Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VI

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NoahFence

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The thread was beginning to run slowly, so I have split to this part 6. As usual, the split point was arbitrary and members may freely quote from previous iterations of the thread.
Posted By: Agatha


sunmaster14 said:
This is a pretty dumb argument. Being misinterpreted has nothing to do with being a straight-shooter. Especially if it is willful misinterpretation. In any case, many of Trump's supporters don't care if he is a straight-shooter or not (I actually don't think he is). They just don't think it's disqualifying to say stupid things. Or at least not as disqualifying as actually doing stupid things while in government.
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Saying stupid things IS doing stupid things when you're the President.

FYI.
 
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sunmaster14 said:
This is a pretty dumb argument. Being misinterpreted has nothing to do with being a straight-shooter. Especially if it is willful misinterpretation. In any case, many of Trump's supporters don't care if he is a straight-shooter or not (I actually don't think he is). They just don't think it's disqualifying to say stupid things. Or at least not as disqualifying as actually doing stupid things while in government.
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Who's being willful in their interpretation/misinterpretation of what was said?
Why does it even need interpretation?
She said "So what? They're Muslim".
No additional interpretation needed.
 
NoahFence said:
Are we waiting for the page to flip to get away from that Central Park 5 gaffe of Trump's today?
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Just shows what kind of justice Americans who are not of White European descent can look forward to in an Trump administration.
After all, whether they are guilty of not is really irrevelant. We need to send them to prison to keep the ******* in line.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited for rule 10. If you must, you may use the form "n-word" but not a disguised form of the actual word.
 
Just about everybody except Trump admits the Central Park 5 got a raw deal:Coerced Confessions,and less then brilliant legal representation.
(Going after the victim who never identified the accused as those who attacked her and was a neutral, not a Hostile witness was a dumb move.)
 
Babbylonian said:
It is shocking to me that this kind of attack on lawyers continues to be made by anyone. How does anyone make it through even a single episode of a modern TV show about lawyers without seeing that defense attorneys are absolutely necessary. After all, one of the most common tropes is setting up a defendant who looks guilty but turns out to be innocent, then the actual guilty person is found.

In other words, people don't even have to keep track of reality to learn the lesson that everyone should have competent, vigorous representation in court.
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I read a discussion yesterday about the significance of the 6th amendment, and how it was among the least debated of the Bill of Rights. The importance of guaranteed representations of defendants was recognized long before the constitutional convention. Republicans, otoh, don't care. Strict constitutional constitutionalsts my ass
 
I'm not sure I understand what is so egregious about Trump saying that he thinks the CP5 are guilty. Yes, no DNA matching them was found on the victim. There's no doubt that someone else deposited his semen. But does this exonerate them? Isn't there still be some question of whether or not they participated as they all confessed to? They have admitted to being part of a roving gang of kids who were assaulting people. They confessed to, at the very least, holding her down while others raped her. It is possible for them to have participated while not depositing DNA. I don't think their innocence is as forgone a conclusion as many here seem to think it is. I am willing to be corrected.
 
NoahFence said:
Are we waiting for the page to flip to get away from that Central Park 5 gaffe of Trump's today?
Click to expand...

How is a "gaffe?" A gaffe is saying something by mistake. This was no mistake.

Yeah, it was a stupid thing to say, but that just reflects the fact the he believes something stupid. It's not a mistake when you say what you believe.
 
Good afternoon xjx388
xjx388 said:
I'm not sure I understand what is so egregious about Trump saying that he thinks the CP5 are guilty. Yes, no DNA matching them was found on the victim. There's no doubt that someone else deposited his semen. But does this exonerate them? Isn't there still be some question of whether or not they participated as they all confessed to? They have admitted to being part of a roving gang of kids who were assaulting people. They confessed to, at the very least, holding her down while others raped her. It is possible for them to have participated while not depositing DNA. I don't think their innocence is as forgone a conclusion as many here seem to think it is. I am willing to be corrected.
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I understand what you are saying. There is more than the absence of DNA that got them cleared. There was an actual confession from the actual perpetrator who's story matches the actual evidence they had.
 
pgwenthold said:
How is a "gaffe?" A gaffe is saying something by mistake. This was no mistake.

Yeah, it was a stupid thing to say, but that just reflects the fact the he believes something stupid. It's not a mistake when you say what you believe.
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By the time Clinton is done using it it'll be pretty clear it's a gaffe, no? I would at least hope she uses that. She can use it to build him up as the face of the enemy for the #BlackLivesMatter crowd. All she'd need to do is post some links to the newspaper archives and show them what he did.
 
