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Merged Money

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Gaetan

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Gaetan
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Feb 19, 2009
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Money

The difference between a judge and a wise man is that the wise man will counsel you and the judge will punish you. The difference is freedom and the abolition of slavery. I work graciously and I attend that my neighbor does the same for me. I cultivate potatoes, my neighbor cultivates oranges, does it graciously. The worker who builds my home goes to market place and takes potatoes and oranges. The education is free and not a matter of money, children will do their own part of work later and so on. There is no obligation but freedom. What think most of human is if there will be enough money for him and his family, they are slave purely materialist. Countries only think about their deficits, they are slave of evil, finance and money. They make budget and think about who will pay income tax and tax of all kind. They put borders between countries, arm to protect themselves, they are afraid of poor coming to establish in their country because they cost money. Money is the tool of evil and must be abolish.

Gaétan
 
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These are nice dreams, but I don't think much thought has been given to how such a world would actually work.
 
How does such a system deal with one rogue who tries to take so much that it leaves others without enough?
 
Almo said:
How does such a system deal with one rogue who tries to take so much that it leaves others without enough?
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I think that would be seen as some form of thievery. If someone's receiving more than it seems they should be, they would be audited, and any excesses would be put back into public ownership.

This ideal is a lot like my own.. I think.. and that's how it would work in mine.

But I'm a strong pessimist and I know it won't even be possible for a very long time.
 
Ehcks wrote

But I'm a strong pessimist and I know it won't even be possible for a very long time.
Click to expand...

Human lived without money for thousands of years.
 
Gaetan said:
Human lived without money for thousands of years.
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Yes, early humans, with extremely primitive societies. Please explain how a modern, complex society could operate without money.

As I said, these are nice thoughts, but nothing beyond that.
 
Nice sentiments. But this world can still work with money if the people with money were to think like your sentiment.

I was brought up with this saying "a spoon full of sugar is worth a pint of vinegar"

George Carlin said it best, "how can we be concerned about the environment when we haven't even learned to take care of one and other yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

The plastic is here our job is done, we can be phased out now lol:D
 
Gaetan said:
Ehcks wrote



Human lived without money for thousands of years.
Click to expand...

Humans also got skull ********** by wild animals for thousands of years. Just because it used to happen doesn't mean it's a good idea to go back.
 
Gaetan said:
Money

The difference between a judge and a wise man is that the wise man will counsel you and the judge will punish you. The difference is freedom and the abolition of slavery. I work graciously and I attend that my neighbor does the same for me. I cultivate potatoes, my neighbor cultivates oranges, does it graciously. The worker who builds my home goes to market place and takes potatoes and oranges. The education is free and not a matter of money, children will do their own part of work later and so on. There is no obligation but freedom. What think most of human is if there will be enough money for him and his family, they are slave purely materialist. Countries only think about their deficits, they are slave of evil, finance and money. They make budget and think about who will pay income tax and tax of all kind. They put borders between countries, arm to protect themselves, they are afraid of poor coming to establish in their country because they cost money. Money is the tool of evil and must be abolish.

Gaétan
Click to expand...

What if someone doesn't want to be free?
 
Money is simply the result of a belief in the principles of commerce which pre-date biblical times (thou shalt not covet/steal). In broad terms:
- What's yours is yours
- What's mine is mine
- If you want something of mine you have to offer something in exchange for it.
- I don't have to exchange anything I have no matter what is being offered.
- If you take something of mine I have the right to get it back by any means necessary.
- An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
 
You make potatoes, your neighbor makes oranges. You both do work and you exchange the fruits of your labors. As long as you want oranges and he wants potatoes, this works fine. Me? I fix computers. I want a pair of pants. Now, I could go find a pants merchant who happened to need a computer fixed, but that could be extremely time consuming. If only there were some way I could say to the pants merchant: "Good day, Mr. Trader in Fine Men's Lower Body Coverings. I have here proof that I have labored and created value to society, and I would like to exchange this token of that labor for a fine pair of your pants. You may then take this token and use it to acquire such items as you desire, even if nobody wants to trade for pants." Or I could offer to blow him, I guess. But I'd rather just use the money.
 
psionl0 said:
Money is simply the result of a belief in the principles of commerce which pre-date biblical times (thou shalt not covet/steal). In broad terms:
- What's yours is yours
- What's mine is mine
- If you want something of mine you have to offer something in exchange for it.
- I don't have to exchange anything I have no matter what is being offered.
- If you take something of mine I have the right to get it back by any means necessary.
- An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Click to expand...

You just quote the rules of Satan
 
Gaetan said:
You just quote the rules of Satan
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Correction: I quoted the rules of commerce. Handy rules to have in an evil world but not necessarily evil in themselves.

The rules of Satan (which many people subscribe to) are somewhat more severe:
What ever I get from you is a gift:
- Never to be repaid
- Never to be remembered
- Never to be mentioned
- It never happened.

