Near Death and Out of Body Experiences

zengirl

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Wikipedia------ A near-death experience (NDE) refers to personal experiences associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light. These phenomena are usually reported after an individual has been pronounced clinically dead or very close to death. --------According to a Gallup poll, approximately eight million Americans claim to have had a near-death experience.[13] Some commentators, such as Simpson,[14] claim that the number of near-death experiencers may be underestimated.------The earliest accounts of NDE can be traced to the Myth of Er, recorded in the 4th century BC by Plato's The Republic (10.614-10.621), wherein Plato describes a soldier telling of his near-death experiences.-
 
Wikipedia-----In all close to 3500 individual cases between 1975 and 2005 had been reviewed in one or another study. And all these studies were carried out by some 55 researchers or teams of researchers.[39] The medical community has been reluctant to address the phenomenon of NDEs, and grant money for research has been scarce. -------would anyone like to tell of their near death experience?
 
Celebrity NDEs---------XXXXXXX-----Goldie Hawn, while giving a speech at the Buell Theater in Denver, Colorado, reflected upon her near-death experience. When she was younger, and starting out as an actress, she and a group of friends were in a severe car crash together. While she was unconscious, she remembers looking over herself while the paramedics were trying to revive her. She also mentioned seeing a bright light and being told it was not her time soon before she awoke.-----------------------XXXXXXXXXX----------Peter Sellers was the comic genius of a generation of actors. He brought brilliant characterizations to numerous films, including "The Mouse That Roared" (1959), "Dr. Strangelove" (1964), "The Pink Panther" (1964), and "Being There" (1979).-----------------------Seated in a Hollywood mockup of a limousine's back seat while shooting his last great film, "Being There", he told Shirley MacLaine about his near-death experience, astonished that she did not consider him "bonkers." In 1964, during the first of a rapid series of eight heart attacks, when his heart stopped and he was clinically dead, he had an out-of-body experience and saw the bright, loving light:

"Well, I felt myself leave my body. I just floated out of my physical form and I saw them cart my body away to the hospital. I went with it ... I wasn't frightened or anything like that because I was fine; and it was my body that was in trouble." (MacLaine,172)

The doctor saw that he was dead and massaged his heart vigorously, Meanwhile:

"I looked around myself and I saw an incredibly beautiful bright loving white light above me. I wanted to go to that white light more than anything. I've never wanted anything more. I know there was love, real love, on the other side of the light which was attracting me so much. It was kind and loving and I remember thinking 'That's God'". (MacLaine, 172)

Peter's out-of-body soul tried to elevate itself toward the light, but he fell short: "Then I saw a hand reach through the light. I tried to touch it, to grab onto it, to clasp it so it could sweep me up and pull me through it." (MacLaine,172) But just then his heart began beating again, and at that instant the hand's voice said: "It's not time. Go back and finish. It's not time." As the hand receded he felt himself floating back down to his body, waking up bitterly disappointed. (MacLaine,173)
 
I don't think this is the forum you are looking for. Copy-pasting from posts on wiredclub is hardly a useful exercise for anybody.

So far you have proven competency at cutting and pasting. Would you maybe like to stretch yourself a little into something more challenging?
 
We will never know if the reports of NDE's are right or wrong until we experience the death process for ourselves. Everyone is free to believe what they would like to believe. I take it that you believe that NDE's are real? Or are you trying to open up a discussion about that possibility? I'll assume you want discussion.

I consider myself an atheist of sorts in that I don't believe in any of the organized religions that currently exist here on earth. I do believe that we have something that exists after death, call it spirit for lack of a better term.I think we exist as avatars occupying individual bodies and experiencing individual lives but in reality we exist as a larger whole entity in whatever exists after here. Think of one being with billions of eyes looking through the lens of billions of single individuals living their experiences.

I have absolutely no evidence to support my belief. However, if I'm right, there is no way that many of the paranormal claims made today, and in the past, could exist in the way we have interpreted them historically through legends/myth/ religion or even in our personal experiences, which would include NDE's.
 
The "NDE" has been pretty thoroughly examined and found attributable to the activity of the brain as it undergoes progressive lack of oxygen and such.
Much the same experience is shared by by fighter pilots who "black out" during high-G turns.

The "experience" has been shown to be culturally influenced as well.

No one, to my knowledge has ever presented anything like even a model as to how consciousness could continue without the massive physical support of the brain. How something "non physical" (which is likely an oxymoron anyway....)could support perception, memory, and processing.
Believers make all sorts of airy-fairy references to "spiritual" realms and all, but provide no evidence for these things or again, even a model as to how such things could exist.
 