A new Trump "bombshell", caught on tape. He had been married to Melania for four months. :thumbsup:

Trump said:
“I did try and **** her. She was married ... I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married ... You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful -- I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait ... And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy, you can do anything.
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CNN just played an audio tape of Trump talking with Billy Bush in which Trump talks about trying to kiss, grope and have sex with a married woman (Trump apparently was married to Melania at the time.) Trump talks about grabbing women's private parts, saying "When you're a star, you can do anything."

Dang! Ninjaed by Varwoche

ETA: Trump is trying to excuse this by saying that Bill Clinton has said much worse to him on the golf course.
 
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xjx388 said:
I'm not sure I understand what is so egregious about Trump saying that he thinks the CP5 are guilty. Yes, no DNA matching them was found on the victim. There's no doubt that someone else deposited his semen. But does this exonerate them? Isn't there still be some question of whether or not they participated as they all confessed to? They have admitted to being part of a roving gang of kids who were assaulting people. They confessed to, at the very least, holding her down while others raped her. It is possible for them to have participated while not depositing DNA. I don't think their innocence is as forgone a conclusion as many here seem to think it is. I am willing to be corrected.
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The confessions about the specific case seem to have been coerced by the police.You do know about forced confessions, don't you?
Last time I looked you had to be convicted for a specific crime, not just on the grounds you were "Probably " doing something wrong.

Here is the basic info about the case.I know that Wikipedia is not world class when it comes to accuracy, but this is a fairly objective review of the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case
 
NoahFence said:
By the time Clinton is done using it it'll be pretty clear it's a gaffe, no? I would at least hope she uses that. She can use it to build him up as the face of the enemy for the #BlackLivesMatter crowd. All she'd need to do is post some links to the newspaper archives and show them what he did.
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It's not a gaffe. It's just a stupid thing he believes. A gaffe implies that saying it was a mistake. Not at all. He actually believes it it to be right, not a mistake.

He shouldn'the say what he believes?
 
JPK said:
Good afternoon xjx388

I understand what you are saying. There is more than the absence of DNA that got them cleared. There was an actual confession from the actual perpetrator who's story matches the actual evidence they had.
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Yes, another guy confessed after becoming friends with one of the accused in prison. Said he did it all by himself. But there has been expert opinion stating that her wounds were inconsistent with a solo rape. It remains possible that he confessed (after the SOL had run out, mind you) in order to get his friend released.

I'm just saying that reasonable people can disagree on whether or not the Cp5 are actually guilty of anything and thus, Trump's statement isn't really all that crazy.
 
pgwenthold said:
It's not a gaffe. It's just a stupid thing he believes. A gaffe implies that saying it was a mistake. Not at all. He actually believes it it to be right, not a mistake.

He shouldn'the say what he believes?
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Hell no, not if he wants to be President. The dude is tapped. Best he can do at this point is keep his mouth shut.
 
dudalb said:
The confessions about the specific case seem to have been coerced by the police.You do know about forced confessions, don't you?
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"Seem to have," based on the CP5's characterization. But there's no real evidence of coercion as far as I've seen.
Last time I looked you had to be convicted for a specific crime, not just on the grounds you were "Probably " doing something wrong.
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Yes, this is true. There may not be enough evidence to convict them of anything as the case stands today. But we can certainly place them in the vicinity and the confessions still exist. It's interesting that none of them actually confessed to raping her, just holding her down. Coercion would need to proved by them.

My point is that it isn't unreasonable to suspect that they participated in the rape.

Here is the basic info about the case.I know that Wikipedia is not world class when it comes to accuracy, but this is a fairly objective review of the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case
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Yes. I read that along with news reports before I posted.
 
xjx388 said:
Yes, another guy confessed after becoming friends with one of the accused in prison. Said he did it all by himself. But there has been expert opinion stating that her wounds were inconsistent with a solo rape. It remains possible that he confessed (after the SOL had run out, mind you) in order to get his friend released.

I'm just saying that reasonable people can disagree on whether or not the Cp5 are actually guilty of anything and thus, Trump's statement isn't really all that crazy.
Click to expand...

Our nation seems to be on the edge of armed race riots breaking out already. Donald Trump has better things to be talking about, but he's more interested in wasting the media's time and energy with this nonsense, and he says the least thoughtful things possible pretty much every time he opens his mouth.

The problem is not that Trump has on opinion. The problem is he said it out loud during an election.
 
From the outside world looking in to the US unless there is a massive undetected seismic shift going on it looks like Trump will lose.

Mainly down to the electoral college it does not look like he will get the states with the highest number of EC votes.
 
xjx388 said:
Yes, another guy confessed after becoming friends with one of the accused in prison. Said he did it all by himself. But there has been expert opinion stating that her wounds were inconsistent with a solo rape. It remains possible that he confessed (after the SOL had run out, mind you) in order to get his friend released.

I'm just saying that reasonable people can disagree on whether or not the Cp5 are actually guilty of anything and thus, Trump's statement isn't really all that crazy.
Click to expand...

