way towards explaining the special efficacy of BEMER electromagnetic field application. On request, we will be happy to send you copies of the studies of the Institute for Microcirculation in Berlin and the Helios Clinic Buch, a teaching hospital of the Charité.
Why only on request? Why not simply make the PDF files of these studies publicly available for direct download. It's almost as if they don't want people reading them.
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Old 9th August 2011, 06:54 PM   #8
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I once bought a 10 year old 1000cc Paris-Dakar boxer for around $3500 and loved it. I'd have to say that Beemer therapy worked for me.

/what?
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Old 10th August 2011, 04:04 PM   #9
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I thought this was going to be a thread about buying BMWs.

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Old 19th June 2012, 03:28 AM   #10
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*Archeology Bump*

It appears Bemer is going stronger with each year. Now they have a co-operation deal with the Finnish Olympics team. It was announced yesterday. That's right, Finnish athletes will be boosting themselves with magnetic field therapy for the London Olympics.
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Old 19th June 2012, 04:11 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos View Post
I thought this was going to be a thread about buying BMWs.

~~ Paul
I agree. This is a far better beemer therapy from Germany.

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Old 19th June 2012, 08:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos View Post
I thought this was going to be a thread about buying BMWs.

~~ Paul
Very likely the con artists businesspeople selling these things intend to buy BMW's with the proceeds. The name of the device may be a little inside joke.
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Old 19th June 2012, 09:56 AM   #13
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Probably. My old used 1500 Beemer cost $300, and another $200 to get road ready, so was cheaper than their Bemer..

Last edited by Jeff Corey; 19th June 2012 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 28th May 2015, 03:09 AM   #14
erwinvanlun
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Bemer-therapy

Hi there,
just to let you know that Bemer released a new website in several languages, also in English:
yourfuture.bemergroup.com/en

And launch new products to replace the Bemer 3000 sets already back in 2011.
yourfuture.bemergroup.com/en/products/pro-set

It is now a medical device, approved by FDA and European Union, allowed to be used in hospitals.

Hopefully this helps a bit..
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Old 28th May 2015, 04:32 AM   #15
marplots
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Originally Posted by erwinvanlun View Post
Hi there,
just to let you know that Bemer released a new website in several languages, also in English:
yourfuture.bemergroup.com/en

And launch new products to replace the Bemer 3000 sets already back in 2011.
yourfuture.bemergroup.com/en/products/pro-set

It is now a medical device, approved by FDA and European Union, allowed to be used in hospitals.

Hopefully this helps a bit..
Link: http://www.yourfuture.bemergroup.com...oducts/pro-set

Got any info on the highlighted? All I can find is that the company registered their name with the FDA. Couldn't find an approval.

Welcome to the forum. We are big on citations here.
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Old 29th May 2015, 08:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Welcome to the forum. We are big on citations here.


But we're not big on people advertising.
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Old 29th May 2015, 11:54 AM   #17
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Why sell it by multi-level marketing?

What approval from the 'European Union' does it have?
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Old 1st June 2015, 05:53 AM   #18
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Replies on Bemer questions

@Agatha,

Thanks for your questions.

The reason why Bemer is sold through MLM is for several reasons:
1. It concerns health. People tend to trust their doctor more then they trust their own feeling. Sometimes they need to decide something that is not recommend by their doctor nor in a simple 30 advertising spot. Health is something you'd like to be informed on personally. That's why someone needs to visit them at home.
2. 'Health Maintenance Systems' is a complete new category. Simply ask people what's important to them in their lifes and you'll always get the same list, no matter which country and which culture: on top is health, immediately followed by family, housing and freedom of movement. Ask where they spend their money on and they'll say they spend money on leisure with friends and family, on holidays, on cars, on homes; but not on health, the most important thing in their life. According to Bemers vision, the term 'health care' is something that should be similar to 'prevention of illnesses' and/or 'vitality optimalization'. But it is not. Whilst every doctor knows that micro-circulation is vital in a humans body, people are simply not used to spend money on technology like Bemer. That is why you cannot advertise on TV and put the sets in the Wall Mart. It won't work. I have a background in advertising and branding (even wrote a book about it), but I agree with Bemer that MLM is much better in this case.
3. Only certain segments of the market are willing to accept new technology. These can only be found by individuals in networks. Advertising would be incredibly ineffective. You'll need early adaptors, people who are aware that their bodies are flexible yet vulnerable, and people who can and are willing to investment in their healthy future.

The MLM strategy might change in the future. 1% of the population In Germany is using Bemer every day, maintaining their health (whilst also caring for their food, exercises, stress reduction etc). When this goes up, let's say to 5%, the strategy of Bemer might change in this country. I don't know about that.

@Marplats: thanks for pointing out that information about the FDA approval is not (yet?) public. I'll see what I can find for you! I'll come back to this shortly.
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Old 1st June 2015, 06:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by erwinvanlun View Post
@Marplats: thanks for pointing out that information about the FDA approval is not (yet?) public. I'll see what I can find for you! I'll come back to this shortly.
Thank you. While not a complete "win," we tend to go with sources we trust to validate claims. As you are aware, the pool of true claims is much, much smaller than the ocean of claims.
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Old 1st June 2015, 06:18 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by erwinvanlun View Post
@Agatha,

Thanks for your questions.

The reason why Bemer is sold through MLM is for several reasons:
1. It concerns health. People tend to trust their doctor more then they trust their own feeling. Sometimes they need to decide something that is not recommend by their doctor nor in a simple 30 advertising spot. Health is something you'd like to be informed on personally. That's why someone needs to visit them at home.
On the flip side if it was really active, it would be recommended by the various health service. Doing MLM bypass that as well as a lot of testing and certification. In fact most scam go the MLM route just because they know as long as nobody complaint they have a good chance to get away with it.