Interesting idea Jodie. I do believe nde's are real....they are similar to out of body experiences, but nde's seem to usually involve injury or being near death. I do believe in God, but religions are manmade and are flawed , used to control people.--------------------------Bikewer, no, nde's haven't been proven to be just a lack oxygen....they are far more powerful and transforming. The Monroe Institute has trained people in out of body travel for decades. Mr. Monroe has detailed the process and written about the experiences.
 
wiki---traits of nde-----A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light. Communication with the light.[25][26]
An intense feeling of unconditional love.[26]
Encountering "Beings of Light", "Beings dressed in white", or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.[23][26][27]
Receiving a life review.[23][25][26]
Receiving a "life preview" in the cases of George Ritchie and Betty Eadie, which Ring calls an NDE "Flash Forward".[28]
Receiving knowledge about one's life and the nature of the universe.[26]
A decision by oneself or others to return to one's body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.[23][26][27]
 
Basic Instinct star, Sharon Stone, has told how she had a white light experience during her brain scare. Stone says she almost died after internal bleeding caused by a tear in an artery at the base of her skull. Sharon was interviewed by Katie Couric about her journey into the afterlife.

“When it hit me I felt like I'd been shot in the head. That's the only way I can really describe it. It hit me so hard it knocked me over on the sofa. And Phil was out of town and I called him and said, "I think I had a stroke." But in all fairness, I'm a person who's always saying, "I think I've had a stroke, I think I've had a heart attack, I think I've had a brain hemorrhage ... I had a real journey with this that took me to places both here and beyond that affected me so profoundly that my life will never be the same ... I get to be not afraid of dying and I get to tell other people that it's a fabulous thing and that death is a gift. And not that you should kill yourself, but that when death comes to you, as it will, that it's a glorious and beautiful thing. This kind of giant vortex of white light was upon me and I kind of - poof! Sort of took off into this glorious, bright, bright, bright white light and I started to see and be met by some of my friends. But it was very fast - whoosh! Suddenly, I was back. I was in my body and I was in the room.”
 
zengirl said:
Interesting idea Jodie. I do believe nde's are real....they are similar to out of body experiences, but nde's seem to usually involve injury or being near death. I do believe in God, but religions are manmade and are flawed , used to control people.--------------------------Bikewer, no, nde's haven't been proven to be just a lack oxygen....they are far more powerful and transforming. The Monroe Institute has trained people in out of body travel for decades. Mr. Monroe has detailed the process and written about the experiences.
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Try using the QUOTE button when replying. It's makes it easier to read.
 
zengirl said:
Basic Instinct star, Sharon Stone, has told how she had a white light experience during her brain scare. Stone says she almost died after internal bleeding caused by a tear in an artery at the base of her skull. Sharon was interviewed by Katie Couric about her journey into the afterlife.

“When it hit me I felt like I'd been shot in the head. That's the only way I can really describe it. It hit me so hard it knocked me over on the sofa. And Phil was out of town and I called him and said, "I think I had a stroke." But in all fairness, I'm a person who's always saying, "I think I've had a stroke, I think I've had a heart attack, I think I've had a brain hemorrhage ... I had a real journey with this that took me to places both here and beyond that affected me so profoundly that my life will never be the same ... I get to be not afraid of dying and I get to tell other people that it's a fabulous thing and that death is a gift. And not that you should kill yourself, but that when death comes to you, as it will, that it's a glorious and beautiful thing. This kind of giant vortex of white light was upon me and I kind of - poof! Sort of took off into this glorious, bright, bright, bright white light and I started to see and be met by some of my friends. But it was very fast - whoosh! Suddenly, I was back. I was in my body and I was in the room.”
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That's nice that Sharon believes that but it is not proof of anything.
 
Robert Monroe talks about his 1st out of body experience-------http://youtu.be/wZZHXtzuJ9c
 
zengirl said:
Robert Monroe talks about his 1st out of body experience-------http://youtu.be/wZZHXtzuJ9c
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So what? People believe all kinds of crazy stuff. I'm sure I can find Youtube videos of people talking about their first alien abductions.
 
At or near death one may have a delusion or two. After death, there is nothing. This, surely, is the most parsimonious explanation. What evidence is there that there is anything else involved?
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
At or near death one may have a delusion or two. After death, there is nothing. This, surely, is the most parsimonious explanation. What evidence is there that there is anything else involved?
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----------How do you know after death there is nothing? There are people who travel out of body on a regular basis....my uncle, a doctor , is one of them....I have been out of body myself..
 