What ever you get from me is a loan:
- To be repaid with interest every time I demand it
- And no matter how often you repay it
- And no matter how much interest you pay
- You will always be eternally indebted to me
- Because I was nice enough to let you borrow it in the first place.​
 
Gaetan said:
Money

The difference between a judge and a wise man is that the wise man will counsel you and the judge will punish you. The difference is freedom and the abolition of slavery. I work graciously and I attend that my neighbor does the same for me. I cultivate potatoes, my neighbor cultivates oranges, does it graciously. The worker who builds my home goes to market place and takes potatoes and oranges. The education is free and not a matter of money, children will do their own part of work later and so on. There is no obligation but freedom. What think most of human is if there will be enough money for him and his family, they are slave purely materialist. Countries only think about their deficits, they are slave of evil, finance and money. They make budget and think about who will pay income tax and tax of all kind. They put borders between countries, arm to protect themselves, they are afraid of poor coming to establish in their country because they cost money. Money is the tool of evil and must be abolish.

Gaétan
Click to expand...

What if I don't want potatoes or oranges but instead want a car or a 42" plasma TV?

Marquis de Carabas said:
You make potatoes, your neighbor makes oranges. You both do work and you exchange the fruits of your labors. As long as you want oranges and he wants potatoes, this works fine. Me? I fix computers. I want a pair of pants. Now, I could go find a pants merchant who happened to need a computer fixed, but that could be extremely time consuming. If only there were some way I could say to the pants merchant: "Good day, Mr. Trader in Fine Men's Lower Body Coverings. I have here proof that I have labored and created value to society, and I would like to exchange this token of that labor for a fine pair of your pants. You may then take this token and use it to acquire such items as you desire, even if nobody wants to trade for pants." Or I could offer to blow him, I guess. But I'd rather just use the money.
Click to expand...

Luckily, without money we'd never have got to the point where we were capable of organising ourselves to design and build computers in the first place let alone repair them. Instead you'd be blowing people for oranges and potatoes!
 
psionl0 said:
Don't forget the Ronald Reagan version of The Little Red Hen story.
Click to expand...

I briefly pictured CEOs working assembly lines before being mugged by taxmen, then giggled and closed the link. None of these little stories show enough of the arguement, but I like the Robert Tressell one because it makes what I consider an important point about hereditary land ownership leading to an unfair market.
 
Gaetan said:
Money

The difference between a judge and a wise man is that the wise man will counsel you and the judge will punish you. The difference is freedom and the abolition of slavery. I work graciously and I attend that my neighbor does the same for me. I cultivate potatoes, my neighbor cultivates oranges, does it graciously. The worker who builds my home goes to market place and takes potatoes and oranges. The education is free and not a matter of money, children will do their own part of work later and so on. There is no obligation but freedom. What think most of human is if there will be enough money for him and his family, they are slave purely materialist. Countries only think about their deficits, they are slave of evil, finance and money. They make budget and think about who will pay income tax and tax of all kind. They put borders between countries, arm to protect themselves, they are afraid of poor coming to establish in their country because they cost money. Money is the tool of evil and must be abolish.

Gaétan
Click to expand...

I agree. Give it to me and I promise to destroy it!
 
Gaetan is proving to be one of the more entertaining crackpots on JREF. He keeps coming up with new stuff, unlike a lot of the crackpots who just recycle the same stuff over and over agian.


Anyway the thread title brought the song "Money Makes the World Go Round" from "Cabaret" to mind......
 
Gaetan said:
Money is the tool of evil and must be abolish.
Click to expand...


Do you know of any society in history larger than about a hundred people that didn't use money? Do you know of any way to apportion scarce resources without something that functions as money?
 
Gaetan said:
Money is the tool of evil and must be abolish.
Click to expand...

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another—their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."
 
Ziggurat said:
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another—their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."
Click to expand...

That is one of the few passages in "Atlas Shurgged" I actually agree with.
 
dudalb said:
That is one of the few passages in "Atlas Shurgged" I actually agree with.
Click to expand...

I think it's the only one I've ever quoted. In fact, I never even read the book (though I've read the diatribe that's taken from), and don't really intend to. I did read "The Fountainhead", which was interesting but wasn't what I would call good fiction.
 
You can do all the "evil" things that people do with money, just as well without money.

Usury? Let's say that my potatoes are ready to dick, but your oranges won't be ripe till next month, and you're getting hungry. So I'll give you some potatoes now, if you'll give me twice as many oranges as you normally would, when they're ripe.

Capitalism? Your crop failed and mine didn't, but I'll trade you enough food for a year, in exchange for your land. Next year, you can trade your labor on my field in exchange for enough food for the following year.

I can't think of anything one can do with money, that one can't also do without.
 
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