Quote:
2. 'Health Maintenance Systems' is a complete new category. Simply ask people what's important to them in their lifes and you'll always get the same list, no matter which country and which culture: on top is health, immediately followed by family, housing and freedom of movement. Ask where they spend their money on and they'll say they spend money on leisure with friends and family, on holidays, on cars, on homes; but not on health, the most important thing in their life. According to Bemers vision, the term 'health care' is something that should be similar to 'prevention of illnesses' and/or 'vitality optimalization'. But it is not. Whilst every doctor knows that micro-circulation is vital in a humans body, people are simply not used to spend money on technology like Bemer. That is why you cannot advertise on TV and put the sets in the Wall Mart. It won't work. I have a background in advertising and branding (even wrote a book about it), but I agree with Bemer that MLM is much better in this case.
3. Only certain segments of the market are willing to accept new technology. These can only be found by individuals in networks. Advertising would be incredibly ineffective. You'll need early adaptors, people who are aware that their bodies are flexible yet vulnerable, and people who can and are willing to investment in their healthy future.

The MLM strategy might change in the future. 1% of the population In Germany is using Bemer every day, maintaining their health (whilst also caring for their food, exercises, stress reduction etc). When this goes up, let's say to 5%, the strategy of Bemer might change in this country. I don't know about that.

@Marplats: thanks for pointing out that information about the FDA approval is not (yet?) public. I'll see what I can find for you! I'll come back to this shortly.
That is MLM newspeak BS to try to avoid the real problem : if it was working it would have an official recommendation and testing in hospitals. The real effect of MLM is bypassing testing.
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by erwinvanlun View Post
@Agatha,

Thanks for your questions.

The reason why Bemer is sold through MLM is for several reasons:
1. It concerns health. People tend to trust their doctor more then they trust their own feeling. Sometimes they need to decide something that is not recommend by their doctor nor in a simple 30 advertising spot. Health is something you'd like to be informed on personally. That's why someone needs to visit them at home.
2. 'Health Maintenance Systems' is a complete new category. Simply ask people what's important to them in their lifes and you'll always get the same list, no matter which country and which culture: on top is health, immediately followed by family, housing and freedom of movement. Ask where they spend their money on and they'll say they spend money on leisure with friends and family, on holidays, on cars, on homes; but not on health, the most important thing in their life. According to Bemers vision, the term 'health care' is something that should be similar to 'prevention of illnesses' and/or 'vitality optimalization'. But it is not. Whilst every doctor knows that micro-circulation is vital in a humans body, people are simply not used to spend money on technology like Bemer. That is why you cannot advertise on TV and put the sets in the Wall Mart. It won't work. I have a background in advertising and branding (even wrote a book about it), but I agree with Bemer that MLM is much better in this case.
3. Only certain segments of the market are willing to accept new technology. These can only be found by individuals in networks. Advertising would be incredibly ineffective. You'll need early adaptors, people who are aware that their bodies are flexible yet vulnerable, and people who can and are willing to investment in their healthy future.

The MLM strategy might change in the future. 1% of the population In Germany is using Bemer every day, maintaining their health (whilst also caring for their food, exercises, stress reduction etc). When this goes up, let's say to 5%, the strategy of Bemer might change in this country. I don't know about that.

@Marplats: thanks for pointing out that information about the FDA approval is not (yet?) public. I'll see what I can find for you! I'll come back to this shortly.
So, you are basically here to try to sell it to us!!!
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:07 AM   #22
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I'm ready to buy. How much?
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:12 AM   #23
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When something is "Approved by the FDA", it is important to determine what it is approved by the FDA "for".

I've seen items that have lots of weird health energy-based pseudo-claims, then get approved by the FDA for "heat treatment".

So lets see what FDA approval actually states.
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:16 AM   #24
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An excellent apology for MLM, but not really persuasive.

If this gadget works - that is, it has proven to be more effective than placebo for whatever it is that it's trying to do - then I'd expect health services of various countries to show an interest.

I don't seem to find the FDA approval you claimed, nor have you answered my question about the European Union approval.

I look forward to your next visit here with information about these approvals.
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:20 AM   #25
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=162141
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:45 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by erwinvanlun View Post
It is now a medical device, approved by FDA and European Union, allowed to be used in hospitals.

Hopefully this helps a bit..
Yes thanks, According to the website "BEMER is an officially authorised medical device in the EU (CE0483) of the class IIa (93/42/EEC)."

That directive is here http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:31993L0042

Annex IX 90% of the way down discusses classifications. Basically this is a safety directive looking at the intended use by the manufacturer. It is nothing to do with whether the device works. The higher ratings basically involve more sticking things in the body.

I think this is the key part for this machine

All active therapeutic devices intended to administer or exchange energy are in Class IIa unless their characteristics are such that they may administer or exchange energy to or from the human body in a potentially hazardous way, taking account of the nature, the density and site of application of the energy, in which case they are in Class IIb.

So basically it is designed to mess with energy but it is not hazardous. The exact same classification any non-harmful non-working device such as energy crystals, magnetic bracelets and good luck heather would get.


Edited to add. The website also says During the past 15 years, there have been 46 publications about BEMER therapy and four scientific studies listed in PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/).

Those pubmed hits appear to be
A history of the machine
an unblinded survey
Something in German
A randomised double blind trial that suggested further trials are necessary

Last edited by Lothian; 2nd June 2015 at 10:00 AM.
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