British actress Elizabeth Taylor spoke about her experience of having died on the operating table while undergoing surgery, and of passing through a tunnel towards a brilliant white light. Interviewed by Larry King on CNN's Larry King Live, the legendary Hollywood star related how she had died for five minutes on the operating table. Ms. Taylor said that while she was clinically dead, she had encountered the spirit of Michael Todd, one of her former husbands, whom she referred to as her great love. She had wanted to stay with Todd, she said, but he had told her that she had work and life ahead of her, and he "pushed me back to my life." Following her resuscitation, the eleven-person medical team - including doctors, nurses, etc. - witnessed Taylor's testimonial of this event.

"I was pronounced dead once and actually saw the light. I find it very hard to talk about, actually, because it sounds so corny. It happened in the late '50s, and I saw Mike (Todd, Taylor's third husband, who was killed in a plane crash in 1958). When I came to, there were about 11 people in the room. I'd been gone for about five minutes - they had given me up for dead and put my death notice on the wall. I shared this with the people that were in the room next to me. Then after that I told another group of friends, and I thought, "Wow, this sounds really screwy. I think I'd better keep quiet about this."
 
zengirl said:
----yes, and true... <uncorroborated-anecdotesnip>
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Saying these things over and over doesn't make them any more true.

ETA: I see you edited out the nonsense. I think you should continue this trend.
 
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Spindrift said:
So what? People believe all kinds of crazy stuff. I'm sure I can find Youtube videos of people talking about their first alien abductions.
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For any reasonable person, that comparison would be enough to show how crazy the claim is. For someone like zengirl, no comparison would be enough- nothing can be too crazy for someone who will believe anything at all.
 
Good Radio Lab episode on the history of so-called NDE type experiences in jet fighter pilots and the development of the centrifuge to study blackouts induced by high G forces . The brain becomes confused and creates a comprehensible dreamlike image which can cost a pilot his life.

 
zengirl said:
Interesting idea Jodie. I do believe nde's are real....they are similar to out of body experiences, but nde's seem to usually involve injury or being near death. I do believe in God, but religions are manmade and are flawed , used to control people.--------------------------Bikewer, no, nde's haven't been proven to be just a lack oxygen....they are far more powerful and transforming. The Monroe Institute has trained people in out of body travel for decades. Mr. Monroe has detailed the process and written about the experiences.
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I wonder who is the more gullible - the one who thinks he 'teaches' people to have OBEs or the people who believe they hav been taught? I picked up this link on another forum today which is much more to my liking and I hope you will give it serious consideration too. It is concerned with the inability to prove a negative.
 
zengirl said:
----------How do you know after death there is nothing? There are people who travel out of body on a regular basis....my uncle, a doctor , is one of them....I have been out of body myself..
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You think you have. Some people think they are Jesus Christ incarnate. What evidence do you have that you are not just deluded?
 
zengirl said:
British actress Elizabeth Taylor spoke about her experience of having died on the operating table while undergoing surgery, and of passing through a tunnel towards a brilliant white light. Interviewed by Larry King on CNN's Larry King Live, the legendary Hollywood star related how she had died for five minutes on the operating table. Ms. Taylor said that while she was clinically dead, she had encountered the spirit of Michael Todd, one of her former husbands, whom she referred to as her great love. She had wanted to stay with Todd, she said, but he had told her that she had work and life ahead of her, and he "pushed me back to my life." Following her resuscitation, the eleven-person medical team - including doctors, nurses, etc. - witnessed Taylor's testimonial of this event.

"I was pronounced dead once and actually saw the light. I find it very hard to talk about, actually, because it sounds so corny. It happened in the late '50s, and I saw Mike (Todd, Taylor's third husband, who was killed in a plane crash in 1958). When I came to, there were about 11 people in the room. I'd been gone for about five minutes - they had given me up for dead and put my death notice on the wall. I shared this with the people that were in the room next to me. Then after that I told another group of friends, and I thought, "Wow, this sounds really screwy. I think I'd better keep quiet about this."
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And how did Ms Taylor know when her delusions actually happened? Were they while she was "dead" or where they shortly before she recovered from the anesthetic?
 
zengirl said:
Wikipedia------ A near-death experience (NDE) refers to personal experiences associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light. These phenomena are usually reported after an individual has been pronounced clinically dead or very close to death. --------According to a Gallup poll, approximately eight million Americans claim to have had a near-death experience.[13] Some commentators, such as Simpson,[14] claim that the number of near-death experiencers may be underestimated.------The earliest accounts of NDE can be traced to the Myth of Er, recorded in the 4th century BC by Plato's The Republic (10.614-10.621), wherein Plato describes a soldier telling of his near-death experiences.-
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I am sure that people frequently imagine all sorts of things when they are about to die, however that does not mean that the people in question are having any sort of supernatural experience.