What about the DNA match?
 
Donald is getting some competition for the Tin Foil Voter:

http://www.jill2016.com/on_911

I was not going to vote for her...too far to the left for my taste....but I had some respect for her. Not any more.......
As far as conspiracy theories, she has gotten into the gutter with Donald.
 
Donald "Grab Her By the *****" Trump is now hoping against hope that Hurricane Matthew keeps him out of the news for a few more days.
 
I just turned on Fox News. They're talking with Juan Williams about his bus trip to the Republican Convention. Now they're talking about that guy who recently tried to climb Trump Tower with suction cups. They must be replaying a broadcast from a few months ago because they aren't going anywhere near Trump's comments right now.

Steve S
 
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NoahFence said:
I just saw the video with the remarks. That HAS to do it for him. It has to.
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Well, it won't affect the creeps that currently support him, and, to be fair, there are a good number of them. But those with any decency?

Come on, Mike Pence. How can you look at yourself in the mirror and say, "This is the guy I, as an uptight evangelical, want to be my president"?

If this doesn't make a major hit in his evangical support, the only demographic that he really has left, then that is a serious indictment of them.
 
Darat said:
What about the DNA match?
Click to expand...

The DNA was the confessor's. He did it. That does not mean that the others did not participate. They confessed to doing so.

Reasonable people can disagree.
 
xjx388 said:
I'm not sure I understand what is so egregious about Trump saying that he thinks the CP5 are guilty. Yes, no DNA matching them was found on the victim. There's no doubt that someone else deposited his semen. But does this exonerate them? Isn't there still be some question of whether or not they participated as they all confessed to? They have admitted to being part of a roving gang of kids who were assaulting people. They confessed to, at the very least, holding her down while others raped her. It is possible for them to have participated while not depositing DNA. I don't think their innocence is as forgone a conclusion as many here seem to think it is. I am willing to be corrected.
Click to expand...

Trump isn't some random guy in a bar or on a message board expressing his misinformed opinion. He's campaigning to be president.

Personally, I prefer my high-ranking government officials to not be dismissive of due process and other Constitutionally-protected rights. YMMV.
 
It's the "If you are a star you can do anything" remark that makes this ourageous.
Donald thinks the rules don't apply to him,and I am convinced that Donald will think the Constitutional limits on the powers of the President are just another bunch of rules that don't apply to him.
 
johnny karate said:
Trump isn't some random guy in a bar or on a message board expressing his misinformed opinion. He's campaigning to be president.

Personally, I prefer my high-ranking government officials to not be dismissive of due process and other Constitutionally-protected rights. YMMV.
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Trump he also took a full page ad in the New York Papers proclaiming the defendnets guilty before the trial even began and said that accused criminals have no civil rights.

I am a hard liner when it comes to violent crime,not exactly what you would call a bledding heart liberal,and I find Trump's ad to be outrageous. An agitator working up a lynch mob. Great guy to be the guardian of Constiutiional Rights.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37593392

Trump apologises over lewd comments

Republican candidate Donald Trump has responded to a 2005 video showing him making lewd comments about women.

In the video, posted by the Washington Post, Mr Trump is heard telling TV host Billy Bush "you can do anything" to women "when you're a star".
 
pgwenthold said:
Come on, Mike Pence. How can you look at yourself in the mirror and say, "This is the guy I, as an uptight evangelical, want to be my president"?

If this doesn't make a major hit in his evangical support, the only demographic that he really has left, then that is a serious indictment of them.
Click to expand...

They (and Pence) will say that this was a long time ago and that Donald is a different man now. Remember, they're all about forgiveness.

Steve S
 
The "Grab a a women by her p***** " tape is all over CNN. I wonder what Donald's many evangelical supporters think about this.
 
"We hold these truths to be self-evident"
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"

"Grab her by the pussy"?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37593392

Trump apologises over lewd comments

Republican candidate Donald Trump has responded to a 2005 video showing him making lewd comments about women.

In the video, posted by the Washington Post, Mr Trump is heard telling TV host Billy Bush "you can do anything" to women "when you're a star".
Click to expand...

Sorry BBC and probably every other outlet apologizing if anyone was offended is not the same thing as apologizing.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37593392

Trump apologises over lewd comments

Republican candidate Donald Trump has responded to a 2005 video showing him making lewd comments about women.

In the video, posted by the Washington Post, Mr Trump is heard telling TV host Billy Bush "you can do anything" to women "when you're a star".
Click to expand...

I love the way he references Bill Clinton in his response.
The bad thing for Trump is this tape cuts the ground out from under any attacks on Bill Clinton's bedroom misdeeds Donny was planning on making.
I have no doubt there will be accusations the timing of this release is deliberate. All I can so is if it is it was VERY well played.
 
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