Especially, when one considers that people imagine all sorts fo things when they are asleep and that such conditions can be induced through drugs, a lack of oxygen, and so on.
 
zengirl said:
Interesting idea Jodie. I do believe nde's are real....they are similar to out of body experiences, but nde's seem to usually involve injury or being near death. I do believe in God, but religions are manmade and are flawed , used to control people.--------------------------Bikewer, no, nde's haven't been proven to be just a lack oxygen....they are far more powerful and transforming. The Monroe Institute has trained people in out of body travel for decades. Mr. Monroe has detailed the process and written about the experiences.
Click to expand...

IF you assign such meaning to your brains reaction to a lack of oxygen. As has been mentioned NDE's have a cultural bias which is evidence that the significance of the event is a construct of your mind and culture and nothing more.

I watched a powerful and transformative sunset yesterday but only because I attributed those qualities to it.

Why do you attribute so much authority to celebrity stories of NDE's? If you found out that the majority of celebrities did not believe in NDE's would it change your opinion? What about actual doctors and researchers? Shouldn't their work be of more value than ANY anecdote about NDE's?
 
People are more interested in celebrities than regular people....and I have nde experiences of doctors and others I will show. Children have had nde with details of their future and spouse which came true. ---------- Monroe (from the Monroe Institute) is a scientist with methodology his staff go through in the monitoring and instructions of those learning to travel out of body. They keep files on those volunteers' experiences and information they gathered in their experiences. ------ Ms. Taylor knew it happened during surgery which is common. --------And saying something happened is evidence and used as evidence in courts of law.....
 
zengirl said:
People are more interested in celebrities than regular people....and I have nde experiences of doctors and others I will show. Children have had nde with details of their future and spouse which came true. ---------- Monroe (from the Monroe Institute) is a scientist with methodology his staff go through in the monitoring and instructions of those learning to travel out of body. They keep files on those volunteers' experiences and information they gathered in their experiences. ------ Ms. Taylor knew it happened during surgery which is common. --------And saying something happened is evidence and used as evidence in courts of law.....
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Does Mr. Monroe use double blind studies? Having a methodology doesn't mean it's a good methodology.

Please give us the name of one person who had details of their future revealed.

Courts of law are not science. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
 
btw---------
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.---------
-------The only source of knowledge is experience.

Albert Einstein
 
zengirl said:
btw---------
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.---------
-------The only source of knowledge is experience.

Albert Einstein
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You couldn't have picked a better quote. There is no proof Albert Einstein ever said that.

ETA: In other words, don't believe everything you see or read.
 
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zengirl said:
People are more interested in celebrities than regular people....and I have nde experiences of doctors and others I will show. Children have had nde with details of their future and spouse which came true. ---------- Monroe (from the Monroe Institute) is a scientist with methodology his staff go through in the monitoring and instructions of those learning to travel out of body. They keep files on those volunteers' experiences and information they gathered in their experiences. ------ Ms. Taylor knew it happened during surgery which is common. --------And saying something happened is evidence and used as evidence in courts of law.....
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The forum's thread on the Monroe Institute:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24245

If you have something useful to add by all means bump it.
 
I had a heart arrhythmia that led to me being flat-lined for just about a minute. I saw and heard absolutely nothing. It wasn't dreamlike. It was just ... nothing.

Please add my anecdote to the pile and have it offset one pro-NDE anecdote. I would appreciate it if it could be Goldie Hawn's. Thank you.
 
Loss Leader said:
I had a heart arrhythmia that led to me being flat-lined for just about a minute. I saw and heard absolutely nothing. It wasn't dreamlike. It was just ... nothing.

Please add my anecdote to the pile and have it offset one pro-NDE anecdote. I would appreciate it if it could be Goldie Hawn's. Thank you.
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Likewise (though for different reasons), I've been flat-lined...nothing to report.
 
zengirl said:
there is no proof that you exist....and he did say it...
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Notice I didn't say he didn't say it. I said there's no proof he did. There's a very important difference there.

http://www.quoteyard.com/the-true-sign-of-intelligence-is-not-knowledge-but-imagination/

Note: This quote is often attributed to Albert Einstein in early 2000’s, (The earliest source found for this quote is “The gramophone: Volume 83, Issues 998-1000″ (2005) by Sir Compton Mackenzie and Christopher Stone; page: 87) but no authentic source is yet found for this attribution, while many similar quotes found in various 19th and 20th century books.
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zengirl said:
btw---------
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.---------
-------The only source of knowledge is experience.

Albert Einstein
Click to expand...

Here's the actual quote:

Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
 
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